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Discussion Starter #1
From a roll at about 15-20mph she's quick, but off the line - dog. Why? I turned of the EPS and no difference. Only has 200 miles on it so far, but almost seems like it has a slight hesitation.

Anyone?

If I don't find a decent workaround, it's getting a 75 shot nitrous system added on very soon . . . :D
 

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Have you bothered to search the forums here, or at www.lxforums.com, or www.300cforums.com? These cars have 9 (i think) computers in them, and some of them learn too, and a couple of examples of those learning computers is the throttle position computer, and the computer for the tranny. This car WILL adapt itself to the way YOU drive, but it takes more than 200 miles on the odometer for this to happen. There are ways to get around this and they will be easy found in the knowledge base of lxforums.com. Also there are TSB's out for some things like this, but seeing as how the Chargers are the newest of the LX line I would figure they would include most of these already.

here is a link to the throttle calibration thread on lxforums

http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=11325]

i suggest you read as it may help with your situation... but for the love of Christ at least wait until your engine is broken in before you add nitrous to it!

I hope this helps
George
 

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Re: Daytona pig off the line - why & any workarounds?

I have never noticed a difference before and after the throttle calibration. I drive with my foot on the floor in first gear ever chance I get. So, may be it stays calibrated for this.
As far as it being a dog of the line there are several reasons.
-it weighs 4200lbs,
-the low end torque appears to be limited by the stock tuning
-28" tall tires can't help
-a tight torque converter

Gears would help. Stock rear gears are 2.82, but with a 3.56 first gear ratio this is not as bad as it sounds. The 3.08 SRT gears would make a noticeable difference. If any other gears came out I think a 3.43 gear would be great.

I don?t know what a programmer will be able to do but under 3000rpm the car appears to be running too lean for max power.
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Club Royal Condos Pattaya
 

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Take about 1000 pounds of weigh off the car and it would turn into a beast. At 4000 pounds it is a pig coming out of the hole.
 

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Don't forget about the dreaded "torque management" system...

I really don't worry about the off the line perfomance too much. It's a 4000+ lb car, loaded with luxury and refinement that still whoops most off the light, so I'm happy :D

But if I really wanted to kill people outta the hole, I wouldn't choose the Charger ;)
 

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The engine makes 390 lb/ft of torque and first gear is a 3.54 ratio, it should be a monster off the line. Blame the computers.
 

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I read somewhere of a 'reset' function, maybe in the link posted above?? Anyway, while the car is "off" and with the key "on", press the accellerator to the floor for just a second and let off... Then wait a few seconds and start the car. Supposedly this resets the computers "learning" system to "this guy drives like a bat outta hell mode"... ???? Haven't tried it, cause my system has learned that I drive just like that... Therefore, I am always prowling around looking for ricers and stangs to knock off...
 

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Take about 1000 pounds of weigh off the car and it would turn into a beast. At 4000 pounds it is a pig coming out of the hole.
Every 10 lbs reduced = 1 WHP!

:)
 

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Most likely the combo of a heavy car, tight converter and mild timing curve...hot humid weather also KILLS the low end power of a big engine. The low first gear gives the same overall ratio as an old torque-flite with a 3.91 rear so gearing is not the issue. A chip and good good gas could work wonders for the timing.
 

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The heat KILLS!! :mad:

I used to put ICE into my airbox until I made a CAI!

I don`t even bother going to the track here in Arizona until mid October.

I have found the heat and humidity adds .4-.7 to your 1/4 mile times!!!!
 

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Torque Management is killer. I had a 2001 Trans Am and tuned it with LS1 edit. Took off the Torque Management complety and instantly gainted .2-.3 off my 1/4 mile and .1 off my 60' times.

I hope we'll be able to do full tuneing with these cars eventually. So we can adjust shift firmness, A/F ratio's, and take off Torque Management.
 

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Re: Daytona pig off the line - why & any workarounds?

I thought torque management only applied to when the transmission is getting ready to shift.
It was not clear in the service manual but the TCM request the PCM to reduce torque when it's about to shift. The manual did not say this was the only application of torque management.
I just assumed that the lean condition at low rpm was solely responsible for the bottom end sluggishness of the engine. You could be right; the lean condition may be due to a request from the TCM. This may be the same tuning adjustments made when shifting.

So disabling the TCM?s request for torque reduction may have a larger impact on launch than in shift firmness. Interesting!
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maneval69 said:
I just assumed that the lean condition at low rpm was solely responsible for the bottom end sluggishness of the engine.
Lean makes more power than rich. Most modern cars run rich - the extra, unburned fuel is used to cool the catalytic converters.
 

