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Discussion Starter #1
i think the title kinda says it all.
does 5x115 = 5x114.3 bolt pattern?

i see a lot of ads say that their wheels will fit chargers but they have 114.3's and i know we have a 115.
 

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Some say fine, some say all 4 wheels will fall off and you will die.

I ran 5x114.3 (old 22's) for almost a year, then sold them to another Charger owner. Neither he or I have had ANY problems.
 

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5x115mm = 5x4.53"

5x114.3mm = 5x4.50"



There have been some who have had studs break off or vibration issues, but I guess the vibration issues can be fixed through the use of hub-centric rings.

I'd use what the car's meant to use, 5x115mm, and in all my searching for rims, if I don't find one in 5x115mm, I'm no longer interested in that particular style ...
 

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Its hard to believe .7mm difference will cause problems. Im not calling you a liar by any means but the difference is next to none.
 

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just have to be careful of the offset...that means a lot of difference.
 

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I wouldnt do it personally... the base of the nut wont sit properly in the wheel...
 

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There is no big deal, really. Most if not all aftermarket wheel companies have "play" in thier "bolt centric" applications of 5x115 or 5x114.3. Why you ask? Because they will have more car applications they can fit. They are in it to make money and if they drill the bolt holes with a little play, they can fit more cars. If you take a wheel with a 5x115 bolt pattern it will fit a car with 5x114.3 and vice versa. As long as you get hubcentric rings you should be fine. I had TSW wheels before on my charger and never had any problems. Hell my first set of 24" were 5x120 bolt pattern. Those had to be tapped to become 5x115, but I never had any problems with them.
 

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Its hard to believe .7mm difference will cause problems. Im not calling you a liar by any means but the difference is next to none.

oh it will believe it or not...as minute as the measurement might be....


just have to be careful of the offset...that means a lot of difference.

Yes it does...X10
 

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This is a huge safety concern here i must say...i mean if some of you guys are running the 114.3 bolt pattern and getting away with it then, thats all well and good...but you wont catch me messing with something like the wheels that could potentially come loose and fall off b/c of a couple of millimeters of difference in the bolt patterns...its just not a chance im willing to take...the cars came with a wheel with a 5x115 bolt pattern, so thats what im putting on, to all of you who choose to go the different route...well you got more balls then i do...and i hope nothing horrible happens...
 

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If your gonna mix up bolt patterns... then atleast use hub-centric rings or make sure your wheels are hub-centric...

Any time I put wheels on a customers car, I always make sure to have hub-centric rings in place... I do not want the liability for the wheels breaking off the hub bolts (and Ive seen it happen where a wheel shiered off all the bolts and went flying off the freeway)((on 2 different cars actually))

and I would atleast make sure you use lug nuts like what is on the RIGHT in this picture, the ones on the left will force the wheel stud to bend to sit flat / flush on the wheel...
 

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I can't believe you guys are making it sound like .7 of a mm is so far off when it comes to mounting wheels on a car! That's not quite the distance across the tip of a ball point pin. If you put the proper lug on, like CKD posted, and tighten them correctly, then torque them done in the proper order (as you should be doing with any wheel, you will not be able to notice the difference, nor will it add any additional stress on the lugs. It won't cause any wobbles either. Your average tire out of round by more than 4x that, and still passes inspection for safe use on road.
Also, has anyone noticed the size of the lugs the charger platform is running? That size is usually found on trucks, not cars. There is enough tolorence in the wheel bolt hole to suffice for the 114.3 when using the proper type lug.
 

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It can not be justified in any reasonble manner that running 114.3's on 115mm centers is wise. It is not wise. You may not have an issue as others have stated, but what do you really risk if something does go wrong; Your life, or your kids/wife/girlfriend/mum/dad/etc? How about others in the immediate vicinity if it fails? How about the insurance company when they realize you elected to use wheels that were never designed to fit your vehicle?

From an engineering and mechanical standpoint, it is foolish.
 

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It can not be justified in any reasonble manner that running 114.3's on 115mm centers is wise. It is not wise. You may not have an issue as others have stated, but what do you really risk if something does go wrong; Your life, or your kids/wife/girlfriend/mum/dad/etc? How about others in the immediate vicinity if it fails? How about the insurance company when they realize you elected to use wheels that were never designed to fit your vehicle?

From an engineering and mechanical standpoint, it is foolish.
Okay, for those of you without an engineering degree, take a look at a ruler that shows millimeters, cenitmeters and inches. Take a look at the millimeters. There are 32 millimeters in one inch! A millimeter is 1/32 of an inch. The difference between 115mm and 114.3 is .7mm. That means using the 114.3 would have each stud off center by .35 of a millimeter. So we are talking 1/3 of a millimeter off. In engineering and manufacturing, you will find there are always tolorences. So with your engineering background, you believe that .35mm is not within a very resonable tolorence for a wheel mounted on 5 heavy duty studs? There has to be about that much clearance between the stud and the bolt hole of the wheel. As a matter of fact, when you put a bolt on a nut, I can bet there is about .3mm distance between the nut and bolt. Measure it if you doubt me. So take out your micrometer, and your text book.
 

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When you tighten the lug nuts, on a proper fit they center themselves based on the 60 degree chamfer present on both the lugnut and the rim center section.

When you attempt to tighten down studs which reside on a 115mm on-center pattern, "at best" (impossible) every stud is displaced laterally 0.35mm towards the center. This means that the M14-1.5mm studs are expected to deflect 0.35mm sideways to the load (under tension), over a distance of ~8.5mm (from hub base to base of conical section on wheel). Given that 8.5mm is ~60% of the overall thickness of the stud itself, what do you think will happen.

