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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Had a small question for anyone to give their thoughts on.

Its basically in relation to exhaust setups, more geared towards the custom setups or the companies catering towards exhausts (blastin bob, exhaust depot, etc)

The main thing that most people on here have complained about is "drone" which is basically excess vibrations the occur at certain speeds.

The other issue i've seen peeps complain about is raspy notes at higher rpms, which for most, a simple fix is a decent sized resonator. but all a resonator is, is a "SUB-MUFFLER" or smaller muffler when you get to the bottom of it.

so heres the question. in replicating the stock setup, has anyone ever thought about (and this would be about the easiest way to do anything) just simply replacing the mufflers installed with Free flowing, straight through mufflers? even if you want to do "TRUE DUALS" you'd still be using 3 mufflers like its done on the v8's.

the two problems above occur when theres not enough muffler sound absorbing material to absorb the excess sound or sounds most people deter.

so for example, where the suitcase goes, used a relatively good sized dual in/dual out muffler (but straight through, i.e borla, magnaflow, remus). then where the STOCK mufflers usually reside near the rear bumper, setup another(or two depending if you do a true dual or single) smaller muffler to absorb the excess (drone) that isnt picked up by the first muffler.

dodge had to have it right when they did this BOTH on the single and dual setups on the 2.7 to the v8's. it works.

i mean i'm not sure what everyones goal is, obviously. some are just doing it for looks and dont care about the performance side of things.

myself i'm thinking about it from a performance/efficiency/and looks side of it.

both the magnaflow (bottom) and the mopar/borla (top) have the tri-muffler setups.





just seein what everyones views are, cause as of late, theres been a few people scarred out of doing their exhausts due to complaints about some of the setups custom done and from the vendors.

myself personally, am not trying to make my v6 sound like a v8 or anything else. i dont really believe in having excessively loud exhausts (and i'm young in my 20's) cause i know if you have the power, the power will make the noise, but if you alter something that makes alot of noise, it doesnt exactly mean you have something powerful.

as long as quality parts are used, such as borla, magnaflow, etc (basically the straight through free flowing companies) the setups offered are only as good as their design. its not exactly the mufflers being used, but possibly the lack of mufflers needed to build a setup to where theres no drone and or high pitched sounds...

just another option for people who havent done exhaust yet, to look into.

any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
25 views and no one has ANY thoughts, ideas, suggestions? etc?
 

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I think you might should have posted this in the Performance section of the forums since most (not all) V6 owners do not have that much experience with these type of things. Many are trying to obtain this information but I have not seen a lot of people that already know it since a lot of them did not buy the car for performance. I think that is why there are so many exhaust threads as it is but this is a good topic you brought up. I think you should put in the Performance section to get some opinions from the V8 guys who are usually good for stuff like this.

I know some will disagree but that is my opinion based on my observations on here.
 

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Good Post ST! I've had a few of those questions myself... In fact, (I was gonna wait 'till it's done, then post results) I'm going to replace my reso's with Zoomer's Cannon Tips, a resonated tip, and keeping the main muffler. I have the stock, R/T exhaust on my 3.5l, so it's quiet and "should" be giving me better efficiency. I'm adding an AFE Stage 2 Intake very soon also. I'm mainly looking for a mileage increase, not so much after sound or HP increase.

My "theory" is that the reso's are the least "straight-thru" part of the system, so the new tips are completely straight, and hopefully resonated enough to give it a good sound. I did not find any other examples of this combo. on the forum, so I've "volunteered" myself to be the first to try it.

I'll let you know what happens! :grin:
 

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From the ones that I have met and seen, alot of them are taking the Daytona exhaust from the stock Daytona and adapting them to the V6. I sold mine t a SXT owner here in town, a muffler shop installed and TAADAA. Duals. the chargers have the same exhaust on all the LX platforms, so there are no special routing to do. Only have to add an extention pip e. the shop cuts the pipe right after the cats ans welds it together. Try to find a used daytona exhaust.Her price for modifying to Daytona

Exhaust 200.00
muffler shop 150.00
heat shield to gas tank..100.00
total450.00 Not bad concidering the cheapest store bot is about 600.00


MY two cents..
 

