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My Pedders Experience

25K views 105 replies 29 participants last post by  metgo 
#1 · (Edited)
I hate to post bad reviews especially in situations like this where a supporting vendor is evolved but I have to be honest. I think my Pedder's setup is great and the car handles amazing but I had so many issues a long the way that it almost doesn't seem worth it to me now. First off let me say that Pedders and Mid Coast Performance (my local Pedder dealer) have the worst customer service I have ever delt with. It is so bad that it is laughable. Here is how it all went down.

Back on 5-15-08 I found out about a shop in the St. Louis area called Mid Coast Performance from this thread http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=114235 , turns out they were having some event called “Pedders Day”. The day after I found out about this shop I called them up to see if they would install a torque converter for me and setup an appointment for Friday 5-30-08.

The next week I ended up going to their Pedders Day on 5-24-08. I had a great time. I got some free food, a 28 point inspection and best of all I got to ride in shop Owner Gene’s Pedderized Charger R/T. I was very impressed with his car and told him I plan on doing some suspension work in the very near future. A few days after on 5-28-08 I called Gene and let him know I wanted to do the Full Track 2 setup. We agreed to have it started on 5-30-08 when I drop my car off for the torque converter install. The next day I found out that I wasn’t going to have my torque converter in time for the install so we agreed to push the appoint back to Monday June 2nd. Gene told me they could get started on the car Monday morning and it was a 2-3 day install with about 14-16 hours of labor. I told him I’d bring the converter up as soon as I got it so they could complete the install and he said that was fine.

On Monday June 2nd I drop my car off with Mid Coast Performance at 7:30 AM. The guy that was working when I dropped it off told me “We'll start working on it right away”. Two days later I finally get my torque converter, I rush it up to MCP and when I got there I noticed my car was parked in their lot in the exact same place I left it on Monday morning. I talk to the owner’s son Kurt who was working at the time. He told me they were waiting on parts and would have them in that afternoon and would start first thing Thursday morning and could possibly have the car done Friday evening or Saturday afternoon at the latest. I received no phone call from them telling me that they were even waiting on parts. I assumed since they were a Pedder’s dealer they should have had the parts especially since I made an appointment almost a week in advance. So I left the torque converter with them and waited.

On Friday June 6th I call them up in the afternoon wanting to know the current status of my car. Once again they tell me they are still waiting on parts and would have them Monday morning and that they would start on the car right away. At this point I got pretty angry. This is when I first contacted Pedders about this matter. I PMed Paul (Hemi4me) with all the details. He apologized for my inconvenience and he even agreed with me that it was totally unacceptable that they had my car with no parts and he told me he called the shop and forwarded my complaint to the shop owner. In a later PM he even told me that MCP mention nothing about having to wait on parts.

On Monday June 9th I received my first phone call from MCP. I was told they finally got the parts and would start working on my car right away.

Tuesday evening I call them up, not expecting my car to be done but just wanting to know how it was going. They said things were going great and the car would be done Wednesday afternoon. Great, I’m finally going to be getting my car back, WRONG!

June 11th, Wednesday afternoon I call them up to see if my car is done yet. They said they were still working on it and would be done by the end of the day and I could pick up the car on Thursday morning.

Thursday June 12th at 12:00 in the afternoon I get a phone call from MCP. They tell me my car still isn’t done and would be done no later than 3:00 PM. 3:00 PM rolls around and I heard nothing from them. I call their shop, no one answer. I tried a few more times with no luck. I then decided to take a ride up there. I get there and no one is even there. Now I was fuming. I went back home and PMed Paul and let him know what was going on. Later that day at 5:30 I call MCP and someone finally answers. I asked the guy if my car was done and he said he wasn’t sure and he would call me right back. A half hour goes by and no call. I then called him back. He tells me that the suspension is done and they will finish the torque converter by the end of the day. I asked him if they ran into any problems and why it took so long. He told me they didn’t run into any problems and with a smart a$$ tone to his voice told me “We just go the parts on Monday”. After this little talk I was wondering why they didn't have the converter done yet. They had the car for a week waiting on suspension parts, they couldn't have done the converter sometime that week? This lead me to believe that they were lying about not having the parts. They just didn't have time for me.

Finally it is Friday. MCP at this point has had my car for 11 days and I should finally be getting it back. I was really hoping that they would get my car done because I would be making a trip to Columbus that weekend. I call them up in the afternoon and they tell me they are still working on the torque converter and tranny cooler and it would be done by 5:00 PM. 5:00 PM rolls around and I call them and OMG it is actually done. I hurry up there. I write them a check for the job and prepare to leave. Before I left they told me that when they took the car for a test drive they could hear the exhaust clanking up against the car when they went over bumps because they couldn’t get the exhaust lined back up properly.

