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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have had a 2009 Charger 5.7 for a couple of months now, what a fun car :)

Having stumbled across this forum I now have a headfull of questions about what simple mods I could be doing to make it even more fun :D

Hopefully somebody can point me to "The Idiots Guide To Basic Charger Mods" or something similar? My gut feel is that there are three basic mods I should be considering, a CAI, a 180 degree thermostat, and a Predator tune?

Questions I have include;

I think I understand the basic benefits of a CAI (more, cooler airflow). What I am less clear on is if that is the only thing I change, will I gain anything or does it require a tune to take advantage of it?

I have read posts indicating that a CAI will change the sound...the sound of what? The exhaust? The engine? Is it going to increase cabin noise or contribute toward that horrible drone I hear from "coffee can mufflers"?

Is there any benefit to using higher octane fuel without a tune?

What is the 180 degree thermostat actually going to do for me in real terms? I get that the engine will run cooler...why do I care from a performance perspective? I assume that a cooler running engine is going to last longer, but surely at some cost to the cooling system that is now running much more than it would be stock?

WTH is a Billet Catch Can, what does it do, why do I care?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Cheers

HappyWino
 

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I have had a 2009 Charger 5.7 for a couple of months now, what a fun car :)

Having stumbled across this forum I now have a headfull of questions about what simple mods I could be doing to make it even more fun :D

Hopefully somebody can point me to "The Idiots Guide To Basic Charger Mods" or something similar? My gut feel is that there are three basic mods I should be considering, a CAI, a 180 degree thermostat, and a Predator tune?

Questions I have include;

I think I understand the basic benefits of a CAI (more, cooler airflow). What I am less clear on is if that is the only thing I change, will I gain anything or does it require a tune to take advantage of it?

Do you have the R&T package, the CAI helps the engine breath better and it will help the sound out the pipes..and looks kool also..;)

I have read posts indicating that a CAI will change the sound...the sound of what? The exhaust? The engine? Is it going to increase cabin noise or contribute toward that horrible drone I hear from "coffee can mufflers"?

Is there any benefit to using higher octane fuel without a tune?

Not really, right now with the winter gas out, alot of people are running higher octane because the winter mix is junk...But normally, 89 is fine..
Get the predator...the best bang for the buck..and you will need this to set your fans when you go to a 180 stat..



What is the 180 degree thermostat actually going to do for me in real terms? I get that the engine will run cooler...why do I care from a performance perspective? I assume that a cooler running engine is going to last longer, but surely at some cost to the cooling system that is now running much more than it would be stock?

Helps with keeping the engine cooler, they heat soak every easy and the PCM will richen up the fuel/air with the kooler engine temp. which helps with performance..

t

WTH is a Billet Catch Can, what does it do, why do I care?

Our cars have a bad habit of getting oil in the Intake manifold from the PCV system, this helps keep it out of the manifold....

Others might chime in on some of this!!




Thanks for any help you can offer.

Cheers

HappyWino
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes, I have the R/T does that change anything?

How does the air intake change the exhaust note? Indirectly I assume by the PCM adjusting the fuel/air mixture and creating better detonation?

For those days I am driving conservatively rather actually having any fun, what is the impact on my MPG going to be with each of these mods? 180T and CAI seem to both improve the engine efficiency, will MPG increase as a result?
 

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OK Happywino....heres the deal. Your on the right track with your top 3 list, but you NEED a Catchcan asap! The CAI will make the engine noise go up in a good way and will help performance....motors need air! The predator and 180 go hand in hand....you dont need eithier unless your into performance. The catchcan catches all the oil thats thrown up into our intake systems causing your manifold and throttle body to build up excess oil...you dont want this to happen! I personally believe that every 5.7/6.1 need a catchcan even if its the only mod. Sum people have got worse gas milage with these mods including the predator, but sum have got better gas milage?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Just a reminder, I am not a gearhead :), why is this small (?) amount of oil coming back into the intake system a big deal? What is the long term impact?

Thanks

HW
 

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Just a reminder, I am not a gearhead :), why is this small (?) amount of oil coming back into the intake system a big deal? What is the long term impact?

Thanks

HW
Its an EPA thing. They make the car manufacturer do this to burn the excess oil off through the motor. The long term effect is a very dirty motor that wont idle or run properly and will cuase way more harm than good.
 