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All though I don't have the charger yet, what I was planning on doing was eliminating the muffler and resonaters and placing two straight through mufflers where the large muffler once was. The muffler shop by my house makes mufflers, which I have on my Jeep that's basically looks like a larger diameter piece of exhaust with wire mesh in the middle. Ex. you have 3" exhaust, the muffler is 4" in diameter and apprx 1.5' long and is perfectly straight. I'll post a pic of mine when I get home. My assumption is that it's going to be pretty damn loud and have quite a bit of drone, but that doesn't bother me at all, but I know that some people driving in my car don't like it.

Edit: Here's a photo of the muffler that I have right now
 

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From my research with the exhausts done on here I think I can see why so many are complaining about drone on their custom setups (I need some others to tell me if I am right though).

The big exhaust mod around here on the V6 forums to get dual exhaust is putting a dual in/dual out muffler in the middle of the car where the stock suitcase is and no resonators.

The Magnaflow cat-back system seems to have a resonator in the middle to replace the suitcase and two mufflers at the rear-end.

The resonator absorbs some of the dreaded drone and the mufflers are at the back of the car so there shouldn't be as much of a rumble in the cabin like on the custom ones where it is right under the cabin.

This is why I have not done the "Bigfuzz exhaust mod" yet. Not only is there a difference in drone b/t the two but one would think that there is also a difference in backpressure/performance. I do not think the manufacturer would have designed it this way if it were not the best way to do it. Now I do not think you will get close to 10HP from the catback but it is probably better than the custom ones people are doing.

I have a local exhaust shop that I have dealt a lot with and plan on talking to them over Christmas break about the best setup to do. I just do not trust the dual in/dual out muffler in the middle of the car.
 

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I just bought a RT exhaust for my 3.5 HO SE. I plan on keeping the suitcase but want to replace the resonators with free flowing resonators (either magna flow or borla). As soon as I get it done, I'll let you know how it works out, good or bad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I think you might should have posted this in the Performance section of the forums since most (not all) V6 owners do not have that much experience with these type of things. Many are trying to obtain this information but I have not seen a lot of people that already know it since a lot of them did not buy the car for performance. I think that is why there are so many exhaust threads as it is but this is a good topic you brought up. I think you should put in the Performance section to get some opinions from the V8 guys who are usually good for stuff like this.

I know some will disagree but that is my opinion based on my observations on here.
well hopefully i can apply some of the stuff from the past to here.:)

Good Post ST! I've had a few of those questions myself... In fact, (I was gonna wait 'till it's done, then post results) I'm going to replace my reso's with Zoomer's Cannon Tips, a resonated tip, and keeping the main muffler. I have the stock, R/T exhaust on my 3.5l, so it's quiet and "should" be giving me better efficiency. I'm adding an AFE Stage 2 Intake very soon also. I'm mainly looking for a mileage increase, not so much after sound or HP increase.

My "theory" is that the reso's are the least "straight-thru" part of the system, so the new tips are completely straight, and hopefully resonated enough to give it a good sound. I did not find any other examples of this combo. on the forum, so I've "volunteered" myself to be the first to try it.

I'll let you know what happens! :grin:
thanx brah, i'm shooting for most the same, but my main goal is to not lose any power or efficiency.

i've seen a wide use of the R/T stock exhaust on v6's, but i still am weary of the fact its stock. it gives the look, no doubt, which many are goin for. but the part that backtracks me is the larger diamter than what would be used on the v6 (smaller engine, smaller displacement, smaller pipes). granted its not much, around 1/4 inch if peoples measurements are accurate, but that can translate into a performance robber if you slow the velocity down any degree.

it would seem the main muffler under the car would be the most restrictive. the tail end mufflers or resonators, are smaller and shouldnt have as much restriction as the larger part.