I drive the car home. The whole way home I hear the clank that they were telling me about. I would have made them fix the exhaust but I didn't have another 11 days for them to fix it so I decided to do it my self. I pull my car up on ramps when I got home. The first thing I noticed was all the clamps on the exhaust were loose. I re-aligned the exhaust and tightened everything down. I go to take the car for a test drive. I get about half way down my street and start hearing the clanking sound again coming from the rear of the car. I turn around and get my car back on ramps for further inspection. While checking the exhaust again I notice this,







A bolt without a nut on it. And Pedders is always saying how dangerous the OEM bushings are on these cars. Now this is dangerous. First I tried to call MCP but they were already gone. I then called Paul at Pedders. He told me he was sorry for all the trouble and told me I'd be better off talking to Pete. I let him know I'd PM Pete and try to talk to him in person if I was able to make the trip to Columbus. I then had to drive up to the hardware store to buy a washer and a nut. I get home and put the new nut on. While I was under the car I decided to check all the other bolts because I was preparing for a long trip to Columbus and I want to make sure my car was safe before I drove it that far. To my surprise, I ended up finding 2 more loose bolts that I had to tighten down. Words couldn't even describe how angry I was at this point.

In the end, I was able to make my trip to Columbus. When I first saw Pete, I went over to him and told him about what happened. He apologized a few times but would always change the subject and start telling me about how great the guys are over at MCP. IMO he didn't seem to think my issue was a big deal at all. Even after Columbus we went back and forth on some PMs and I still got the sense from him that he didn't really care.

While in Columbus I asked Pete if he'd inspect my car to make sure I wasn't having any other issues. He had his guys get under my car and check everything out. They found yet another loose bolt and even worse they notice I'm leaking tranny fluid. We traced the source of the leak and it was coming from the tranny cooler. They didn't tighten the clamps on the hoses that go into the tranny cooler. We tighten the clamps up as much as we could. The next day Eric (hemi31) was nice enough to check my tranny fluid for me. He said I was probably at least a quart low. So I ended up having to add another quart. Later when I got home I actually found out that I was still a 1.5 quarts low.

I thought all my troubles were finally fixed, wrong again. About 2 weeks ago I started hearing another clanking sound, this time from the front. I couldn't figure out what it was so I decided to let MCP take a look at it. I call them up on a Wednesday afternoon and tell about my issues. Once again they still didn't seem that concerned and acted like this is all normal. I told them I need them to look at my car ASAP. I told them I'd be available on Friday or Saturday. They told me I could drop my car off early Friday morning and they'd have it fixed by Saturday. I'm like wait just a minute, you don't even know what is wrong with my car and you are already telling me you'll need it for 2 days? This to me sounded like they don't care about me and they just want me to drop it off so they can work on it when it is convenient for them. I told them how about I bring the car in and look at it with you and if it is an easy fix we'll fix it right away. If it is something worse, I'll leave the car with them. They agreed to this. I brought the car up there first thing Friday morning. We get it up on the left and they re-tighten every bolt on the car. We saw the front sway bar move a little when we tightened up one of the bolts, so we suspect that was the culprit. Now the car is acting fine...... for now. Lets hope it stays that way.

In conclusion to my big review I must say that even to this day I am still extremely angry with both Pedder's and MCP. Because of them, I feel I risked my life driving my car with faulty suspension and because of them I almost destroyed my tranny and my car. They cost me a ton of time, money and head aches. They can try and sugar coat this all they want but what I have said actually happened to me and is 100% true. Although I mostly blame MCP for all of this, I think Pedders deserves a little credit too because their lack of efforts to resolve my issues and the fact that they brag so much about their highly trained Pedder's dealers. It's not even like I'm the first LX they have worked on, they've done about 3 or 4 LXs and at least 1 Track 2 before mine. Till this day, I still have yet to get an apology from MCP, they seem to care less about my issues than Pedders does. Pedders and MCP both make out like this isn't a big deal well IMO this is a huge deal. I don't care how complex the Pedders system is, when I am paying someone $5k+ for a job I want it done right. MCP knew there was clanking coming from the car when they gave it back to me because they told me about it. This is totally unacceptable.
 
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#57 ·
Communication...The Key to Satisfaction

This seems to me to be an install quality issue, and a communications issue.
The communications issue started from the get-go; from what I read, I would assume that the shop thought Metgo had the torque converter for Day 1, and Metgo assumed the shop had the kit parts for Day 1. They both may have discussed this on the morning of Day 1, and Metgo chose to leave the car.

This isn't like an unscheduled maintenance - hey, my car is broke, fix it. Without the parts on-hand, there's no need for the shop to keep the car, or for Metgo to leave the car. In my view, Metgo and the shop should have maintained communication until both had the necessary parts to move forward; then make the appointment. Even of the shop had an airbill number to track the shipment, it's coming from, well, down under, so it has to clear customs; timely delivery cannot be guaranteed.

Pedders, nor Pete, are responsible for the torque converter/transmission cooler line issues; they don't really belong in a Pedders review (although it was nice of them to tell Metgo there was an issue at the time it was observed).