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I have had a 2009 Charger 5.7 for a couple of months now, what a fun car :)

Having stumbled across this forum I now have a headfull of questions about what simple mods I could be doing to make it even more fun :D

Hopefully somebody can point me to "The Idiots Guide To Basic Charger Mods" or something similar? My gut feel is that there are three basic mods I should be considering, a CAI, a 180 degree thermostat, and a Predator tune?
Welcome to the forum, from one geek to another. Your thread title caught my eye as I'm in the same boat. I'm a corporate rent-a-geek, doing IT for small & medium businesses in Southwestern Ontario. Been at it for 14 years. My area of comfort is ActiveDirectory and editing registry files, not intake manifolds and exhaust back-pressure. I drove two consecutive Taurus station wagons... and liked them. Ooooh... v6 power! I've never cared about cars except in a purely utilitarian fashion. Then I saw a few Charger SRT8s rolling around and knew... this shall be my next obsession.

Now I'm doing my own mods of increasing complexity, going to meet & greets, and I've even written a couple how-to sheets on here. Weird. So, hey... welcome to the club.

To answer your question, modding has two clear and distinct paths: appearance and performance. You've rattled off some of the typical "My First Pony^H^H^H^HModification" type things in the performance path. A third-party exhaust is probably the next in line though that gets expensive.

Appearance mods range from bolt-on stuff like Billet Tech make that can jazz up your engine bay through replacement light assemblies through in-car-entertainment through replacement body parts!

A good way to learn about the breadth of what's out there is to take a browse down the supporting vendor area. In the forum list that displays different topics, the bottom several dozen are supporting vendors. Take an hour or so and kind of drop in, take a look at the thread titles, and you'll get a feel for what's out there. Lots of pictures. That will give you a feel for what kind of mods you're interested in. Then ask about them in the appropriate area (Interior Mods, Exterior Mods, Performance Mods).

Questions I have include;

I think I understand the basic benefits of a CAI (more, cooler airflow). What I am less clear on is if that is the only thing I change, will I gain anything or does it require a tune to take advantage of it?
A CAI-only replacement will net anywhere from a slight power loss to a slight power gain. Part of the question involves horsepower versus torque, which is a topic in and of itself. There've been a few comparisons done on a dyno but there are also a lot of people who measure using their "butt dyno". Feeling five to seven horsepower... I dunno. I'm skeptical, but hey.

Anyway, in general you don't need a custom tune to benefit from a CAI. There PCM that controls the engine's tune is adaptive and has a certain amount of adjustment that it will make without an actual program alteration. That being said, the DiabloSport Predator you mentioned will have "canned" tunes for CAI-only modded cars.

I have read posts indicating that a CAI will change the sound...the sound of what? The exhaust? The engine? Is it going to increase cabin noise or contribute toward that horrible drone I hear from "coffee can mufflers"?
The sound change isn't the engine itself, or the exhaust note. When the RPMs get moderate to high - say 2500+ - the engine is breathing hard. The stock CAI has baffles and such that make this very quiet. 3rd-party CAI units don't, and are loud. There is a distinct and evident sucking noise. It's actually pleasant, not obnoxious. Inside the car, with windows rolled up you will barely hear it when you stomp on the gas, even knowing it's there. Windows down... you'll grin because it's a sound that evokes a sense of power. Your car is clearly doing something.

Also of note... you'll hear the word "drone" used often here. For you and I it means something specific. The 5.7L HEMI has MDS, wherein it shuts off four cylinders under appropriate conditions (a topic in itself). Because of this, exhaust tuning is kind of awkward. There are resonant frequencies associated with MDS mode that aren't present in full 8 cylinder mode. Many people cut out the resonators at the back and then replace the "suitcase" muffler. That causes drone in MDS mode. A replacement CAI won't impact this at all. CAI goes before the engine, exhaust after the engine. Different things. Oh, and incidentally, a Predator can be used to disable MDS if you happen to want. (I don't, but some do.)

Is there any benefit to using higher octane fuel without a tune?
No.

The only benefit in that case is to the petrochemical industry, who make a slightly higher profit margin by selling you a more expensive fuel. Higher octane fuels are (and I'm simplifying here) aren't "more powerful", but rather designed to compensate for attributes of a "more powerful" engine. It isn't a case of better vs worse. Lactose-free milk isn't "better" than normal milk, but under certain conditions it's called-for. Don't let the higher number fool you. Higher octane basically means "harder to ignite", preventing early ignition in certain engines.

