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My Pedders Experience

23244 Views 105 Replies 29 Participants Last post by  metgo
I hate to post bad reviews especially in situations like this where a supporting vendor is evolved but I have to be honest. I think my Pedder's setup is great and the car handles amazing but I had so many issues a long the way that it almost doesn't seem worth it to me now. First off let me say that Pedders and Mid Coast Performance (my local Pedder dealer) have the worst customer service I have ever delt with. It is so bad that it is laughable. Here is how it all went down.

Back on 5-15-08 I found out about a shop in the St. Louis area called Mid Coast Performance from this thread , turns out they were having some event called “Pedders Day”. The day after I found out about this shop I called them up to see if they would install a torque converter for me and setup an appointment for Friday 5-30-08.

The next week I ended up going to their Pedders Day on 5-24-08. I had a great time. I got some free food, a 28 point inspection and best of all I got to ride in shop Owner Gene’s Pedderized Charger R/T. I was very impressed with his car and told him I plan on doing some suspension work in the very near future. A few days after on 5-28-08 I called Gene and let him know I wanted to do the Full Track 2 setup. We agreed to have it started on 5-30-08 when I drop my car off for the torque converter install. The next day I found out that I wasn’t going to have my torque converter in time for the install so we agreed to push the appoint back to Monday June 2nd. Gene told me they could get started on the car Monday morning and it was a 2-3 day install with about 14-16 hours of labor. I told him I’d bring the converter up as soon as I got it so they could complete the install and he said that was fine.

On Monday June 2nd I drop my car off with Mid Coast Performance at 7:30 AM. The guy that was working when I dropped it off told me “We'll start working on it right away”. Two days later I finally get my torque converter, I rush it up to MCP and when I got there I noticed my car was parked in their lot in the exact same place I left it on Monday morning. I talk to the owner’s son Kurt who was working at the time. He told me they were waiting on parts and would have them in that afternoon and would start first thing Thursday morning and could possibly have the car done Friday evening or Saturday afternoon at the latest. I received no phone call from them telling me that they were even waiting on parts. I assumed since they were a Pedder’s dealer they should have had the parts especially since I made an appointment almost a week in advance. So I left the torque converter with them and waited.

On Friday June 6th I call them up in the afternoon wanting to know the current status of my car. Once again they tell me they are still waiting on parts and would have them Monday morning and that they would start on the car right away. At this point I got pretty angry. This is when I first contacted Pedders about this matter. I PMed Paul (Hemi4me) with all the details. He apologized for my inconvenience and he even agreed with me that it was totally unacceptable that they had my car with no parts and he told me he called the shop and forwarded my complaint to the shop owner. In a later PM he even told me that MCP mention nothing about having to wait on parts.

On Monday June 9th I received my first phone call from MCP. I was told they finally got the parts and would start working on my car right away.

Tuesday evening I call them up, not expecting my car to be done but just wanting to know how it was going. They said things were going great and the car would be done Wednesday afternoon. Great, I’m finally going to be getting my car back, WRONG!

June 11th, Wednesday afternoon I call them up to see if my car is done yet. They said they were still working on it and would be done by the end of the day and I could pick up the car on Thursday morning.

Thursday June 12th at 12:00 in the afternoon I get a phone call from MCP. They tell me my car still isn’t done and would be done no later than 3:00 PM. 3:00 PM rolls around and I heard nothing from them. I call their shop, no one answer. I tried a few more times with no luck. I then decided to take a ride up there. I get there and no one is even there. Now I was fuming. I went back home and PMed Paul and let him know what was going on. Later that day at 5:30 I call MCP and someone finally answers. I asked the guy if my car was done and he said he wasn’t sure and he would call me right back. A half hour goes by and no call. I then called him back. He tells me that the suspension is done and they will finish the torque converter by the end of the day. I asked him if they ran into any problems and why it took so long. He told me they didn’t run into any problems and with a smart a$$ tone to his voice told me “We just go the parts on Monday”. After this little talk I was wondering why they didn't have the converter done yet. They had the car for a week waiting on suspension parts, they couldn't have done the converter sometime that week? This lead me to believe that they were lying about not having the parts. They just didn't have time for me.

Finally it is Friday. MCP at this point has had my car for 11 days and I should finally be getting it back. I was really hoping that they would get my car done because I would be making a trip to Columbus that weekend. I call them up in the afternoon and they tell me they are still working on the torque converter and tranny cooler and it would be done by 5:00 PM. 5:00 PM rolls around and I call them and OMG it is actually done. I hurry up there. I write them a check for the job and prepare to leave. Before I left they told me that when they took the car for a test drive they could hear the exhaust clanking up against the car when they went over bumps because they couldn’t get the exhaust lined back up properly.