How many of us have had quality issues with our Dodge dealer, and this could be any number of them! Yet none of us, to my knoweldge, are subtly (or otherwise) knocking on corporate Dodge's door for renumeration from these bad dealer experiences. Why is Pedders any different? Ford used to advertise that 'Quality is Job 1', yet they never made payouts for bad dealership services.

Someone checking the integrity of your installation on their back with the car on ramps is extremely limited in what can be checked. That check really needed to be done in the air, wheels off. I don't know what dynamics were at play that this became the best solution at the time; it should have been done differently if it were possible to do so.

I can say that I have been driving for more than 30+ years (specifics aren't relevant). Driving a Pedderized (Trac-II) Charger has been the most enjoyable drive in all my years of driving (and we're not talking a trip around the block - several hundred miles). Given the money and an appropriate vehicle, I would not hesitate to Pedderize it.

However, I definitely would not use your local shop to complete this work. Regardless of wherer it was done, I would take full advantage of greater communication opportunities and utilizing the 'Open-shop' policy while your car is being Pedderized (preferably with a mechanic friend or relative).

It isn't Pedders or Pete that has let you down - it is the local shop. Pedders can certainly take your input and disqualify the shop, but I am not privy to their legal arrangements; I can't say that it can legally be done. Better communication (orally, not via PM's or E-mail) would have been far better communication methods, and certainly allowed you to be more direct about your expectations or desires.

And to clear up any questions that may arise from this post... I am not a Pedders dealer, distributor, agent, or employee; I am not a Dodge dealer, distributor, agent, or employee; I am not an owner or employee of a business engaged with or by Pedders or Dodge; I do not own a Pedderized Charger; I do not own a Charger. And don;t waste your time looking for any of my previous posts - this is my first.

Let the flames begin!
 
#58 ·
How many of us have had quality issues with our Dodge dealer, and this could be any number of them! Yet none of us, to my knoweldge, are subtly (or otherwise) knocking on corporate Dodge's door for renumeration from these bad dealer experiences. Why is Pedders any different? Ford used to advertise that 'Quality is Job 1', yet they never made payouts for bad dealership services.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
#59 · (Edited)
Just some personal thoughts on this.

It seems incredibly short sighted to say that you are not going to use a vendor based upon one person's review. You've got 2 extremely different versions here, so who to believe? IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.

If you are unsure which set of events is reliable, do your own research don't rely solely on this forum. It's tough to translate real emotion from a forum post to the real world. Call the vendor yourself. Call the install shop yourself. get a sense of how they operate. If you are still unsure, heck, drive down to the shop and ask to see some of their work. If they stand behind their work I seriously doubt they would have a problem with you looking at their products.

But to write-off a vendor based on a bad review is nuts IMO. Reviews are only good for general information, regardless of how comprehensively it was written. If you really want the full picture you've got to do the legwork.

I'm not affiliated with any vendors and am not for or against either party in this thread.

Just my .02.
 
#61 ·
way to go metgo, your thread got me banned from the lx :grin:

I will not respond here, other than to say i believe it to be the shops complete fault, not pedders, other than parts delivery which is probably ups or whoever there.

durn that other forum
 
#66 ·
yep, goodbye thread :sad:
 
#64 ·
What an unfortunate situation and it's too bad that Pete at Pedders didn't decide to make lemonade out of lemons. Ah well. I'm grateful forums exist so that I can recon vendors and products and draw conclusions on my own. Hearing from manufacturers and users of their products was what first drew me to the forums when I was looking for a CAI.
 
#72 ·
Whenever I decide to make a large purchase, I solicit input from multiple sources and consider them all. Those sources include, to a large part, forums such as this one. However, if I hear one horror story, it takes a whole lot of good stories to create a comfort level with me. It's also difficult to read anyone's mind and understand their motivation to either bash or support a vendor and/or a manufacturer so I’ll try to take all of this at face value and proceed accordingly.

It's an unfortunate situation that happened to Mike, but in my opinion, it's even more unfortunate to see how just a few members of this forum seem comfortable with name calling. This was supposed to be a community of like-minded people sharing a common interest but this thread is starting to appear like the Hatfields and McCoys lining up for war on either side of the valley. On one side are a large number of people who are rightfully concerned to hear of a fellow member's bad experience and on the other side are a few people who, for whatever reason, are staunchly defending the vendor/manufacturer that they happen to like and trust. Fine, I get it, but how about we stop accusing people of lying or sabotaging their own cars or faking photographs or whatever else it is that I’m seeing here and not liking. :SM130: :slap:


I still hope that either MCP or Pedders or both step up accept responsibility by making Mike whole. Whatever form that takes is up to them to agree upon.
 
#84 ·
Yes - there may have been splitting on some bushes - this is a risk with this design and will happen eventually due to ultra-violet light and oxygen attacking the rubber - but not in a year or two (unless the vehicle has been used pretty much exclusively for racing and itself has been over-fatigued!).