What is the 180 degree thermostat actually going to do for me in real terms? I get that the engine will run cooler...why do I care from a performance perspective? I assume that a cooler running engine is going to last longer, but surely at some cost to the cooling system that is now running much more than it would be stock?
This got answered pretty well and I've got nothing productive to add.

WTH is a Billet Catch Can, what does it do, why do I care?
Again, answered well. To expand, this is mostly a case of principle. The SRT engineers themselves have repeatedly expressed that they do not believe that a catch-can is necessary. Having one is certainly not harmful, a viewpoint they have supported. That being said, as long as there's no hidden benefit to this re-burn, cleaner is - in principle - better than dirty. The engineers have agreed there's no harm in a catch-can, so there's no hidden benefit. I've got one.

I'd like to add that the oily gasses are deliberately re-burned. It isn't accidental or due to some flaw that they end up back in the engine.

Yes, I have the R/T does that change anything?
Welcome to yet another topic in itself moment. Let's pause to catch our breath.

Ready?

Okay. Trim-levels. SE, SE+, SXT, R/T, R/T R&T, Daytona, SRT8, Superbee.

Let's focus on the upper end. The Superbee is simply an SRT8 with a limited-edition number badge, a unique paint colour each year, and some vinyl decals. You likely know what an SRT8 is but in a nutshell it's got the 6.1L HEMI, a different front fascia, a different hood, a bunch of other performance changes such as suspension and some more cosmetic queues. Fine. Let's jump down to the R/T. The R/T has the 5.7L HEMI. Jumping back upwards, a Daytona is an R/T with a unique paint colour, limited edition numbered badge, some vinyl decals, and some other stuff. That other stuff varies year-to-year, but typically it includes different wheels, a better CAI, a better exhaust and a couple other cosmetic queues. The Daytona gets (again, summarizing) 10hp over the base R/T because of the CAI and exhaust change.

The R/T with the "Road & Track package" (29R package in 2008) is effectively everything a Daytona is only missing: paint, decals, badge.

So. The reason you were asked if you have Road & Track is because if you do, you already have a "better" CAI and an aftermarket one has less overall benefit. It will still absolutely sound and look awesome, but you're probably only looking at 1-2hp, if that.

Yours being a 2009, it's easy to tell. Is the R/T badge in your front grille and on your trunk red? If it is, you do. If it's silver, you don't.

How does the air intake change the exhaust note? Indirectly I assume by the PCM adjusting the fuel/air mixture and creating better detonation?
As above, not to contradict my forum-buddy zoomzoom1 but, well, I've never heard a lick of difference to the exhaust note. This is a perfect opportunity for everyone to leap on my head and crush me.

For those days I am driving conservatively rather actually having any fun, what is the impact on my MPG going to be with each of these mods? 180T and CAI seem to both improve the engine efficiency, will MPG increase as a result?
No significant difference. Your fuel-economy won't change in a measurable way. The statistical variance due to imprecise measurement will - by far - outweigh the change. Yes, you could measure this, but nobody does. Climate-controlled race tracks where we can precisely repeat driving conditions are kind of rare. I track my mileage religiously and a slight change in highway vs city vs brutal city driving has a huge impact on economy. A CAI is just noise as far as the statistics go.

Good luck, and go ahead and ask more. This is a friendly and helpful bunch here.
 

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Hey Auguish, No problem....The point I was making was alot of times, the more air in, the more air out..simplfied...Some of my friends have done the CAI route and it has alittle different change with the R/T package since the exhaust is alittle freeier...But I did CAI and exhaust at the same time...so this was taken from other cars....But you were right on the sound...It can differ from one car to the next...But to the OP, best bang for the buck.......Predator..CAI..180 stat...Done....Sound about right Ang?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Welcome to the forum, from one geek to another. Your thread title caught my eye as I'm in the same boat. I'm a corporate rent-a-geek, doing IT for small & medium businesses in Southwestern Ontario. Been at it for 14 years. My area of comfort is ActiveDirectory and editing registry files, not intake manifolds and exhaust back-pressure. I drove two consecutive Taurus station wagons... and liked them. Ooooh... v6 power! I've never cared about cars except in a purely utilitarian fashion. Then I saw a few Charger SRT8s rolling around and knew... this shall be my next obsession.

