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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New Charger may face fate of retro GTO


If you saw last weekend's Daytona 500 race, you no doubt know that there's a new Dodge Charger going on sale this summer.

There are two schools of thought on how successful that car will be.

The first says that Chrysler is on a roll, that it's making money and head-turning cars again. The surprising success of the Chrysler 300 sedan and Dodge Magnum wagon set the stage for the Charger's return. After all, those three models share platforms and engines, including the Hemi V-8 that has become Chrysler's fourth brand these days. (As in Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and ``That thing got a Hemi?'')

The new Charger will be priced right, probably starting around $27,000, when it goes on sale in June.

The other group-think puts a more negative spin on the Charger's future. And it invokes the Pontiac GTO.

[size=-1]By Matt Nauman[/size]

[size=-1]Mercury News
Via: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/promotions/10982541.htm?1c
[/size]
 

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ekool said:
New Charger may face fate of retro GTO


If you saw last weekend's Daytona 500 race, you no doubt know that there's a new Dodge Charger going on sale this summer.

There are two schools of thought on how successful that car will be.

The first says that Chrysler is on a roll, that it's making money and head-turning cars again. The surprising success of the Chrysler 300 sedan and Dodge Magnum wagon set the stage for the Charger's return. After all, those three models share platforms and engines, including the Hemi V-8 that has become Chrysler's fourth brand these days. (As in Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and ``That thing got a Hemi?'')

The new Charger will be priced right, probably starting around $27,000, when it goes on sale in June.

The other group-think puts a more negative spin on the Charger's future. And it invokes the Pontiac GTO.

[size=-1]By Matt Nauman[/size]

[size=-1]Mercury News
Via: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/promotions/10982541.htm?1c
[/size]
The fate of the new GTO? You mean Chrysler's marketing for the Charger will be almost non-existent and that dealers will be marking them up well above sticker (The Mustang GT is also being marked way up). Ford and GM dealers are killing this new lineup of muscle car so expect the same from the Dodge dealers. Expect the Chargers to get at least a $5K dealer markup.

Once the Pontiac dealers got in line with the program and GM offered rebates...those dealer couldn't get enough GTOs. They actually had a very good sales figures (I think about 86%) for a first year model. The problem however is being repeated in some parts of the country with the 05 model.

The Charger's biggest problem will be the four doors, It will keep older generation and hard core mod group away. The four doors will however be attracking soccer moms.

As for reviews don't put much faith in them from Car and Driver or Motor Trend. Although the 05 GTO beat the O5 Mustang GT in every performance catagory the Ford was the winner on bonus points for things like "Gotta have it Factor". I can't wait to see who the put the Charger up against.

...oh and the Hemi...well we all know...it really isn't one...just recycling the name doesn't really work for those over 40 who remember the real thing :)
 

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Jesus, the Stang owners and GTO owners are like friken skeeters around here!!!!

Tell you what, come back in a year and we'll check all your predictions against reality.

We've heard already a million times why it can't/won't succeed. Really, we have. Maybe I'm more aware of it, having had the last two years of every person on the net saying how SRT-4s were

A) Never gonna actually perform like the ones tested by the mags, cause you know they had to ringers

B) Gonna blow, cause you can't just throw a turbo on a neon without it blowing up:)

C) Gonna fall to pieces before 30K, cause all neons are crap

D) Not gonna sell, cause everybody would see through Dodges weak ass attempt to jump the small car performance market that Honda invented
(Yeah, that one was rich:))

E) Kill the owners when they inevitbly (sp) crashed, cause you know they are made of tin foil

They were all wrong, and I'm betting so are you. But unless the new GTO or Stang comes with a time machine option, we'll just have to wait.
 

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Hey, hemi, is Gary the same as GTO1?
 

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Possible....

We all know what was the gloom look at the 300 C before production and had the same reactions. Now, sales will hit 100K for 05.
 

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I guess the fact is we all love to compare things to the old, but this is not like the GTO , etc. This is a 4 dr Hotrod, and it is indicative of today's buyer. There is not the concern with having just two doors, there is concern about speed and handling, and draggin the friends along is part of the scene.I am seeing some slammed Chargers , with lowered Eibachs, trick rims and 22's, and I can't see that happening with the GTO. Yeh, the name is retro, along with the Hemi buzz, but I think it will open up to a different crowd. Young couples with kids ( when an old fart like me was growing up ) had only 2 dr hot-rods to go for the groceries. I know if I was 30, with a gorgeous blonde wife ( heh, I was there at one time ,hehe ) and a new young-un, I would think Charger Hemi. It will probably come in a couple of grand under a 300C, it will be tuned a bit more aggressively, and the childseat in the back will be easy to pop in. GTO, not going to work, so this Beast is somewhat in a land of it's own.It will sell well, and Dealers should just charge a fair price, as it will not be long before production is pumped up.