I wonder how many of these 'splits' occurred after the 'tester' had 'over-excersized' a part-worn bush (ok abused it...) in front of a customer!!!
I was in the shop when they took off my rear cradle to put Pedder's in. This was done around 18000 miles on the odo, and I saw split bushes. I saw these split bushes before they were separated from the subframe and no one had a chance to modify them before I saw them; like I said I was there when the dropped it and was there during the initial inspection while it was still on the jack. And I have witnesses to that fact.

I'll try to remember when I get home to go through the pictures. I don't know if I have any pictures that show the split before a lever was used, but I didn't need a lever to see the split first hand.

I also had bare metal at the subframe mounts on the body from (I presume, since I can't actually witness this) the subframe moving around while driving and rubbing off the paint. I can't say that Pedders fixed this (again, I can't actually witness it) but what they did to fix it makes sense to me.

While your logic about the lever is completely valid, that does not necessarily mean you can imply they altered the bush or that split bushes do not happen with OEM equipment under any driving style.
 
#85 ·
I was in the shop when they took off my rear cradle to put Pedder's in. This was done around 18000 miles on the odo, and I saw split bushes. I saw these split bushes before they were separated from the subframe and no one had a chance to modify them before I saw them; like I said I was there when the dropped it and was there during the initial inspection while it was still on the jack. And I have witnesses to that fact.

Fine - you will note that I actually did say it was possible. Not that it was impossible. 18,000 miles is a very low mileage for this kind of failure - how many years was this? If these had been in that state at 18,000 and within 3 years, this would have been a warranty claim. Was the car seen by a dealer (who would LOVE the business) prior to the Pedders touch? Also - what do the bushes look like new? Do they have slots designed into them, which have got ragged with flexing, or was the rubber actually perished? Was the splitting all the way through, or was it at the surface (more akin to cracking)?

I'll try to remember when I get home to go through the pictures. I don't know if I have any pictures that show the split before a lever was used, but I didn't need a lever to see the split first hand.

Would love to see where the splite were - thanks. And the use of that lever would most certainly have made any rip far worse - there is no way those bushes were supposed to be swung around like that. When the sub-frame is bolted to the chassis, does the bush get compressed between the fixing bolt/plate and the chassis underside? There is a reason I need to know this.

I also had bare metal at the subframe mounts on the body from (I presume, since I can't actually witness this) the subframe moving around while driving and rubbing off the paint. I can't say that Pedders fixed this (again, I can't actually witness it) but what they did to fix it makes sense to me.

The rubber flexing would have eroded any layer of paint between the sub-frame and the chassis. Bushes cerainly can wear away paint and this is not a defining clue as to bush failure. The sub-frame is designed to move in relation to the chassis as this is what absorb vibration/noise. I would not expect to see paint still present under the bushes, TBH. However, I would need to closely inspect the sub-frame in place to see what should be worn from where.

While your logic about the lever is completely valid, that does not necessarily mean you can imply they altered the bush or that split bushes do not happen with OEM equipment under any driving style.

I did not say that bushes never split. I pointed out that the video shows a situation that the bushes would never be exposed to. It has clearly been filmed to try and scare people just like you. Unless they can chuck a car on a lift and get the sub-frame to tilt over 30 degrees away from the chassis (which makes me giggle, thinking about it!) this is a totally fictitious event and not a true representation of the deformation of the bushes during use - or a true representation of what the subframe would be doing......

Yes - bushes can split. Depends on the use of the vehicle and the time that the vehicle has been on the road. Will small splits affect the system and make it dangerous - heck no! Is that was is being claimed - heck yes! And it is wrong.

As a point of note - if the bushes are actually crushed in between the chassis and the sub-frame when installed, small splits in the bushes (I'm assuming it was in the webbing area of he bush - between two substantial blocks of rubber?) won't make a huge amount of difference to performance IMHO. Now - if your centre sleeve had fallen away from the outer sleeve of the bush - I'd have been much more alarmed!

I'm not getting at you - you put yor trust in sales people. We all do. I just get sick of scaremongering whilst showing a 'test' that has no validity (in reality).
 
#86 · (Edited)
I'm not getting at you - you put yor trust in sales people. We all do. I just get sick of scaremongering whilst showing a 'test' that has no validity (in reality).
I'm not taking it personally. I actually did Pedders because I was able to get to a killer deal by being a shop's first car more so than seeking it out and getting sold on it. The information I had on Pedders was good (GTO forums, Pedder's web site) and the ideas intrigued me and made sense based on my knowledge. The theory of replacing the bushes etc was run through my trusted independent mechanic and had solid reasoning to both of us. In other words, opportunity knocked and I answered (with some research inbetween).

Now that its done, I'm sold on it. . . and recommend it.