Now add to this that most folks will likely tighten one lugnut pretty well to the point that it is properly seated (conical faces mated), then another, so which stud...or studs...will be subjected to a greater lateral displacement (greater than 0.35mm) after they have all been torqued to the proper (ya right) specification? I'll add that most folks "already" overtighten their lugnuts and I'm sure do not employ a torque wrench (a "really" good idea with cast/machined aluminum wheels) which is bound to put even more undue stress on one or more of the studs.

Heck, we have not even begun to address the increased (and now constantly varying) loading while operating the vehicle...and how the stud material within the thread valleys is exceeding it's glass transition point and precipitating a fissure...
 

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When you tighten the lug nuts, on a proper fit they center themselves based on the 60 degree chamfer present on both the lugnut and the rim center section.

When you attempt to tighten down studs which reside on a 115mm on-center pattern, "at best" (impossible) every stud is displaced laterally 0.35mm towards the center. This means that the M14-1.5mm studs are expected to deflect 0.35mm sideways to the load (under tension), over a distance of ~8.5mm (from hub base to base of conical section on wheel). Given that 8.5mm is ~60% of the overall thickness of the stud itself, what do you think will happen.

Now add to this that most folks will likely tighten one lugnut pretty well to the point that it is properly seated (conical faces mated), then another, so which stud...or studs...will be subjected to a greater lateral displacement (greater than 0.35mm) after they have all been torqued to the proper (ya right) specification? I'll add that most folks "already" overtighten their lugnuts and I'm sure do not employ a torque wrench (a "really" good idea with cast/machined aluminum wheels) which is bound to put even more undue stress on one or more of the studs.

Heck, we have not even begun to address the increased (and now constantly varying) loading while operating the vehicle...and how the stud material within the thread valleys is exceeding it's glass transition point and precipitating a fissure...
Wow, not sure if it's all the beer I drank tonight, but it's like reading Japanese.
My Axis Ordens that I ordered(uninstalled) have a front 5X115, and the rears have a 5X114.3, I was told this would not be a problem at all, now you all have me nervous, I have 2 kids and don't wanna put them in jeopardy.
 

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When you tighten the lug nuts, on a proper fit they center themselves based on the 60 degree chamfer present on both the lugnut and the rim center section.

When you attempt to tighten down studs which reside on a 115mm on-center pattern, "at best" (impossible) every stud is displaced laterally 0.35mm towards the center. This means that the M14-1.5mm studs are expected to deflect 0.35mm sideways to the load (under tension), over a distance of ~8.5mm (from hub base to base of conical section on wheel). Given that 8.5mm is ~60% of the overall thickness of the stud itself, what do you think will happen.

Now add to this that most folks will likely tighten one lugnut pretty well to the point that it is properly seated (conical faces mated), then another, so which stud...or studs...will be subjected to a greater lateral displacement (greater than 0.35mm) after they have all been torqued to the proper (ya right) specification? I'll add that most folks "already" overtighten their lugnuts and I'm sure do not employ a torque wrench (a "really" good idea with cast/machined aluminum wheels) which is bound to put even more undue stress on one or more of the studs.

Heck, we have not even begun to address the increased (and now constantly varying) loading while operating the vehicle...and how the stud material within the thread valleys is exceeding it's glass transition point and precipitating a fissure...
Okay, re-check the amount of play you have in the lug nut to to thread contact. Due to that alone, you are probably not deflecting the lug at all, if .1mm(being generous). Your overall contact area between the lug and stud is going remain pretty much the same. If it were not for the spacing in the contact area between the stud and nut, then by all means, the stud would probably be deflected as your numbers suggest.... but then, you wouldn't be able to turn the stud on by hand.
Your theory would hold up if we were dealing with tolorences less than .10mm, but you cannot even count on your wheels to be anywhere near that, especially after being taken on and off time and time again, especially with rotations, bumps, potholes in the road.
The biggest issue you will encounter with wheels braking loose and killing you and your family is improper installment and torque applied to the lug nuts themselves, not an off center bolt pattern of .35mm. For that instance, if you check the run-out of the mating surfaces, I am sure you will find somewhere in the area of .05-.2 difference. For that alone, I gurantee the studs being used are designed to handle that too.
We could go on presenting our cases. but lets talk real world here. How many people have experienced broken studs? If you are overtightening your lugs, then you are the risk, not the .7mm difference, that's a whole other matter.
 

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Heck, we have not even begun to address the increased (and now constantly varying) loading while operating the vehicle...and how the stud material within the thread valleys is exceeding it's glass transition point and precipitating a fissure...
Come on now :lol:
 

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Okay, re-check the amount of play you have in the lug nut to to thread contact. Due to that alone, you are probably not deflecting the lug at all, if .1mm(being generous). Your overall contact area between the lug and stud is going remain pretty much the same. If it were not for the spacing in the contact area between the stud and nut, then by all means, the stud would probably be deflected as your numbers suggest.... but then, you wouldn't be able to turn the stud on by hand.
Your theory would hold up if we were dealing with tolorences less than .10mm, but you cannot even count on your wheels to be anywhere near that, especially after being taken on and off time and time again, especially with rotations, bumps, potholes in the road.
The biggest issue you will encounter with wheels braking loose and killing you and your family is improper installment and torque applied to the lug nuts themselves, not an off center bolt pattern of .35mm. For that instance, if you check the run-out of the mating surfaces, I am sure you will find somewhere in the area of .05-.2 difference. For that alone, I gurantee the studs being used are designed to handle that too.
We could go on presenting our cases. but lets talk real world here. How many people have experienced broken studs? If you are overtightening your lugs, then you are the risk, not the .7mm difference, that's a whole other matter.
I agree with you all day! Most if not all broken studs happen because of overtightening. Every wheel shop I have ever been to tightens with an impact gun. I always ask if they can hand tighten the lugs with a torque wrench.
 
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