[ert]

Perhaps the off topic discussion was not really helpful to OP. I would just say when selecting performance modifications, be mindful that performance gains are often exaggerated. Dyno results can be affected by many other variables aside from the added components. This is a really nice write up: http://www.dynoperformance.com/article_details.php?article_id=14

 

[702RN]

Perhaps the off topic discussion was not really helpful to OP. I would just say when selecting performance modifications, be mindful that performance gains are often exaggerated. Dyno results can be affected by many other variables aside from the added components. This is a really nice write up: http://www.dynoperformance.com/article_details.php?article_id=14

Performance gains are exaggerated mainly by the manufactures themselves trying to promote their product. But personal dyno sheets are a great indication of performance. Sure a dyno is designed to test the car in optimal conditions with crazy airflow and temperature control but it still doesn't take away the fact there are gains to be had. You are correct in saying that some claims and expectations should be taken with a grain of salt, but not to the point where you expect nothing.

These cars aren't the best responders to tuning but they definitely wake up with a few simple modifications. Even if performance gains are on the lower end for some mods the drivability of the car increases exponentially and that is a beautiful thing.

 

[370 HEMI]

Hey guys this is my first real post so please be gentle...

I'm looking for ways to increase the speed and throttle response of my Charger (2014 R/T 100th Anniversary Edition). Don't get me wrong, its plenty fun now but I'd like to make it to where it stands out from other R/T Chargers performance wise. I don't need an SRT8 (or I would have bought one) but something with a little more get up and go then the average off the line R/T would be awesome. Say a goal of 400ish HP.

This is first car I've ever owned, everything else has been a truck or Jeep with 35" or bigger tires.

I assume there is some interchangeability, for example a more free flowing exhaust (Dynaflow or Flowmaster?) and intake (I've read good things about the LMI CAI on these forums).

The gearing I think I'll leave alone because it feels pretty tall.

But I'm open to other ideas. Plugs, Hypertech Programmer?

Thanks for the advice and again...
Be gentle, first post :laugh2:

Basically the thing to remember is that all of the other "performance modifications" that are done in a car are DEPENDENT on the fuel used and the lubricants used. It has been proven that putting ACES IV in the fuel will make a significant difference in how the car burns the fuel, what kind of HP and TQ can be obtained basically building on the other mods mentioned prior to this.

Flame front and pressure wave dynamics change with the speed of the gasses in the combustion chamber. Volume of air in and out help but to a limited factor mechanically. Fuel utilization is tantamount!

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com

 

[bbselement]

No one has mentioned the Scat Packs available from the factory. I know they're not cost efficient, but I love having the factory mods and a full warranty. I also think the car wouldn't be devalued as much (compared to non-factory mods) when it comes time to sell. I have the Scat Pack 1 installed and the Scat Pack 2 on order. The 1 adds 18hp and 18 lb/ft or torque. The 2 is supposed to add 30hp and 30 lb/ft of torque. That would put the car right at 400hp and 425 lb/ft or torque.

 

[ert]

But personal dyno sheets are a great indication of performance.

I pretty much agree with you. All I can say is that I personally know of instances where shops intentionally setup dyno run conditions to exaggerate claims. There's a big incentive to show gains after a customer paid $2000+ for a catback + cai and tune. I'm not sure what percentage of posted sheets are done as a hobby or at a trusted shop in contrast to results that were generated as part of a shop tune package.

 

[ert]

It has been proven that putting ACES IV in the fuel will make a significant difference in how the car burns the fuel, what kind of HP and TQ can be obtained basically building on the other mods mentioned prior to this.

Is there any published literature available that shows performance gains using ACES IV?

 

[ert]

No one has mentioned the Scat Packs available from the factory. I know they're not cost efficient, but I love having the factory mods and a full warranty. I also think the car wouldn't be devalued as much (compared to non-factory mods) when it comes time to sell. I have the Scat Pack 1 installed and the Scat Pack 2 on order. The 1 adds 18hp and 18 lb/ft or torque. The 2 is supposed to add 30hp and 30 lb/ft of torque. That would put the car right at 400hp and 425 lb/ft or torque.

Yeah, I was wondering about #2 . I don't suppose we can skip over #1 if we already have better intake and exhaust...

 

[702RN]

I pretty much agree with you. All I can say is that I personally know of instances where shops intentionally setup dyno run conditions to exaggerate claims. There's a big incentive to show gains after a customer paid $2000+ for a catback + cai and tune. I'm not sure what percentage of posted sheets are done as a hobby or at a trusted shop in contrast to results that were generated as part of a shop tune package.

I appreciate your scientific approach to this whole thing. Simply put, you are REALLY over analyzing things.

These cars have been tested by many respected forum members here and over on LX. At this point we have a pretty good idea of what works on these cars and what does not. If you read around the forums you will see a solid continuity of knowledge and opinion regarding mods.