Now I'm doing my own mods of increasing complexity, going to meet & greets, and I've even written a couple how-to sheets on here. Weird. So, hey... welcome to the club.

To answer your question, modding has two clear and distinct paths: appearance and performance. You've rattled off some of the typical "My First Pony^H^H^H^HModification" type things in the performance path. A third-party exhaust is probably the next in line though that gets expensive.

Appearance mods range from bolt-on stuff like Billet Tech make that can jazz up your engine bay through replacement light assemblies through in-car-entertainment through replacement body parts!

A good way to learn about the breadth of what's out there is to take a browse down the supporting vendor area. In the forum list that displays different topics, the bottom several dozen are supporting vendors. Take an hour or so and kind of drop in, take a look at the thread titles, and you'll get a feel for what's out there. Lots of pictures. That will give you a feel for what kind of mods you're interested in. Then ask about them in the appropriate area (Interior Mods, Exterior Mods, Performance Mods).



A CAI-only replacement will net anywhere from a slight power loss to a slight power gain. Part of the question involves horsepower versus torque, which is a topic in and of itself. There've been a few comparisons done on a dyno but there are also a lot of people who measure using their "butt dyno". Feeling five to seven horsepower... I dunno. I'm skeptical, but hey.

Anyway, in general you don't need a custom tune to benefit from a CAI. There PCM that controls the engine's tune is adaptive and has a certain amount of adjustment that it will make without an actual program alteration. That being said, the DiabloSport Predator you mentioned will have "canned" tunes for CAI-only modded cars.



The sound change isn't the engine itself, or the exhaust note. When the RPMs get moderate to high - say 2500+ - the engine is breathing hard. The stock CAI has baffles and such that make this very quiet. 3rd-party CAI units don't, and are loud. There is a distinct and evident sucking noise. It's actually pleasant, not obnoxious. Inside the car, with windows rolled up you will barely hear it when you stomp on the gas, even knowing it's there. Windows down... you'll grin because it's a sound that evokes a sense of power. Your car is clearly doing something.

Also of note... you'll hear the word "drone" used often here. For you and I it means something specific. The 5.7L HEMI has MDS, wherein it shuts off four cylinders under appropriate conditions (a topic in itself). Because of this, exhaust tuning is kind of awkward. There are resonant frequencies associated with MDS mode that aren't present in full 8 cylinder mode. Many people cut out the resonators at the back and then replace the "suitcase" muffler. That causes drone in MDS mode. A replacement CAI won't impact this at all. CAI goes before the engine, exhaust after the engine. Different things. Oh, and incidentally, a Predator can be used to disable MDS if you happen to want. (I don't, but some do.)



No.

The only benefit in that case is to the petrochemical industry, who make a slightly higher profit margin by selling you a more expensive fuel. Higher octane fuels are (and I'm simplifying here) aren't "more powerful", but rather designed to compensate for attributes of a "more powerful" engine. It isn't a case of better vs worse. Lactose-free milk isn't "better" than normal milk, but under certain conditions it's called-for. Don't let the higher number fool you. Higher octane basically means "harder to ignite", preventing early ignition in certain engines.



This got answered pretty well and I've got nothing productive to add.



Again, answered well. To expand, this is mostly a case of principle. The SRT engineers themselves have repeatedly expressed that they do not believe that a catch-can is necessary. Having one is certainly not harmful, a viewpoint they have supported. That being said, as long as there's no hidden benefit to this re-burn, cleaner is - in principle - better than dirty. The engineers have agreed there's no harm in a catch-can, so there's no hidden benefit. I've got one.

I'd like to add that the oily gasses are deliberately re-burned. It isn't accidental or due to some flaw that they end up back in the engine.



Welcome to yet another topic in itself moment. Let's pause to catch our breath.

Ready?

Okay. Trim-levels. SE, SE+, SXT, R/T, R/T R&T, Daytona, SRT8, Superbee.