Just my thoughts,
Bill Pembeton
Woodhouse Chrysler, Dodge,Jeep
 

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hemidakota said:
Possible....

We all know what was the gloom look at the 300 C before production and had the same reactions. Now, sales will hit 100K for 05.
Sorry but not the same person. And being 48 actually I have owned quite a few Chrysler products; including a 1970 Charger during high school in the mid-70's, 1982 Charger 2.2 and a 1984 Laser Turbo. If Chrysler had a coupe anything like the GTO I probably would have bought it last year instead.
Some Mustang people on the GTO are very informative while others are total a$$es. ..So next time before you judge someone in a forum get to know if they are for real or a just here to cause trouble....They just may own a Charger before you do :)


...Now I did just look at the Charger Daytona at the Cleveland Auto show... just yesterday in fact. ...but as stated already this really is going to be looked at by quite a few soccer moms....and personally I do hate it when I see a car being wasted on the wrong person. Although I do like the styling it really should have been a coupe. With the front and rear doors open it looks like your looking into a SUV. This vehicle is too huge to even remotely be compared to the GTO or Mustang...it really is in its own class..and maybe there is a market for it. I just think A new 450 hp Barracuda coupe would be just the ticket :D
 

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When this car was being designed, there was other MODELS that was co-sharing the same chassis.

RUMOR ONLY: something is expect around 08 if sales go well for a limited run. Expect it to build by a coach builder rather than DCx.
 

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Hey, Hemi, didn't you just post something about a company that does limited run production for DCX in Europe looking for a U.S. plant? Hmmm, wonder what they might want that for? Maybe in that light, it might make sense to produce a two door kinda thing that's not financially feasible on a regular line?
 

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Yep...SRT is looking for a coach builder for specialty vehicles. It is now rumored that SRT may be seperating its operation to a coach builder for final assembly.

If there is hope....

My advice to Dan: "PLEASE BUILD THE DURANGO Twin Turbo HEMI DUDE truck!!!!!!!"
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
GTO1 said:
The fate of the new GTO? You mean Chrysler's marketing for the Charger will be almost non-existent and that dealers will be marking them up well above sticker (The Mustang GT is also being marked way up). Ford and GM dealers are killing this new lineup of muscle car so expect the same from the Dodge dealers. Expect the Chargers to get at least a $5K dealer markup.

Once the Pontiac dealers got in line with the program and GM offered rebates...those dealer couldn't get enough GTOs. They actually had a very good sales figures (I think about 86%) for a first year model. The problem however is being repeated in some parts of the country with the 05 model.

The Charger's biggest problem will be the four doors, It will keep older generation and hard core mod group away. The four doors will however be attracking soccer moms.
Are we talking about the same GTO? The one that dealers had to give $6000 and $7000 of sticker to get them off the lots?

The 04 GTO wouldnt sell without HUGE rebates and incentives, the dealers were begging people to buy them and practically GIVING them away.

The 05 GTO with the LS2 will probably sell alot better on less rebates, but only time will tell.
 

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GTO1 said:
So next time before you judge someone in a forum get to know if they are for real or a just here to cause trouble....They just may own a Charger before you do :)
...Now I did just look at the Charger Daytona at the Cleveland Auto show... just yesterday in fact. ...but as stated already this really is going to be looked at by quite a few soccer moms....
dude, I think you were looking at the "Caravan Daytona" concept... but seriously; this car doesn't appeal to "soccer Moms" it doesn't seat enough people...its a rear drive sports sedan with up to 350 h.p... no awd option to sell it to the safety patrol here in the snow belt...no rear seat dvd etc...this is a Man's car and will be marketed as such... not that some women wouldn't find this car cool...they just wouldn't be the moms of soccer players ;)
 

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(psst, shed? there will be a rear seat video option, check hemis "brampton production" post, it shows the option code for it)
 

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ekool said:
Are we talking about the same GTO? The one that dealers had to give $6000 and $7000 of sticker to get them off the lots?