There is a reason why everyone goes for a CAI, exhaust, and a tune first. These are the best bang for the buck and have proven time and again to increase power. Now it's also known that swapping the exhaust on these cars does nothing for horsepower since the stock exhaust flows damn good. But a better, wider diameter exhaust helps support future engine modifications. Plus with the addition of proper tuning you are in business.

 

[370 HEMI]

Is there any published literature available that shows performance gains using ACES IV?

Yes actually a couple things:





Also Chevy 598 V8 on SF-902 Dyno. Dyno operators were negative on using ANY fuel additive. They were significantly surprised.







Also Wilson's 5.7L Hemi:

Everything is installed and tuned by Ding's Racing (Ding's Complete Car Care in Vancouver, WA). My tuner, and installer is the CURRENT record holder for LX6.1 Super Stock (bolt on only, stock heads and cam, running 11.52@117.8).

Here are the build specs:
Inertia Motorsport 400ci with ported Eagle Heads
Procharger F-1A
175+300 shot of nitrous


I was planning to run with E-85, but the injector was not big enough when we did the dyno run on Friday. So, in the rush, we tried to empty the tank, then ended up putting in 15+ gallons of PUMP GAS. Then, I added the ACES IV in the gas tank.

On the next day, I added 5 more gallons of race fuel in the tank.

The BND fluids that I use in the car are:
BND QuantumBlue Engine Oil and QuantumBlue Ultra HP Oil filter
BND QuantumBlue NAG1 tranny fluid
BND QuantumBlue High Performance Tackified Red differential fluid
ACES IV Gasoline Formula.


The first time that I told my tuner about ACES IV, he just laughed at me. He tuned my car with the ACES IV in it (without knowing there was ACES IV already in the gas). Later on, he filled the gas and find the car knocked! He told me he just wanted to try adding ACES IV and expecting the same result as with a regular octance booster!

He saw 3* of advanced timing as a result of using the ACES IV, and from that time, he always ADDED ACES IV to my car. Not just that, he started to recommend ACES IV to others since it really proved to work!

The full info and videos are here:

http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207241

There are hundreds of people that use ACES IV every day and data log finding that it stops the knock retard individually!:beerchug:

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com

 

[Another_rt]

No one has mentioned the Scat Packs available from the factory. I know they're not cost efficient, but I love having the factory mods and a full warranty. I also think the car wouldn't be devalued as much (compared to non-factory mods) when it comes time to sell. I have the Scat Pack 1 installed and the Scat Pack 2 on order. The 1 adds 18hp and 18 lb/ft or torque. The 2 is supposed to add 30hp and 30 lb/ft of torque. That would put the car right at 400hp and 425 lb/ft or torque.

Just out of curiosity, how much did stage 1 cost you. I have called and ask my dealership but they said they haven't gotten any prices yet.

 

[702RN]

Just out of curiosity, how much did stage 1 cost you. I have called and ask my dealership but they said they haven't gotten any prices yet.

Stage 1 isn't anything special. You won't even feel 18 hp/tq. Imo, your best bet is to go for a tuner and throw a good CAI on. If you want a better sound go for an exhaust too because it will not only sound better but a slightly wider diameter pipe will help the overall flow.

 

[kar1zma]

LMI intake and SOLO hi flow cats
and u will really feel a difference

 

[bbselement]

Just out of curiosity, how much did stage 1 cost you. I have called and ask my dealership but they said they haven't gotten any prices yet.

Scat Pack 1 is $2195, 2 is $1995 and 3 is $4995. I had to stay on my dealer to get SP1 and it's not the dealer's fault, Chrysler is sloooow to respond. Stage 2 is going to be a hassle also, my guy says he can't get a part number for it. I'm probably gonna stop at Stage 2. I don't see anyone buying Stage 3, it takes the 5.7L to 428hp / 442 lb/ft of torque, but at that point you've spent as much or more than an SRT for less power and less features. I think SP2 gives the most bang for the buck. I bought my car with a $3500 rebate from Dodge and I'll be in it around 41K with an SP2 and have a car with 400 factory horsepower.

 

[Another_rt]

Scat Pack 1 is $2195, 2 is $1995 and 3 is $4995. I had to stay on my dealer to get SP1 and it's not the dealer's fault, Chrysler is sloooow to respond. Stage 2 is going to be a hassle also, my guy says he can't get a part number for it. I'm probably gonna stop at Stage 2. I don't see anyone buying Stage 3, it takes the 5.7L to 428hp / 442 lb/ft of torque, but at that point you've spent as much or more than an SRT for less power and less features. I think SP2 gives the most bang for the buck. I bought my car with a $3500 rebate from Dodge and I'll be in it around 41K with an SP2 and have a car with 400 factory horsepower.

Thanks for the info. May go with other mods for now.