I drive the car home. The whole way home I hear the clank that they were telling me about. I would have made them fix the exhaust but I didn't have another 11 days for them to fix it so I decided to do it my self. I pull my car up on ramps when I got home. The first thing I noticed was all the clamps on the exhaust were loose. I re-aligned the exhaust and tightened everything down. I go to take the car for a test drive. I get about half way down my street and start hearing the clanking sound again coming from the rear of the car. I turn around and get my car back on ramps for further inspection. While checking the exhaust again I notice this,

A bolt without a nut on it. And Pedders is always saying how dangerous the OEM bushings are on these cars. Now this is dangerous. First I tried to call MCP but they were already gone. I then called Paul at Pedders. He told me he was sorry for all the trouble and told me I'd be better off talking to Pete. I let him know I'd PM Pete and try to talk to him in person if I was able to make the trip to Columbus. I then had to drive up to the hardware store to buy a washer and a nut. I get home and put the new nut on. While I was under the car I decided to check all the other bolts because I was preparing for a long trip to Columbus and I want to make sure my car was safe before I drove it that far. To my surprise, I ended up finding 2 more loose bolts that I had to tighten down. Words couldn't even describe how angry I was at this point.

In the end, I was able to make my trip to Columbus. When I first saw Pete, I went over to him and told him about what happened. He apologized a few times but would always change the subject and start telling me about how great the guys are over at MCP. IMO he didn't seem to think my issue was a big deal at all. Even after Columbus we went back and forth on some PMs and I still got the sense from him that he didn't really care.

While in Columbus I asked Pete if he'd inspect my car to make sure I wasn't having any other issues. He had his guys get under my car and check everything out. They found yet another loose bolt and even worse they notice I'm leaking tranny fluid. We traced the source of the leak and it was coming from the tranny cooler. They didn't tighten the clamps on the hoses that go into the tranny cooler. We tighten the clamps up as much as we could. The next day Eric (hemi31) was nice enough to check my tranny fluid for me. He said I was probably at least a quart low. So I ended up having to add another quart. Later when I got home I actually found out that I was still a 1.5 quarts low.

I thought all my troubles were finally fixed, wrong again. About 2 weeks ago I started hearing another clanking sound, this time from the front. I couldn't figure out what it was so I decided to let MCP take a look at it. I call them up on a Wednesday afternoon and tell about my issues. Once again they still didn't seem that concerned and acted like this is all normal. I told them I need them to look at my car ASAP. I told them I'd be available on Friday or Saturday. They told me I could drop my car off early Friday morning and they'd have it fixed by Saturday. I'm like wait just a minute, you don't even know what is wrong with my car and you are already telling me you'll need it for 2 days? This to me sounded like they don't care about me and they just want me to drop it off so they can work on it when it is convenient for them. I told them how about I bring the car in and look at it with you and if it is an easy fix we'll fix it right away. If it is something worse, I'll leave the car with them. They agreed to this. I brought the car up there first thing Friday morning. We get it up on the left and they re-tighten every bolt on the car. We saw the front sway bar move a little when we tightened up one of the bolts, so we suspect that was the culprit. Now the car is acting fine...... for now. Lets hope it stays that way.

In conclusion to my big review I must say that even to this day I am still extremely angry with both Pedder's and MCP. Because of them, I feel I risked my life driving my car with faulty suspension and because of them I almost destroyed my tranny and my car. They cost me a ton of time, money and head aches. They can try and sugar coat this all they want but what I have said actually happened to me and is 100% true. Although I mostly blame MCP for all of this, I think Pedders deserves a little credit too because their lack of efforts to resolve my issues and the fact that they brag so much about their highly trained Pedder's dealers. It's not even like I'm the first LX they have worked on, they've done about 3 or 4 LXs and at least 1 Track 2 before mine. Till this day, I still have yet to get an apology from MCP, they seem to care less about my issues than Pedders does. Pedders and MCP both make out like this isn't a big deal well IMO this is a huge deal. I don't care how complex the Pedders system is, when I am paying someone $5k+ for a job I want it done right. MCP knew there was clanking coming from the car when they gave it back to me because they told me about it. This is totally unacceptable.
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Bl00dy h3ll - what a nightmare. Although Pedders don't appear to have been directly responsible (one of their components didn't implode) they most certainly should have taken your complaint more seriously. Now - it may be that they have and there has been confusion. Mebbe you were so uptight, that it made everything seem worse. I don't know. However, you had an agreement for the shop to do the work - not Pedders as such (I may have read this wrong) - so the main problem is the totally shocking workmanship and customer service of this MCP place, with an aggrovating factor of Pedders disinterest in the problem.

Yes - nuts missing off of bolts on the suspension is extremely dangerous. I suspect that most, having their new set-up would have started throwing the car around straight away........ I don't think there is any way that anybody could mitigate the risk, to you and your car, that was there due to the job not being completed (forget about not being done properly - the job was not completed at all). Loose bolts/nuts, although not nearly as dangerous as missing components, will also lead to noise, frustration (clearly!) increased component wear and potential damage. Performance gains would also be midly affected.

If this account of the story is accurate and nobody is able to give viable reasons for the whole affair (although there is no excuse for missing securing parts!) then Pedders should seriously consider binning MCP as an outlet (or whatever). This kind of shoddy behaviour should not be tolerated. Guess you'd have to wait and see if Pedders reply to this complaint now and maybe take it a little more seriously than they have so far (in your mind). Certainly, if I were Pedders, I would be absolutely pi$$ed and MCP for creating this situation.....