BTW how much are people charging for their scrap exhausts? and do you or anyone know if the resonators/tail end mufflers on the v6 and v8 are of the same design?

From the ones that I have met and seen, alot of them are taking the Daytona exhaust from the stock Daytona and adapting them to the V6. I sold mine t a SXT owner here in town, a muffler shop installed and TAADAA. Duals. the chargers have the same exhaust on all the LX platforms, so there are no special routing to do. Only have to add an extention pip e. the shop cuts the pipe right after the cats ans welds it together. Try to find a used daytona exhaust.Her price for modifying to Daytona

Exhaust 200.00
muffler shop 150.00
heat shield to gas tank..100.00
total450.00 Not bad concidering the cheapest store bot is about 600.00


MY two cents..

yup, thats what i've been readin about. the only thing on that is, for looks it would be GREAT.

but for those looking for performance, it would seem the larger pipes will hinder the velocity of the gas. almost every major manufacturer and also the smaller board supporting manufacturers, are dropping the pipe sizes around0.25 of an inch for the V6....single and dual.

daytona exhaust is definately an option, but for performance retention or gain, it may slow us down....:confused:

All though I don't have the charger yet, what I was planning on doing was eliminating the muffler and resonaters and placing two straight through mufflers where the large muffler once was. The muffler shop by my house makes mufflers, which I have on my Jeep that's basically looks like a larger diameter piece of exhaust with wire mesh in the middle. Ex. you have 3" exhaust, the muffler is 4" in diameter and apprx 1.5' long and is perfectly straight. I'll post a pic of mine when I get home. My assumption is that it's going to be pretty damn loud and have quite a bit of drone, but that doesn't bother me at all, but I know that some people driving in my car don't like it.
yeah that design you described there, thats the basic design of a resonator. purple hornies, cherry bomb, magnaflow, etc.... resonators with most companies are just smaller mufflers with less "packing" or sound absorbing material.

i know exactly what you mean though in description. on my j-body i was able to wedge a 31 inch resonator AFTER the cat, then a 20 inch muffler, then another 16 inch resonator before the exhaust exit.:lol: around DC/MD/VA i try to stay under the state trooper exhaust noise radar...:wink:

From my research with the exhausts done on here I think I can see why so many are complaining about drone on their custom setups (I need some others to tell me if I am right though).

The big exhaust mod around here on the V6 forums to get dual exhaust is putting a dual in/dual out muffler in the middle of the car where the stock suitcase is and no resonators.

The Magnaflow cat-back system seems to have a resonator in the middle to replace the suitcase and two mufflers at the rear-end.

The resonator absorbs some of the dreaded drone and the mufflers are at the back of the car so there shouldn't be as much of a rumble in the cabin like on the custom ones where it is right under the cabin.

This is why I have not done the "Bigfuzz exhaust mod" yet. Not only is there a difference in drone b/t the two but one would think that there is also a difference in backpressure/performance. I do not think the manufacturer would have designed it this way if it were not the best way to do it. Now I do not think you will get close to 10HP from the catback but it is probably better than the custom ones people are doing.

I have a local exhaust shop that I have dealt a lot with and plan on talking to them over Christmas break about the best setup to do. I just do not trust the dual in/dual out muffler in the middle of the car.
thats EXACTLY my mindset. it seems that we have a 2.5 inch exhaust in a single i believe. which is basically 1/2 of the RT/Hemi setup.... so basically after the Y pipe connects, its similar to what the RT/hemi/daytona exhaust measures out to.

but all the aftermarket exhausts with most major companies, borla, magnaflow... they still have that main muffler (mid car) then have decent sized resonators/mufflers at the tail end.

part of me wants to just add the single/Ysplit/dual outlet for the time being. then change maybe over the winter. i promised on this car i wasnt gonna do 11 different exhaust setups.... but its sooo tempting now that i have more options in designs.:knockout: :grin:

I just bought a RT exhaust for my 3.5 HO SE. I plan on keeping the suitcase but want to replace the resonators with free flowing resonators (either magna flow or borla). As soon as I get it done, I'll let you know how it works out, good or bad.
cool ya! whats your main goal with it?
 

