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Does anyone know if all the different engines for the charger use the same transmission? I realize it's always the A580, but does it always use the same parts? Coming from GM, the 4L60e transmission came in 2 flavors, and had different torque ratings. I was just wondering if anyone knew if the same holds true for Dodge, or are all the trannies identical? I haven't been able to make much sense of the Dodge website yet.
 

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Good question,
At first I would think it would be cheaper to make them all the same. If the production numbers are high enough they would probably save a few bucks per trans with cheaper internal parts.
GM produced a lot of those transmissions.
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The transmissions are sourced from mercedes and can handle A LOT of horsepower. The diffrences are in the rear end as to what the vehicle can handle. As an example; in this months Car & Driver they test a sl65 amg mercedes that makes like 638 h.p. and 700 plus lbs/ft of torque, it runs the same trans as the Charger and the gearing is identical, except for the rear end, which is strengthened and is only a 2.68...The SRT-8 has the same trans, and a diffrent stronger rear end...
 

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A friend of mine works on MB, and just from the pic in the Charger book he recognized it. When I get mine I will have him look at it because it could be the same tranny as in the SLKs and such or they could have removed some clutch pads and such which would mean it couldn't handle as much power.

edward
 

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chargershed said:
The transmissions are sourced from mercedes and can handle A LOT of horsepower. The diffrences are in the rear end as to what the vehicle can handle. As an example; in this months Car & Driver they test a sl65 amg mercedes that makes like 638 h.p. and 700 plus lbs/ft of torque, it runs the same trans as the Charger and the gearing is identical, except for the rear end, which is strengthened and is only a 2.68...The SRT-8 has the same trans, and a diffrent stronger rear end...
Looks like it is a stronger transmission than the GM 4l60e........Has anyone added a shift kit (larger valve body and servos) to this transmission yet?
 

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I work for an M-B dealer and the there are no mods avalible for the tranny...shifting quality is accomplished by using duty cycle controlled solenoids in the valve body. New software is the only way to change shift quality and timing. The trans is specified as an W5A580 meaning 5-5 speeds, A-auto, 580-torque capacity in newton meters. The normally asperated M-B V8's used this box until the new 7 speed arrived. V6 and 4 cyl mercedes used the W5A350 trans witch has fewer cluthes in each pack nad deeper gearing in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears. From the outside, they both look the same. This is a different unit that those used in AMG's.

The rear diff is shared with the mercedes E-class cars and is not the same one used on AMG tuned vehicles.
 

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amcguru said:
I work for an M-B dealer and the there are no mods avalible for the tranny...shifting quality is accomplished by using duty cycle controlled solenoids in the valve body. New software is the only way to change shift quality and timing. The trans is specified as an W5A580 meaning 5-5 speeds, A-auto, 580-torque capacity in newton meters. The normally asperated M-B V8's used this box until the new 7 speed arrived. V6 and 4 cyl mercedes used the W5A350 trans witch has fewer cluthes in each pack nad deeper gearing in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears. From the outside, they both look the same. This is a different unit that those used in AMG's.

The rear diff is shared with the mercedes E-class cars and is not the same one used on AMG tuned vehicles.

580 newton meter = 427.7860454 pound foot

so a supercharged hemi is passed the torque rating of this tranny?
 

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Acording to M-B, yes. Keep in mind that the torque rating is based on what the manufacturer feels will survive throughout the vehicles designed service life on a trans that they say never needs a service. I have never seen one just "wear out" in any vehicle, only hard part failures once in a blue moon most likely due to and assembly or manufacturing defect.
 

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amcguru said:
Acording to M-B, yes. Keep in mind that the torque rating is based on what the manufacturer feels will survive throughout the vehicles designed service life on a trans that they say never needs a service. I have never seen one just "wear out" in any vehicle, only hard part failures once in a blue moon most likely due to and assembly or manufacturing defect.
Which puzzles me...the SRT-8'S use the same transmission, and at 420 ft/lbs is right at the upper most torque spec for the trans. seems they are taking quite a risk, unless the trans is already upgraded for this type of use...DCx calls this transmission the NAG1...it is built in the u.s., is a mercedes design (the 5a580) but has it's own h.p. and torque limits, which are higher than the 5a580...it does share gear ratio's with the AMG cars, but they are slightly diffrent...didn't have my facts straight with my earlier post, sorry guys!
 

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Seem like some of the tech. papers I read on the 300 SRT stated that the AMG modified trans and trans brain were used for this application. AMG trannies are much like AMG engines...they started with a standard issue unit and massaged it to meet there every desire and put the thing into production. M-B identifies the turbo V12's as having an A580, but we all know better. M-B felt it would make sense to open a chrysler opperated trans assembly plant here in the US seeing as how the ML's are build here in adition to the LX body cars. Now that the ML uses the new 7 speed, chrysler has taken over full use of this plant's production.
 

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Hey, if these are made in Kokomo, I think I know somebody there, any idea?
 

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GLHS837 said:
Hey, if these are made in Kokomo, I think I know somebody there, any idea?
How would I know if you know, you know? kokomo, stub my toe...
bermuda, bahama, come on pet my lama... :whistle:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
chargershed said:
Which puzzles me...the SRT-8'S use the same transmission, and at 420 ft/lbs is right at the upper most torque spec for the trans. seems they are taking quite a risk, unless the trans is already upgraded for this type of use...DCx calls this transmission the NAG1...it is built in the u.s., is a mercedes design (the 5a580) but has it's own h.p. and torque limits, which are higher than the 5a580...it does share gear ratio's with the AMG cars, but they are slightly diffrent...didn't have my facts straight with my earlier post, sorry guys!
I think you're misunderstanding what he's saying - 580 Nm's is what the trans is rated as being able to take for the entire life of the car. If you build a monster engine and deliver 600 ft/lbs on a regular basis, the tranny won't break - but it will wear out faster.

