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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
They said they could tune my twin turbos. They said they were meticulous and stood behind their work no matter what. So I made the 350mi. trip,twice, so much dor through! Over $3000 spend with them, lodging,car rental,etc. and this is what I got.I have asked them many times over these several months to help me out but they simply ignore my emails. They are even refusing to send me a copy of the tune that cost me so much. More on this at www.Qualityrockers.com/InjectedEngineering.htm The result below, an new engine, turbos and over $12k more.

UPDATE:
Injected Engineering and I have reached a mutual agreement!!
 

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SO....your saying they put 150 or so miles on your car?
Would you not have asked for a Tune when you came to pick up the vehicle?
Wow...3 months between invoices. BTW...you blacked out your name and address on one...but not the other.

M
 

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SO....your saying they put 150 or so miles on your car?
I think he is saying that the motor died after only 506 miles of driving after their tune was installed, of which 350 of those miles consisted of the drive back home, on cruise control.

-=FLEX=-
 

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Discussion Starter #4
SO....your saying they put 150 or so miles on your car?
Would you not have asked for a Tune when you came to pick up the vehicle?
Wow...3 months between invoices. BTW...you blacked out your name and address on one...but not the other.

M
350 of the 506 miles the engine lasted were hwy miles going home. Within 156 after that, the motor was gone. Would I not have asked for a tune? Yes, but for the $900 spent on the tune alone I would have prefered one that was done correctly, didn't destroy my engine and one I wasn't locked out from and denied a copy of,obviously to protect their incompetence.
 

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Get your attorney involved right away!
He could get a lawyer, but without some rock solid PROOF, that the engines pistons failed as a result of their Tune....you'll be spending good money after bad and you will never win the case.

You must have rock solid proof.


I know how miserable it must be to have this happen, as well as the expense involved to repair it. However, getting lawyers involved is risky business where proof of negligence is concerned.

Their attorney will immediately state...

1) How do we know that this failure was not initiated by a previous tune, to which the damage was already done.....it just happened to fail after you left our shop.

2) Were any of the parts damaged inspected prior to tuning or after tuning?

3) What are your driving habits? (the judge will chuckle here because it somewhat obvious that you are taking an engine and putting 2 turbo's...this might be interpreted to make you out to be the villian that races his car.)

Posting you experience with that shop on this forum is about the best thing that you can do to them besides telling others at car shows and everywhere you go. I'm sorry for the problems and even if the shop screwed it up, I don't think that was their intention.
 

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He could get a lawyer, but without some rock solid PROOF, that the engines pistons failed as a result of their Tune....you'll be spending good money after bad and you will never win the case.

You must have rock solid proof.


I know how miserable it must be to have this happen, as well as the expense involved to repair it. However, getting lawyers involved is risky business where proof of negligence is concerned.

Their attorney will immediately state...

1) How do we know that this failure was not initiated by a previous tune, to which the damage was already done.....it just happened to fail after you left our shop.

2) Were any of the parts damaged inspected prior to tuning or after tuning?

3) What are your driving habits? (the judge will chuckle here because it somewhat obvious that you are taking an engine and putting 2 turbo's...this might be interpreted to make you out to be the villian that races his car.)

Posting you experience with that shop on this forum is about the best thing that you can do to them besides telling others at car shows and everywhere you go. I'm sorry for the problems and even if the shop screwed it up, I don't think that was their intention.
The threat of legal action will frequently persuade a reluctant party to do what is right (or at least offer some accommodation). I am NOT a lawyer, don't play one on TV, and generally deplore the legal atmosphere in this country. But it is what it is...

Steve
 

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There are a couple of tuners that are trashing engines :(
 

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Twin turbos on a stock block. That was brave.

C.
 

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WOW - that is horrible! i hope it will work out in the end for you.
 

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I'm really sorry to hear that man, but I agree definitely inform everyone on that tuner and tell people you meet, etc.
 

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Interested in some details how high were your egts before it blew? how much boost were you running? what type of tuning were you using? were you running methanol or just a cooler?
 

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probably should be in vendor reviews even though they arent a vendor here.

Thats what happens in the aftermarket world. people sell products all day long but never back up what they blow up
 

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saved me 450. i was suppose to go get tuned by them in 2 weeks. Guess i'll cancel that appointment.
 

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there were 4 pistons like this trashed heads and turbos


The tune was not your problem.


Your ring end gaps were not correct for the amount of boost (increased cylinder pressure). This caused the rings to sieze in the piston ring land & break the top of the piston. I've seen this many times when someone builds a motor & swears they'll never use nitrous (increased cylinder pressure) & then they do. I've seen it with cheap pistons & good ones.
 

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The tune was not your problem.


Your ring end gaps were not correct for the amount of boost (increased cylinder pressure). This caused the rings to sieze in the piston ring land & break the top of the piston. I've seen this many times when someone builds a motor & swears they'll never use nitrous (increased cylinder pressure) & then they do. I've seen it with cheap pistons & good ones.
Yes and no regardless of tune you have mechanical limitations of an engine. I don't know how much boost they were running so we don't know if they were expecting to much from a stock engine But, an improper tune can cause the same damage. The best description I have read has come from tune it 2 pdf from mr mopar. So if this damaged occurred at reasonable boost levels lets say <8psi I would blame the tune especially if running a diablo tune. I personally ran one for over 8000 miles and was not happy with it. The factory lx pcms don't work well with boost. I personally drove several forced induction set ups from different vendors and different tuners they all seem to have the same fuel control problems. That is why I am trying a different engine management route & hope it prevents this problem .

