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How to stop brake squeal. Answers here.

91K views 31 replies 22 participants last post by  gfrice  
#1 · (Edited)
Here's the skinny on the Why of brake squeal and the How to stop it. I was planning to append this to my thread on swapping brake pads, but it's come up enough lately that I think it'll be more helpful on its own.

For the purposes of this discussion, I'm talking about the intermittent squeal you get at less than full pedal pressure - NOT a constant squeal all the time, regardless of pedal pressure - that one likely means your pads are worn down to the limits and need to be replaced. There are also other conditions with faulty/worn parts that can cause it, but here I'm talking about the normal squeal that you'll encounter even if your parts are perfect.

A little groundwork: The brake pads are pressed to the rotors either by:

- Pistons on both pads (in the case of Brembos and Wilwoods, etc.) or by
- Piston(s) on one pad, against the floating caliper itself on the other side (in the case of stock brakes).

Either way, force is applied to each pad from something behind it.

Here's the matter at hand:

The squeal you hear is a result of vibration between the brake pad and rotor that occurs when less than full clamping force is applied to the pads. It's also called "chatter" or "rattle," but it's a squeal that you hear. That micro-vibration is eliminated by firmer pedal pressure (clamping force), but there are ways to eliminate it at lower pedal pressure as well.

To stop that micro-vibration, you need to dampen the contact patch between the back of the pad, and whatever acts upon it (piston or caliper).

In these two photos, you can see the wear marks on the back of each pad, and see where the contact patch is:

Image


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There are a few substances available to do the dampening:

This is what I was sold when I went in and asked for "anti-squeal":
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Essentially the same as this (but NOT the same as chassis grease - you need a good Moly-based High-heat grease):
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The best thing I've found is this - it's much tackier than grease, and lasts longer:
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Before you apply whatever you decide to use, clean off all the contact surfaces well - the backs of the pads, and the face of the pistons/calipers:

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Then spray (or smear) the stuff onto the contact patch:

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And reassemble the caliper assembly:

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This stuff is messy, and it will collect dirt. I suppose if you wanted to, you could take some brake cleaner or lacquer thinner to the exposed parts after it's reassembled. Probably not a bad idea.

Go for a drive around the block right away, and let everything seat where it wants to.

OK, one other thing you can do. These are called the anti-rattle clips, and their purpose is to apply some tension to the pads to keep them from vibrating:

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You can tweak them a little bit so they apply more tension to the pads like so:

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And here you can see the slight bend where the clip will contact the pad:

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In most cases, the application of something to the contact patch will solve the majority of squealing issues. In my experience, grease did it temporarily. The tacky adhesiveness of the aerosol stuff seems to work a lot longer.


Hope it helps! Cheers.

EDIT: Within a week or so, it's a good idea to bed in the brakes. Here's the proper procedure for doing that, from Dave Zeckhausen:

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm
 
#3 · (Edited)
I agree, but the ultimate solution most overlook besides what you posted is one simple step for those that buy the car new.

And this only applies to new car owners, BED THEM DAMN BRAKES.

Oh yeah great post, I have bookmarked it for when I need to replace mine
 
#9 ·
I cant remember the name of the stuff I use all the time for some reason, but it essentially accomplishes the same issue at hand by "gluing" the pads in to the caliper. Its red and comes in a small little squeeze bottle.... SquealStop? Ahhh, damn the name of it is eluding me..... next time Im in the garage, Ill be sure to find it and get the name. I highly prefer this stuff as it squeezes out and is pretty thick, thus making it easier to control as to where its applied, vs. a spray can that goes all over.

Either way, good post for the folks out there who dont know too much about this stuff. Definitely a good way to stop the squealing. Sometimes this doesnt ALWAYS work, but Id say 90% of the time, this will do the trick.

Btw, good thing you picked up those new rotors from coolvanilla..... yours look like hell right now! Thats how my first set looked before I took the car in to get the brakes straightened out, so Ive been there before. But my new ones are holding up ALOT better and dont look anywhere near as bad as they did before.