Let's focus on the upper end. The Superbee is simply an SRT8 with a limited-edition number badge, a unique paint colour each year, and some vinyl decals. You likely know what an SRT8 is but in a nutshell it's got the 6.1L HEMI, a different front fascia, a different hood, a bunch of other performance changes such as suspension and some more cosmetic queues. Fine. Let's jump down to the R/T. The R/T has the 5.7L HEMI. Jumping back upwards, a Daytona is an R/T with a unique paint colour, limited edition numbered badge, some vinyl decals, and some other stuff. That other stuff varies year-to-year, but typically it includes different wheels, a better CAI, a better exhaust and a couple other cosmetic queues. The Daytona gets (again, summarizing) 10hp over the base R/T because of the CAI and exhaust change.

The R/T with the "Road & Track package" (29R package in 2008) is effectively everything a Daytona is only missing: paint, decals, badge.

So. The reason you were asked if you have Road & Track is because if you do, you already have a "better" CAI and an aftermarket one has less overall benefit. It will still absolutely sound and look awesome, but you're probably only looking at 1-2hp, if that.

Yours being a 2009, it's easy to tell. Is the R/T badge in your front grille and on your trunk red? If it is, you do. If it's silver, you don't.



As above, not to contradict my forum-buddy zoomzoom1 but, well, I've never heard a lick of difference to the exhaust note. This is a perfect opportunity for everyone to leap on my head and crush me.



No significant difference. Your fuel-economy won't change in a measurable way. The statistical variance due to imprecise measurement will - by far - outweigh the change. Yes, you could measure this, but nobody does. Climate-controlled race tracks where we can precisely repeat driving conditions are kind of rare. I track my mileage religiously and a slight change in highway vs city vs brutal city driving has a huge impact on economy. A CAI is just noise as far as the statistics go.

Good luck, and go ahead and ask more. This is a friendly and helpful bunch here.

Wow, so much good info here, I can totally relate on geek level, I suspect we both have a little OCD going on, need info, obsessing a little (maybe a lot) :)

I have _never_ had a car that was actually any fun, or that I gave a poop about, man the Charger has changed that! :)

I have the silver R/T logo so I guess I am just "Race/Track" not "Race/Track Race/Track" (wth is up with that branding!!!?)

Any mods I do will be performance based, relatively cheap, and certainly bolt-on type easy :) Tweaking the settings of a PCM is a natural fit to me, custom exhausts, cam profiles, catbacks...this is all foreign, strange, and frankly scary, mechanical engineering is just alien to me :|

Bottom line seems like I should spend the ~$750, get a 180, a CAI, a Predator 91/CAI tune and start running 91 octane...oh, and I guess the CatchCan although I am terrible about remembering to empty the trash can in my house, never mind an oil can in my car :s

Speaking of which, given that oil in the intake seems to be generally considered "less than optimal", why don't manufacturers (aka Dodge) just fit catch cans that drain into the sump where the oil can just be "recycled", seems like a pretty simple thing? For that matter why don't the after market catch cans fit this way?

I am never going to get the $750+ past the wife without notice, never mind the probable 6 hours of cursing and swearing as I try to fit the 180/CAI, any suggestions for precedence if I am going to go one step at a time?

Thanks to everyone that has responded for the info, don't be shy about sharing more opinions or data :)

HW
 

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Bottom line seems like I should spend the ~$750, get a 180, a CAI, a Predator 91/CAI tune and start running 91 octane...oh, and I guess the CatchCan although I am terrible about remembering to empty the trash can in my house, never mind an oil can in my car :s
1} Billet now offers one with a clear bottom portion.
2} I do it when I get an oil change done.

Speaking of which, given that oil in the intake seems to be generally considered "less than optimal", why don't manufacturers (aka Dodge) just fit catch cans that drain into the sump where the oil can just be "recycled", seems like a pretty simple thing? For that matter why don't the after market catch cans fit this way?
The oil has impurities at that stage. Once you get one of these and drain it the first time, you'll see how it's sludgy, not very similar to your clean oil.

I am never going to get the $750+ past the wife without notice, never mind the probable 6 hours of cursing and swearing as I try to fit the 180/CAI, any suggestions for precedence if I am going to go one step at a time?
Take a look at Billet's Frankintake. It's affordable. It's also pretty darned easy to install. We can certainly help with that, but it's cheap and quick to do. It also looks and sounds good. So you can show off to the wife. "Look what I did to the car!" Step on the pedal a few times, it makes cool sucking noises, she sees that you're stepping outside of your geeky comfort zone, it was affordable... she starts to trust this whole car thing.

