[Samoan Tsunami]

All suspension wear is insidious in that it is incremental. Every single mile you drive causes the suspension to ever so incrementally degrade. You don't wake up one morning and say my suspension has gone bad, well maybe you do but it happened ever so slowly that most people don't notice. That is why at Pedders we advocate inspection and not the arbitrary replacement of parts. If you are servicing a large number of the same vehicle you could make assumptions that at this number of miles these repairs or adjustments are needed based on what you have seen. While you might be close the only way to know is to inspect the car. That is why our inspections are done with the vehicle owner present and participating every step of the way. You see what we see at the same time.



What are you options, very limited. It is a huge investment in research and development to provide a bush that has superior performance to the OE materials and yet is not boy racer rock hard as a daily driver. My guess is that they will be other companies in this market, but with the economy in the current state and the end of production for the LX nearing the end there may not be.

As of right now, i made calls to Energy Suspension and Prothane today after reading the post on LX where someone mentioned they are coming out with kits. from the calls, those kits should be out near the end of the year (along with the redesigned volant intake for the 3.5L ).

Energy suspension usually makes a street version and a track version, both priced basically the same so it gives you choice in the durometer of the bushing used. this is so you dont necessarily have to have a rock hard suspension...you get the street kit.

so yea, our options are currently limited, and even more by the current pricing

but hopefully soon instead of just 1900$ + for a total bushing kit, we may be looking at 200-300$ for a total kit and our choice of hardness for street or track. well over a grand less and have an option of stiffness, cant really beat that...



More would be better. Then the guys at brand-x could take their turn at driving discussion and bringing to light issues that exist in the LX chassis. Across platforms, you'll find some complete suspensions available for the Mustang from other brands. Pedders is one of a very few companies that makes a commitment to full suspension development for selected chassises. You can use an individual Pedders bit in combination with OE and or brand-x and generally get a good result. You get the best result when a suspension is tuned much like an OE system where the bushes, coils, dampers and sway bars are tuned to work together.

more would def be better... monopolizing anything is really only good for the profiters. and even then its questionable for how long. when theres competition, both sides sell more and usually make more money in the long run.

theres more testing, and info to be input from more people having the product as well as two companies instead of one testing.

not sure if i agree fully... (maybe like 75% no 25% yea ) that the best result is achieved when you use all of one brand cause they were "tuned" to work together... ask anyone into car audio.... in terms of suspension, one can use all parts from one brand and still be lacking something, then switch to coilovers, or a stiffer spring from another brand and get the best results for that individual. just cause a group of things come from one brand and are supposed to "work best" together, doesnt mean it will work best together for everyone. we all have different requirements on what we want in handling or anything else for that matter.... thats what make true car enthusiasts so great... the differences between. but the kit is basically tuned to the likes of someone at pedders, not for all of us. (with struts and springs only being combined to work together...thats where most of my yes is... with something like bushings and struts/springs or coilovers thats where my no is on the subject)



i agree, theres many mustang kits out there....

theres also FOR EXAMPLE ONLY....2004-2006 GTO kits made by Energy suspension. i believe the total bushing kit ranges in the 179-220$ range.

their kit includes:

Front End Control Arm Bushing Set
Rear End Control Arm Bushing Set
Front Sway Bar Endlink Set
Front Sway Bar Bushing Set
Complete Rear Sway Bar Bushing Set
Rear Sub-Frame Bushing Set (street firm) or (race firm)

$172.40 http://shopping.msn.com/Prices/shp/?itemId=548376068
$197.00 http://www.suspension.com/pontiac.htm

those same parts from pedders would undoubtably be far more, i stopped adding once i got over 300$...

so the question FOR MYSELF still remains, what exactly are we paying more for, in the same parts? although i notice with other cars, your prices arent nearly as high as with the LX platform for similar sized parts...... but if you can be honest, does it really cost as much as you charge for production of the bushings? is the markup truly and honestly as high as your price reflects to make each part? or is this another dodge/chrysler thing where its just severely overpriced like the clips to install an SRT8 rear spoiler??? if you're in the mood for honesty, it would be a good answer :bigthumb:

i try to spend wisely, but i for one would be PAH-ISSED if i went out and bought 2 radius bushings for 300$....or a total kit from pedders for 2000$ only to have energy suspension come out with a kit, with EVERYTHING for 2-300$....a kit that was basically the same, just a different name.


maybe I AM missing something, but is it 156$ per radius rod bushing, or is that for both right and the left side meaning you need two for the entire car?