Props on the write-up! :rockon:

-Pat
 
#10 ·
I cant remember the name of the stuff I use all the time for some reason, but it essentially accomplishes the same issue at hand by "gluing" the pads in to the caliper. Its red and comes in a small little squeeze bottle.... SquealStop? Ahhh, damn the name of it is eluding me..... next time Im in the garage, Ill be sure to find it and get the name. I highly prefer this stuff as it squeezes out and is pretty thick, thus making it easier to control as to where its applied, vs. a spray can that goes all over.
I've never used it, but CRC makes a squeezable version of the spray stuff too - it might be the same or similar... CRC Disc Brake Quiet

Btw, good thing you picked up those new rotors from coolvanilla..... yours look like hell right now!
LOL - those are my rears, so they're still around! :grin:
 
#12 ·
But...this not what my Dealer is suggesting...and he is pretty good normally.
Here are the details-I needed new pads at 15K. Did not want to pay $300 a pad for Brembos and brake dust-not like I am racing all the time. So I went with the Wagner Posi Quiets recommend by the board-and my goodyear installed them.
Then I noticed the exact low speed squeak you mention-the goodyear guy had no advice.
The Dodge guy thinks the issue is the slotted rotors as all the SRT8's do now.
Rotors should be turned when you install new pads-but you can't turn slotted rotors. If you don't turn the rotors-you can get break squeal from lip created when the first set of pad wore down. Which seems to make sense-it would create a gap just like loose pads would.
So he says-that most likely I need to get new rotors as well. He is a reasonable guy-not trying to oversell me-he is open to other opinions.
So-what do you folks think? You seem to know this area well.
 
#13 ·
Personally, I think all off that "you cant cut slotted or drilled rotors" crap is a bunch of BS. Ive had them before on my past two cars and I cut both sets I had. One was just drilled on my Wrangler, and on my Monte Carlo they are drilled AND slotted. You can cut them, you just need to do it slowly, meaning only taking off little bits at a time. Of course a shop will tell you you cant cut them because time is money, and they dont want to sit there and babysit rotors all day. But if you can find someone with a lathe, it can be done, just takes time. And its MUCH more cost effective than buying brand new ones.

You are absolutely correct in that you should not put new pads on without cutting the rotor. Everything you said there is absolutely true. Therefore, cut your rotors, put your new pads on with the CDC stuff, and voila, youve got yourself near brand new, perfectly functioning brakes...... that DONT squeal.

-Pat
 
#15 ·
No problem.... but for the record, it's NOT that the average shop CANT fix them, its typically that they dont want to take the time to do it right. Any shop with a lathe can resurface those rotors, but instead of only makin a few cuts, they have to make alot (little bit by little bit) in order to get them perfect. And when new rotors can cost hundreds of dollars because they are Brembo, resurfacing should definitely be an option for you.

-Pat
 
#18 ·
I have a 2006 R/T. I replaced the stock rotors with drilled and slotted rotors. I also replaced the pads at the same time. I am getting a clicking noise when I drive the car without applying the brakes. I took everything back apart and cleaned everything but the noise persists. It sounds like a playing card in a bicycle spoke. I notice when I have the car jacked up and spin the front wheels that I hear the noise. So it must be coming from the pads rubbing on the rotor without the brakes being applied. Is this normal for slotted and drilled rotors? Should the pads be rubbing against the rotors when the brakes are not applied? Should I replace the pads? Thanks for the help.
 
#24 ·
sorry about kinda bring a post from the dead back but this is exactly what happened to me.. i got the slotted dimpled rotors and free pads from brakeperformance.com and i installed them correctly and gave the rotor a turn before putting the tire back on and heard it really rubbing i was like wtf..so i said will maybe if i put the tire on itll be ok after its torqued but man i heard the sound loud

mine are black and after about 3 miles it was worn off a lil bit but still heard the sound..so i call them and they said its normal to hear that sound from the wind exiting the slots and will go away after a while so i said ok and today i bed the brakes and the card sound is still kind of there but not as bad

i know i put everything on correct and lubed everyting that their is to lube and made sure the shield was straight..i hope the annoying sound does go away shortly
 
#19 ·
Some drag is normal - when you let up on the brake pedal, the pads never actually retract - they only stop pushing. So they will drag on the rotors some, and that's normal.

The clicking thing isn't normal though. The only thing I can suggest is to get your head under there and have a good listen while you spin the wheel to see if you can isolate it.
 
#20 ·
Yes I did that and the noise is definitely coming from the brake bads rubbing against the rotors. I hear the normal rubbing sound of the pads contacting the rotor but then every full rotation I get a different sound like a playing card in a spoke. Was thinking about changing the pads but I am not sure that will help. Must be a spot on each rotor that is hitting the pad differently than just the normal rubbing. Ahhh the joys of after market parts. I will prbably end up replacing the rotors with non slotted and dimpled......
 
#21 ·
Hmmmm.... it's been a while since Ive checked out our stock brake setups, so I cant remember off hand, but I would check to make sure that all clips are tucked in and installed properly. And by clips, I mean the ones that provide tension on the brake pads themselves inside the bracket they sit in. If that clip(s) is even slightly out of place, it may be catching a certain spot on the rotor.