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I just bought a RT exhaust for my 3.5 HO SE. I plan on keeping the suitcase but want to replace the resonators with free flowing resonators (either magna flow or borla). As soon as I get it done, I'll let you know how it works out, good or bad.
Hey Davey, we'll have to compare notes when we're both done! I think the Cannon Tips are essentially a straight-thru resonator and should be very free-flowing... I can't dyno with the AWD, but I'll let you know what the "butt-dyno" readings are! :grin:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hey Davey, we'll have to compare notes when we're both done! I think the Cannon Tips are essentially a straight-thru resonator and should be very free-flowing... I can't dyno with the AWD, but I'll let you know what the "butt-dyno" readings are! :grin:
find an AWD dyno..... they dyno evo's, WRX's and md is home of the 8 second Talon. check around and see if they have a dyno for AWD:)
 

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thats EXACTLY my mindset. it seems that we have a 2.5 inch exhaust in a single i believe. which is basically 1/2 of the RT/Hemi setup.... so basically after the Y pipe connects, its similar to what the RT/hemi/daytona exhaust measures out to.

but all the aftermarket exhausts with most major companies, borla, magnaflow... they still have that main muffler (mid car) then have decent sized resonators/mufflers at the tail end.

part of me wants to just add the single/Ysplit/dual outlet for the time being. then change maybe over the winter. i promised on this car i wasnt gonna do 11 different exhaust setups.... but its sooo tempting now that i have more options in designs.:knockout: :grin:
I got the impression that the actual mufflers are at the end and the resonator is in the middle on the aftermarket systems that bolton like the Magnaflow above. This is how they describe it on their site. If that is the case, this explains why their is more cabin noise on the ones putting a dual in/dual out in the middle of their car instead of two mufflers at the end of the system?
 

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The Daytona exhaust is very free flowing, The suitcase is straight thru as compared to the stock R/T model. the suitcase is the muffler, the tips are the reso. It will help with the performance because you will reduce the backflow and have true duals. from the Daytona exhaust. this will not drop performance. It will help. If you will notice, most aftermarket catbac exhaust consists of larger tube dia. to increase the scaveging of the exhaust and to reduce unneeded back pressure.true, the engines need someback pressure to run properly, but the daytona exh. is a cheaper way to accomplish what you want to do. Adding a CAI will enhance the system by allowing more air to flow. P.S. there are no Drone problems with this exhaust.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I got the impression that the actual mufflers are at the end and the resonator is in the middle on the aftermarket systems that bolton like the Magnaflow above. This is how they describe it on their site. If that is the case, this explains why their is more cabin noise on the ones putting a dual in/dual out in the middle of their car instead of two mufflers at the end of the system?

well according to the shop manual for the charger, the muffler is "the suitcase" as what everyone refers to.... the resonators are listed as the parts near the tail end...

but in reality, resonators ARE mufflers....


they are called Sub-Mufflers. all a resonators is, is a smaller version of a full size muffler.

glasspacks are also resonators, but thats their nickname because those resonators are filled with fiberglass packing to absorb sound.

some resonators and mufflers still use fiberglass due to low cost.

top high quality mufflers have better sound absorbing materials though.


the drone usually occurs when at a certain range there is not enough sound absorbing material to suck up all the sound. the drone we hear is basically vibrations. it can be transfered through the hangers which attach directly to the chassis, or it can be out the rear. more than liklely its a mix of both. most shops have different durometer rubber hangers, some stiffer or softer than others... it'll minimize one of the possibilities...

thing is though, most exhausts with at least 3 mufflers total. one in the middle, 2 in the rear...those are the ones that seem to have the least problems.

