No worse than you.
Difference, I don't buy his products.
And I don't make threads saying I'm leaving.
Except for the fact that I've never posted libelous comments about anyone here especially a paying forum vendor. Or can't you tell the difference?
New favorite word now?
COOL! Then you admit you have zero knowledge of his products and you're just posting libelous comments! Awesome!
Okay, I'll take this bait on this silly statement. Just because one does not buy a product does not mean they have zero knowledge of it as you have put it. Otherwise I've never bought a Chevy, so means I know nothing on them even though I've helped and built several forms of SBCs, done countless hours of work on older corvettes, and trucks Never bought a Vintage Jeep before, but once again I must not know anything even though I have restored several and rebuilt quite a few engines for customers with 100 percent success. Shoot never bought a T28 Trojan before, and even though I know nothing once again I've got several hours of backseat flight time, have started the B Model with the Wright 1820 Radial by my little dumbself, and lead a small team under supervision of A/P on installation of a A model Wright R1300 Radial on to the air frame and then requested to help with work on it due ot my in depth notes, photos and knowledge on the work. I also got to fly on second flight but I had no knowledge. Never bought a APC/Tank either but hey taking care of one personally for 4 plus years don't mean anything in mangomans world. Shoot I couldn't tell you anything about a Rolls Royce K0 Power pack or how to break track apart.
71GTX was perma banned, he didn't go anywhere willingly. His warning arrived and moments afterwards his being banned.
He got banned cause he actually made personal insults as well as did not have much to back his arguments. He argued just to complain without much other posts it seemed. They were pure *****ing to me honestly. I have not made any personal insults, only questioned.
Nobody is shouting you down. You have made a business decision not to get your products certified for the uses that you are advertising. The onus is on you to prove that they meet the challenge and to provide some level of comfort to those who rightfully fear being refused warranty coverage if they suffer component failure. You can call me names, ignore the terms of service of the forums that we're now reading, and wave your hands all you want, but the bottom line is that your products are not certified by any recognized body to show that they are suitable for the purposes that you're claiming. That, as you would say, is a fact.Our posts may be unwanted by some and yet appreciated by so many more who don't want to be shouted down when they purchase from us.
Nor do you make any money off of any of this. Neither do I. Just calling 'em like I see 'em. It is telling that one side of this argument seems to constantly resort to name calling and personal attacks. I wonder why....No worse than you.
Difference, I don't buy his products.
And I don't make threads saying I'm leaving.
I will have a better day when you can show us all here the warranty rejections due to our lubricants....engine oils and transmission fluids and differential oils and the failures that have been produced where we ran away and were sued due to false claims you are claiming we are doing. If not, then it is Libel and you need to be careful!Nobody is shouting you down. You have made a business decision not to get your products certified for the uses that you are advertising. The onus is on you to prove that they meet the challenge and to provide some level of comfort to those who rightfully fear being refused warranty coverage if they suffer component failure.
This is the straw man argument you continue to bring up. ..........Oh my gosh, if you use BND Automotive products, you could be damaging your vehicle!!!!! They are an unknown uncertified company that is not proven at all!
That is BS and you know it. You are the one scaring people and dissuading people hoping we will dry up or something.
19 years in business as BND Automotive LLC.........39 years in the lubricant industry.......worked for a 5 billion dollar company with GM, Ford, Chrysler and Honda......been a vendor here for 10 years. 18,000 + Hemi vehicles using our products. 100,000,000+ customer driven miles and not one failure!
Those too are facts! We have made fluids for ZF transmissions for over 14 years and 7 years for all the 8HP transmissions. Where are all the warranty claims for our fluids?? Where is all the damage to these units? Show all of us ONE!! YOU CAN'T These too are facts.
You can call me names,
I didn't call you names, I called out your actions in posts and your false statements.....you see.....actions are not you....they are separate! This is how foolish your logic is.
ignore the terms of service of the forums that we're now reading,
You are once again in error here too! We have the right as a paying vendor to suggest our technologies in posts when a question is asked. We politely gave a suggestion and you jumped on it. You do not have the right to tell me and others that what we did here is wrong and Autoguide supports our suggesting things in posts where a question is asked. Get over it!
and wave your hands all you want, but the bottom line is that your products are not certified by any recognized body to show that they are suitable for the purposes that you're claiming.