Good luck sorting it out.....
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What in THEE BLUE HELL? :jawdrop:

p.s.,,,,,, you honestly sure this isnt a rib? you're not being a sneaky one, right?
I hope not or I'll have been caught hook, line and......

Also - this isn't particularly funny and would suck as an advertising ploy IMHO....
I'm telling the 100% truth, this actually happened to me. Even though Pedders was very expensive I decided to go with them because they are supposed to be a premium product with good service. How many people do they actually get to order the Full Track 2? With as expensive as it is, it isn't exactly their money maker. Because of that I expected to be treated like V.I.P. when I took my car in. Instead I was treated like crap and they caused me a lot of problems.
Well - you've convinced me that there has been a geniune problem.

I just hope that they (whoever it ends up being) sort this out properly.

I have been down the route of getting something seemingly exclusive and ended up feeling 'under-appreciated'...... SUX!
Metgo, Again as I've said, I'm sorry for your experience with MCP, while i do not know them personally, i haven't heard any bad things about them over the past year.

Best I can do is apologize and assure you that your issues are important to us, and your experience is not the normal Pedders Experience. We do make mistakes as we're not perfect, but we (Pedders Dealers as a whole) go out of our way to make sure that every customer is taken care of in a respectable, and prompt manner.

Again, I'm sorry, and I'm happy that in the end you have a Pedderized car that you can be proud of and enjoy, regardless of troubles that you have already been through.

As I stated in the PM's we had, you can contact me any time if you have questions about anything.
Guess this is 'Strike One' then....?
As was mentioned on another forum, what other possible side of the story is there Pete? That metgo put down $5k and days of down time, so he could unscrew some bolts, just to f**k with you? I think you overestimate your importance. I too had planned on making the several hour trek to St. Charles, MO for a several thousand dollar Touring Suspension once my Sidewinder was tuned. That's toast now.
Whoah - that caught my eye. What the heck has been said about unscrewing bolts....?
Sorry, should have said nuts.

Hey, no - that's OK - I knew what you meant. I wondered where the 'he undid stuff' (or whatever) came from. Has there been an accusation that metgo loosened/undid nuts/bolts just to cause problems?!?!?!?
I think it was brought up rhetorically.
Oh - OK - my bad. Sounded like accusations might have been made elsewhere.:bigthumb:
His life was never in danger. A lower rear shock but was left off or not tightened properly. The lower rear shock bolt is under load even when the car in on a lift with the wheels at full droop.

Note to DCX: You are wasting money on nuts for your lower damper bolts because the bolts clearly stay in all by themselves........

In a worst case scenario the bolt falls out and the shock is trapped in the lower control arm pocket. It makes noise and does little else. That is the fact of the matter.

Note to DCX: You are wasting money on nuts for your lower damper bolts because should the worst happen and they fall it - it only makes a noise.....
Just what would have been your stance 'had' this bolt popped out whilst metgo was accelerating down an on-ramp (using the full potential of the system - of course) and the suspension had suddenly dropped, or popped out (dependent on the dynamics). Think it would still have been fine? What about if he'd gone to a track day?

You/your outlet/workshop were lucky - plain and simple. You got away with a potentially far worse situation purely because somebody checked the work that had been done so poorly. The fact you are defending this workshop beggars belief.......

Whatever your excuses and mitigation leaving a nut off of a suspension system is dumb azz - plain and simple. That nut was there for a VERY GOOD REASON! If it were not necessary, don't you think that DCX would have omitted it?

Yesterday, I hoped upon hope that a Pedders rep wouldn't come onto the forum and start trying to claim that missing securing parts on a suspension system aren't that bigger deal if they are missing from certain places... Oh well - that's that down the drain.....

No true engineer would ever see something like that as trivial - or try and excuse it away as being 'not so bad'. It was a major c0ck-up and any intelligent person will know that......

And if I'd paid 5 grand for this poor standard of service, I'd certainly be expecting to be getting some of that back......
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First off let address the issue of my life being in danger. I said in my opinion, I felt that my life was put in danger. Pedders actually has a huge thread about "Dangerous OEM bushings", pedders thinks OEM bushing are dangerous but not a bolt with out a nut on it? Are you trying to say that not having a bolt on a nut is normal and isn't a big deal?

That is actually a very good point - and one I missed. For a company that throws 'safety' down your neck and trashes DCX for subframe bushes, a claim that a missing nut is 'no big deal' does kind of make me doubt aything that they say.....

Obviously the guys that check my car in Columbus didn't do a very good job if I had to take my car in again to get checked again. And if you think just because they did check my car that it makes us even, you are wrong. Pedders screwed my car up, so they needed to fix it. As for the Dynos, after I realized that my car had leaked tranny fluid I told you I didn't want to dyno it. You kept insisting that I get it on the dyno. It was your choice to dyno the car, not mine. I even offered to pay you and you turned me down.

So - we have a customer that does not find the free check as satisfactory compensation for their time and the problems encountered? Fair enough.

