Charger Forums banner

21 - 40 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
I tried mixing octanes once but my gasoline charge card fraud department locked my card because of two back to back transactions caused when I swiped it to buy 93 and swiped it again to switch over to 87. I just decided to axe the practice instead of hassling with unlocking the card.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
996 Posts
As far as I've learned....Mfr's today, build the engines to suit all states and are now limited to 91 octane as max...The 93 octane was enabling higher compressions, advanced igntion timing, and thus, slightly higher HP/torque outputs...My question is "why" was a State gov't allowed to dictate the max octane we can purchase, and hence the max power of the engines..[may also say the economy as MPG gets hurt as well when ignition is retarded by computers sensing knock]. More importantly, what law keeps them from lowering octane again ....? I've seen no written articles on the point...But simply ask any Calif members if they are able to purchase 93 at any stations, for normal driving needs..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #23 (Edited)
Try Find 93 Octane Gas: Locate Gasoline Stations Selling Premium

Until someone from Calif chimes in this will at least identify locations selling 93 or higher across the country. In CA, 93 appears to be limited but someone can mix readily available 100 Octane in the state to make 93. Not ideal for cross country travelers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
996 Posts
Doesn't matter...If you bought a car that should run on 93..[maybe years ago] .you should NOT have to drive long distances today, [or purchase special race fuel ] to simply enable routine driving...commuting, etc..I hope you are right/..that it is not through out the state...If that's the case..then the change in octane would have been the Oil company decision....But Why ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
My hypothesis is that it is the automakers setting 91 as the "premium" octane for designing engines that run on premium, not he state of Calif. This is an article from 2018 where Automakers Pushing To Make 91 Octane Fuel The New Standard In U.S. | Carscoops

Imagine the riled owners of cars designed to run on less expensive 87 Octane if the standard for "regular" gasoline is uniformly set by automakers to be 91 instead of 87.

However, the article uses faulty logic and says by making the "regular" gasoline 91 octane it will make prices lower. For whom? Drivers that currently need 91 octane for their car, or the greater number of drivers that currently require 87 who will see a price increase as they purchase 91.

If you are concerned about Calif setting the octane level for gasoline as the benchmark to design engines run on Premium, what do you think about an automaker predicting what the price of gasoline should cost?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
996 Posts
I merely care "IF" the State Governments are able to change the definition of "anything",...In this case...the word Premium as it pertains to fuel octanes....I still don't understand why the definition needed to be changed...Whether it was oil companies or Gov't ! Some owners manuals of yrs ago, would state "Use Premium Fuel" ---- even on the dash....You would need to dig a little further to read it is 93 octane... sometimes on the gas tank door....Nowhere was 91 considered Premium...The Article is amusing....Auto mfrs to force 87 regular upscale....Maybe cause more of the 4 cyl's are getting Turbo's...and showroom buyers shy away from cars requiring premium...?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,279 Posts
Here in SW Ohio, the norm for the last 5ish years has been back and forth between $2 to $2.70 a gallon depending on the day of the week. There was a strange period in January where we had a very pleasant drop to $1.60-$1.70 a gallon. This went on for a week, and at the time most of the surrounding towns were still at or over $2 a gallon.

When I bought my first SUV back in 2003, I recall filling it up at a a nearby station for $1.65 a gallon. It's 25 gallon tank was the largest I had owned at the time. Little did I know, of the market mess that 2008 would bring where we all saw fuel exceed $3 and $4 regularly for too long.
Looking at my fuel app just now, the spread looks like $1.83- $2.21.
I have always felt that if they could fix it so we would never exceed $2.50, most could probably budget and live with that.

Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
996 Posts
Doubtful.....Hope we can hear from members that travel through Calif....I'm thinking we are going to hear 93 is not for sale at all...for normal driving...And...because this thread is mainly about gas prices....Wouldn't that mean Calif people are paying tooo much for gas...if the more expensive higher octane is eliminated from production....?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,184 Posts
93 at Speedway/Marathon was $2.99 today here in Central PA. That's the lowest I have seen Premium in a long, long time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
I merely care "IF" the State Governments are able to change the definition of "anything",...In this case...the word Premium as it pertains to fuel octanes....I still don't understand why the definition needed to be changed...Whether it was oil companies or Gov't ! Some owners manuals of yrs ago, would state "Use Premium Fuel" ---- even on the dash....You would need to dig a little further to read it is 93 octane... sometimes on the gas tank door....Nowhere was 91 considered Premium...The Article is amusing....Auto mfrs to force 87 regular upscale....Maybe cause more of the 4 cyl's are getting Turbo's...and showroom buyers shy away from cars requiring premium...?
The answer to your "IF" question is, States do not and cannot change the definition of what is called Premium. States can establish what is sold. States can determine additives (winter and summer blends). Texas, for example is a 87/89/91 octane state but I can buy anything in my own city from 86 to 93 because the state does not prohibit variations if the company wants to sell it and its properly labeled.

In reply to your question about why definitions needed to be changed is not so cut and dry. What caused the change to what we now call Regular and Premium is essentially technology. Modern engines incorporate advanced fuel, air and ignition systems that not longer require high octane fuels of the 60s and early 70s. And as a result refiners recognizing they no longer need to make high octane blends for modern cars.

Do you remember what the octane-range was for premium in the 60's? Yes, the range. It never was one Octane number. Premium BITD ranged from the mid to high 90s and what was called super-premium was over 100 octane. All that happened over time is the octane range of gas has been lowered to fit each category. And that was the result of no longer needing triple digit and high 90 octanes due to technologically advanced engine control systems on all but the exotic of modern cars. With few exceptions, all modern cars can operate just fine on 91 Octane where premium is recommended and still get good performance. However, I will lightly walk that back next as I explain how automakers are adding caveats to their HP ratings.

You don't need to go back years ago to read about the need to use 93 octane - - its still the case on many new model cars where the manufacture recommends 91 Octane. Let me explain.

Examples: 2020 Mustangs can run on lower octane gas but they will only achieve max RATED HP if you use 93 they obscurely mention in their manuals and advertising. My 2012 Mustang, before I installed the SC, ran on 87 per factory spec without any knocking even when floored but only achieved max HP on 93 according to the owners manual. And the recommended fuel for the Scat Pack is 91 but will not get max HP without using 93 octane.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
996 Posts
My point remains....why is this only happening in Calif? I call it changing the definition of the word...premium...I had a 94 vehicle for 24 yrs...it required 93 to produce the ratings...{ I'm also well aware of the 60's fuel octane games...trying to keep that out of discussion]...I just sold that car 2 yrs ago and bought the Charger...Will somebody [State or ?] --re-define premium again...maybe to 89 octane...in near future..?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,233 Posts
Its around USD 0.59 cents per litre of 87 octane right now here in West Toronto (coronovirus scare discount included).
Or if Im doing this correctly, $2.2 USD / gallon?

Damn...you guys really do have gas, cheap!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,184 Posts
$2.89 at Speedway for 93.

As for the 91/93 issue, around here, and to the best of my knowledge, 93 is more readily available than 91. I usually only see 91 at Sunoco where they have 87/89/91/93. Most gas stations are 87/89/93.

I've always used 93. As for the 91 compared to 93 and the craphole of California, I also remember seeing that Ford's EcoBoost motors were tested at lower octane, however perform much better with 93. My buddy with a 2.7 EB runs 87 but said it is night and day performance wise between 87 and 93.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
Its around USD 0.59 cents per litre of 87 octane right now here in West Toronto (coronovirus scare discount included).
Or if Im doing this correctly, $2.2 USD / gallon?

Damn...you guys really do have gas, cheap!
Do you live in a part of Canada that requires an attendant to fill your tank? Does that impact prices in those areas?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,233 Posts
Do you live in a part of Canada that requires an attendant to fill your tank? Does that impact prices in those areas?
Nope!
A few areas out in the countryside do tend to have attendants - but they dont jack up prices all that more vs the city.

Although, the higher up north you go - there is a tendency for petrol to be slightly more expensive (by 5-10 cents or so)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
A week ago I was paying about $2.60 USD a gallon for 91 and today the price was $2.30 for 91 and $1.88 for 87.

Are prices going down in your area? Wonder what accounts for the steep drop in 1 week.
Oil has been dropping loke crazy bcuz of price wars between rusdia and saudia arabia and CV fears
 
21 - 40 of 56 Posts
Top