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SRT Exhaust on a 2010 3.5L Charger??

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8.4K views 25 replies 7 participants last post by  Shots  
#1 ·
I have an opportunity to purchase an cat back SRT exhaust. My wife has a 3.5L Charger and has two exhaust cut outs in the the rear bumper cover with only one exhaust pipe. All I want to do is basically fill the other hole. Again this is my wife's car and not looking for performance or to spend a lot of money, it's more for cosmetics than anything and if she gets some nice sound, i'm sure she'll appreciate it. My questions are.....

What kind of cost am I looking at to get this installed at my local shop (ball park)?

I'm sure this has been done, pro's, con's?

Any sound clips?

TIA.
 
#2 · (Edited)
I got my exhaust done at a local shop for $500 with parts and labor. I'm sure just an install would be around $150 as they don't have to adjust the piping drastically, but location has a little to do with it also. So basically with a 3.5 exhaust, you have an inlet/outlet diameter of 2.25', with an SRT exhaust the inlet/outlet is 2.75'. This means that putting an srt exhaust on your vehicle would sacrifice a bit of performance and mileage, because you're losing back pressure essentially.

So performance and mileage suffering is the con, and the pro is the look basically.. Many people went the blastin bobs route, or picked up an r/t exhaust on here for cheap while keeping the spending low.. Hope this helps!
 
#7 · (Edited)
I got my exhaust done at a local shop for $500 with parts and labor. I'm sure just an install would be around $150 as they don't have to adjust the piping drastically, but location has a little to do with it also. So basically with a 3.5 exhaust, you have an inlet/outlet diameter of 2.25', with an SRT exhaust the inlet/outlet is 2.75'. This means that putting an srt exhaust on your vehicle would sacrifice a bit of performance and mileage, because you're losing back pressure essentially.

So performance and mileage suffering is the con, and the pro is the look basically.. Many people went the blastin bobs route, or picked up an r/t exhaust on here for cheap while keeping the spending low.. Hope this helps!
close... but not correct.

Its NOT because people lose backpressure....

its because you lose exhaust velocity which is important for the scavenging effect of the exhaust.

the whole point of aftermarket exhaust is to reduce backpressure and maintain or raise exhaust velocity. every car will have backpressure of some sort, unless there is some sort of vaccum on the exhaust.

to those who are new, this is how things work:

To produce the most amount of power, an exhaust should have the least amount of restriction to the exhaust flow. Restriction hampers the burnt exhaust gasses from exiting your engine, causing some charge dilution with the incoming fresh fuel air mixture. If all the exhaust gas cannot escape from you cylinders, it dilutes the flammable power producing intake mixture that is trying to come in. The diluted mixture does not burn as well as a pure mixture. This causes a loss of power. You don’t feel so energetic at a packed club with lots of cigarette smoke, sweaty bodies and hot stuffy air right? Neither does your motor. With greater restriction, backpressure is generated making the engine work harder to pump the exhaust out of the engine's cylinders. The harder it is to get the exhaust out; the power wasted to pump the stale exhaust gas out of a restrictive exhaust system could be used to turn the wheels instead. Turbocharged, suspercharged, Nitrous Equipped and engines with really big cams are all especially sensitive to backpressure.

An old hotrodders tall tale is that engines need some backpressure to work properly and make torque. Well that is not true. What engines need is the lowest low backpressure possible but with a high exhaust stream velocity. A fast moving but free flowing gas column in the exhaust helps create a rarefaction or a negative pressure wave behind the exhaust valve right as it opens. This vacuum helps scavenge the cylinder of exhaust gas faster and more thoroughly with less pumping loss-inducing work. A too big in diameter exhaust pipe has low backpressure but lower velocity. The low velocity reduces the effectiveness of this scavenging effect, which has the greatest impact on low-end torque. So remember fast = low backpressure + high velocity. Slow=low backpressure=too big of an exhaust pipe=low velocity. Low backpressure also helps a turbocharger work more effectively.


Low backpressure and high exhaust stream velocity can be achieved by running straight through free flowing mufflers and relatively small pipe diameters. The only exceptions to this are super or turbocharged motors, motors optimized for large amounts of nitrous oxide and highly modified naturally aspirated motors with huge cams. These types of engines vastly increase the exhaust gas volume and simply need larger pipes to get rid of it all or in the case of the high strung NA motor, are very sensitive to small amounts of backpressure.

Some stock mufflers and exhaust systems have up to 20 psi of choking, power robbing backpressure. In direct contrast, a well-designed high performance street exhaust system typically has about 2-6 psi of backpressure. For interesting comparison sake, an un-muffled straight pipe on a real racecar usually has 0-3 psi of backpressure.