Please, any of you that might be considering Pedders, please PM me first. There was a lot more details to this whole matter that I chose to leave out due to forum rules. But trust me when I say this, it gets worse.

Also, you might want to keep an eye on this thread.
One other thing Pete forgot to mention was that I was nice enough to put my car on display at the Pedder's booth in Columbus. I had my car over there almost all day and actually stood over there and talked to a lot of people about how much I liked my Pedders and not mentioning anything about my issues with them. Did he ever once thank me for this? No. He almost acts like I owe him because his guys took 10 minutes out of their day to check the nuts on a car that their dealer screwed up that is covered under their warranty. How I see it, I actually did him a favor by letting him use my car for people to see and me actually recommending Pedders to people there.

To all those people at LX and Beyond that I recommend Pedders to, I am truly sorry that I recommend them.
Dude - I now believe you are telling a much 'more honest' side to this story now, as I have just read this comment on the LX thread...:

"Even bad pub is good for business. Direct inquiries and sales placed through our website have gone up today. I do watch the webstats constantly. Web hits are essentially dollars in the bank. Email from the website and orders are pretty obvious in the office. Not hiding probably helps but the sad fact of the internet is that any pub is good pub."

This guy is so far up his own hoop, the sun definitely don't shine (IMHO)!!!

Having just read your comment in this post above, that it almost seemed as if 'he was doing you a favour' by showing your car, added to the fact that one of his first responses to this problem (publically) was...:

"In my years of business I have found that there are three truths: the customer's truth, the busness owner's truth and the truth that lies some where in the middle. No additional commentary is required nor would it would serve no purpose."

I can honestly say that people should stay away from this particularly poorly informed person. For a start, and as far as I am aware, the 'three thruths' [email protected] was not anything to do with business per se, but is a general comment on just about any situation. It has just been regurgitated here as a dig at you - saying (basically) that you are not telling the whole truth. Following that argument, it therefore insinuates that Pedders is also full of [email protected]!

Now - having read the responses from Pedders (or its reps) I can safely say that I think the greater amount of [email protected] is spewing from Pedders (especially the claim that a missing nut in that area was really no big deal....!). Are people sure they can trust a system designed (I am assuming - I asked if it were designed in-house, or whether the parts were outsourced and never got a reply) by a person who thinks that missing and/or loose suspension components are 'no big deal' long as they are in certain areas of non-importance...?

I think that the comment regarding bad publicity being good for business shows the contempt of the man for you and the situation. I am sorry that you have had to go through this, but I really hope others take a long hard look at what has happened here before they take the plunge. If it were me and I had read this attrocious display of poor customer relations, pig headedness, arrogance, poor workmanship and denial, I would most certainly be taking my hard earned cash elsewhere. At least Pete is pleased that your misfortune is ringing his cash register.... Totally disgusting - I'm half thinking that CF should chuck this company off of the sponsorship for the site and tell them to come back when they actually give a carp about their product/customers.......

At the end of the day, the shop was certified by Pedder. Pedder items were installed. The install was a complete and utter disaster, with only good fortune preventing what 'could' have been a particularly nasty incident. Dude - you were lucky - somebody is watching over you. This could have ended in a real tragedy (although therre are some that will believe that there was not a problem....).

I have never seen such a brazen, arrogant stance by a vendor......

Oh - and for the record - when the suspension travels through compression and extension, the force on the bolt in the lower part of the damper bush fluctuates - it is not a constant force. There will be times when the bolt is in shear from the top (the suspension compressing due to a dynamic input - with the damper trying to slow the compression rate) and in shear from below (when the spring quickly changes the direction of motion of the wheel/suspension against the damping effect of the damper). This means there will be periods of dynamic operation where the shear forces on the bolt (or the pressure that was holding it in) will be zero, as the shear forces change from above, to below, or vice versa...... So unless the bolt was an interference fit (which I don't believe it is), the bolt very well could have worked loose..... Hence DCX having a nut on the end of it! For experts in suspension and I assume suspension theory, their lack of basic comprehension on the dynamics of the system is a little scary....
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Thanks for the support arfur and to everyone else who has been supportive through all of this. I think most people on all the forums I've posted this on are on the same page as afur here and for some strange reason Pedders thinks it isn't a bad thing.
What surprised me is the lashback on the LX forums. They are normally (for all the right reasons) the first to try and defend a vendor. However, I think Pete has made any kind of defense very difficult. Rob's trying, but to be honest, Pete has yanked the mat from under his feet.

And Rob really should understand that there is a VERY REAL chance that bolt could have fallen out. Not a slim one. In fact, dependent on use of the vehicle (for the time period) it jolly well would have fallen out.

Nuts aren't just for Christmas, you know!

And I'm showing support because you had a bad time and you seem to have been pretty cool about it - up to a point. I think you did the right thing by waiting and I honestly think that you did only post this because of the brush-off you were getting from Pedders.

If it had been me, I'd have probably got Pedders to take the whole lot off, put the old stuff back on and then asked for a full refund. Not that I'd have been in that position in the first place, for my own reasons....