Some of forum life is a royal pain in the ---. Since Pedders made the posts regarding the control arm and radius rod arm bushes a number of forum members have had CHRYSLER warranty their repairs. Some opted for Pedders replacements. Some were offended by the wording. The good news is a picture is a picture. Some of the critical LX bushes not only wear they tear and completely fail. Mike (dms) carries Miester's failed bush as a trophy. It is hands down the worst we have ever seen on any vehicle of any make. Go Miester! Our objective is to present information and contribute to the community. Since the posts prompted people to check their cars and get them serviced they worked. Was the wording perfect -- no. Does it really matter that the wording is perfect -- sorry but it really doesn't. If we waited for perfect we would still be editing the post, getting ready to post, thinking about the wording of the post.... I seem to remember people initially saying no such problem existed and why was it only Pedders making these claims? Because it is what we found in the field so we told you what we found. We try to contribute and succeed more often than not. Many of you must feel the same way as you are still buying product for your LX today. Sometime we don't and you let us know :ack:

as for the forum ordeal, the wording wasnt perfect, and making people aware was the good side....appreciations for that... but in having the perfect wording, theres a few words you have to not just throw around. without rehashing the post, it DOES matter. when it was posted it was like yelling "bomb" at an airport or "fire" in a movie theater. you found an extreme in just a couple of cars, wear in others that more than likely is the norm. chrysler is NOW aware of the problem if people have gotten replacements, but if it was a serious as made out to be, there would have been a recall by now. theres none that i am aware of...

but thats back then. i dont expect perfection out of anyone really, i know i'm not perfect myself. but upon any mishaps or screw ups, admit it and improve is just the way i carry myself and thats more of what i would expect from anyone else really.

i dont think anyone questions contributions to the community. sometimes its just the way those contributions are introduced. :bigthumb:

 

[TBYDaytona40]

SO I have spent nearly 45 minutes reading all this. I also took my personal knowledge and experience with some of the people involved into account.
I have "known" insofar as one CAN know someone from a simple online forum, Mike, for nearly a year. I would believe his side of the story on many things, and I simply cannot see him making the important parts of this story up. No one has disputed that the install which was to have taken 2 or 3 days took 5 from the time the installation started. No one has disputed that the vehicle was not buttoned up when it was returned. No one has said why the tc and cooler were not even started on until the pedders bushings and kit showed up (sorry I refuse to call them bits and bushes. Bushes are for yards and women who dont own a good razor). There is no good reason that I have seen as to why the exhaust was not replaced to the specs it came in with. It didnt bang or clank before he brought it in.
I find 95% of the fault here lying with the installer. The only reason I find issue with Pedders is that they are vociferous in their touting the quality, service, and the quality of their Pedders authorized installers. In a perfect world, the installing shop would have made an offer for comprimise, Mike would have accepted, and this would be over. In an imperfect world, had the installer not made an offer, pedders would have put a little pressure on them to see that the issue was resolved. In the grand scheme of things, MCD MIGHT lose business from 3 to 5 Charger owners in the area. It is Pedders who has the greater stake in this, since they could potentially lose hundreds of customers.
For Pedders to dismiss Mike's valid points (and maybe invalid ones if there are some) shows a flaw in the customer service philosophy of the company. You can not make all the customers happy all the time, but to be seen to not even try when there is an unhappy customer just shouts of a lack of basic business principles.
I do not believe Pedders can say there was not a problem, as they found problems when they had the car on the ramps. One small problem found that way has to make you wonder what they didn't or couldn't find considering the circumstances of the inspection. To make excuses or to say that this or that part are not important is just an attempt to deflect away the blame, and avoiding taking responsibility for certifying a shop who in this case dropped the ball.
I have heard NOTHING but outstanding praise of the product. If I had the money, it would be something I would do. When one hears about the difference in the ride feel between an RT and an SRT, the RT owner naturally would seek to find some of what is lacking. However, while Mike's claims would not have changed my mind about Pedders, their response in the posts here have. I do not expect Pedders to compensate Mike, but I DO expect them to lay it on the installer, who is after all the one who screwed the proverbial pooch, and let them know that MCD's actions have been detrimental to Pedders business practice, and that MCD should make right.
I would also say that, when looking at this story, which clearly does have 3 points of view, in my mind, some weight MUST be given to an outstanding member with several thousand posts, compared to others who are either in this debate for profit (The Pedders folks, no blame in that) and some who are insinuating Mike's motives, and questioning his integrity. 77 posts just does not hold much weight.