Now that I've thought about it, my review at the time had ALL the pictures:
http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70231

But the flickr link seems to have died (my pro account expired today apparently, and yahoo login is blocked at work so I can't fix it until I get home).

Fine - you will note that I actually did say it was possible. Not that it was impossible. 18,000 miles is a very low mileage for this kind of failure - how many years was this? If these had been in that state at 18,000 and within 3 years, this would have been a warranty claim. Was the car seen by a dealer (who would LOVE the business) prior to the Pedders touch? Also - what do the bushes look like new? Do they have slots designed into them, which have got ragged with flexing, or was the rubber actually perished? Was the splitting all the way through, or was it at the surface (more akin to cracking)?
You did, I didn't mean to pounce on you. My reading of your post certainly made it seem like you were trying to say it doesn't happen in a statistically relevant level of occurance. My car is an '06, on the road since July 3rd, 2006. No, the dealer did not see the problem. My dealer and I had a very bad relationship before they were closed, and unfortunately they were the best dealer within 30 miles so I haven't established a relationship with a new dealer. And I didn't know they were split, a credit to your point. The splits were jagged anyway, they looked like rips, but did not penetrate all the way through the bush.
 
#87 ·
I'm not taking it personally. I actually did Pedders because I was able to get to a killer deal by being a shop's first car more so than seeking it out and getting sold on it. The information I had on Pedders was good (GTO forums, Pedder's web site) and the ideas intrigued me and made sense based on my knowledge. The theory of replacing the bushes etc was run through my trusted independent mechanic and had solid reasoning to both of us. In other words, opportunity knocked and I answered (with some research inbetween).

Now that its done, I'm sold on it. . . and recommend it.

Now that I've thought about it, my review at the time had ALL the pictures:
http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70231

But the flickr link seems to have died (my pro account expired today apparently, and yahoo login is blocked at work so I can't fix it until I get home).
Cheers buddy - you had your reasons and they were the right ones for you - so no harm, no foul :).
 
#92 ·
all i know is that STL thinks shes on top of the world.
im gonna throw that in here without reading the other garbage except what is said about here was enough to warrant my remark.

i would disregard anything he she it says. its garbage.
 
#93 ·
Bush Integrity

I view the purpose of a bushing to be a limiter... it can be an isolator or insulator as Arfur has suggested. It can be made of various hardness levels of rubber, poly, moly, etc..

My view is somewhat aligned with Arfur, but somewhat aligned with Pedders; once the bushing has cracked, split, or otherwise become compromised, it hasn't failed until the rubber can no longer limit any movement with even the slightest force applied. But it's ability to perform as designed is now compromised; if it could withstand a force of 2000 pounds before it cracked, split, or otherwise became compromised, it can no longer withstand that same amount for force with the same limit (restriction) in movement; it will now allow further movement than before.

Some, most, or (all -1) drivers (one can't use absolutes in this thread, apparently) will notice a change in their cars behavior. As time progresses, the crack may become bigger, the wear may accelerate from exposure to road salt, grime, water, oil, and grease (just to name a few). It will eventually fail to the point that it no longer limits movement; I can't say tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, or you may have sold the car before it outright fails.

I doubt that even those mechanically inclined that are reading this thread are wanting to drop the rear cradly every few months or thousands of miles (some interval comfortable to them) to check on the integrity of the cradle bushings. Even suggesting that there may be a need to do so implies that there was a design or execution flaw in this area. Yet, as far as I know, there are no active TSB's or other informational documentation suggesting that they be checked.

Certainly more so due to age than anything else, I just recently had most of the rear bushings replaced on a 1997 Pathfinder. None of the bushes were split as in Arfur's description (I could not see through any of them). Some were cracked; some had chunks of rubber missing. This vehicle would start rocking after going over a bumpy road patch, like you sometimes encounter on a heavy truck route... One would have to drive about a quarter of a mile after the bumpy patch before the vehicle was under control again. We dropped one end of the front axle brace, and the remaining bush still attached to the car allowed that arm to move in and out more than 18 inches with only the slightest effort. We did the bushings in the upper and lower arms, and all is well again. I guess my point is that with enough wear and/or age, it is possible to have a dangerous situation without seeing the splitting that Arfur suggests.

So Pedders may be more right if they said that this will become a dangerous condition if left uncorrected. Dodge has not seemingly stepped up with their own solution to bushings that are cracked in 18,000 miles or 19 or so months of use (as Bandgeek99 had observed), so who else (besides Pedders) has a solution to the Bush question?
 
#94 ·
All suspension wear is insidious in that it is incremental. Every single mile you drive causes the suspension to ever so incrementally degrade. You don't wake up one morning and say my suspension has gone bad, well maybe you do but it happened ever so slowly that most people don't notice. That is why at Pedders we advocate inspection and not the arbitrary replacement of parts. If you are servicing a large number of the same vehicle you could make assumptions that at this number of miles these repairs or adjustments are needed based on what you have seen. While you might be close the only way to know is to inspect the car. That is why our inspections are done with the vehicle owner present and participating every step of the way. You see what we see at the same time.