Anyway - good luck and as for the lifetime replacement offer - make sure you fully understand what needs to be wrong with the system for this warranty to be in effect. Does a shock have to leak? Does a spring have to break? Does a bush have to wear? Does the car have to bounce too much?

It's all very easy to be offered things like this, only to find that it takes moving a mountain to get anything replaced under that agreement. I suspect that it will be for material failure only (broken spring/damper etc) - I haven't seen the details - but would hope that it covers any failure (even perceived performance).
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First - there are 3 sides to every story. Only one of them is what REALLY happened, the other 2 are biased points of view. I do however find it funny how many jump on a band wagon without facts or research.

OK - we've been down the 'knowledgeable sayings' route. As for jumping on the bandwagon without facts or research - all the facts and the reserach are in this thread and the one on LXF. A nut was clearly left off of a bolt (very naughty and VERY unprofessional....). Pedders Pete has shot his mouth off in at least two posts that clearly show him as arrogant and confused as to what is actually dangerous and what is not, as well as cast doubts on his customer facing skills.........

Mike has left out a WHOLE lot out of facts out of this story. But I guess when you are trying to get some of your money back, you do that. With that said, if you can NOT afford to do a MOD – please don’t do it. If you have to borrow money for a MOD – is it really worth it unless you are a professional racer? How you spend your money is totally up to you, I’m not judging, but damn at least be able to afford it.

That's as maybe - but as I said - there is a picture of a nut missing off of the suspension and two posts clearly showing Pete's attitude to the incident. What else is now needed? Not sure where the 'if you need money back' stuff has come from. He should be given most, if not all the installation cost back as this appears to have been carried out my a troop of chimps. Hey - that's what is looks like from the piccy. Why, after seeing that complete catastrophy waiting to happen, would I then not believe that there were other components that were not secured properly? What has borrowing money for a mod got to do with this? I have said before that these kits are really only of use to those who race - but I got a slap for that. Now you're saying it!

As we all know, the world is not a perfect place. I know that -IF- MCP makes a mistake they stand behind their work. This is not a new company. This is not a company that does not know what they are doing. This is a company that has built RACE CARS – fabricated race cars – for other people and themselves and raced them for over 30 years while using the BEST of the BEST products.

"If MCP make a mistake they stand behind their work..." What - they stand behind the fact that they make mistakes - I'm sure that's not what you meant - but it reads that way! There is nothing stopping an 'old company' from completely c0cking-up - what's your point? In fact, it is probably more likely that a company that has been around a bit will be more likely to be complacent... Wow - NASA has been around for years and has built Space Shuttles, but things still go pear shaped - what's your point? Oh - and NASA would have had BEST of the BEST of the BEST of the BEST products - so there! :werd:

They have built for the best in the industry. StL IS a racing town…. Some of the BEST racers have come out of St. Louis… Wallace, Schroeder, Trickle...

Sounds like a quotefest from Top Gun in here.......:info-smilie:

MCP is a Pedders certified dealer, DiabloSport Certified Tuner, Kooks, Corsa, ProCharger, Brakeman, on and on and on have their own Dyno. They only install the BEST of the BEST - HIGH END top of the line products. They have a LARGE professional shop. Dodge Dealers in St. Louis refer their performance customers to MCP. This is not a shop that said OHHH I think I'll sell Pedders today. MCP also RUNS everything they carry -- first. They test it on their own cars. Then this was a 2 year process to become a certified authorized dealer!

Really! Then I guess a whole lot of vendors need to be contacting them and making sure that they are still on the ball with their mods! Yes we know - BEST of the BEST yadda, yadda, yadda.... I can still make a fantastically spectacular c0ck-up with the biggest of workshops - I don't get you point. Yeah - and Dodge dealers are all totally reliable as well - they are the BEST of the BEST of auto dealers, aren't they?

Time frame:
May 24th - Pedders Day in StL – Mike was advised at this time his car was NOT safe to drive. He drove it anyway. His comment was “I’ll have to check on the forum first”.

How was it unsafe? What was the problem?

June 9th – install started - Everything under the car required penetrate to loosen the bolts as a result of poor maintenance and abuse, the normal install took much longer than estimated.

B0ll0cks - what a complete crock of chit. Nearly all suspension/underbody nuts and bolts become seized to one degree or another very quickly. Have you seen the environment that they have to work in!!! Can you please (with the aid of pictures if necessary) inform me of exactly WHAT metgo did that was of poor maintenance (or lack of maintenance) which caused you to have to use penetrating oil? And what abuse was it that required the use of penetrating oil????

If you look at YOUR pic – that you just happen to have a camera to take a pic of a missing nut - there is rust and road wear on the end, but you can see where there WAS a nut. Am I saying you took it off --- HELL NO!!! I am saying there WAS a nut there. Did it work itself off? Maybe. But it WAS there. Maybe you should have taken it BACK after 50 miles as instructed.