"Top Ring End Gap is often a major player when it comes to piston problems. Most
top land damage on race pistons appears to lift the land into the combustion
chamber. The reason is that the top ring ends butt and lock the piston at TDC. Crank
rotation pulls the piston down the cylinder while leaving at least part of the ring and
top land at TDC. Actual running end gap will vary depending on the engine heat
load. Piston alloy, fuel mixture, spark advance, compression, cooling system
capacity, duty cycle, and Hp per c.i. all combine to determine an engine's heat load.
Most new generation pistons incorporate the top compression ring high on the
piston. The high ring location cools the piston top more effectively, reduces detonation, smog, and increases Hp. If detonation or other excess heat situations
develop, a top ring end gap set toward the tight side will quickly butt, with piston and
cylinder damage to follow immediately"
 

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Yes and no regardless of tune you have mechanical limitations of an engine. I don't know how much boost they were running so we don't know if they were expecting to much from a stock engine But, an improper tune can cause the same damage. The best description I have read has come from tune it 2 pdf from mr mopar. So if this damaged occurred at reasonable boost levels lets say <8psi I would blame the tune especially if running a diablo tune. I personally ran one for over 8000 miles and was not happy with it. The factory lx pcms don't work well with boost. I personally drove several forced induction set ups from different vendors and different tuners they all seem to have the same fuel control problems. That is why I am trying a different engine management route & hope it prevents this problem .

Don't forget to bold these 2 from your statement
compression, and Hp per c.i.
IMHO for the tune to have caused the problem the engine would have to have been ran real lean. The coloring on the pistons does not indicate a lean condition.

Is is possible that the original tune was so far off that it caused the damage to begin & then it finally let go? Yes it is. Is it probable? No. Why do I say this? Because I would find it hard to believe that 4 pistons would have that kind of damage & survive for any length of time.

A very good, performance oriented, machine shop can dis-assemble his old motor & come up with a fairly accurate cause of failure. This will be the only way to be more sure.
 

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Don't forget to bold these 2 from your statement


IMHO for the tune to have caused the problem the engine would have to have been ran real lean. The coloring on the pistons does not indicate a lean condition.

Is is possible that the original tune was so far off that it caused the damage to begin & then it finally let go? Yes it is. Is it probable? No. Why do I say this? Because I would find it hard to believe that 4 pistons would have that kind of damage & survive for any length of time.

A very good, performance oriented, machine shop can dis-assemble his old motor & come up with a fairly accurate cause of failure. This will be the only way to be more sure.
The ring gaps on Gen III's are an issue.....but so is tuning part throttle boost.It cannot be done.The PCM will hunt 14.7 A/F in closed loop no matter how much boost is behind it.Unfortunately boost on an LX is an all or nothing situation.I think the real issue here is the OP was told it would be tuned and be safe to drive and it wasn't.Also there was a boost controller installed....maybe they should have set it to come in later.
As far as the pistons surviving with the ringlands popped.....these motors are funny. Once the ringland pops it takes alot of stress off the ring. I have seen motors with popped lands go 20k miles before anyone bothered to pull a head and see if there was a problem. I just did one that probably had that or more on a broken piston and no one ever knew anything was wrong with it, till it broke another in a different cylinder and popped a misfire code when the broken land closed up the sparkplug.And because the ring is still intact even a compression and leakdown test will not show an issue.Matter of fact you can't even see the damage with a scope due to the location....only way to know for sure once the misfire code pops is to pull the head.
 

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The ring gaps on Gen III's are an issue.....but so is tuning part throttle boost.It cannot be done.The PCM will hunt 14.7 A/F in closed loop no matter how much boost is behind it.Unfortunately boost on an LX is an all or nothing situation.I think the real issue here is the OP was told it would be tuned and be safe to drive and it wasn't.Also there was a boost controller installed....maybe they should have set it to come in later.
As far as the pistons surviving with the ringlands popped.....these motors are funny. Once the ringland pops it takes alot of stress off the ring. I have seen motors with popped lands go 20k miles before anyone bothered to pull a head and see if there was a problem. I just did one that probably had that or more on a broken piston and no one ever knew anything was wrong with it, till it broke another in a different cylinder and popped a misfire code when the broken land closed up the sparkplug.And because the ring is still intact even a compression and leakdown test will not show an issue.Matter of fact you can't even see the damage with a scope due to the location....only way to know for sure once the misfire code pops is to pull the head.
Excuse my ignorance here but, if it's a common problem that the pistons break, then why add the turbo & then drive it to the shop for a tune? By your own admission there could have been a previous problem & yet the tuner is receiving all the blame.


This whole thread seems to be about bashing Injected Engineering without a lick of proof that they have done anything wrong.
 

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My car is stock and runs great...
Bank acct is looking alright too...
 
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