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Here's a topic that has been bugging me for a while and I thought (after months of thinking about it) I'd throw it out there for opinions (if there are any to be had....).

Most, if not all the guys that own a Charger here love the car! They love the ride, the power, the torque, the looks, the lines - you name it - they love it. However, there are those that although loving all these things, want to personalise, or improve (in their mind and following their tastes) their ride. Which is a good thing.

However, this is where my confusion begins. It is broadly known that some/many of the mods, expecially the performance increasing ones, will void the vehicle warranty in some way or another. There are those that accept this and go for it, but there are those that want to take the vehicle from its 'in warranty' state to an 'out of warranty' state, but still want the warranty should anything go wrong.

I have seen advice given many times to change the vehicle back to a state which would not arouse suspicion at a dealers when/if things go wrong.

Here is my point. Isn't that kind of wrong? That DCX should be paying out on warranty repairs which *might* (and I say might, because there are many things that can go wrong and a failure might not actually be attributed to the removed mods) be the fault of the vehicle owner/modder? Isn't this obtaining work by deception? Isn't this a case of having the cake, eating it, regurgitating it and eating it again?

I see many people rave about the Charger and Dodge in general. Considering the difficulties within the US car manufacturing industry, doesn't unfairly drawing funds from DCX actually increase the risk that they are unable to operate as a business with any success? Doesn't it actually weaken their position within the market, if people are wrongly getting work done on their cars? Now - I know that DCX's probably mismanagement is the main cause of their issues, but wouldn't people be pi$$ed off, if a vehicle such as the Challanger was canned, because of the drainage of funds by deceptive means?

I just don't understand somebody who can sit and write that they are a Dodge guy/girl, or a Charger fanatic and then believe that they should try and get warranty work on a vehicle that in all honesty, should not have the work covered.

I am in no way pointing at ANYBODY directly - more at a trend that I have seen. I am in no way saying that this drain is significant.

It's just the philosophy I am questioning.

arf.
 

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Mopar parts do not void DCX warranty so stick with them. DCX should have known going in that a Lifetime warranty could spell doom for their warranty payouts due to a large amount of people taking advantage of their warranties. People will use the lifetime warranty and DCX will lose money on it in the long term. I just hope it is not enough to bankrupt them.
 

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Mopar parts do not void DCX warranty so stick with them. DCX should have known going in that a Lifetime warranty could spell doom for their warranty payouts due to a large amount of people taking advantage of their warranties. People will use the lifetime warranty and DCX will lose money on it in the long term. I just hope it is not enough to bankrupt them.
Not talking about DCX covered parts - as they accept the risk by covering them. I'm talking about parts that are not in any way covered by DCX.

Lifetime warranty....mmmmm.... I think a lot of claims will result in "it's worn out sir, it has not 'failed', therefore, it is not covered".

I would love to see the wording on this lifetime warranty, because I bet that most of the systems which eventually fail due to old age and milage, will be classified as 'worn out' and will not be covered.
 

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I think you are right. If you do something that could effect the vehicle negatively, then the individual should be responsible for the work. I wish that things like adding factory equipment on your own, i.e. a radio change done on your own, would be a non-issue...but we all know it will be unless your service manager is a drinking/golfing/skeleton in the closet and you have the key kind of guy.

I met a guy with a Daytona that he had done a lot to the motor, and he mentioned that it would take a tear down of the engine to detect the mods he had done so he wasn't too worried about warranty, but he still wanted it in case....
 

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I'm not saying what you describe doesn't happen, because it does, but SOMETIMES, certain dealers will refuse to perform warranty work on part X because part Y was modded, when part X has nothing to do with part Y. "You've put new wheels on, so I won't fix your window motor because you modded the car." This is one valid (IMHO) reason for the behavior you describe, with no intention to defraud.

I agree: if there is intention to get something fixed that broke as a result of a third-party mod which is removed before requesting warranty repair, then that's plainly wrong. :smoke:
 

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I'm not saying what you describe doesn't happen, because it does, but SOMETIMES, certain dealers will refuse to perform warranty work on part X because part Y was modded, when part X has nothing to do with part Y. "You've put new wheels on, so I won't fix your window motor because you modded the car." This is one valid (IMHO) reason for the behavior you describe, with no intention to defraud.

I agree: if there is intention to get something fixed that broke as a result of a third-party mod which is removed before requesting warranty repair, then that's plainly wrong. :smoke:
ditto
 

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Yeah, its a big mess. Heres what factual.

A. Mopar Accessory parts indeed do not affect a warranty. However, and heres the big kicker, Mopar Performance parts, as indicated by the P as the first digit of the part number, can negatively affect a warranty, in addition to not carrying ANY warranty of thier own.

B) Every dealer is different, and every service writer/manager is different. No way to predict in advance what mods will be accepted, or not, or if they will bve treated fairly.

In five years of seeing reports, I've seen many variation. Guys with ridiculous levels of modification get full coverage, and a poor kid who had the dealer not only install a Mopar part incorrectly, but, when that improper installation caused an engine bay fire, they tried to blame the part.

Luckily for him, we got Mopar involved, and they, not wanting thier rep trashed, nailed the dealerm who then made it right.
 