Whether it was missing when he took the car, or fell off due to not being tightened properly is neither here, nor there. I would say that not even bothering to put it on would be a tad worse on the 'chimp' scale, but the end result was the same - an unsecured bolt on the bottom of the damper. And - if that was the original bolt, that was re-used for the install, there WOULD be a witness mark where the nut had previously been fitted.......:notallthere::notallthere::notallthere: Jeezzzz.

As a note: The bolts that are included in the photos are lower shock bolts. Although these bolts have nuts on them, they pose no safety hazard since the strut and shock have tension and compression holding the unit tight.

Yep - another person who doesn't know what he's talking about WRT the dynamics of the suspension system....:SM030:.

There WAS a real danger to metgo at Pedders Day and he chose to ignore it until he could "talk to the people on the forum". His words to ME.

Ignore what? What had he been told?

MCP has a quality control program to eliminate these issues. A mechanic does the work. Another mechanic checks the work. They send the car to the contract alignment shop for alignment. Then test drive the car and place the car back on the lift to check all work.

Well - obviously their QA control programme isn't worth the toilet paper it's written on! In fact, if this is the case, then not only did one person not put the nut on, the person who was supposed to check the 'quality' missed it! Seriously - you are not helping MCP's cause by showing what a great QA process they have (in this case)....

You didn’t put yourself at risk with this… but you did before and were ok with it. NOW you are suddenly concerned with safety??? You have made some poor choices when it comes to the maintenance on your car. In your words, “Only my 0-60 time matters”. That has been your focus, not a safe or maintained car.

Oh dear God - too depressing to even comment on.....

Do any of you REALLY think I would take my car to somewhere that is not THE BEST? That I would put their NAME on my signature or on my car??? Come on now.

I don't even know what this means....^^^^^^

I’m sorry Mike is not happy. I hate to say it, but I believe he has other motives. Those have become apparent. I’m also not going to get into a pissing contest. But praising MCP in person and at the track while playing with the big boys then doing this……… what the hell? This is a real racing team – one of their cars runs 8’s – for FUN.

OK - they have not become apparent to me - care to elaborate? Was he praising them before he found the issues, or after?


He is a she :)

afur - I dont even know how to respond to you, again, I am not used to dealing with teenagers on a forum. So I won't.
Yeah - I'd fall back on that argument if I had no answer as well!

Your arguments are flawed. You seemed to come out both guns blazing, basically implying that metgo was the cause of all the problems. You are SO biased one way that it made your 'argument' (such as it was) more of a protective rant.

Now - try and ignore the fact that I am just a teenager (which many forums have thousands of....) and pick through my reply and be so kind as to answer the questions that I put to you.

Failure to do this just shows that you had a little bout of chest-beating and actually have little of substance to substanciate your claims.

The most important question is what was so dangerous on metgo's car and what was he advised?

The other question - seeing as you appear to be slightly mechaniclly minded - was were the old suspension mounting bolts used on the install - and if they were, is it not possible for the witness marks on the bolt, showing that there had been a nut once upon a time, to have come from the original install and not the new install?

I await in anticipation.
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The danger she is talking about is a bushing, that they are talking about in the thread listed below. She obviously hasn't read that either. Basically Pedders lies to everyone about their bushings being bad and tell them they need to buy the pedders ones to fix it. This is what she is referring to when she says I drove my car when there was something wrong with it. She just shows her ignorance about cars and the forums.

OMG - I wish I'd seen this video before all this hoo-haa! And firstly - let me reassure LX owners that this is a crock of [email protected]!!! I can't believe they are peddling something by accusing the OEM gear of being dangerous!!!

Right - for a start - if you look at the way they are 'testing' the OEM bushing, you will see that they are using some kind of extension bar (socket extension?) through the centre of the bush. Now look closely at how far the hand is down the length of this bar!?! As you can see - the force being applied to the bar is at quite a distance from the point at which it enters the centre of the bush/sleeve!!! Anybody see the scam being pulled here?

The person doing the 'testing' is applying a HUGE levering force against the bush. This is NOT the same force that will be applied to the bushes during service!! If anybody can supply me a service picture that shows the bushes working on a bar with that amount of leverage, I'll eat my hat!!! That's the first con of this little story.....

Let me assure you that even with one of their replacement bushes, there will probably be a length of bar that I could eventually use that would move their bush centre around an alarming amount (although I suspect their fix is just to fill the entire void with plastic.....).

Second - the bush does not work in isolation. IIRC, the bushes are in a group of at least two - if not four. Therefore, any loading on the subframe bushes will be devided between all the bushes - not just one! And - I can tell you that once the forces have been devided, you would NEVER see the amount of deformation of that bush as 'advertised' in that clip!!!! Wot a swizz......

Third - if you look at the design of the rubber in the bush - it was never MEANT to be a solid design. It has been manufactured TO allow play between the chassis and the subframe!!! This is in an effort to reduce the noise/vibration from the road/transmission from reaching the passenger compartment!!! It is also to reduce the 'shock-loading' of the torque/power of the drivetrain against the chassis when being used hard!!! All that replacing these bushing will achieve is an overly-stiff attachment of the sub-frame to the chassis, which will increase noise/vibration transfer to the vehicle driver/passengers and increase the fatigue at the chassis mounting points. This increase of fatigue CAN result in the early outbreak of corrosion!!!