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maneval69 said:
I thought torque management only applied to when the transmission is getting ready to shift.
It was not clear in the service manual but the TCM request the PCM to reduce torque when it's about to shift. The manual did not say this was the only application of torque management.
I just assumed that the lean condition at low rpm was solely responsible for the bottom end sluggishness of the engine. You could be right; the lean condition may be due to a request from the TCM. This may be the same tuning adjustments made when shifting.

So disabling the TCM’s request for torque reduction may have a larger impact on launch than in shift firmness. Interesting!

now seeing as how some are saying that until about 15-20mph the car is sluggish, but after that it takes off... seems like the TQ MGMT system is the same as chevy uses...

basically they retard the timing of the engine to reduce power until the vehicle is going 20mph, once that speed is attained, the timing returns to normal....

Chevy did this on thier trucks to protect the drivetrain, as the parts they use are not up to par for the power the engine is capable of producing, and the loads that they will see
 

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Re: Daytona pig off the line - why & any workarounds?

Dutch said:
Lean makes more power than rich. Most modern cars run rich - the extra, unburned fuel is used to cool the catalytic converters.
Not really,
12.5:1 too 13.5:1 is the best for power any over or under and you loss power.
14.7:1 is optimum for fuel burn and emissions but not for power.
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It takes miles!! I drove a 300C before ordering my Daytona, the C had 13,XXX miles in it. Then I drove a new R/T with only 300 or so miles on it. The R/T felt like it had 1/2 the HP. The manager that has been there for 4 1/2 years told me EVEN before I drove the R/T that it would feel different, he told me this engine takes a long time to brake in, therefore the more miles you put on the car, the better it will perform. Run it now in a 1/4 and save your slip, then try it again when she has around 10K on her, with the same type of day, (temp-humidity etc...) and you will be surprised. Honestly, if I would have driven the R/T first, and never drove the C with some miles, I would have never ordered my Daytona.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I understand, but that's a hellova lot of miles to have to put on it before you start seeing the performance it ought to have within about 3000. My computer controlled LS1 motor in my '98 T/A was good to go at about 5k.

I'm not waiting a year or more for the motor to come around to where it should be. If that is the case, it's getting a CAI, the Comp Cams head/cam kit and the exhaust reworked with shortys or long tubes (preferably the LT's) and a straight thru exhaust without cats. I'll mess around testing out some cat simulator bungs to make it so it doesn't throw codes like the one's I used on the T/A, might even be the same ones.

Since the car can't go on a diet, it'll get some more ponies under the hood. Can't wait til someone comes out with a programmer or editting software to be able to disable things and get rid of some of the hinderances to the true power lurking under the hood.

Not unhappy with the car, it's an awesome head turner - just wish it had the HP to back up the looks. Mine will eventually.
 

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I agree, I wish the would have bumped it to 400 HP or so, especially on the Daytona.
 

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You greedy people...lol. Even at the ripe old age of 30, I can remember when 180hp was a lot. That wasn't enough, so next thing you know you see all kinds of cars with 220 to 250hp. That only helped for a few years, and next thing you know, 300hp isn't even something to blink an eye at. People need to remember, it wasn't terribly long ago that 300hp was something you would only find in a Trans Am or a Camaro SS unless you went to the higher priced sports cars. You guys have 340hp in a family car!!...lol. When you think it's slow sometime, look back in your mirror at everybody else behind you, and realize you are driving around in a 340hp family sedan that hauls ass pretty darn well...lol. I suppose that's how it goes though, no matter how much hp are in them, we will always want more. Hence the reason why SRT exists :)
 

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Big Country said:
You greedy people...lol. Even at the ripe old age of 30, I can remember when 180hp was a lot. That wasn't enough, so next thing you know you see all kinds of cars with 220 to 250hp. That only helped for a few years, and next thing you know, 300hp isn't even something to blink an eye at. People need to remember, it wasn't terribly long ago that 300hp was something you would only find in a Trans Am or a Camaro SS unless you went to the higher priced sports cars. You guys have 340hp in a family car!!...lol. When you think it's slow sometime, look back in your mirror at everybody else behind you, and realize you are driving around in a 340hp family sedan that hauls ass pretty darn well...lol.
This is exactly how I feel. People just look at numbers and don't put things in an everyday perspective. The R/T hauls serious azz on the commute :D

On the side track, I remember when the LT1 Corvette debuted in '92 with 300hp. That was incredible :eek: Now my daily driver has 340 :rockon: (My L98 Vette is just hanging on by weight advantage. It's got nothing on cars today for hp....)
 
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