Next grab a catch-can. Harder install but nothing serious. It's also a 1 out of 10. Throw that on and again, show off. Maybe also get a set of Billet's under-hood caps for show. Sparkly, huh? Again this stuff is affordable and visible to the wife. Show some enthusiasm, and the reasonable bill.

Third, watch the For Sale area in the forum for a used Predator. Snag a good deal. This one won't have a visible change she'll see and it'll be about $300 used, so that's why you save it for near the end. This one you sell to her as "a great deal and absolutely necessary for any future mods". You know you need one of these to program the PCM if you change tire sizes in the future, right? So hey, winter tires some day, right? It was a good deal.

Finally, once you're doing track activities, grab the thermostat.

Point is... don't do it all at once. Show enthusiasm and interest and a growing new hobby. Don't spend more than you have, and hey, what's the difference between a catch-can and a new pair of shoes?
 

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I have the silver R/T logo so I guess I am just "Race/Track" not "Race/Track Race/Track" (wth is up with that branding!!!?)


The R/T comes from the 1967 model year of Dodge when they came out with the Coronet R/T when Plymouth came out with the GTX designation.

Why in the world they would offer a Charger R/T and then have to buy the Road and Track package on an R/T is rather inane, but that is what the Germans wanted when they were DaimlerChrysler.



Any mods I do will be performance based, relatively cheap, and certainly bolt-on type easy :) Tweaking the settings of a PCM is a natural fit to me, custom exhausts, cam profiles, catbacks...this is all foreign, strange, and frankly scary, mechanical engineering is just alien to me :

Many people that are not confident in mechanical adjustments usually go this way, and there is nothing wrong with it. There are many ways to improve your car without tearing into the motor etc.


Bottom line seems like I should spend the ~$750, get a 180, a CAI, a Predator 91/CAI tune and start running 91 octane...oh, and I guess the CatchCan although I am terrible about remembering to empty the trash can in my house, never mind an oil can in my car :s

You can run the ACES IV Gasoline Formula Fuel Catalyst in your gasoline which is a simple pour and go system and produce more power, lubricate the cylinders reducing bore wear by 600%, stem and guide wear by 360%, seal 40% more carbon and blowby from getting into your oil and protect your fuel system from the ethyl alcohol (Ethanol) corrosion and rust. 1 oz per 6 gallons and you can even run 89 octane fuel with the 91 octane tune.

Speaking of which, given that oil in the intake seems to be generally considered "less than optimal", why don't manufacturers (aka Dodge) just fit catch cans that drain into the sump where the oil can just be "recycled", seems like a pretty simple thing? For that matter why don't the after market catch cans fit this way?

Many cars run well into 100,000 miles with the current PCV type system which has been standard fare since 1968. Typically, 95% of the people driving cars every day are not performance oriented. Therefore, there really isn't " anything wrong" with the car and you have to remember that the manufacturers are trying to save a nickle here and there x 2 million cars is $100,000 dollars etc.

The amount of oil that enters the system is dependent on what the Vapor threshould or vapor point of the oil is. Typical mineral oils have a standard of no more than 35% volatility. This means that of the 7 quarts of oil you put in the engine, 2.45 quarts are highly reactive and will tend to turn to vapor once it has absorbed enough latent heat. It travels up the tube and gives off this latent heat to condense back into a liquid and is then sucked into the intake. Much like boiling a pan of water turns it into steam (vapor threshold of 212 degrees F) and then finds your ice tea on the table and the vapor turns back to water and ends up on your table and your wife then gets to yell at you for putting a ring on the table etc (LOL)

Typical store bought synthetics have a 15% maximum volatility so in your 7 quarts you will have 1.05 quarts of high reactives that hit vapor point and again into the intake.

Our QuantumBlue Custom Blended Lubricants have 1.5% total highly reactives so in a 7 quart system you would have 3.36 oz of vapor into the tube. (7qts x 32 oz = 224 oz x .015 = 3.36 oz). This makes a Catch Can much less needed than would be typical. Remember the higher the vapor point or resistance to changing states of matter, the more your oil will stay in the crankcase and take time lubricating your engine.


I am never going to get the $750+ past the wife without notice, never mind the probable 6 hours of cursing and swearing as I try to fit the 180/CAI, any suggestions for precedence if I am going to go one step at a time?