It is best to avoid straight through mufflers that have a louvered core. Many old school glass packs suffer from these. Some spiffy polished stainless and big tip mufflers on the market also have these. The louvers generate quite a bit of backpressure because they stick into the exhaust stream and create considerable turbulence. Even though these mufflers are a straight through design, they can have more backpressure than a stock muffler. When buying a straight through muffler, look for one with a perforated core if you are interested in producing more power. A good properly sized, perforated-core, straight-through muffler will add only about 1-2 lbs of backpressure to your exhaust system. Mufflers like the Walker Ultra Flow, Thermal, Apexi, Borla, Edelbrock or Magnaflow are examples of good low backpressure mufflers with an absorption design. Many Pre-made exhausts like Apexi, Tanabe, Greddy, Borla, Maganaflow, Thermal or HKS also have mufflers of the free-flowing absorption design.
everytime i read someone saying "you lose power because you lost backpressure", i cringe the same amount as when people say, "my brake rotors warped" or "i put a chip in my car" (no you didnt, you used a handheld programmer to reprogram the computer. very few cars these days use ACTUAL CHIPS - where you remove a chip, and then replace it with an updated physical chip...moreso the OBD1 cars before OBD2 came in 1996) .....yet ANOTHER automotive myth, that people are so used to saying, hearing, and repeating...and ALL still have been proven to be untrue.:rolleyes2:

we either learn the correct stuff, or doomed to repeat the bad stuff.:beerchug:

buying an R/T exhaust????same boat...

Image


resonators from a R/T and a Daytona...

Image
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both open area style mufflers, allows the hot flowing exhaust to expand into an open area and cool off. this helps to reduce sound...crap for performance.

picture proof and facts cant be argued really.;) if you're doin it for looks, do whatever. if you want some performance and efficiency...do it the right way. most people here arent really serious about performance nor do they push their cars much. so many just opt for something cheap like the R/T exhaust. i personally didnt really see the point in taking off something restrictive from another car and putting it on my car. if the R/T's didnt have enough exhaust flow to keep the exhaust from cooling, then the v6's surely will not have enough, hence the exhaust will expand and cool, thus slow down in the open chambers such as the resonators and the "suitcase muffler"...and this is where the "restriction" comes from. slow moving gases.


also two pipes VS a y-pipe setup...not even gonna make a difference except with 2 pipes, you need two of everything (more cost) and on a v6 thats just extra weight really.
 
#3 ·
^^^^ Thanks for the response, and I checked on just sort of "y"ing off, but they wanted like $400 to do that, ridiculous.

I've seen the blastin bobs and other cat backs, but I don't want ANY drone, and I've heard of after market cat back with considerable drone.

So I'd still like to hear from someone that has done this. I know, or thing the R/T exhaust is better, but I haven't had any luck finding one.

Thanks again.
 
#4 ·
I paid $35 for a local shop to weld on some adapters to get my Daytona exhaust installed, but I did the rest of the work myself. Like removing the old exhaust, installing the new hangars, and even more or less installed the exhaust, then drove to the shop and had them weld on the adapter to the stock y-pipe so the stock clamps on the daytona exhasut worked like they were designed to. If all you care about it looks, the SRT exhaust will work, but as said it may hurt your performance a little bit. And it's not due to loss of back pressure, that's a myth. It's because you will lose scavanging from decreased velocity and turbulance inside the exhaust with it going from 2.25 to 2.75 ID tubing.
 
#5 ·
I've seen the back pressure argument so many times I actually thought that was the reason. The scavenging effect makes a lot of sense too, thanks for the clarification hskr.
 
#8 ·
Honestly.... if you want to by some mufflers like magnaflow, SLP or any other brand. Then all the shop has to do is put new piping in and install the mufflers and tips

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#10 ·
thanks for the clarification samoan
 
#11 ·
My plan is to buy Blasting Bobs tail pipes for the 5.7 car with the hanger kit and then buy two 2.25" full boar mufflers(the 2.5"s flow 92cfm more than magnaflows 2.5s) and 2.25 x-pipe then let the exhaust shop make the last couple of pieces.

Based on my research, this will give the best performance by maintaining proper sizing and filling in the hole in the rear bumper.
 
#12 ·
Yes, 2.25" is the correct size for the 3.5L displacement and HP (unmodified of course, as it could be changed with mods).

As for which exhaust. I'm with the others in that I recommend the RT exhaust. I took it a step further and modified it a bit, because just swapping the RT onto my 3.5L wasn't as good as I had hoped. Sure it looked good, which was my goal just like yours. However it sounded a bit ricey (it kinda had the ricer fart sound). So I took it off, and created my own X-pipe to adjust the flow down to the appropriate size pies. Problem solved. It sounds very clean now (no fart at all), and I regained the lost performance.

PS when people say you lose performance with the other stock systems, you'll mostly notice it at the pumps. The butt dyno noticed a minimal loss with the unmodified RT exhaust, but it's so minimal it could have just be in my head. Really the biggest difference I saw was the loss of a few MPG, and the fart. Modified I'm back to the "power" and efficiency of the stock SXT exhaust. My current set-up sounds better than stock, and much better than the unmodified RT system.

