Damn this awesome info(spectacular and probably mind blowing to those guys at the shop) made me miss this pale redhead i was checking out, yum!
Racing Fuel in a 598 V8 vs 91 octane fuel + ACES IV on a dyno
Outside the Charger Forums we also work with customers that have very high performance engines.
Racing fuels are generally used in these big block engines. However, due to the price of fuel they require ($9.00 per gallon +) to run them, people have been looking for ways to continue to enjoy these high performance engines (in cars and boats) but without the high cost of the fuels needed to run them..
Word of mouth and the internet have brought a lot of these people to us to inquire about ACES IV. In the last year we have picked up over 1500 customers who have now abandoned the use of racing fuels and are now using pump fuels and ACES IV. One of our customers said it best:
“I am tired of financing my weekends!” and “ I am also tired of dumping half my paycheck into the gas tank!”
So, last Friday, one of them was working with a Chevy 598 V8. He has traditionally used racing fuel in this engine. He made an appointment with the dyno shop running a Super Flow SF902 dyno.
http://www.superflow.com/Dynamometers/Engine/sf902.html
The guys there favor racing fuel and feel that these fuels are the best as producing power and torque. When my customer brought them the engine, he wanted to baseline on 110 octane fuel and then wanted to test 91 octane fuel by itself, and then ACES IV in 91 octane fuel to have a full comparison between them.
The guys at the dyno saw the ACES IV and laughed at 1 oz per 6 gallons in 91 as having any chance of doing anything in the 598 compared to the 110.
What happened there created all kinds of questions as to what else we do including nitrous, alcohols (ethyl and methyl) as well as nitromethane and E85.
I was given copies of the dyno runs with 110, 91 and 91 with ACES IV for comparisons. I have authorization from the customer to share the results. I thought it would be good to post them here for review.
Here is the 598 on 110 race fuel. It produced Max 805 hp, 769.2 torque at a 13.5 A/F Ratio
Here is the 598 on 91 octane pump fuel. It produced Max 798.6 hp, 760.9 torque at a 14.6 A/F Ratio
Here is the 598 on 91 octane pump fuel + ACES IV. It produced Max 807.1 hp, 776.3 torque at a 14.7 A/F Ratio
The Racing Fuel is $9.00 per gallon. The 91 was $3.80 per gallon and adding ACES IV made the total price $4.152 per gallon. The ACES IV produced 2.2 hp and 7.1 torque MORE than the racing fuel! It also produced 8.5 more hp and 15.4 torque MORE than the 91 octane alone!
So using 91 and ACES IV in this case would produce more power, more torque and save $4.848 per gallon doing it (53.9% less than racing fuel).
Entitled to your own opinions but not entitled to your own facts!
Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
Racing fuels are generally used in these big block engines. However, due to the price of fuel they require ($9.00 per gallon +) to run them, people have been looking for ways to continue to enjoy these high performance engines (in cars and boats) but without the high cost of the fuels needed to run them..
Word of mouth and the internet have brought a lot of these people to us to inquire about ACES IV. In the last year we have picked up over 1500 customers who have now abandoned the use of racing fuels and are now using pump fuels and ACES IV. One of our customers said it best:
“I am tired of financing my weekends!” and “ I am also tired of dumping half my paycheck into the gas tank!”
So, last Friday, one of them was working with a Chevy 598 V8. He has traditionally used racing fuel in this engine. He made an appointment with the dyno shop running a Super Flow SF902 dyno.
http://www.superflow.com/Dynamometers/Engine/sf902.html
The guys there favor racing fuel and feel that these fuels are the best as producing power and torque. When my customer brought them the engine, he wanted to baseline on 110 octane fuel and then wanted to test 91 octane fuel by itself, and then ACES IV in 91 octane fuel to have a full comparison between them.
The guys at the dyno saw the ACES IV and laughed at 1 oz per 6 gallons in 91 as having any chance of doing anything in the 598 compared to the 110.
What happened there created all kinds of questions as to what else we do including nitrous, alcohols (ethyl and methyl) as well as nitromethane and E85.
I was given copies of the dyno runs with 110, 91 and 91 with ACES IV for comparisons. I have authorization from the customer to share the results. I thought it would be good to post them here for review.
Here is the 598 on 110 race fuel. It produced Max 805 hp, 769.2 torque at a 13.5 A/F Ratio
Here is the 598 on 91 octane pump fuel. It produced Max 798.6 hp, 760.9 torque at a 14.6 A/F Ratio
Here is the 598 on 91 octane pump fuel + ACES IV. It produced Max 807.1 hp, 776.3 torque at a 14.7 A/F Ratio
The Racing Fuel is $9.00 per gallon. The 91 was $3.80 per gallon and adding ACES IV made the total price $4.152 per gallon. The ACES IV produced 2.2 hp and 7.1 torque MORE than the racing fuel! It also produced 8.5 more hp and 15.4 torque MORE than the 91 octane alone!
So using 91 and ACES IV in this case would produce more power, more torque and save $4.848 per gallon doing it (53.9% less than racing fuel).
Entitled to your own opinions but not entitled to your own facts!
Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
3
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MMT is the additive in these off the shelf boosters. MMT (Methyl cyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl) is a metal that doesn't burn but plate in the cylinders leaving your plugs impossible to read and also leaves the residue to polish your cylinders. You would get the same effect on your cylinders by pouring jewlers rouge in the intake!
But for the sake of discussion, lets just assume it does do what you say.
As many chemists know, these products have a diminishing effect on higher-octane fuels. Adding the same product to 87-octane pump gas will produce a lot more gain than adding a bottle to 91-octane premium.
Too much of MMT will also damage emissions-control hardware, including spark plugs, injectors, up stream and down stream oxygen sensors and converters. This is why off-the-shelf additives have an emissions component safe formula and an off-road formula due to the concentration of MMT. Anyone who uses these additives really have is no point in using them in 87octane gas. The street version octane booster from your local parts store is a waste of time.
Now, using your example of 32 oz in 5 gallons to get 105 octane fuel with pump gas it is $20.95. $20.95 div by 5 = $4.19 per gallon. So 1 tank of Torco that damages the every day car would cost you an extra $80.45 to get 105 octane!!!
Wow and ACES IV did it for $6.76 PER TANK!!! So your Torco would treat one tank and the same price for the Torco would treat 11.9 tanks of gasoline using ACES IV!! So putting it another way, 192 gallons of ACES treated fuel is $67.60. 192 gallons of Torco treated fuel is $804.48. 1 gallon of ACES IV treats 770 gallons for $234.00 770 gallons of torco would be $3226.30. Anyone can see my point here!
The 598 by the way was 11.1 to 1 and the 110 was VP-110 leaded not oxygenated. So it did have the compression ratio to translate the race fuel and the street fuel.
As far as you using ACES IV, 1 eight oz bottle would start to clean your fuel system and your engine! If you are running the fuel trim fatter and you add ACES IV to it, it won't appear to do anything and actually hamper your economy both from being too rich and also from dropping carbon deposits into the mixture as well. We all know extra carbon hampers combustion.
We offered you an opportunity to openly bring your tuner and put your car on the dyno, add ACES IV and the dyno would prove it or disprove it with a 3rd party dynojet operator to be the referee.......FOR FREE! Again, you refused!
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
Maybe you missed David Vizards 250 hour back to back tests on 2 engines....1 with 91 octane fuel and 1 with 91 octane fuel and ACES IV:
"I did some 250 hours of A-to-B tests on this additive about 15 years ago for an EPA report and found that in a worst-case scenario for the test engines concerned, ring and bore wear was axed by no less than 600 percent!
............. this additive.........ACES must be mixed in very low concentrations with the fuel. When the combustion cycle takes place, the additive burns into a high-grade synthetic lube that coats the cylinder walls from the topside down with a lube layer just a few molecules thick."
"Remember, on the way down, the rings scrape much of the oil off the bores. The lube component is spread thinly on the bores with this additive, so on the way up, pistons and rings should not, even touch the bores.
Over the years I have found this additive to he really effective at prolonging the life of rings and bores. Given a top-notch air filter, 2,000 racing miles result in near-zero wear on rings and bore"
It does do this!
I can't speak to the dyno HP other than it is what it is. 91 octane fuel with .35 over the price of pump gas in an 11.1 to 1 engine producing more power than $9.00 a gallon VP-110 is a good deal in anyones book!
A good scientist and evaluator doesn't argue with the data if it is good cogent data.
Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
2
You offered when I was 700 miles away.....of course I turned you down....lol.The 598 by the way was 11.1 to 1 and the 110 was VP-110 leaded not oxygenated. So it did have the compression ratio to translate the race fuel and the street fuel.
We offered you an opportunity to openly bring your tuner and put your car on the dyno, add ACES IV and the dyno would prove it or disprove it with a 3rd party dynojet operator to be the referee.......FOR FREE! Again, you refused!
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
As far as the compression ratio 11:1 is not worthy of 110 leaded race fuel. And you still haven't stated dynamic. With enough overlap the motor could run on 87. At 11:1 if the motor needed race fuel there should have been at least 50hp difference between race fuel and 91 oct. All I asked for were some supporting facts. Obviously you view that the same as bashing.
Congratulations, you found the formula that we do for oil drilling trucks and pipeline gasoline vehicles in the arctic and really cold temps. That is not what we make for the domestic market. What you found is for really really cold temps -60 deg C and below!
The domestic you are looking for is this:
This is the one that was dyno'd not the one you found for Canada!
Cherry would have made time for you as he told you. We would have worked around your schedule. After all, we did it for 6 months of 2011! I am sure you could have found some time in that time frame anyway!
It comes down to this. Racing fuel performance with pump gas at that little amount extra for ACES IV is still impressive. What is also impressive is that once people start using ACES IV in their cars, they return to buy multiple quarts and gallons 98% of the time!:beerchug:
Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
The 93 would have to be Shell and after May 5th. The E98 would be a different product than what you would use for the 93. E98 would need ACES IV-A and at somewhere between .5 oz per gallon and 2.3 oz per gallon. ACES IV would be at either 1 oz per 6 or 1 oz per 5 for lubricity using the blower.
Give me a call and we can talk about it Trev!:bigthumb:
Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
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