Here is another false assertion......certification is a product has passed performance tests and quality assurance tests, and meets qualification criteria. This is testing in a laboratory with the goal of predicting what will happen in real world applications. It helps you predict what the product will most likely do in the real world.
All that goes out the window with on the road real life testing done in real world situations. This has already been done over and over again by thousands of people. Certification is before real world use and real world then determines the true outcome. That is why we put out oil analysis of the different lubricants which certify and verify the quality. Oil Analysis professionals and analysts can get certified in compliance with ISO standards by passing exams administered by the International Council for Machinery Lubrication (ICML).
Every time an oil analysis is performed, it is certified by the lab and certified by the lab technician too. These too are facts.
That, as you would say, is a fact.
Have a great day.
**yawn**I will have a better day when you can show us all here the warranty rejections due to our lubricants....engine oils and transmission fluids and differential oils and the failures that have been produced where we ran away and were sued due to false claims you are claiming we are doing. If not, then it is Libel and you need to be careful!
As Mangoman said.....still waiting for those failures!:serious:
The ultimate defense for "libel" is the truth. You have already admitted that your products are not certified so my statement there is true. I haven't made any claim at all about the quality of your products...only that they are not certified by any standards body or vendor certification. If they are certified to meet the specifications for which you're recommending them, all you need to do is show that. Then I simply asked you for your warranty in the event that FCA refuses a claim. You dance around it, but offer nothing in the way of a warranty that I've seen. Again, what exactly will you do if a customer's claim is denied? It's a simple question that you have refused to answer, but have instead followed up with pages of diatribe. You could put this to bed easily by simply answering the question rather than ratcheting up your rhetoric.
Ok, I will play your game a little bit. We keep our cards close to the vest except for our customers!
Customer buys our products, and there is a failure in the unit. If it is under warranty, the warranty will cover any failure that occurs during the warranty period. We would provide receipts to the customer if he or she doesn't have their original and then work with the customer to make sure that they are taken care of officially and legally by the manufacturer. If there is any push back, we would demand an oil analysis from the engine or transmission, or differential or cooling system and have it 3rd party evaluated. The lab would then be able to ascertain whether it was a lubricant failure or a parts, materials and workmanship issue. This is the type of warranty that Mopar and all other companies have. If we still get push back from the dealership and will interface directly with the dealership and remind them of the laws and corporation if necessary. If there is still denial then we would then get our lawyers involved and go from there.
If it is out of warranty, we would still do an oil analysis to determine what was in the oil and go from there. If the oil has 6% gasoline in it for instance, then it was a fuel injector issue that damaged the engine and not our lubricants for example. We provide cogent documentation of our process and it's quality to prove it isn't a formulate issue but a parts, materials or workmanship issue.
This of course has never happened with anyone in over 18,000 customers in any system we were involved with for the last 19 years. So again, it is a straw man argument but I answered it for you!
There is no real warranty on any oils and you can put Mobil's warranty out there but they have exclusions that null and void the "warranty" that they have right on it's face. Good luck ever getting Mobil or any other company to admit that it was a "lubricant failure". Right in the claims they will pay if it is a lubricant failure.....but most likely they will argue that it isn't.
They will also invoke the other parts you didn't post:
This limited warranty excludes:
Mobil™-branded lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation; negligence; abuse; damage from casualty, shipment or accident; or, equipment modification done without written authorization from the original equipment manufacturer (OEM).
This covers catch cans, cold air intakes, tunes, exhausts, camshafts, gears, and modifications of any kind!
Situations where the OEM required lubricant standards do not match those stated by ExxonMobil without written approval from ExxonMobil.
This is for the OEM requiring a lower standard than Mobil and not the oil manufacturer.....better read it again!
Mobil lubricants that have been used in conjunction with any other product or additive that has not been authorized for use by ExxonMobil.
That negates any other oil other than Mobil if it was ever used in the engine right here on it's face! Oh, you used Pennzoil, or Quaker State or Lucas etc. You won't win on that one either.
Failure of equipment due to a pre-existing condition that is unrelated to the use of Mobil lubricants.
This is another one that Mobil will use to say...hey, it was a pre-existing condition......no warranty!