So to answer the thread. No I haven't done the SRT exhaust, but with it being larger than the RT exhaust (which I did do), I would advise against it. It will look fine, but you probably won't be happy with the sound or performance. There shouldn't be any drone, but it's not a clean sound either.

Here's a link to my "custom" exhaust. modified RT exhaust install
 
#14 · (Edited)
PS when people say you lose performance with the other stock systems, you'll mostly notice it at the pumps. The butt dyno noticed a minimal loss with the unmodified RT exhaust, but it's so minimal it could have just be in my head. Really the biggest difference I saw was the loss of a few MPG, and the fart. Modified I'm back to the "power" and efficiency of the stock SXT exhaust. My current set-up sounds better than stock, and much better than the unmodified RT system.
more than just at the pumps. if anyone actually pushes their car next to another stock car...

loss of MPG is a loss of power and efficiency. when we add parts that allow the engine to work more efficiently, it takes less power to be lost in the engine pumping and more to go to the wheels. thats the main reason why R/T exhaust is basically for looks only, sound is questionable.

the whole point of adding anything aftermarket engine-wise (atleast for me) is to IMPROVE or ADD power/mpgs... by the time most buy a used exhaust, then hack it up, then hack it up again to fix the first hack job, you've paid the price for getting something made for your car in the first place. do it right, do it once, more money to other mods.


everytime i see a post about R/T exhaust its like watching the baby from the credit card commercials...:)



except with us it would be...

Host: Everyone wants better power and efficiency......WELL ALMOST everyone...

Host: "Everyone wants more power and efficiency, dont you want better performance???"

Baby: "Nnnnnno!"

Host: "but its more power to the wheels..."

Baby: (chucks a 4 way tire iron at host)




nothing against anyone, but A LOT of people keep asking for boost, for turbos, more power lately.....but if you think about it, theres a SOLID reason why there arent alot of v6 aftermarket parts when companies see how many would rather make their cars slower, all while saying they want more performance...
Image
 
#13 ·
I'm toying with the idea of putting on SLP mufflers in place of the magnaflows.... any input

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#16 · (Edited)
honestly what would doing that prove??

a supercharged car is ONLY doing 9.753 in the 1/8 mile as posted. so are you telling me, that your car is NEARLY JUST AS powerful as a boosted car with over 300+ RWHP and 270+ TQ???? just a 1/10th slower?

for that, you would need two cars, same track, same night, and also same tune. you said a diablo tune. 89, 91, 93...???? cause if someone ran faster than a 9.85, then someone gonna argue weather conditions, or track conditions, altitude, or something. theres always gonna be "X variable"...and then someone not knowing how to brake launch a car, or a car with no traction, or too much traction..


like said, most have already said, their MPG's went down. not 1 or 2....MOST. and even though its more weight you're luggin around, thats not the culprit.

most people here DO NOT drive their cars 7/10's or even near that. so if you MPGs are going down, and you're just regular driving... the ones that do are (in drag racing terms) running 9's thru 11's... if you're not doing autox or road course...then you're prob not even nearing 7/10's


one does NOT need a bag of hammers to nail this reason.;)

you only need simple facts ;)

you can honestly just look at the insides of the R/T exhaust as i've already posted... exhaust gasses that are allowed to expand into open areas, cool down, and lose their energy pulses. this is fact. i cant alter it, nor can anyone else, yourself included. theres ALSO the "elephant in the room" obvious fact that even the v8 guys are making gains from removing R/T exhausts and adding aftermarket ones which are more efficient. remember, exhaust gains arent just from decreasing backpressure. its keeping up the velocity. so how do you keep up the velocity in a setup thats more hollow than the stock counterpart?

stock exhausts are made NOT for performance, but for cheap (alot of open space) and mass produced ways to keep the sound down as well as costs... we should ALL know this by now. its not anything magical. its just fact of mass produced cars.

take a more efficient stock single exhaust (yes, yet another fact...single exhausts are actually more efficient majority of the time) than a dual exhaust that allows the gasses to cool and slow down more than it would with a single.... and your performance goes down.

put big wheels on a car that weigh more and have far more rotating weight, your performance goes down.

sometimes you cant argue the obvious:D
 
#17 ·
So from what i gather.... your saying there's a good benefit of having a single exhaust vs having duals right!!