 

[tacamo01]

Scat Pack 1 is $2195, 2 is $1995 and 3 is $4995. I had to stay on my dealer to get SP1 and it's not the dealer's fault, Chrysler is sloooow to respond. Stage 2 is going to be a hassle also, my guy says he can't get a part number for it. I'm probably gonna stop at Stage 2. I don't see anyone buying Stage 3, it takes the 5.7L to 428hp / 442 lb/ft of torque, but at that point you've spent as much or more than an SRT for less power and less features. I think SP2 gives the most bang for the buck. I bought my car with a $3500 rebate from Dodge and I'll be in it around 41K with an SP2 and have a car with 400 factory horsepower.

Don't be fooled by the numbers put out by MOPAR. IMO they are on the low side. With stage one you are getting a MOPAR tune (From their engineers) , CAI and the catback. Stage 2 you get the Cam. Question is, what kind of Cam. I suspect that it is very close to the 392 cam if not the same. You also get the 91 Octane tune to go with that. IMHO you will be around 355-365 rwhp with this setup. Right at the old SRT stock numbers. You will not feel 18 hp increase but when the cam gets installed, you will notice the difference.

 

[EddieFL]

Scat Pack 1 is $2195, 2 is $1995 and 3 is $4995. I had to stay on my dealer to get SP1 and it's not the dealer's fault, Chrysler is sloooow to respond. Stage 2 is going to be a hassle also, my guy says he can't get a part number for it. I'm probably gonna stop at Stage 2. I don't see anyone buying Stage 3, it takes the 5.7L to 428hp / 442 lb/ft of torque, but at that point you've spent as much or more than an SRT for less power and less features. I think SP2 gives the most bang for the buck. I bought my car with a $3500 rebate from Dodge and I'll be in it around 41K with an SP2 and have a car with 400 factory horsepower.

I also have a 100th AE R/T and have been looking into the Scat Packs, and like you there is no way I would go for the stage 3 as it's just a ridiculous price for it. I definitely want stage one as it bundles the popular mods most people end up doing and keeping the warranty is a definte plus. I know others have done the same or better with less money but I have to admit I am a sucker for factory performance packages and historical links lol. Within reason though, I would probably stop at stage 2 as well or go with stage one and save up for a supercharger (e-force probably) much later on.

 

[bbselement]

I also have a 100th AE R/T and have been looking into the Scat Packs, and like you there is no way I would go for the stage 3 as it's just a ridiculous price for it. I definitely want stage one as it bundles the popular mods most people end up doing and keeping the warranty is a definte plus. I know others have done the same or better with less money but I have to admit I am a sucker for factory performance packages and historical links lol. Within reason though, I would probably stop at stage 2 as well or go with stage one and save up for a supercharger (e-force probably) much later on.

The supercharger idea sounds interesting, I'm with you on the "much later on". I've got an extended warranty to 80K miles lol. Concerning Stage 1, I feel the 18/18 compared to stock, and the exhaust note rocks. Definitely more pull but not a lot more. Really looking forward to the cam.

 

[tacamo01]

Good ideas, have fun with the increased power and retain the factory warranty. Longtubes add hp at the top but really shine with a bigger cam and there is no reason to get bigger heads or P/P heads because the eagle heads flow so good. (600 hp rating) After the warranty is up if you keep the ride, look at drop in pistons and a blower or get the motor forged. 80,000 miles is a long way off but you have the safety of the factory warranty and will be running faster than most R/T's and staying real close to the old SRT's.:beerchug:

 

[bbselement]

80,000 miles is a long way off but you have the safety of the factory warranty and will be running faster than most R/T's and staying real close to the old SRT's.:beerchug:

Funny you should mention the old SRT's, that's my performance goal. I think the factory stage 3 would make a current R/T as fast as an old SRT, the hp and torque numbers are very similar. Not sure about the weight. But after the Scat Pack 2 I'm gonna have to do something different (and cheaper) to add power. Thanks for the insight.

 

[370 HEMI]

Funny you should mention the old SRT's, that's my performance goal. I think the factory stage 3 would make a current R/T as fast as an old SRT, the hp and torque numbers are very similar. Not sure about the weight. But after the Scat Pack 2 I'm gonna have to do something different (and cheaper) to add power. Thanks for the insight.

When we added the ACES IV, QuantumBlue 12.5w40 engine oil + filter and the QuantumBlue HP Gold coolant in our SRT8 2006, at the dyno we picked up 19 hp and 31 ftlbs of torque with these three things.

When we changed over the NAG1 and the differential, we got a total of 25 hp and 38 ftlbs of torque. We picked up 3 tenths of a second, 2.5 mph and 2.5 mpg more going home. We did this for $ 242.66 initially and then another $193.62 for the trans and differential. Total of $436.28. 25 hp and 38 ftlbs.:beerchug:

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com