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I agree fully with all that was said, I wouldn't expect someone to warranty MY window motor, as all my electronics have been cut to install enough loom for them to run to my door when it is in the upright position. Custom doors-- therfor I dont expect warranty work on my doors. Common sense to me, but some are... not so intelligent.
 

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I think that we as a society just don't care anymore if it involves money out of our own pocket. Twenty plus years ago people didn't pull that stuff, probably because alot of people have lost their integrity. I'm no preaching, just saying we alol want our cake and eat it too, just sometimes people try to steal the flour to make the cake.

As for the guy on the internal mods whatever stuff on the inside- I have talked to engine builders and engineers in great detail, and from a chip to a valve grind to major engine work- they have explained in great detail to me how they are able to tell what was done. They ask for certain parts back that have no history of failure, or have odd criteria to the failure. They also tear major components down to inspect and test electrical components.

I guess what I am saying is "guy with a Daytona that he had done a lot to the motor" may get away with it once, maybe twice, but then someone will get a phone call at the dealership to void a warranty and contact customer. This is all of that extra cost it takes that has to be recouped by selling more cars of raising their prices. That's the idea that Arfur is talking about.

In the service department we play a balance game of customer retention versus coverage of components. I have worked with heavy modded vehicles like our "go fast" cars to severely lifted jeeps/pickups to light mods like chips and aftermarket add on's. The problem exsists that when ever a dealer does something for one guy, they have to (or should) do it for all- good customer or bad. It sets a precedence with your policy or interpetation of the warranty.

If I have one customer who puts a chip in car then comes back with engine failure due to piston melt down, I have to treat him the same as the next guy who may walk in the door. In that specefic case I would tell the customer we need their auth to pull it down and inspect for possible cause other than the mod. If there is no other cause then it will not be warranty. I always start out that it is customer pay until we find different.

Little more that 2 cents- oh well.
 

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I agree with everyone on this thread but I also think some dealerships perpetuate the problem by trying to mislead customers about what will and will not void the warranty. Case in point...When I was sitting down and signing the contract on my Charger with the finance manager he told me that I had to pick service plan A or Service plan B. One plan was for oil changes at 3k intervals and the other was around 7.5k I think. I chose the 3k interval because that is what I have always done on my vehicles. He spent the next few minutes telling me that I had to get the oil changed exactly every 3k miles, had to have it done at a dealership, and had to have it documented in my customer care manual or my warranty would be voided. I thought this was a little strange but said to my self "ok, I'll play your silly little game.."
Needless to say I quickly learned it was a bunch of crap to keep business at his dealership when I took it in for the first oil change and they never asked for my manual. Each time I have taken it in for warranty work they have never asked to see my manual to ensure I didn't void my warranty....

Why is it that you always put your .02 cents in but people only give you a penny for your thoughts? Where does that extra penny go?
 

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You wouldn't believe how many of these cases we see at work. Especially the dudes with nitrous lines sitting there, though disconnected, the bottle removed, and the hole plugged up, and then saying that they never sprayed, so it wasn't that which caused the engine failure. That always makes me laugh.
 

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As complex as the codes are for the DCX engines and electronics I have to believe that DCX has ways of detecting something has been modded on the vehicle to prove or disprove you added, then removed a mod prior to bringing it in for warranty service. It can be something as simple as a Superchips or CAI. Don't forget the little black box in our cars that records the last minutes/hours(?) of activity.

I know a lot of guys that say they want to keep their factory warranty intact so they only added a Superchips for now because they can take it off when they go in for service. I guess if that helps you sleep better at night then more power to ya. If something goes wrong with the engine don't ya think the first thing a tech would search the system for would be something like that? Its gonna leave a 'fingerprint' even after its removed. Although the service people at the dealerships may be clue-less on some of the hottest and most common mods, the guys that put together the performance cars the sit at the Mopar carshow displays are not.

Correct, Mopar accessories are covered by warranty but ALL Mopar performance parts beginning with the letter "P" are sold "as is" with no warranty whatsoever. Why? Some parts are intended for "off-road use only" and could void the vehicle's factory warranty. This means that if DCX can prove a performance part caused the problem then your warranty claim goes bye-bye. For all the folks out there doing the "safe" mods, this does include your Mopar CAI, Mopar Cat-back Exhuast, Mopar LT Headers, Mopar Coil Over Suspension Kit and Lowering Springs just to name a few. There is actually a disclaimer on the Mopar website that says those 4 parts are "not legal for sale on pollution-controlled vehicles registered for highway use".

IMO enjoy the car and mod it the way that you see fit or leave it alone and just drive it as it came from the factory. If you upgrade the car with performance parts then I don't think you should expect warranty repair if you know that part caused the problem. If there is question on whether aftermarket parts caused the problem I say it should be proven without a reason of doubt to deny the warranty claim.
 

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TB? Just for claritys sake, that black box you refer to has nothing to do with this subject. It only records minuts, only in a crash or near crash, and only data that wouldnt show anything like that. Brake pedal position and pressure, steering wheel angle, throttle position, that sort of thing.