The 04 GTO wouldnt sell without HUGE rebates and incentives, the dealers were begging people to buy them and practically GIVING them away.

The 05 GTO with the LS2 will probably sell alot better on less rebates, but only time will tell.
Well, look at what you just wrote...

No kidding the 04 was a tough sell, when the buyers knew that for about the same price the next model year was going to have the LS2. Would you spend the money on the 04, when in a few months you could get the 05 with more power and a somewhat more refined look? How many Chargers do you think Dodge would sell starting today, if they said that in 6 months the standard 5.7L engine would be replaced with the 6.1L for the same price?

Ok, that said, don't start assumiming that I'm a GTO fan, or a stang fan. I'm neither. If I were to buy a new car, it would probably be the Magnum SRT-8. Although a black Charger SRT-8 has its appeal too. I just want people to put things into proper perspective, instead of bashing out of the blue. Admin or not, you gotta think about it first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The GTO has been a poor seller since day one. The LS2 was not mentioned til pretty far down the road, so your hypothesis is seriously flawed.

Face it, the damn GTO has not sold good as an 04 unit, and only time will tell if it sells good as an 05 unit.

Pick up a magazine, the sales rate of the GTO has been HALF of what it was estimated to be.

I think I know what I'm talking about, you should take your own advice.

edit: correction, LS6 to LS2.. I've got LS6 on the brain.
 

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ekool said:
The GTO has been a poor seller since day one. The LS2 was not mentioned til pretty far down the road, so your hypothesis is seriously flawed.

Well, if you consider early January of 2004 to be pretty far down the road... Seriously, it was a well known fact shortly after the 04 hit the sales floor that the 05 was going to have the LS2. The only reason to not catch that fact was to be too fixated on one brand name, and too busy bashing the others.

As for sales on the '05, they are doing just fine for the niche market. You can't honestly expect them to hit mini-van numbers, let alone sedan numbers. Here's some reading for you regarding the sales for '05 -- http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17629&highlight=selling
Unfortunately that link is to a GTO forum, so I'm sure you'll just consider it biased. An undeniably unbiased count will eventually be released, when GM releases their next quarterly report, or some other consumer watchdog releases their own figures.
 

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http://forums.gminsidenews.com/showthread.php?t=11811

How about this for real numbers, not isolated reports from individual folks.

Now, we don't have the total numbers available, but the 2005 production run of SRT-8 300Cs is already sold. Even with a small number like 3000 (And I have no idea of what that number really is), that's moving niche cars. :)
 

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ekool said:
The GTO has been a poor seller since day one. The LS2 was not mentioned til pretty far down the road, so your hypothesis is seriously flawed.

Face it, the damn GTO has not sold good as an 04 unit, and only time will tell if it sells good as an 05 unit.

Pick up a magazine, the sales rate of the GTO has been HALF of what it was estimated to be.

I think I know what I'm talking about, you should take your own advice.

edit: correction, LS6 to LS2.. I've got LS6 on the brain.
actually the production for 2004 was 18,000 they have sold all but 1000 of them...production for the 05 was scaled back to 12000 but that's because GM is adjusting holden's production to match the north American market and put out 06's in sept/nov....

The lessons learned by GM should not go unnoticed, if you overprice a car or the public perceives it to be overpriced because of so-so- press, your car won't sell without huge rebates...when GM put a 3500 rebate on the GTO their sales trippled( that put the price below 30k, take the hint, Dodge!). Most people wern't looking at the GTO, but when they did they found a real performance bargain. Will the GTO ever break sales records? No, but they are changing platforms for '07 so who knows...

The Charger is getting the same criticisms from "fans" as the GTO did...the diffrence is the Dodge will appeal to more people, and you know a cop version will sell thousands..."soccer moms" notwithstanding :rolleyes:
 

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chargershed said:
dude, I think you were looking at the "Caravan Daytona" concept... but seriously; this car doesn't appeal to "soccer Moms" it doesn't seat enough people...its a rear drive sports sedan with up to 350 h.p... no awd option to sell it to the safety patrol here in the snow belt...no rear seat dvd etc...this is a Man's car and will be marketed as such... not that some women wouldn't find this car cool...they just wouldn't be the moms of soccer players ;)
There is a rear seat DVD. Soccer moms may be a tarket market, since they don't care about the looks of a car/minivan. This is not a mans car.
 
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