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#23 ·
as said, yes there is...

in many single exhaust setups, a single will produce more power overall due to keeping the exhaust flow velocity high. it also comes with the least amount of weight between all setups so that also aids in performance. i know 20-40lbs isnt much to some, but for those who are trying to keep weight down, its a good amount to NOT have on the car. you'll see some of the import crowds running titanium exhausts... some do it for color, or to say "look at me, look at what i bought"... others will use it to keep the car as light as can be since Ti is 1/3 lighter than steel. what would you rather have hanging from your car...60lbs or 40lbs? ;)

if you look at many exhausts, they are called "dual exit" exhausts.

which is what magnaflow, flowmaster, and a few other companies run on our v6's as well on many cars... even the 350 and 370Z's i believe...(have to double check again...yes they do LINK)...blastin bobs also has a dual exit conversion...

its a single pipe down the majority of the car, then a Y pipe at the end to dual exits.



a single will be the lightest as you dont need the extra weight of two mufflers or two resonators.

a dual exit saves the weight in the pipes and maybe a muffler, but give the look of two tips and or mufflers in the back. *****p.s. a resonator is nothing more than a smaller muffler*****

dual exhaust isnt really needed, but some would prefer to say "i have dual exhaust" to their friends and profiles mods list. running two pipes has its benefits here and there depending on the setup, but for the most part, it really isnt needed.



FAQ's: MagnaFlow's Frequently Asked Questions

Question: Does a dual cat-back exhaust system perform better than a single?

Answer: In most cases a single exhaust will give you better torque and horsepower. The exception would be a heavily modified engine.
http://www.magnaflow.com/07techtips/faq/question14.asp
 
#19 ·
Thank you for clearing that up for me

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#20 · (Edited)
All I'm saying is I didn't lose any "performance" with my Daytona exhaust. When I first bolted it on, yes I took a slight hit on gas mileage and it felt a little more sluggish out of the hole, but once the PCM adaptives kicked in it was right back where it was prior to the exhaust. Add on the Diablo tune and it was even better. It's not about a single mod when you start modifying things, but the combo of parts. Is the Daytona exhaust the most efficient for my car? Probably not, but I'm not saying it is. Is it better than the stock V6 exhaust which uses the same muffler and resonator design as the R/T exhaust? IMO, yes it is. And as far as aftermarket exhaust go, it's quite a bit cheaper. I have under $180 invested in mine, including the cost of the used Daytona exhaust, the hangers, and installation. And from what I've seen on both here and LXf, my 9.85 1/8 time is one of the best times posted for a 3.5L with just a CAI, different exhaust, and Diablo tune. Even when "corrected" for D/A for the night it was run. So if weather or track conditions were the big factor, I know for a fact that there are a lot better tracks out there that people have run on that generally produce some of the best numbers and they are still not running 9.85s. I ran my truck the same night and got personal best ETs for it's set up but I was easily faster in my truck running at Sac Raceway in Cali in a worse DA. I'm not some spring chicken who has only raced at one track and my Charger isn't my first car I've taken to a track. I'm not saying I'm a pro either and feel that if I had time to get more runs in the night I got the 9.85 I would have been able to get an even better time. And according to more than one person the CAI I am running is actually hurting my low end torque. And I got that time running the Diablo 93 tune with no tweaks to fuel or spark.

FWIW, the car with the same set up but on the 91 tune put down 193hp/199ft/lbs to the wheels.
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#21 · (Edited)
all i'm need to say is back in 2008 one member posted dyno results of R/T exhaust, vs his aftermarket setup and stock.

he started with 174hp, with R/T he went down to 169, afterwards with a custom crush bent econo setup he was at 183, when we went to mandrel it went up to 186.

this was done on a dyno indoors, over a period of a week, not a track where conditions can change and you have done NO testing with elimination of variables. thats the beauty of dyno testing a single car, you try and remove as many variables as possible.

When I first bolted it on, yes I took a slight hit on gas mileage and it felt a little more sluggish out of the hole
sluggish things are NOT efficient. it takes more power to get things moving, and less power go to the wheels. basic working of a car or anything mechanical. with basic boltons you should feel a gain right off the bat. proves my point. ;)

but once the PCM adaptives kicked in it was right back where it was prior to the exhaust.
further proves my point. :D the engine now has to adapt to doing more work to make the same power. once again, less efficient. wastes more energy to get the same amount of work.... LESS EFFICIENT ;) remember, resetting adaptive only gives you a feel of improvment with all the fuse pullin and stuff. you reset something is something has gone awry and you want or need it to learn from the start. else modern computers adapt as its driven. ***Nail in Coffin ALERT*** but even without all that, you added something mechanical and it lost power,got sluggish. if it improved it, the minute it went on, you shoulda felt a boost in performance RIGHT FROM GO. obviously some exceptions are boost, nitrous setups, etc.. but all basic boltons are, are parts the allow whats already there to work more efficiently. it doesnt really produce more power, it allow the engine to work more efficiently and put more power to the wheels.

when i added headers, it didnt feel sluggish, it actually had a good surge when i stepped on the gas. when i added my exhaust, same thing, even noticed a bit more chirps off the line at stop lights. why? because it was more efficient than what i started with.:clap:


It's not about a single mod when you start modifying things, but the combo of parts.
your absolutely right! f'in totally agree with you. but think of this... how many weak links do you wanna put in your setup. thats how i view modding. example: if i'm gonna run boost down the road. why would i rebuild the bottom end with a forged crank, forged piston and economy rods? whats my weak link when i reach 15psi now? food for thought....marinate. :);)

Is the Daytona exhaust the most efficient for my car? Probably not, but I'm not saying it is. Is it better than the stock V6 exhaust which uses the same muffler and resonator design as the R/T exhaust? IMO, yes it is.
you're right on the first part... it isnt.

is is betther than the stock v6...your dead wrong. the stock exhaust does a better job at keeping the exhaust hot and flowing. what the goal of a performance exhaust? to evacuate gasses as quickly as possible. EFFICIENCY. it does this by way of keeping them hot. so when you have TWO banks of an engine, 6 cylinders flowing hot gases into 2.5 inches all the way back

or you can have 3 cylinders flowing into an exhaust thats actually longer more open chambers that slow exhaust down even further and a variety of different sized pipes ranging from 2 inch to 2.25 to 2.5 inch. remember one of the factors of backpressure is caused by slow stagnant exhaust gasses. engines trying to push more out, while slow flow backs things up. ;)


you just said the R/T and v6 use the same exact muffler and resonator design? OMGWTFBBQsauce baby! :shocked: you are so wrong there.:nono: I'll post cut open pic of all so there is NO confusion on which is what....resonators are similar if not the same on the outside. but inside, they are quite a bit different.

V6 muffler is a 2 pass muffler of sorts. comes in, streams to the other side, straight out.
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V8 suitcase muffler is a 3 pass, meaning it has to pass through 3 different sections not to mention make 2, yes TWO 180 degree turns... by now we should know the straightest line is the fastest. they did this because the v8 is a much more LOUDER engine and has a larger need to QUIET IT DOWN more than the v6... more open areas to cool down the exhaust pulse charge.
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on this alone, you saying the mufflers are the same....you're opinion is shot due to physical construction the pictures show, and just simple reasoning of how things work. remember the suitcase does the same thing on both sides, two 180 degree turns... the v6 muffler is one shift towards the left, almost straight through of sorts... pictures are proof. like i said, somethings you;ve said, i agree with, but on this, I NOR YOU NOR CAN ANYONE DISPUTE FACTS.

lets look at the resonators...this is kinda a draw in my view. the designs are significantly different on the inside:

Daytona...comes through the 2.25 pipe then has to SQUEEZE by the sides of that plate the pipe is held up by. remember its already slowed down the intensity/velocity from the suitcase... now its squeezes by the plate and into an open chamber where it has to flow into the U shaped pipe which its opening is 1 inch by 3 inches wide (so they could fit it in there). Both end of this U are welded to 2 inch (not 2.25 or 2.5... TWO INCH!)tubing which eventually opens up to the exit of 2.5 inches..
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V6 Resonator... 2.5 inches IN AND OUT!!! ;) however, heres the "hmmmmm drawbacks" of it... it comes in, but then has to flow through those many holes towards the rear, then out the pipe on the right. so basically in through the middle, down the grids through the open areas, slowing the exhaust pulses down cause remember open areas are bad for performance with hot gases involved, then out the 2.5 pipe.
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but overall...the v6 exhaust keeps it at 2.5 inches through the ENTIRE system. it doesnt split it off here and there, and keep changing the pipe sizes. only in the resonator does it make the exhaust actually make a two 180 degree turns. you do that 4 times in the daytona or R/T setup....two in the suitcase, two in the resonator.




And from what I've seen on both here and LXf, my 9.85 1/8 time is one of the best times posted for a 3.5L with just a CAI, different exhaust, and Diablo tune. Even when "corrected" for D/A for the night it was run
you said a stock v6 with a tune. you got a CAI in addition to all of that. wouldnt have been a fair comparison... ;) more airflow via a free-er flowing filter and smoother intake tube :) you're sneaky! :biggrinjester:

So if weather or track conditions were the big factor, I know for a fact that there are a lot better tracks out there that people have run on that generally produce some of the best numbers and they are still not running 9.85s. I ran my truck the same night and got personal best ETs for it's set up but I was easily faster in my truck running at Sac Raceway in Cali in a worse DA. I'm not some spring chicken who has only raced at one track and my Charger isn't my first car I've taken to a track. I'm not saying I'm a pro either and feel that if I had time to get more runs in the night I got the 9.85 I would have been able to get an even better time. And according to more than one person the CAI I am running is actually hurting my low end torque. And I got that time running the Diablo 93 tune with no tweaks to fuel or spark.
like i said, i posted a 300+ hp car, with 270 tq...vs your cai, exhaust and tune and you were only 0.1 seconds slower in 1/8 mile.

