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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
... well these two videos will answer that question in detail! I explain why you should or should not worry about doing so.

One thing that I did in these videos was use a super abrasive polish by Meguiar's to do this demonstration (Meguiar's Diamond Cut). I did this because I wanted to use something extremely abrasive in this demo. There are those of you who will think that this polish being more abrasive will cut your work in half and want to go get a bottle instead of staying with a much safer alternative. Let me assure you that this is not a smart route to go because of the type of damage this stuff can do to your paint. You will eliminate one issue and be staring at a totally different type of damage that will require some know-how in order to remedy. Don't make that mistake. Stick with a more manageable polish.

With that said, here are the videos!






That's all folks!

The Junkman
 

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mine shipped today... looking forward to using it for my winter detail in October:bigthumb:
 

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I know you can't burn the paint with it, but how easy is it to put more swirls in? What would someone have to do to have that happen?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I know you can't burn the paint with it, but how easy is it to put more swirls in? What would someone have to do to have that happen?
To add swirls to the paint, you have to buff the polish that you have put on the pad too long. You buff polish until it has almost totally broken down and then you stop, wipe the area clear of polish and inspect your work. If you need to continue working an area, then you do so. If not, you move to another spot, add some polish and continue.

Even if you do create swirls, they can be easily removed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Bump for the "scared of a polisher" noobs.
 

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Hey Junkman,

How would you compare the new PC to the old 7424? I've gotten to the point with my original 7424 that I want something that works a little more quickly and doesn't require quite as much elbow grease. Was looking into the Flex 3401VR. Any opinions on it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hey Junkman,

How would you compare the new PC to the old 7424? I've gotten to the point with my original 7424 that I want something that works a little more quickly and doesn't require quite as much elbow grease. Was looking into the Flex 3401VR. Any opinions on it?
You will notice NO performance difference between the PC-7424 and the 7424XP. Don't waste your money.

As for the Flex, it's a totally different animal. It can remove paint off the edges and burn paint if used incorrectly with an aggressive enough compound. It will also fatigue you a LOT faster than the PC ever could because you have to hold on to it. It will try to throw you across the car when you go over a hump in a panel.

With that said, it's a beast compared to the PC.
 

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You will notice NO performance difference between the PC-7424 and the 7424XP. Don't waste your money.

As for the Flex, it's a totally different animal. It can remove paint off the edges and burn paint if used incorrectly with an aggressive enough compound. It will also fatigue you a LOT faster than the PC ever could because you have to hold on to it. It will try to throw you across the car when you go over a hump in a panel.

With that said, it's a beast compared to the PC.
Cool. Sounds like what the doctor ordered. I'll be careful vis-a-vis lingering too long and burning paint.

BTW, it's been a long while since I checked in. Great series of videos you've got there. Nice work!

Best,
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Cool. Sounds like what the doctor ordered. I'll be careful vis-a-vis lingering too long and burning paint.

BTW, it's been a long while since I checked in. Great series of videos you've got there. Nice work!

Best,
Stick around. I have a new series of videos planned.
 

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The Flex is more powerful and you do have to pay attention unlike a PC. The key is just guiding it with correct body position and arm position. The Flex is heavier but I think smoother. On horizontal surfaces, it is easy but you cannot extend it away from your body like the PC nor fall asleep. On vertical surfaces, the weight difference is a factor. The biggest downside to the Flex is that it requires 6.5-in or larger pads unless you are like a few that trim the Flex backing plate down to use 5.-in pads or risk having the backing plate the same diameter as the pads. With a flex you can use a larger working area plus you get slightly more correction from the same combo pad/polish. There is less worry about pressure -- just hold it flat against the paint - it does not slow down much.

Some say the Griot's DA unit has about the same power as the Flex at a near PC price but I have not used one personally. I have seen several in person demos and looks interesting. The Flex will get a lot more attention when Adam's starts selling it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The Flex is more powerful and you do have to pay attention unlike a PC. The key is just guiding it with correct body position and arm position. The Flex is heavier but I think smoother. On horizontal surfaces, it is easy but you cannot extend it away from your body like the PC nor fall asleep. On vertical surfaces, the weight difference is a factor. The biggest downside to the Flex is that it requires 6.5-in or larger pads unless you are like a few that trim the Flex backing plate down to use 5.-in pads or risk having the backing plate the same diameter as the pads. With a flex you can use a larger working area plus you get slightly more correction from the same combo pad/polish. There is less worry about pressure -- just hold it flat against the paint - it does not slow down much.