The Daytona exhaust is very free flowing, The suitcase is straight thru as compared to the stock R/T model. the suitcase is the muffler, the tips are the reso. It will help with the performance because you will reduce the backflow and have true duals. from the Daytona exhaust. this will not drop performance. It will help. If you will notice, most aftermarket catbac exhaust consists of larger tube dia. to increase the scaveging of the exhaust and to reduce unneeded back pressure.true, the engines need someback pressure to run properly, but the daytona exh. is a cheaper way to accomplish what you want to do. Adding a CAI will enhance the system by allowing more air to flow. P.S. there are no Drone problems with this exhaust.
well thats def more info on it... and good to hear. i thank all of ya for giving some feedback. seriously.

the daytona exahaust, i can see it helping the performance a bit, but the one set back is due to the size of the diameter, it will slow the velocity, which lessens the scavenging effect, in turn shorting us of low end power.

true, most all aftermarket catbacks are slightly larger and straight through, but only relative to the stock sizes.

the dual exhausts, for example on the zoomers setup for the 5.7L ...are DUAL 2.25 inches.... the magnaflow and borla exhausts are 2.5inch exhausts for the 5.7L.

for ALL the aftermarket exhausts on the 3.5L the pipe diameter is 2.5...for the SINGLE. when we split it, that size should surely drop, else we go back to square one with the daytona exhaust. free flow, but overly large pipe, which equals slowed velocity

we basically have 2.2L less than what the lowest v8's have. less displacement causes a need for smaller pipes. larger pipes tend to slow down exhaust flow and cause backpressure.

an article from magnaflows site shows it:

To produce the most power, an exhaust should have minimal restriction on the exhaust flow. Restriction hampers the burned exhaust gases from exiting your engine, causing some charge dilution with the incoming fresh fuel air mixture. If all the exhaust gas cannot escape from your cylinders, it dilutes the flammable power-producing intake mixture that is trying to come in. The diluted mixture does not burn as well as a pure mixture. This causes a loss of power. You don't feel so energetic at a packed club with lots of cigarette smoke, sweaty bodies and hot stuffy air right? Neither does your engine.

With greater restriction, backpressure is generated, making the engine work harder to pump the exhaust out of the cylinders. That work could be used to turn the wheels instead.

BACKPRESSURE = TORQUE?
An old hot-rodder's tall tale: Engines need some backpressure to work properly and make torque. That is not true. What engines need is low backpressure, but high exhaust stream velocity. A fast-moving but free-flowing gas column in the exhaust helps create a rarefaction or a negative pressure wave behind the exhaust valve as it opens. This vacuum helps scavenge the cylinder of exhaust gas faster and more thoroughly with less pumping losses. An exhaust pipe that is too big in diameter has low backpressure but lower velocity. The low velocity reduces the effectiveness of this scavenging effect, which has the greatest impact on low-end torque.

Low backpressure and high exhaust stream velocity can be achieved by running straight-through free-flowing mufflers and small pipe diameters. The only two exceptions to this are turbocharged engines and engines optimized for large amounts of nitrous oxide. Both of these devices vastly increase the exhaust gas volume and simply need larger pipes to get rid of it all.

Some stock mufflers and exhaust systems have up to 18psi of choking, power-robbing backpressure. In direct contrast, a well-designed, high-performance street exhaust system typically has about 2 to 6 psi of backpressure. For an interesting comparison, an un-muffled straight pipe on a real racecar usually has 1 to 3 psi of backpressure.

To get the least amount of backpressure, most of the good, high-performance mufflers available today have what is called a straight-through design. These mufflers quiet the exhaust by absorbing high-frequency vibrations in heat-resistant packing, usually consisting of stainless-steel mesh and heat-resistant ceramic fibers.