What are you options, very limited. It is a huge investment in research and development to provide a bush that has superior performance to the OE materials and yet is not boy racer rock hard as a daily driver. My guess is that they will be other companies in this market, but with the economy in the current state and the end of production for the LX nearing the end there may not be. More would be better. Then the guys at brand-x could take their turn at driving discussion and bringing to light issues that exist in the LX chassis. Across platforms, you'll find some complete suspensions available for the Mustang from other brands. Pedders is one of a very few companies that makes a commitment to full suspension development for selected chassises. You can use an individual Pedders bit in combination with OE and or brand-x and generally get a good result. You get the best result when a suspension is tuned much like an OE system where the bushes, coils, dampers and sway bars are tuned to work together.

Some of forum life is a royal pain in the ---. Since Pedders made the posts regarding the control arm and radius rod arm bushes a number of forum members have had CHRYSLER warranty their repairs. Some opted for Pedders replacements. Some were offended by the wording. The good news is a picture is a picture. Some of the critical LX bushes not only wear they tear and completely fail. Mike (dms) carries Miester's failed bush as a trophy. It is hands down the worst we have ever seen on any vehicle of any make. Go Miester! Our objective is to present information and contribute to the community. Since the posts prompted people to check their cars and get them serviced they worked. Was the wording perfect -- no. Does it really matter that the wording is perfect -- sorry but it really doesn't. If we waited for perfect we would still be editing the post, getting ready to post, thinking about the wording of the post.... I seem to remember people initially saying no such problem existed and why was it only Pedders making these claims? Because it is what we found in the field so we told you what we found. We try to contribute and succeed more often than not. Many of you must feel the same way as you are still buying product for your LX today. Sometime we don't and you let us know :ack:
 
#101 · (Edited)
All suspension wear is insidious in that it is incremental. Every single mile you drive causes the suspension to ever so incrementally degrade. You don't wake up one morning and say my suspension has gone bad, well maybe you do but it happened ever so slowly that most people don't notice. That is why at Pedders we advocate inspection and not the arbitrary replacement of parts. If you are servicing a large number of the same vehicle you could make assumptions that at this number of miles these repairs or adjustments are needed based on what you have seen. While you might be close the only way to know is to inspect the car. That is why our inspections are done with the vehicle owner present and participating every step of the way. You see what we see at the same time.



What are you options, very limited. It is a huge investment in research and development to provide a bush that has superior performance to the OE materials and yet is not boy racer rock hard as a daily driver. My guess is that they will be other companies in this market, but with the economy in the current state and the end of production for the LX nearing the end there may not be.

As of right now, i made calls to Energy Suspension and Prothane today after reading the post on LX where someone mentioned they are coming out with kits. from the calls, those kits should be out near the end of the year (along with the redesigned volant intake for the 3.5L :D ).

Energy suspension usually makes a street version and a track version, both priced basically the same so it gives you choice in the durometer of the bushing used. this is so you dont necessarily have to have a rock hard suspension...you get the street kit.

so yea, our options are currently limited, and even more by the current pricing

but hopefully soon instead of just 1900$ + for a total bushing kit, we may be looking at 200-300$ for a total kit and our choice of hardness for street or track. well over a grand less and have an option of stiffness, cant really beat that...




More would be better. Then the guys at brand-x could take their turn at driving discussion and bringing to light issues that exist in the LX chassis. Across platforms, you'll find some complete suspensions available for the Mustang from other brands. Pedders is one of a very few companies that makes a commitment to full suspension development for selected chassises. You can use an individual Pedders bit in combination with OE and or brand-x and generally get a good result. You get the best result when a suspension is tuned much like an OE system where the bushes, coils, dampers and sway bars are tuned to work together.

more would def be better... monopolizing anything is really only good for the profiters. and even then its questionable for how long. when theres competition, both sides sell more and usually make more money in the long run.

theres more testing, and info to be input from more people having the product as well as two companies instead of one testing.

not sure if i agree fully... (maybe like 75% no 25% yea ;) ) that the best result is achieved when you use all of one brand cause they were "tuned" to work together... ask anyone into car audio.... in terms of suspension, one can use all parts from one brand and still be lacking something, then switch to coilovers, or a stiffer spring from another brand and get the best results for that individual. just cause a group of things come from one brand and are supposed to "work best" together, doesnt mean it will work best together for everyone. we all have different requirements on what we want in handling or anything else for that matter.... thats what make true car enthusiasts so great... the differences between. but the kit is basically tuned to the likes of someone at pedders, not for all of us. (with struts and springs only being combined to work together...thats where most of my yes is... with something like bushings and struts/springs or coilovers thats where my no is on the subject)



i agree, theres many mustang kits out there....

theres also FOR EXAMPLE ONLY....2004-2006 GTO kits made by Energy suspension. i believe the total bushing kit ranges in the 179-220$ range.