Some say the Griot's DA unit has about the same power as the Flex at a near PC price but I have not used one personally. I have seen several in person demos and looks interesting. The Flex will get a lot more attention when Adam's starts selling it.
The Flex has a 5.5" back plate to which the 5.5" Lake Country pads fit perfectly. You are NOT limited to the 6.5" pad sizes. A quality detailer will have no problem using those 5.5" pads and will NOT have to cut the back plate up (that would really be a serious brain fart of a move).

As for the Griot's machine, it cannot hold a candle to the Flex. The Griot's machine is nothing more than a rebadged PC. The Griots machine and the Flex are as different as oil and water when it comes to performance. Oh, and Adam's does sell the Flex.
 

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I think you will find many experienced detailers will disagree on your assessment of the PC vs XP and the Griot unit.

Here are a couple pics of the Flex in action by supposedly good detailers posted on Adam's web site.



 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Bunky, if you know how to look up the specs of each unit, you will drop the subject immediately. The numbers don't lie. Now show me anywhere in the world where Dylan (pictured) disagrees with me. I know for a fact that you can not produce that information.

As for your pictures of Dylan using a Flex, what does that have to do with any part of this discussion? It's just a picture of Dylan using a Flex! Woopie! Here's a picture and a video of me using a Flex, and I was using a Lake Country pad along with ZPC. What does that have to do with anything we are discussing here? Absolutely nothing. It just proves that I have used a Flex with a Lake Country pad and Zaino's ZPC.



 

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Bunky, if you know how to look up the specs of each unit, you will drop the subject immediately. The numbers don't lie. Now show me anywhere in the world where Dylan (pictured) disagrees with me. I know for a fact that you can not produce that information.
7424........ 2500-6000 rpm's... 4.0 amps... 5-3/4 lbs
7424-XP... 2500-6800 rpm's... 4.5 amps... 5-3/4 lbs
Griot........ 2500-6800 rpm's... 7.0 amps... 6.1 lbs

A quote from Mike Phillips formerly at Meguiars now at Autogeek.

"Out of the 3 polishers tested, the G110, the PC 7424XP and the Griot's ROP
the Griot's easily had the most power and speed with light pressure and with firm pressure, followed by the PC 7424XP, followed by the G110"

Everyone can have a different opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Stay on topic Bunky. You said, and I quote:

Some say the Griot's DA unit has about the same power as the Flex at a near PC price but I have not used one personally.
I told you that the Griot's machine is no where near the machine the Flex is. Thus, you post the spec's of the three "PC like" machines, which doesn't show how any of them compare to the Flex. Allow me to enlighten you.


# · Power input 900 Watts (7.5 amps)
# · Power output 590 Watts
# · Rotary RPM: 160-480
# · Orbital OPM: 3200-9600
# · Orbit (stroke length): 8mm
# · Velcro back plate (included)
# · Weight 5.75 lbs


Griot's machine, as per your findings:

Griot........ 2500-6800 rpm's... 7.0 amps... 6.1 lbs (should say OPM's)

First of all, you copied your data wrong. The Griot's machine is NOT rated in RPM's, it's rated in OPM (oscillations per minute) so you need to go study up on that aspect of that polisher.

Now looking at the specs in bold, show me where these 2 machine are remotely close to each other in performance. The Flex cannot even go as slow as the Griot's machine. Plus, the Griot's machine has no recognized rotation because it isn't a forced rotation machine. These machines are two, totally different animals. You admittedly have never used one. I not only have one, but have used it extensively.

I would leave this alone if I were you.
 

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I would leave this alone if I were you.
I am just reminding you (and others) that other respected detailers disagree with your statement that they are all perform the same (that is, Griots is not any more powerful).

Had it been more widely reviewed when I was shopping, I would have seriously considered it and still may when my UDM 1.0 croaks.

They all can achieve the same basic results but one machine may do it a little bit faster than others. Some like the Griots power with a lifetime warranty, some prefer the proven Porter Cable.

We have choices and the best advice is to read others opinions since there is conflicting views - some say product A is junk, others will say product A is great. It really is all about what works for the person making the purchase. I recognize that emotional aspects (brand loyalty) play into product purchasing decisions -- that is why they call it marketing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Okay, so we are no longer talking about the Flex?

Well, I am speaking from "hands on" experience and side by side, the difference is so minimal between the XP and the Griot's that it is not worth spending the difference. The numbers that you posted so just how similar they are. The Griot's machine is $129 plus shipping. I've seen the XP for $109 plus $6 for shipping. Not a lot to me but some folks will want to save that $20 -$35, depending on who you order it from.

You can read all the opinions you want on the Internet Bunky but until you get some experience behind the machines, you really don't have an honest clue.
 
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