You guys have been warned. Yes - there may have been splitting on some bushes - this is a risk with this design and will happen eventually due to ultra-violet light and oxygen attacking the rubber - but not in a year or two (unless the vehicle has been used pretty much exclusively for racing and itself has been over-fatigued!).

I wonder how many of these 'splits' occurred after the 'tester' had 'over-excersized' a part-worn bush (ok abused it...) in front of a customer!!!

LX people - you are being hood-winked into believing that this design is flawed. I can catagorically tell you now, that their 'test' takes the bush outside of it's natural environment. They are seemingly over-stressing the component in order that they SCARE people into changing them out with their 'improved' product. This test PROOVES NOTHING, other than with enough leverage and force, you can get the inner sleeve to touch the outer sleeve - which is a no brainer, as with enough leverage, ANY bush can be squashed to chit!

Waste your money if you want - but this is not a dangerous design flaw and if I were DCX, I'd be getting my lawyers to look closely at these claims.....

Metgo - your vehicle was NOT dangerous by any stretch of the imagination. You were being fleeced. I am so glad that you didn't listen to them. Your dealer (in this instance) was completely correct.

Pedders appears to be spreading half-truths and what some may consider to be lies, whilst performing 'tests' on components well outside their operating envelope just to drum up business. I dare them to put a bar through the centre of that bush, put the hand right at the top of the bar, just below the subframe and try again to get the inner sleeve to 'touch' the outer sleeve just by applying side-ways forces (no levering at a distance, which can be seen in that clip) as would be the case with the bush on the car. Unless the bush has literally fallen to bits, they will not be able to touch the inner sleeve to the outer - I would bet they wouldn't even manage past half-way! And even if they managed half way, they would then have to devide this effect between ALL the mounting points on the vehicle.

She would start to say a little truth then throw in a ton of crap that she either hear from MCP or made up. She thinks she knows my life story and my financial situation and I am just out to make a buck, well she is wrong. I make probably more than twice as much money as the average person my age, I have a credit score of over 700 and I almost have my Charger paid off after only 2 years of having it. I was baffled when I read her post. She was one of the few people I told any of this to up until now and she supported me all the way. She told me to be careful of the pedders guys and don't let them take advantage of me. When I first told her they were taking forever on my car she tells me I should file a compliant against pedders and I should get some sort of discount for all of this.

MMmmmm - don't worry. Her thoughts and opinions were so poorly put down in the post, I doubt that many 1) would have bothered to read all that [email protected] and 2) wouldn't have understood it all anyway. So fear not. You don't have to justify this all to me though. Through all of the info here and some info from other threads, I know who the wrong-doers are, as I imagine most others will have worked out. Sounds like she was buttering you up for a fall buddy. Just ignore her - she has little to say and says it far too loud. Stay well away from her and don't get into ANY further discussions with her (IMHO).

But lets just put it this way, whether she will admit it or not some how her buddies at MCP changed her mind from the time I last talked to her. I wouldn't trust anything she says in regards to any of this because she is pretty much just speaking on behalf of MCP. And that is what really ticks me. She is mis-representing her self. She acts like she is a personal friend by calling me by name then starts rambling on without the facts and without even reading the threads. She is not a friend of mine, I've met her 1 time and exchanged maybe 5-10 PMs and most of those were about her Pedder's experience, not mine.

You are assuming she had any real want to help you anyway! You have to be careful of 'Greeks bearing gifts' sometimes. She sounds like a complete snake to me. Best rid of it. Man, this has snowballed.

Stay safe!
I was in the shop when they took off my rear cradle to put Pedder's in. This was done around 18000 miles on the odo, and I saw split bushes. I saw these split bushes before they were separated from the subframe and no one had a chance to modify them before I saw them; like I said I was there when the dropped it and was there during the initial inspection while it was still on the jack. And I have witnesses to that fact.

Fine - you will note that I actually did say it was possible. Not that it was impossible. 18,000 miles is a very low mileage for this kind of failure - how many years was this? If these had been in that state at 18,000 and within 3 years, this would have been a warranty claim. Was the car seen by a dealer (who would LOVE the business) prior to the Pedders touch? Also - what do the bushes look like new? Do they have slots designed into them, which have got ragged with flexing, or was the rubber actually perished? Was the splitting all the way through, or was it at the surface (more akin to cracking)?

I'll try to remember when I get home to go through the pictures. I don't know if I have any pictures that show the split before a lever was used, but I didn't need a lever to see the split first hand.

Would love to see where the splite were - thanks. And the use of that lever would most certainly have made any rip far worse - there is no way those bushes were supposed to be swung around like that. When the sub-frame is bolted to the chassis, does the bush get compressed between the fixing bolt/plate and the chassis underside? There is a reason I need to know this.

I also had bare metal at the subframe mounts on the body from (I presume, since I can't actually witness this) the subframe moving around while driving and rubbing off the paint. I can't say that Pedders fixed this (again, I can't actually witness it) but what they did to fix it makes sense to me.