-did he run at a "good track" or a "bad track"?
-was it a good track on a bad night?
-was it a bad track on a good night?
-what other cars with v6's run at the track or your track that you can compare.
-whats the wear and tear on their engines vs yours?

too many factors/variables etc.... plus i hate bench racing:bigthumb:



but like you said, you ran your truck the same night and posted personal bests....well obviously it was a GREAT night for you at the track. the track was good, you had good traction, prob some nice cool dense air where it was cool enough to get good power, but not cool enough to cool the track down and mess up traction. you ran what you ran, but that has no bearing on testing one part, especially since you have more than one aftermarket part working to get you that 9.85 you're proud of, AND SHOULD BE.:beerchug:

I've never seen your "CAI" but honestly, unless its severely undersized, like inertia motorsports has already TESTED and STATED the intake manifolds are our restrictions on the intake side of things. prob not your "CAI" unless you just got a filter hanging there in a hot area with no heat sheild...then initially when you hit the gas, you're takin in hot air before you get to moving a bit where things cool down as you go...

but in the end you can only compare your times fully stock vs now if you wanna compare parts. you added intake, exhaust, and a tune, then ran what you ran... two guys with the same car go by the exact same parts and one is faster...what do you legitamently tell them? goes to show, two cars with the same parts can do different times and numbers.


thats why i stick to posting facts about how things work, and back it up with links, documents, pics, proof, to why they work like that... and sometimes even video...


37 seconds in the video...






in the end, you went the way you did, and thats fine. if your happy, more power to you... but if anyone is interested in getting the most performance as possible, dont waste time taking step backwards just to pass back by that point going forwards. simple logic and reasoning.
 
#26 · (Edited)
all i'm need to say is back in 2008 one member posted dyno results of R/T exhaust, vs his aftermarket setup and stock.

he started with 174hp, with R/T he went down to 169, afterwards with a custom crush bent econo setup he was at 183, when we went to mandrel it went up to 186.........
So what you're saying is that the dyno that you keep referring to as an accurate gauge of how a modification performs, shows that on a stock engine the RT exhaust will cause a loss of 5hp? That's FIVE horsepower on a stock Charger? That's hardly a major concern. A professional driver (or maybe someone who races regularly) might feel that difference on a car they have dialed in, but an average person driving a stock daily driver Charger will not feel that. A good tune-up can gain you more than that (or the need for one can cost you more). I think you have just unknowingly supported the idea of using a RT exhaust on a V6 for the original intent of this thread.

I still stand by the opinion of using it (obviously). For a purely cosmetic upgrade, which is again the point of the OP's original post, it is a great mod which can be done much cheaper than going aftermarket with no noticeable ill effects. If you're going to the drag strip, running dynos, etc where 5 hp makes a difference you have probably already considered a performance exhaust, because you're using the car for performance reasons. The majority of V6 owners do not fall into this criteria and therefor can easily use the RT exhaust and be perfectly happy, while saving a load of cash in the process. Some people have made the RT exhaust work for performance reasons on a V6, but again it's not likely the only performance mod they have, and again not the point of the OP's question.

Long post short. USE THE RT EXHAUST ON YOUR V6 WITHOUT FEAR. The SRT exhaust originally mentioned may be a bit excessive though for a stock V6. Just something to consider.
 
#22 ·
I don't consider my Daytona exhaust a step backwards. Whether you want to throw out pictures of the exhaust cut aways or not, it is what it is and my car runs what it does, and my numbers don't lie. As far as comparisons, hard to say. there was another V6 Charger running at the track that same night and I even made a few runs in it because the owner was a drag racing novice. He had same CAI and a R/T exhaust, but no Diablo. IIRC, i got a 10.2 in his car. BTW, I have a fender pull CAI from Prozen motorsports with the K&N filter off of a FIPK kit for my truck on it. and I have the 42RLE tranny which most consider the inferior transmission for performance.

You bring up the 300+hp 270ft/lb V6 and his 1/8 mile times like it's supposed to be some sort of comparison. I've seen Dakotas with custom built boosted motors putting down over 500 hp on the dyno that couldn't make it down the drag strip at full throttle without cutting out and blowing smoke. They ran great on the dyno and had people drooling until they tried making a few runs on a drag strip. There's more to it than just slapping some go fast parts on your car and making a few dyno runs to show how bad ass you car is. The drag strip is a better guage of how well your vehicle can perform than a dyno. If my 193hp V6 can run a similar time to a boosted V6 then I'd have to say there was somethign wrong with the set up on the 300+hp boosted car making it have poor performance on the drag strip. My truck put down 290hp on the dyno but ran a 13.75 in the 1/4 mile. If I used my dyno numbers as a guage to how fast my truck is it shouldn't have ran that quick on the drag strip when compared to other Dakotas with similar dyno numbers.
 