As far as changing the programming being the only way to affect shifts, I'd reserve judgement on that. The 4L60e does the same thing, yet you can change springs to adjust line pressure and modify the valve body to quicken shifts. I'd be willing to bet some enterprising individual will be selling shift kits that work as well or better than software changes within a year. The 300c guys are a lot like the caddy guys - they don't really modify their cars all that much. On the other hand, the impala guys are. If this crowd turns out to be anything like the impala club, there will be Chargers in the 11's within a year and 10's in two years.
 

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chargershed said:
How would I know if you know, you know? kokomo, stub my toe...
bermuda, bahama, come on pet my lama... :whistle:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2001/10/01/030343.html

Ah!!!! Got it in one :happy:

Now if I can just remember which member of xxxxxxx.com was a worker at the Kokomo plant, I think I do.......... I'll be back......

Sorry for the edit, if he wants to be anon, this should help with that :wink:
 

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well seeing as how according to the window sticker of some chargers (viewable through dodge.com search dealer inventory) the final assembly is brampton, the engine is from mexico, and the trany is from germany....



PARTS CONTENT INFORMATION
FOR VEHICLES IN THIS CARLINE:
U.S./CANADIAN PARTS CONTENT: 74%

NOTE: PARTS CONTENT DOES NOT INCLUDE FINAL ASSEMBLY, DISTRIBUTION, OR OTHER NON-PARTS COSTS.
FOR THIS VEHICLE:
FINAL ASSEMBLY POINT:
BRAMPTON, ONTARIO, CANADA
COUNTRY OF ORIGIN:
ENGINE: MEXICO
TRANSMISSION: GERMANY
 

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Ah, sure enough, I sent a message to him, maybe he'll share, if he's involved in this trans, they doa few there.
 

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Stonebreaker said:
I think you're misunderstanding what he's saying - 580 Nm's is what the trans is rated as being able to take for the entire life of the car. If you build a monster engine and deliver 600 ft/lbs on a regular basis, the tranny won't break - but it will wear out faster.

As far as changing the programming being the only way to affect shifts, I'd reserve judgement on that. The 4L60e does the same thing, yet you can change springs to adjust line pressure and modify the valve body to quicken shifts. I'd be willing to bet some enterprising individual will be selling shift kits that work as well or better than software changes within a year. The 300c guys are a lot like the caddy guys - they don't really modify their cars all that much. On the other hand, the impala guys are. If this crowd turns out to be anything like the impala club, there will be Chargers in the 11's within a year and 10's in two years.
One thing the German's do best is over-engeneer things...this trans in the perfect example. The unit is fully adaptable to both driving style and wear within the unit and adjusts shift pressures as needed to opperate within it's given software parameters. Based on turbine shaft and output shaft speed, the controller monitors how long in milliseconds it takes to complete each gear shift compared to the specified shift timing and adapts shift solenoid duty cycling and line pressure as needed to meet the shift quality written into the software. Once wear or mods. performed on the trans excede what the trans can adapt to, the control unit assumes internal failure, sets troubled codes, and can enter limp mode...this means you have reverse, 2nd or 3rd depending on the year and application, and full line pressure. Under this condition, just putting the car in gear at idle will bark the tires...kind of cool for us gearheads. I can hook-up a scan tool to one of these cars and tell you just how worn each clutch pack is...the trans is simply too smart to have any fun with. While the 4L80e, 4L60e, 46RE, A4OD all electronicly control shift timing and line pressure, they still use accumulators to dampen apply rates...not so in the M-B units. The German's just had to show everyone just how smart they are. On a positive note, this is an excellent trans...the only problem they are known for is leaking around the electrical connector...two o-rings that take two minuets to replace.
 

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Had a blast with the AutoStick Transmission tonight... Love it! I also found a link from the Dodge Support Center on how the Autostick computer software was completely retuned for max performance on the Charger vs the standard tuning for the Magnum and 300.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
amcguru said:
One thing the German's do best is over-engeneer things...this trans in the perfect example. The unit is fully adaptable to both driving style and wear within the unit and adjusts shift pressures as needed to opperate within it's given software parameters. Based on turbine shaft and output shaft speed, the controller monitors how long in milliseconds it takes to complete each gear shift compared to the specified shift timing and adapts shift solenoid duty cycling and line pressure as needed to meet the shift quality written into the software. Once wear or mods. performed on the trans excede what the trans can adapt to, the control unit assumes internal failure, sets troubled codes, and can enter limp mode...this means you have reverse, 2nd or 3rd depending on the year and application, and full line pressure. Under this condition, just putting the car in gear at idle will bark the tires...kind of cool for us gearheads. I can hook-up a scan tool to one of these cars and tell you just how worn each clutch pack is...the trans is simply too smart to have any fun with. While the 4L80e, 4L60e, 46RE, A4OD all electronicly control shift timing and line pressure, they still use accumulators to dampen apply rates...not so in the M-B units. The German's just had to show everyone just how smart they are. On a positive note, this is an excellent trans...the only problem they are known for is leaking around the electrical connector...two o-rings that take two minuets to replace.
Hmm, that's definitely a drawback. First the computer is too complex to crack, and now the tranny can't be modified. As nice as this car is, I'm beginning to lose interest in it.
 
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