Repair or replacement of equipment due to normal wear
This one here clears the whole thing up. If they can't deny on the earlier ones, they can say...oh that is just normal wear for the mileage of xxxxxx.
Like I said, there is no warranty on oils really and that includes us.
Here's an example of a clearly stated warranty statement:
"What the Limited Warranty Does Not Cover: Situations where the OEM required lubricant standards do not match those stated by ExxonMobil without written approval from ExxonMobil."
Again, situations where the OEM required lubricant standards do not match those stated by ExxonMobil without written approval from ExxonMobil.
This is for the OEM like Chrysler or Ford requiring a lower standard than Mobil and not the oil manufacturer.....better read it again! Oh and no manufacturer requires any lubricants. Read it again.....recommends!
So Exxon has made it crystal clear what they will do if there is a mismatch between OEM standards and those claimed by their product. If you could kindly clarify your business' warranty, that would be great. No personal attacks needed. A simple posting or link to your warranty is all I'm asking for.
Yes, Exxon/Mobil makes it perfectly clear that you purchase their products and if there is a problem they can point to the exclusions and get out of anything but a murder! This once again is BS and your inability to understand legality.
There is no warranty on oils and there never will be!
Finally. Now was that hard? So you have an undocumented "warranty" process that you've now revealed to the buying public. I don't know why you didn't just say so from the beginning.......playing "the game"...
That's why!Finally. Now was that hard? So you have an undocumented "warranty" process that you've now revealed to the buying public. I don't know why you didn't just say so from the beginning....
It is not that it was hard, but that it was unnecessary as it has never happened and frankly never will. If there is a failure, it won't be oil or fuel related. When Andy's camshaft there in Hawaii cracked in half, they brought the car in and ascertained the problem. The camshaft had hydrogen embrittlement and that caused the failure. They were fully aware of him using our QuantumBlue and did not have a problem as he kept the mileage to 10,000 miles between changes. He has been using our QuantumBlue Lubricants and our ACES IV since his 2007 Charger R/T and has never looked back. They didn't give him any noise and covered it under the normal terms of the warranty. He has since sold that car and is using ACES IV and QuantumBlue in is 2017 Daytona R/T 5.7L. We don't have this scary experience you are trying to paint for us or our customers! Oh, by the way, Andy has been purchasing from us for 10 years as of 6 3 2019. He has purchased materials from us 32 times over the years!
If we follow your assertion that "there is no real warranty in your industry" to its natural conclusion then that would seem to dictate that people strictly follow what is explicitly recommended while under the manufacturer warranty period. We all know that auto dealers can (and DO) occasionally weasel out of warranty responsibility at the drop of a hat so I don't understand why anyone who is reliant on a warranty would go the route of fluids that aren't explicitly recommended during the warranty time frame. Why give them that excuse?
Well, since you are at this point accepting our premise.....which is wise on your part.....then it logically follows that the dealership really isn't your friend and is not concerned about the longevity of the units anyway so it then also follows that it is up to the owner......our customer in some cases.....to take logical and intelligent steps to protect himself/herself from the known propensity of the dealership having this proclivity for rejection.
So, in that same vein, we teach our customers about what to look for, what to watch out for and advise them including oil analysis. We have them change their differential fluids at 3,500 miles or so to flush out break-in shavings. We have them change their oil in the engine about about 1,500 miles during break-in, flush their coolant out after 10,000 miles and do the transmission at or around 40,000 miles. We have them use ACES IV in the fuel as soon as they get the vehicles and set them on a course of protection and increased longevity right from the beginning. No granted, they don't always come to us when they are new, so we ascertain where they are in the wear cycle and adjust the materials to their particular needs, mileage and mods etc.
It isn't a make a sale mentality. It is partnering with our customers and acting as a consultant for their betterment. We have customers that are 3 and 4 cars down the line that continue to work with us because we have never lied to them and our products perform with the Oil Analysis to back it up.
Eugene Erlikh left a testimonial on our website two months ago and it really encompasses what the thousands of customers we have feel about the experiences with us.
"I’ve been using Quantum Blue and ACES since 2011. Used on a 2011 and 2014 Dodge Charger. My engine runs better than when I bought the cars. My mechanics are always impressed with how well my engines run at 100,000+ miles. If you have deep care and appreciation for your vehicle, and want it to run efficiently, BND is the best in the market.