#24 · (Edited)
I don't consider my Daytona exhaust a step backwards.
appearance no, to some seeing duals is an improvement

in making your car what you wanted...no not at allif thats what you truly wanted, then you took a step forward... if its just something you settled for cause it was cheap...well i dont really need to say the obvious.


but as far as performance, i disagree and have shown facts why that exhaust isnt efficient and less efficient than stock. and if its not adding efficiency, then its not adding power, its taking away. like you said, you added it and it was sluggish. (THESE ARE YOUR WORDS BTW) you had to wait for "adaptives" to bring you back to normal. if an exhaust is a step up from stock, you'd have noticed the gains immediately.

sorry, but if you were doing 100mph, and then you drop to 95 (which you without a doubt PASSED to get to 100 in the first place) and now you have to go back to 100... you have taken a step backwards to now go forwads again.

1) you car wasnt sluggish...

2) you added the exhaust and it because sluggish

3) then you car "adapted" and wasnt as sluggish which means the car had to figure out a way to do more work to make things feel normal. more work which coulda be put to the wheels.

step backwards, step forwads. :D

Whether you want to throw out pictures of the exhaust cut aways or not, it is what it is and my car runs what it does, and my numbers don't lie.
Neither does anyone elses numbers. your numbers were done with NO befores or afters of said part...so basically to me, and anyone debating said part, they are IRRELEVANT.

i couldnt say a certain part made me run faster when i added 3 other parts before i "tested" the one part. you are telling us your fastest time, after the addition of intake exhaust and a 93 octane tune...

tell us your gains when you were bone stock and then adding the daytona exhaust.

which is why until you do, if possible, the dyno sheets that were posted showing before and after.... i'll take as better proof.

also you ADMITTING that you added the exhaust and then your car got sluggish, well obviously something wasnt performing as good as the stock counterpart, was it? ;)



As far as comparisons, hard to say. there was another V6 Charger running at the track that same night and I even made a few runs in it because the owner was a drag racing novice. He had same CAI and a R/T exhaust, but no Diablo. IIRC, i got a 10.2 in his car.
while thats all good and dandy,:bigthumb: your really cant compare two different cars with the same parts. its pointless. you have to compare car for car. which is why i bring up the points of the supercharged car and the fact that two cars with the same parts will not magically run the same times...


BTW, I have a fender pull CAI from Prozen motorsports with the K&N filter off of a FIPK kit for my truck on it.
fender pulls usually have a tendency to have more down low and mid range gains... thats why on our intake manifolds, the short runner valve only upens up at ABOVE 5000RPM...shorter runners or headers are good for upper rpm pull.

long tube headers or long runners are good for low to mid range power.



and I have the 42RLE tranny which most consider the inferior transmission for performance.
true, most consider it inferior, but in saving grace, it is being compared to a mercedes designed setup;)

You bring up the 300+hp 270ft/lb V6 and his 1/8 mile times like it's supposed to be some sort of comparison.
it isnt... which is my point. if you only ran 1 tenth slower than a car with over 100 more hp... then how can we really test a single part by comparing your runs with anyone elses posted runs at different tracks nation or world wide?


I've seen Dakotas with custom built boosted motors putting down over 500 hp on the dyno that couldn't make it down the drag strip at full throttle without cutting out and blowing smoke. They ran great on the dyno and had people drooling until they tried making a few runs on a drag strip.
well looks like two things.... they are dyno queens and not performers.

and they prob didnt use the dyno to do whats its supposed to be used for.... testing parts by eliminating extra variables.


There's more to it than just slapping some go fast parts on your car and making a few dyno runs to show how bad ass you car is.
agreed and common sense. but a dyno is used to tune a car. add a part see if it produces gains. if it does, then tune further to get the most out of your setup. thats what a dyno is for...


The drag strip is a better guage of how well your vehicle can perform than a dyno.
yes, in real world terms it is... however if you wanted to test a single part, then a dyno is very beneficial. as said its what a dyno is used for.. dont try and start twisting things around to where, we are talking about total vehicle performance. this whole thing is about is the R/T exhaust a good choice performance wise for our vehicles. from those that have done testing, they lost power. is anyone here still believing in that bullsh*t jet performance module some of you called a "chip" back in the day? NO! Why? because it was tested on numerous vehicles and shown to LOSE power. then people finally stopped bying because of "cult following" and started smartening up on how to actually tune this platform when the flash prorgammers finally came out and B&G wasnt the only option anymore.