The rubber flexing would have eroded any layer of paint between the sub-frame and the chassis. Bushes cerainly can wear away paint and this is not a defining clue as to bush failure. The sub-frame is designed to move in relation to the chassis as this is what absorb vibration/noise. I would not expect to see paint still present under the bushes, TBH. However, I would need to closely inspect the sub-frame in place to see what should be worn from where.

While your logic about the lever is completely valid, that does not necessarily mean you can imply they altered the bush or that split bushes do not happen with OEM equipment under any driving style.

I did not say that bushes never split. I pointed out that the video shows a situation that the bushes would never be exposed to. It has clearly been filmed to try and scare people just like you. Unless they can chuck a car on a lift and get the sub-frame to tilt over 30 degrees away from the chassis (which makes me giggle, thinking about it!) this is a totally fictitious event and not a true representation of the deformation of the bushes during use - or a true representation of what the subframe would be doing......

Yes - bushes can split. Depends on the use of the vehicle and the time that the vehicle has been on the road. Will small splits affect the system and make it dangerous - heck no! Is that was is being claimed - heck yes! And it is wrong.

As a point of note - if the bushes are actually crushed in between the chassis and the sub-frame when installed, small splits in the bushes (I'm assuming it was in the webbing area of he bush - between two substantial blocks of rubber?) won't make a huge amount of difference to performance IMHO. Now - if your centre sleeve had fallen away from the outer sleeve of the bush - I'd have been much more alarmed!

I'm not getting at you - you put yor trust in sales people. We all do. I just get sick of scaremongering whilst showing a 'test' that has no validity (in reality).
I'm not taking it personally. I actually did Pedders because I was able to get to a killer deal by being a shop's first car more so than seeking it out and getting sold on it. The information I had on Pedders was good (GTO forums, Pedder's web site) and the ideas intrigued me and made sense based on my knowledge. The theory of replacing the bushes etc was run through my trusted independent mechanic and had solid reasoning to both of us. In other words, opportunity knocked and I answered (with some research inbetween).

Now that its done, I'm sold on it. . . and recommend it.

Now that I've thought about it, my review at the time had ALL the pictures:

But the flickr link seems to have died (my pro account expired today apparently, and yahoo login is blocked at work so I can't fix it until I get home).
Cheers buddy - you had your reasons and they were the right ones for you - so no harm, no foul :).
You did, I didn't mean to pounce on you. My reading of your post certainly made it seem like you were trying to say it doesn't happen in a statistically relevant level of occurance. My car is an '06, on the road since July 3rd, 2006. No, the dealer did not see the problem. My dealer and I had a very bad relationship before they were closed, and unfortunately they were the best dealer within 30 miles so I haven't established a relationship with a new dealer. And I didn't know they were split, a credit to your point. The splits were jagged anyway, they looked like rips, but did not penetrate all the way through the bush.
No worries! :)

Right - thanks for the clarification and I think I know exactly what is going on here now. Bear with me.

The problem is - and the sales pitch relies upon..... the word SPLIT.

'Split' is defined as 'seperated' in the dictionary....

What you have just discribed is not a split - it is in fact a crack, or the start of the rubber perishing - which is a totally natural event for the rubber. It is gradually returning to it's lowest energy state (as does steel when it rusts). This happens to tyres as well.

There is a HUGE difference in the rubber being 'split', compared to it having 'cracks' - which is what you were shown.

If you were to phone me up and tell me that you had a split suspension bush, I would expect to see daylight from one side to the other - in other words, I would expect the rubber to have physically parted.

Rubber cracking is far less serious than rubber that has split......

I think that the term used by some for the apparent damage that has occurred to these bushes has been mis-described. Again - this is even less dangerous than a totally split bush (even if you wanted to class any of this, as dangerous)!!!

I totally agree that rubber can crack within 2-3 years. I would not expect to see it split for 5-10-15 years, dependent on use of the vehicle.

To replace the rubber bushes because they have some cracking is really overkill - even with new OEM bushes. It is also the reason that I doubt you would have got a warranty claim from a dealer for replacement of those bushes. In other words, they were still fit for purpose.

Again - not getting at you buddy - you've just had the problem 'described' to you in a certain way.......

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My Flickr account is back up. As promised here's the pics.

Here is a bush off of my car unmolested straight off the car:

And here it is again being molested:

There are more if you go through the link in my previous post.
Thanks buddy. TBH, the bush looks pretty good cosidering the horror stories. The cracking/split (whatever) is through the thin part of the rubber inbetween the rubber blocks - which I suspected it would be - so it's not even through the area which takes most of the abuse. As for the marks on the chassis - not particularly a good protective coating provided by DCX, however, there is nothing nasty about it and looks to be normal wear and tear due to normal operation of the bush with respect to the way it is mounted in the frame.

The bushes did not need to be swapped out due to condition. they seemed fine to me. The abuse sure made them look knackered - but they weren't.

OK - I've said my bit - others have said theirs. Lets hope the 'dangerousness' of the bushes being even slightly perished gets dropped - as it is not true.
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