 

[CHARLIE]

I did not read this entire thread, but I did read all 170+ post in the other forum regarding this incident. So, there is really not much that I can add that have not been posted. One point that really pissed me off was when that one member attacked Metgo's Character and incinuate that he has other motives for posting this. All I have to say is that I have not had the opportunity to meet Metgo in person, but from our discussions here during the last year or so, I believe him to be an outstanding individual and I believe his story to be legit. After reading Pete's response on the other tread, it just reinforced my believe in Metgo's story. Pete's arrogance and lack of care for the customer really upset me, especially when he joke about this incident in a public forum like his post below.


My transmission was almost ruined by MCP. Pedders found a wet clamp on my transmission cooler. Pedders tightened it at the track. Pedders told me I was low on fluid. So knowing I was low on fluid I went out and raced on the track and drove all the way back to Saint Louis from Ohio. Then I complained on the forum that MCP almost ruined my transmission because I raced it and drove it when I knew it was low on fluid. I want compensation for this!

You just lost another customer Pete, but I know you don't care, since as you mentioned earlier, all the negative pubicity is stimulating more business for you.

 

[metgo]

ive got 2 pedders bushings in my car. probably the best 150 bucks i spent on this car (for both).

the bushes may not have been torn that i replaced, but they totally change the feel of that section of the car. (front/steering)

I agree with you there. I knew for a fact that there was nothing wrong with my OEM bushings when I decided to do the track 2. The only reason I did the bushings is because I knew they would make the car handle better.

 

[metgo]

SO I have spent nearly 45 minutes reading all this. I also took my personal knowledge and experience with some of the people involved into account.
I have "known" insofar as one CAN know someone from a simple online forum, Mike, for nearly a year. I would believe his side of the story on many things, and I simply cannot see him making the important parts of this story up. No one has disputed that the install which was to have taken 2 or 3 days took 5 from the time the installation started. No one has disputed that the vehicle was not buttoned up when it was returned. No one has said why the tc and cooler were not even started on until the pedders bushings and kit showed up (sorry I refuse to call them bits and bushes. Bushes are for yards and women who dont own a good razor). There is no good reason that I have seen as to why the exhaust was not replaced to the specs it came in with. It didnt bang or clank before he brought it in.
I find 95% of the fault here lying with the installer. The only reason I find issue with Pedders is that they are vociferous in their touting the quality, service, and the quality of their Pedders authorized installers. In a perfect world, the installing shop would have made an offer for comprimise, Mike would have accepted, and this would be over. In an imperfect world, had the installer not made an offer, pedders would have put a little pressure on them to see that the issue was resolved. In the grand scheme of things, MCD MIGHT lose business from 3 to 5 Charger owners in the area. It is Pedders who has the greater stake in this, since they could potentially lose hundreds of customers.
For Pedders to dismiss Mike's valid points (and maybe invalid ones if there are some) shows a flaw in the customer service philosophy of the company. You can not make all the customers happy all the time, but to be seen to not even try when there is an unhappy customer just shouts of a lack of basic business principles.
I do not believe Pedders can say there was not a problem, as they found problems when they had the car on the ramps. One small problem found that way has to make you wonder what they didn't or couldn't find considering the circumstances of the inspection. To make excuses or to say that this or that part are not important is just an attempt to deflect away the blame, and avoiding taking responsibility for certifying a shop who in this case dropped the ball.
I have heard NOTHING but outstanding praise of the product. If I had the money, it would be something I would do. When one hears about the difference in the ride feel between an RT and an SRT, the RT owner naturally would seek to find some of what is lacking. However, while Mike's claims would not have changed my mind about Pedders, their response in the posts here have. I do not expect Pedders to compensate Mike, but I DO expect them to lay it on the installer, who is after all the one who screwed the proverbial pooch, and let them know that MCD's actions have been detrimental to Pedders business practice, and that MCD should make right.
I would also say that, when looking at this story, which clearly does have 3 points of view, in my mind, some weight MUST be given to an outstanding member with several thousand posts, compared to others who are either in this debate for profit (The Pedders folks, no blame in that) and some who are insinuating Mike's motives, and questioning his integrity. 77 posts just does not hold much weight.

Took you long enough to show up :bigthumb:

Wait till you read the thread I start on LXF, it is even more intense.
http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=121551

 

[metgo]

Well I think everything that can be said has been said. So I guess that about wraps things up. Thank you very much to those of you who supported me through out this whole thing, I hope you guys have learned as much from this experience as I have.

Mods, can you please lock this thread?