If my 193hp V6 can run a similar time to a boosted V6 then I'd have to say there was somethign wrong with the set up on the 300+hp boosted car making it have poor performance on the drag strip.
finally you are getting it.:bigthumb:

guys on the LX forums with basic boltons mods are running faster than 9.85...heres two:

fnkychkn

2007 DODGE Magnum SXT
Reaction: 0.166
60 Foot: 2.092
330 Foot: 6.054
1/8th: 9.35 @ 74.00 MPH

Zoban

2006 DODGE Magnum SXT
Reaction: 0.537
60 Foot: 2.217
330 Foot: 6.291
1/8th: 9.67 @ 74.00 MPH
http://www.lxforums.com/board/garage.php?do=timeslip&page=5



My truck put down 290hp on the dyno but ran a 13.75 in the 1/4 mile. If I used my dyno numbers as a guage to how fast my truck is it shouldn't have ran that quick on the drag strip when compared to other Dakotas with similar dyno numbers.
once again you're trying to hard to skip out... this isnt about how fast your truck is. this isnt about how fast your charger is...

this is about the performance gains/losses of using a stock exhaust of another car. im still on the same subject. where are you?:confused:;) stay on subject! stop trying to meander away from what we were talking about. testing of a single part....now trying to make this into overall performance....


and even if you did do that, and i didnt pick up on it.... you're only fooling yourself. overall performance of any car is a combination of the parts that its composed of.... so if you have 3 good parts and 1 bad part...the one bad part is holding you back of what you can potentially personally run in gaining your best times.

for now, i'm done here, if you somehow find some actual proof or testing that shows where open chambered mufflers are performance producers in the exhaust realm of mods... please post up ;)
 
#25 ·
when talking about modern computer controlled cars, you can add a part that adds hp once you tune for it that will hurt performance on a stock tune. The Daytona exhaust was the first part I added. I didn't reset the PCM when I put it on. The computer needed to learn how the proper duty cycle for the injectors to obtain the correct a/f ratio for the new part. The car running sluggish was because the car was trying to use adaptives it had learned for the stock single exhaust with a better flowing dual exhaust. Even with all the cut outs you posted the exhaust system as a whole flows more air than the stock single exhaust. You can't expect a computer controlled car to immediately adjust the tune for a new part when added. Which is where the adaptives come in. And also why you would want a tuner like the Diablo to be able to optimize the tune. Has nothing to do with the car figuring out a way to do more work.

As I said, it's about the combo of parts. Obviously my "combo" is working. Did I install the Daytona exhaust expecting more performance? No, and never said I did, and have never recommended it to anyone as a performance upgrade. But I would doubt that my car could put down the numbers it has with the stock exhaust. And once again when I installed the exhaust the car was still running the stock tune with the adpatives it had learned from running on the stock single exhaust, then whatever changes it may have made for the short time I ran it with no exhaust when I drove to the store for reflective tape, and then drove to the exhaust shop.

You asked me what other cars with a V6 ran at the same track the same time to compare to, I told you and then you say I can't compare two different cars. Which is it? Do you want to know about other cars i could compare to or was that just a pointless question by you? I don't understand why you would ask for it in one post then when I provide you with the info you say it's pointless to compare. Please make up your mind.

As for my fender pull, when i posted my dyno numbers right after I ran on a dyno and then went to the track, another V6 owner posted his dyno numbers. His HP was about the same but he had more torque. He said he has seen that the fender pull intake generally produce less torque compared to the short rams on the V6. You are refuting that with no info to back it up. What works on one motor doesn't necessarily work on another.

The dyno is only good for comparing different parts as long as you have done before and after runs. But it's also a good way to compare mods with other vehicles. While it's true two cars set up exactly the same can make different numbers on the same dyno, generally speaking they will be close. And with SAE corrections it makes it fairly easy to compare to different vehicles in different parts of the country just as a general comparison. But the drag strip is still a better way to really show what performance increase you got, even for single mods. As a dyno won't show any gains below 3000-3500RPMs. Which is where gains that help get you off the line will take place. And with as many people go to the track and with correcting for DA, just like the dyno it's not that hard to compare numbers with other people. If I corrected my 9.85 time for DA, it would have been a "faster" time based on the conditions at the time of the run. As far as the two times you posted form LXf, that's two cars out of how many? Also, the one car which was only 2 tenths faster had headers which I didn't and an unspecified Corsa exhaust. The faster car didn't list any mods so who's to say what they really had to even try to compare.

Granted you bring up good points, and I can see where you are coming from, but your logic isn't supporting my numbers the car has done. If I went just by what you have posted, my car should be running worse times and less hp than a car with a stock V6 exhaust. But it's not.

I'm not trying to "skip out" on anything. I'm posting info to support my reasoning. You are trying to discredit it as trying to "skip out" or deflect the subject. Talking about how fast my car is is supporting my thought that the Daytona exhasut is helping the performance of my car of the stock V6 exhaust, which everything you have posted says it shouldn't. Talking about how fast my truck is is showing a comparison to another vehicle and how dyno numbers don't always support track times and vice versa and that while I did run personal best numbers that same night at the track in my truck, I was able to easily beat those numbers at a different track showing that the track conditions the night of my 9.85 run were not ideal. Meaning the car had more in it.