Thanks to everyone that has responded for the info, don't be shy about sharing more opinions or data :)

HW
Ultimately it is up to you which way you go and what you want to afford. Using the ACES IV and the QuantumBlue Custom Blended oils for your car will produce extra power, much better protection, assist your Predator and give you a 10K mile drain interval safely to protect the internals of your engine with much much less vapor going into your catch can......if you get one!:beerchug:

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
 

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I have had a 2009 Charger 5.7 for a couple of months now, what a fun car :)

Having stumbled across this forum I now have a headfull of questions about what simple mods I could be doing to make it even more fun :D

Hopefully somebody can point me to "The Idiots Guide To Basic Charger Mods" or something similar? My gut feel is that there are three basic mods I should be considering, a CAI, a 180 degree thermostat, and a Predator tune?

Questions I have include;

I think I understand the basic benefits of a CAI (more, cooler airflow). What I am less clear on is if that is the only thing I change, will I gain anything or does it require a tune to take advantage of it?

I have read posts indicating that a CAI will change the sound...the sound of what? The exhaust? The engine? Is it going to increase cabin noise or contribute toward that horrible drone I hear from "coffee can mufflers"?

Is there any benefit to using higher octane fuel without a tune?

What is the 180 degree thermostat actually going to do for me in real terms? I get that the engine will run cooler...why do I care from a performance perspective? I assume that a cooler running engine is going to last longer, but surely at some cost to the cooling system that is now running much more than it would be stock?

WTH is a Billet Catch Can, what does it do, why do I care?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Cheers

HappyWino
With the correct CAI you will gain 8-10 horse but with a tune you gain more.

The AirScammer and AFE will add alot of sound but not a such as those crazy "coffee can mufflers"!:D

Yes, 91 octane seems to be the best for cost vs. gain

I don't believe there will be that much additional wear and tear from adding a T-stat. The coolor engine will have a cooler air charger which will increase performance.

The catch can is traditional use more on turbo cars but our engine have a (flawed if you will?) system but it will benifit you by the excess oil going into the catch can instead of sizzling inthe valley pan area and increasing heat.

I hope this help BTW I'd choose a CAI that gets cold air from outside the engine bay i.e. GSM, RDP, BWoody, etc..)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
if you are going one step at a time, i would say get the CAI first then get the predator. the t-stat should be installed after you have the predator so you can change the fan settings.
Interesting, my gut feel was to get the Predator and T-Stat first (as the T-Stat is inexpensive), switch to 91 octane fuel and put on the 91 tune (and do whatever I need to for the T-Stat).

Then at a later date add a CAI and the associated tune, then the catch can.

My reasoning here was that I can get the most out of any changes I make if I get the Predator upfront...think I have it bass-ackwards?

Cheers

HW
 

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Interesting, my gut feel was to get the Predator and T-Stat first (as the T-Stat is inexpensive), switch to 91 octane fuel and put on the 91 tune (and do whatever I need to for the T-Stat).

Then at a later date add a CAI and the associated tune, then the catch can.

My reasoning here was that I can get the most out of any changes I make if I get the Predator upfront...think I have it bass-ackwards?
Arguable. The thermostat isn't going to directly give you performance. Also, while it's cheap, the Predator isn't. What you do with the Predator for a thermostat change is alter the temp thresholds for the fan. That's it.

I don't think anyone's actually started with a Predator and put their car on a dyno to tell us what the actual gains are, so it's hard for me to point to what the "right" way of doing this is. Certainly you're doing it backwards from what people usually do, but I suspect that's more because people get deeper into the performance mods slowly. A little here, a little there, then suddenly you need a Predator.

Shrug.
 

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Arguable. The thermostat isn't going to directly give you performance. Also, while it's cheap, the Predator isn't. What you do with the Predator for a thermostat change is alter the temp thresholds for the fan. That's it.

I don't think anyone's actually started with a Predator and put their car on a dyno to tell us what the actual gains are, so it's hard for me to point to what the "right" way of doing this is. Certainly you're doing it backwards from what people usually do, but I suspect that's more because people get deeper into the performance mods slowly. A little here, a little there, then suddenly you need a Predator.

Shrug.
Tell me about it!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Reading a thread somewhere else made me suddenly worry...are any of the mods I am considering (Predator/180T/CAI) going to cause problems when I need to pass CA emissions? :|

Thanks

HW
 
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