their kit includes:

Front End Control Arm Bushing Set
Rear End Control Arm Bushing Set
Front Sway Bar Endlink Set
Front Sway Bar Bushing Set
Complete Rear Sway Bar Bushing Set
Rear Sub-Frame Bushing Set (street firm) or (race firm)

$172.40 http://shopping.msn.com/Prices/shp/?itemId=548376068
$197.00 http://www.suspension.com/pontiac.htm

those same parts from pedders would undoubtably be far more, i stopped adding once i got over 300$...

so the question FOR MYSELF still remains, what exactly are we paying more for, in the same parts? although i notice with other cars, your prices arent nearly as high as with the LX platform for similar sized parts...... but if you can be honest, does it really cost as much as you charge for production of the bushings? is the markup truly and honestly as high as your price reflects to make each part? or is this another dodge/chrysler thing where its just severely overpriced like the clips to install an SRT8 rear spoiler??? if you're in the mood for honesty, it would be a good answer :bigthumb:

i try to spend wisely, but i for one would be PAH-ISSED if i went out and bought 2 radius bushings for 300$....or a total kit from pedders for 2000$ only to have energy suspension come out with a kit, with EVERYTHING for 2-300$....a kit that was basically the same, just a different name.


maybe I AM missing something, but is it 156$ per radius rod bushing, or is that for both right and the left side meaning you need two for the entire car?


Some of forum life is a royal pain in the ---. Since Pedders made the posts regarding the control arm and radius rod arm bushes a number of forum members have had CHRYSLER warranty their repairs. Some opted for Pedders replacements. Some were offended by the wording. The good news is a picture is a picture. Some of the critical LX bushes not only wear they tear and completely fail. Mike (dms) carries Miester's failed bush as a trophy. It is hands down the worst we have ever seen on any vehicle of any make. Go Miester! Our objective is to present information and contribute to the community. Since the posts prompted people to check their cars and get them serviced they worked. Was the wording perfect -- no. Does it really matter that the wording is perfect -- sorry but it really doesn't. If we waited for perfect we would still be editing the post, getting ready to post, thinking about the wording of the post.... I seem to remember people initially saying no such problem existed and why was it only Pedders making these claims? Because it is what we found in the field so we told you what we found. We try to contribute and succeed more often than not. Many of you must feel the same way as you are still buying product for your LX today. Sometime we don't and you let us know :ack:
as for the forum ordeal, the wording wasnt perfect, and making people aware was the good side....appreciations for that... but in having the perfect wording, theres a few words you have to not just throw around. without rehashing the post, it DOES matter. when it was posted it was like yelling "bomb" at an airport or "fire" in a movie theater. you found an extreme in just a couple of cars, wear in others that more than likely is the norm. chrysler is NOW aware of the problem if people have gotten replacements, but if it was a serious as made out to be, there would have been a recall by now. theres none that i am aware of...

but thats back then. i dont expect perfection out of anyone really, i know i'm not perfect myself. but upon any mishaps or screw ups, admit it and improve is just the way i carry myself and thats more of what i would expect from anyone else really.

i dont think anyone questions contributions to the community. sometimes its just the way those contributions are introduced. :bigthumb:;)
 
#95 · (Edited)
#97 ·
My Flickr account is back up. As promised here's the pics.

Here is a bush off of my car unmolested straight off the car:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bandgeek99/2329224261/in/set-72157604107813353/

And here it is again being molested:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bandgeek99/2330058594/in/set-72157604107813353/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bandgeek99/2329237393/in/set-72157604107813353/

There are more if you go through the link in my previous post.
Thanks buddy. TBH, the bush looks pretty good cosidering the horror stories. The cracking/split (whatever) is through the thin part of the rubber inbetween the rubber blocks - which I suspected it would be - so it's not even through the area which takes most of the abuse. As for the marks on the chassis - not particularly a good protective coating provided by DCX, however, there is nothing nasty about it and looks to be normal wear and tear due to normal operation of the bush with respect to the way it is mounted in the frame.

The bushes did not need to be swapped out due to condition. they seemed fine to me. The abuse sure made them look knackered - but they weren't.

OK - I've said my bit - others have said theirs. Lets hope the 'dangerousness' of the bushes being even slightly perished gets dropped - as it is not true.
 
#99 ·
ive got 2 pedders bushings in my car. probably the best 150 bucks i spent on this car (for both).

the bushes may not have been torn that i replaced, but they totally change the feel of that section of the car. (front/steering)

i have also been shown multiple rear bushings in my rear cradle. not the big hard to get to ones, because well... you cant really see em all to well, however. i have multiple cracked/torn bushings and i also have a "shake" that comes from the rear as if the car just doesnt sit firm on the rear end.

is it the bushings? i dono for certain, but id bet money it is because my car did not used to ride like this. i dont fear for catastrophic failure. but there is a difference in ride quality. period.

you can speculate on pedders all you want. take the time to meet them in person and gain a real feel for their knowledge. any body can write things on the internet, just like i do, but you dont really see whats going on til you meet the guys.

if they didnt do your ****ty install themselves, how is it their fault? whether the shop is capable of doing or not may be the question. but even if their the best in the business at what they do, if theyre not going to invest the time, its not going to get done right.

sounds like your shop is a bunch of asses even if theyre good. bottom line.
 