I have sent in oil samples of Quantum Blue after 11,000 (yes that is eleven thousand) miles in my car. The samples show less deposits and wear than even the best motor oil after just a few thousand miles. I’ve tried synthetic oil such as Royal Purple and can definitively say that Quantum Blue has a distinct difference of quality.
I love visiting Death Valley National Park, especially in the summer. I have had the opportunity recently to test Quantum Blue vs. a premium synthetic oil. The temperatures outside reached 128°F. I’m sure the pavement was dozens of degrees hotter. With Quantum Blue, the oil temperature reached maximum 220°. The synthetic oil would reach 240-280°.
That’s a huge difference.
The price of BND products reflects their incredible quality. If you plan on keeping your engine in excellent condition, these guys are the way to go. Thanks for giving me almost 10 years of great service, Brian!
Or what Nui Tofiga said:
I have been using BND Automotive Products since I had my 2007 Dodge Charger. Starting with 21,000 miles I ended up in 6 years putting the odometer up to 244033 miles by the time I traded it in on my first Camaro. Which was a 2013 Camaro that had 31 thousand miles on it. And 2 years time that car was at 102,000 miles. fast forward to right now I'm in a 2016 Camaro that had 40 miles on it when I bought it brand new and now I'm up to 73,000 Miles as of today.
I've used everything from the quantum blue engine oil, to Aces four, the red tackified gear lube, and on the charger I had the steering pump catalyst.
so far I haven't been steered wrong with any lubrication needs when it comes to cars by going through BND automotive. And for those that are still skeptical and would like proof simply try it out for an oil change and then get an oil analysis done afterwards. I've gotten an oil analysis done for every third oil change so you can see what's actually going on with in your engine.
I'll ignore the snide remarks. Thanks for finally answering the question.
Well, then that's something we'll just have to disagree on. You can't state that something will not happen. You have no way of knowing that. Risk cannot be eliminated...only managed. If you're up front about what recourse people have if they use a product that's not certified to meet the specs documented by FCA, and those people still proceed (or simply don't care if FCA warrants anything....I would be in that category, actually), then it's on them if something breaks and a dealer tells them to get lost.That's why!
We will continue to make people aware of what our products are and keep them informed about what quality they are getting and will continue to do oil analysis to prove the real world validity of our blends.Well, then that's something we'll just have to disagree on. You can't state that something will not happen. You have no way of knowing that. Risk cannot be eliminated...only managed.
It is true that you can not know whether a system will fail in a vehicle. However, you can provide a lubricant material into that system that......given parts, materials and workmanship is sound......will significantly increase the life of and prevent premature failure of that system. When I state we have had no failures, it means that of the few times there was an issue....maybe 3 times....it was determined as a parts, materials or workmanship issue and not with the lubricants being singled out as the cause. Other than those maybe 3, of the 18,000 + customers using our compounds, they continue running their vehicles as prescribed by us and they do not have problems with the units or what we manufacture for them.
If you're up front about what recourse people have if they use a product that's not certified to meet the specs documented by FCA, and those people still proceed (or simply don't care if FCA warrants anything....I would be in that category, actually), then it's on them if something breaks and a dealer tells them to get lost.
The thing is we make sure of is........all our customers are aware about the products they are purchasing in detail.
So our lubricant designs are greater than and better than equal to the specifications recommended by FCA So >and more than = to the specifications and validated by oil analysis constantly. To say our products do not meet the specs is to make it seem like they are less than and not equal to the recommendations from FCA and that would be in error! < and not = to is flat out wrong.
The other thing that doesn't make sense to me is you are concerned about our products for use when in reality.......by your own admission.......you don't care about the warranty is a real dichotomy to me.
Almost like a person holding up a sign at a protest rally that you don't really care about the issue! Strange.
Someone should sticky your explanation above in your vendor forum so folks know EXACTLY what they are signing up for.
The communication we have from ZF says 80,000 km to 120,000 km (49,709 miles to 74,564 miles)I wonder why the 8 speed has shorter fluid changes than the NAG1 5 speed? For the 5 speed you only change the fluid at 50,000 miles if using your vehicle for any of the following: police, taxi, fleet, off-road, or frequent trailer towing. Otherwise it is recommended at 120,000 according to my owners manual.