They typically have an inner core that is straight-through with no baffling at all, much like a straight pipe with many small holes in it. The pipe is louvered or perforated when it passes inside the muffler's shell, allowing sound energy to pass through the holes but leaving the exhaust gas flow unimpeded. You can see straight through these types of mufflers. The louvered or perforated core is usually wrapped with either fiberglass wadding (hence the old-school term, Glass Pack) or, in the better mufflers, stainless-steel mesh backed by ceramic fiber to help further absorb the sound.

On straight-through mufflers, the longer the muffler and the bigger the can, the quieter it is. The length usually has no effect on backpressure, just noise output. These absorption type mufflers work in the same manner as the silencers used on guns. If a silencer had baffles that impeded bullet travel, you would definitely have problems! The same is for a perforated core absorption muffler, straight through, no baffles, no restriction, and no backpressure.

see thats the part that i believe would hamper the daytona setup. the low backpressure, that it definately would give, but it would also lower the velocity, causing a loss down low. if i remember right, some posts with those who have done the swap, have noticed that they thought they lost power in the lower RPM band.... that article basically explains it.


see what i was thinking, is magnaflow and borla both have their single into a dual setup.

the stock SINLGE pipe on the 3.5L is 2.5 inches....when they split it, it goes down to 2.25 inches.

considering the displacement differences, and the fact we put out significantly less exhaust gasses than the lowest of the v8's, we's have to lower the exhaust diameter if performance gains are optimized.

basically the same reason a base RT guy would stick on the 3 inch SRT8 super bee exhaust. that makes sense, right? to me it does, but just getting feedback.
 

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Guys, this is a great post!!!

I am considering installing the BigFuzz setup on my V6, this is installing a 11385 muffler in the middle. However I don't want the super loud noise that is reported between 2k and 3k RPM.

So, from what i read in this post, the best option would be to go with one muffler at the center of the car and two on each side on the rear.

The thing is, i don't know witch muffler should i choose for the rear of the car (that would fit and also kill the drone) I was taking a look at the 11375 from magnaflow.

http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopexd.asp?zone=main&id=440

Do you think this would be a good option? Or do you have any suggestion on what else could I install?
 

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I would try to find out the part numbers of the mufflers Magnaflow is using in their cat-back system or just buy the system (though it is probably cheaper to put it together yourself with a local muffler shop). I think that is the route I am heading or I might get a RT R&T exhaust from a local guy that took it off his to put on aftermarket.

Although the exhaust that everyone is doing based on Bigfuzz's install is a cheap way to get dual exhaust, I just don't think it is the right way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Guys, this is a great post!!!

I am considering installing the BigFuzz setup on my V6, this is installing a 11385 muffler in the middle. However I don't want the super loud noise that is reported between 2k and 3k RPM.

So, from what i read in this post, the best option would be to go with one muffler at the center of the car and two on each side on the rear.

The thing is, i don't know witch muffler should i choose for the rear of the car (that would fit and also kill the drone) I was taking a look at the 11375 from magnaflow.

http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopexd.asp?zone=main&id=440

Do you think this would be a good option? Or do you have any suggestion on what else could I install?
have you thought about doing a dual mid muffler setup? i've noticed many true dual exhausts on many different cars are doing that.

each side has their own mid muffler and tail end muffler as well... so far thats what i'm leaning to as of right now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I would try to find out the part numbers of the mufflers Magnaflow is using in their cat-back system or just buy the system (though it is probably cheaper to put it together yourself with a local muffler shop). I think that is the route I am heading or I might get a RT R&T exhaust from a local guy that took it off his to put on aftermarket.

Although the exhaust that everyone is doing based on Bigfuzz's install is a cheap way to get dual exhaust, I just don't think it is the right way.

thats what i was thinking as well. buying the setup. using the tail end part and at a later time getting two individual mufflers for right under the gas tank (mid mufflers) and going from there.

the tail end mini mufflers, look to be a sound setup.
 
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