However, if you or a local shop has access to a lathe, I would try cutting the rotors. The guy that I used to work for insisted upon cutting new rotors as soon as they came out of the box, as he claimed they always had imperfections even when new. I dont typically do that anymore myself, but it has proven to be the case more than a few times over the course of my experience. Might be worth a shot, and wont cost much either. The rotor may be slightly out of round and rubbing at a certain high point as it turns.

But if it really is a clicking sound, its got to be something flimsy hitting the rotor, that's why my money is on a retention/pressure clip for the brake pad. Keep us posted how it turns out.

-Pat
 
#22 ·
The only suggestion I could make is that I apply the anti-squeal to the caliper instead of the pad so it will only get it on the pad at the contact points. Makes it a little bit cleaner. Another great write up though Junior!
 
#27 ·
I too, have that playing card in the spoke sound. I am also thinking it is the clips. I am going to pull them apart and squeeze/tweak them as Junior suggests. I think the clips are rattling as the rotor skips off the pads. I have the GS-6 pads from Satisfied, and they didn't make this sound before the first set. I changed them out as I got new rotors and wanted to have new pads bed in on new rotors. I definitely remember squeezing them the first time, but not the second. I also used the CRC red stuff......I will let you all know....great thread.
 
#28 ·
As a junior member I'll say right now I mite be wrong on this.
I had a 300 with a similar situation. Removed the pads and found the leading edge of the shoes were past there factory bevel so had a sharp leading edge which caused this small squeal when light pressure was applied. Ground a small 45 degree angle all around the shoe, reinstalled and never heard it again.
Hope you can understand this ramble and good luck.
 
#29 ·
Squeak .. No Squeak ... Squeak ... turn up the radio

HELLO ALL !!!

I just joined the forum. I have used this forum a few times to find solutions for repairs on my girlfriend's Charger. I wanted to share my experiences with her car so I can (hopefully) help others out. I was a mechanic in the Army for a while and usually do all my own work on my vehicles. I have owned a few other vehicles and enjoy "tinkering" and take pride in doing things myself.

My girlfriend has a 2006 Dodge Charger R/T "Top Banana" Daytona. I am struggling with SQUEAKY BRAKES. "I feel like there should be a support group for this issue."

Here is a list of what I have done:

1) Pulled the calipers apart, cleaned the dust off of everything and repainted the calipers with black engine paint. Cleaned the rear of the pads and sprayed the contact areas of the back of the pads with CRC anti-squeak spray. Installed new caliper stud seals and new brake pad retaining clips from NAPA (front and rear) as everything comes in the kits we got.

2) Cleaned / Wire brushed the rotor hubs and painted them with engine paint to match. We live in Florida and it rains quite a bit. I figured anything I could do to keep the rust to a minimum would be to my advantage in stopping the torture (squeaking).

3) Painted the contact surface of the hubs with high temp anti-seize before I installed the rotors. I used less on the rear hubs, but still gave each hub a generous coating.

4) I used a wire brush to clean off the dust & rust from everything on the calipers, the pads and the rotors. When I reassembled everything was clean or freshly painted with the exception of the retaining clips which were new.

5) Reassembled the brakes with the rotors and pads I took off. I replaced the rear rotors and pads less than 8,000 miles ago, and I replaced the front rotors & pads about 10,000 miles ago. As much as they cost, we are getting our money out of them.

The horrible squeaking went away for about 2 days. Now it has started to creep back into our lives. The pads and rotors on the car are factory replacements from NAPA. Braking performance on the car is normal. The brakes do not squeak under hard braking. The squeak is more prominent when there is just moderate braking.

My next plan of attack is going to be investing in some cross drilled / slotted rotors and upgrade my brake pad selection. I have found everything mentioned in this post and others on Summit Racing.

Has anyone used Summit's cross-drilled and slotted rotors?
They are cheaper than the factory spec NAPA Rotors we got a few months ago, and (IMHO) would help with the squeaking.

What pads would be best for the cross drilled rotors?

I have read others' posts on this forum and other forums where owners take their Chargers to trusted mechanics / dealership service departments and have a new set of brakes installed only to be disappointed in a few miles or a few days as the squeaking returns. I even read one post where the service manager told the owner, "Your Charger has High Performance brakes and they always squeak." His response to that was, "My friends have Porsches, Jags and a Viper and NONE of their brakes squeak ... I am going to play golf."

I welcome ANY and ALL comments and questions. I am here to help others and learn from others.

THANK YOU
 
#30 ·
Hi Matt! :wave:
Did you follow the procedure for bedding your brakes? That usually helps, but it's one of those things that you do have to do periodically to keep the brakes quiet. In the first post in this thread it's also recommended to bend the anti-rattle clips a little to keep tension on the pads.

I've had several different brands of pads and rotors on this car over the last 8 years and I have yet to come up with a combination that stays quiet for more than a couple months at a time. :(