Now about that "proven without a doubt". Thats where the ugliness comes in. In %99 of cases, that determination is made once, then blindly adhered to no mattter what.And nowhere in my warranty book does it say I must keep the car in EPC compliance to retain my warranty:)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
IMO enjoy the car and mod it the way that you see fit or leave it alone and just drive it as it came from the factory. If you upgrade the car with performance parts then I don't think you should expect warranty repair if you know that part caused the problem. If there is question on whether aftermarket parts caused the problem I say it should be proven without a reason of doubt to deny the warranty claim.
Yes - I agree. However, if this were 'normal' it is entirely feasible that DCX would get completely bogged down with many challanges and investigations, which would result in lots of unhappy people and a drain on the company budget. That's why they exclude warranty repairs on most mods - because it's much easier to say "mod it and lose the warranty", rather than "mod it and we'll discuss investigate the actual cause of failure if anything goes wrong".

I'm not saying that this is necessarily completely fair, but it is the most logical and easiest way to deal with the aftermarket modding of cars whilst in warranty. The basic premise is that if you mod - there's no warranty, there's no discussion, there's no investigations. Yiu know the score - you take the risk.

I do agree that a mod should be proven to have caused the damage - however, it could be said that the modder should be made to prove that their mod didn't cause the failure - rather than DCX to prove that it did.....
 

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TB? Just for claritys sake, that black box you refer to has nothing to do with this subject. It only records minuts, only in a crash or near crash, and only data that wouldnt show anything like that. Brake pedal position and pressure, steering wheel angle, throttle position, that sort of thing.
I was unsure how much info the black box retains and for how long, but then again do we truly know how much info it is keeping? :ninja: I guess my point is if the car stops running due to a mod then wouldn't the last minutes of data record the status of the car at the time? From what you said though, it looks like it only records the driver's inputs so the mods would not make a difference, correct?
 

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The dealership doesnt have access to that boxes (Its an ABS system box) data anyway. Now, the PCM does record some values, set as high points, from what I've heard, and I know its keeps its own local copy of mileage, but what else it might store, I dont know.
 

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i agree with everyone here and what's being said..... i have mods as listed below, i wouldn't expect dodge to replace my motor if my mods caused the break down. that's an accepted risk i take and i do it because i love my car and i want it to perform at a certain level and be the true muscle car it is. I also have a fear of going to certain dealerships (the one i purchased my Charger from) because I don't know what they are going to say. it's hard to hide a catback exhaust, and quite frankly I'm too lazy to change my cai back to factory, but i wouldn't do that either. it's a mod i put in place, i'm proud of it and i want to show it off. now there is a separate dodge and Chrysler dealer here in Happy valley, and i ran my charger down to the Chrysler dealer one day and have a service guy check something out for me real quick and he commented that i had a nice car, liked the cai and exhaust.

now the dealership i bought the car told me that they would not recommend mods because the service manager wasn't in that day and the guy i talked to wasn't 100% sure what was acceptable (ie. cai, cat-back), but a dealership closer to me says the only mod that they wouldn't like would be the cai, or anything on the intake side of the motor... any exhaust work would be okay for them, whether they install it or not. of course that's going to make me want to go to them now.

another thought, i'm sure the dodge ram guys run into this problem as well, and i really haven't talked to anyone around here about it. i think a majority of hemi rams have cat back exhausts as well, the same goes for diesel rams, and i know a lot of them put bully dog tuners and exhaust on these trucks. i think talking with some of the ram owners would help the charger owners get a feel for what dealerships are okay with mods and how they view the warranty after the mods are done. the hemi rams have been out longer than the hemi charger so....

another note (this i getting long i'm sorry), why hasn't dodge put the 6.1L Hemi into the Dodge Ram? work it up to make it work for the truck, that would eliminate a lot of the competition when it comes to horsepower and torque comparos, also would make the truck go faster (i'm not sure that's really needed, but hey) i know the SRT Ram has the Viper engine, but why not put a 6.1L Hemi into the truck and make it a different trim level or make it an r/t ram or remake the daytona ram/superbee ram and use the 6.1L hemi in that truck? just a thought, sorry for the thread steal
 

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People seem to have forgotten about common sense these days. If you're going to modify your car, then you should anticipate warrantee issues. The only rule I stick to is that I expect my car to be warranteed unless they can prove that the modification I made to the car was the direct cause of the problem. If it is, then my bad. If it's just the dealership being cheap, then I'll go after them.
 

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People seem to have forgotten about common sense these days. If you're going to modify your car, then you should anticipate warrantee issues. The only rule I stick to is that I expect my car to be warranteed unless they can prove that the modification I made to the car was the direct cause of the problem. If it is, then my bad. If it's just the dealership being cheap, then I'll go after them.
x2

i agree whole heartedly, i know the daytona intake is less restrictive as well as the exhaust, so i don't anticipate massive engine failure from a cai and catback (but in the same breath, i know these mods could cause it as well), essentially all that i did was make my base r/t perform more like a daytona with a few extra ponies, but if my mods caused the problem my bad, i'll field the costs, if it wasn't my mod then your bad, admit it and fix it.
 
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