#104 ·
ive got 2 pedders bushings in my car. probably the best 150 bucks i spent on this car (for both).

the bushes may not have been torn that i replaced, but they totally change the feel of that section of the car. (front/steering)
I agree with you there. I knew for a fact that there was nothing wrong with my OEM bushings when I decided to do the track 2. The only reason I did the bushings is because I knew they would make the car handle better.
 
#102 ·
SO I have spent nearly 45 minutes reading all this. I also took my personal knowledge and experience with some of the people involved into account.
I have "known" insofar as one CAN know someone from a simple online forum, Mike, for nearly a year. I would believe his side of the story on many things, and I simply cannot see him making the important parts of this story up. No one has disputed that the install which was to have taken 2 or 3 days took 5 from the time the installation started. No one has disputed that the vehicle was not buttoned up when it was returned. No one has said why the tc and cooler were not even started on until the pedders bushings and kit showed up (sorry I refuse to call them bits and bushes. Bushes are for yards and women who dont own a good razor). There is no good reason that I have seen as to why the exhaust was not replaced to the specs it came in with. It didnt bang or clank before he brought it in.
I find 95% of the fault here lying with the installer. The only reason I find issue with Pedders is that they are vociferous in their touting the quality, service, and the quality of their Pedders authorized installers. In a perfect world, the installing shop would have made an offer for comprimise, Mike would have accepted, and this would be over. In an imperfect world, had the installer not made an offer, pedders would have put a little pressure on them to see that the issue was resolved. In the grand scheme of things, MCD MIGHT lose business from 3 to 5 Charger owners in the area. It is Pedders who has the greater stake in this, since they could potentially lose hundreds of customers.
For Pedders to dismiss Mike's valid points (and maybe invalid ones if there are some) shows a flaw in the customer service philosophy of the company. You can not make all the customers happy all the time, but to be seen to not even try when there is an unhappy customer just shouts of a lack of basic business principles.
I do not believe Pedders can say there was not a problem, as they found problems when they had the car on the ramps. One small problem found that way has to make you wonder what they didn't or couldn't find considering the circumstances of the inspection. To make excuses or to say that this or that part are not important is just an attempt to deflect away the blame, and avoiding taking responsibility for certifying a shop who in this case dropped the ball.
I have heard NOTHING but outstanding praise of the product. If I had the money, it would be something I would do. When one hears about the difference in the ride feel between an RT and an SRT, the RT owner naturally would seek to find some of what is lacking. However, while Mike's claims would not have changed my mind about Pedders, their response in the posts here have. I do not expect Pedders to compensate Mike, but I DO expect them to lay it on the installer, who is after all the one who screwed the proverbial pooch, and let them know that MCD's actions have been detrimental to Pedders business practice, and that MCD should make right.
I would also say that, when looking at this story, which clearly does have 3 points of view, in my mind, some weight MUST be given to an outstanding member with several thousand posts, compared to others who are either in this debate for profit (The Pedders folks, no blame in that) and some who are insinuating Mike's motives, and questioning his integrity. 77 posts just does not hold much weight.
 
#105 ·
#103 · (Edited)
I did not read this entire thread, but I did read all 170+ post in the other forum regarding this incident. So, there is really not much that I can add that have not been posted. One point that really pissed me off was when that one member attacked Metgo's Character and incinuate that he has other motives for posting this. All I have to say is that I have not had the opportunity to meet Metgo in person, but from our discussions here during the last year or so, I believe him to be an outstanding individual and I believe his story to be legit. After reading Pete's response on the other tread, it just reinforced my believe in Metgo's story. Pete's arrogance and lack of care for the customer really upset me, especially when he joke about this incident in a public forum like his post below.


My transmission was almost ruined by MCP. Pedders found a wet clamp on my transmission cooler. Pedders tightened it at the track. Pedders told me I was low on fluid. So knowing I was low on fluid I went out and raced on the track and drove all the way back to Saint Louis from Ohio. Then I complained on the forum that MCP almost ruined my transmission because I raced it and drove it when I knew it was low on fluid. I want compensation for this!

You just lost another customer Pete, but I know you don't care, since as you mentioned earlier, all the negative pubicity is stimulating more business for you.
 
#106 ·
Well I think everything that can be said has been said. So I guess that about wraps things up. Thank you very much to those of you who supported me through out this whole thing, I hope you guys have learned as much from this experience as I have.

Mods, can you please lock this thread?
 
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