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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
BMW Group* 24,373 –21.3%
Chrysler Group LLC 93,222 –15.4%
Daimler AG** 18,749 –10.5%
Ford Motor Co.*** 181,826 17.2%
General Motors**** 245,550 –20.1%
Honda (American)† 161,439 9.9%
Hyundai Group†† 100,665 52.1%
Jaguar Land Rover††† 3,160 –4.8%
Maserati 127 –30.2%
Mazda 26,542 12.1%
Mitsubishi 6,813 –25.9%
Nissan‡ 105,312 –2.9%
Porsche 1,526 8.7%
Subaru 28,683 51.5%
Suzuki 5,749 –5.5%
Toyota‡‡ 225,088 6.4%
VW‡‡‡ 32,981 14.2%

TOTAL 1,262,189 1.0%

Tried to find Chrysler's detailed product sales breakdown, but they apparently are not putting out press releases with product sales data :(
 

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BMW Group* 24,373 –21.3%
Chrysler Group LLC 93,222 –15.4%
Daimler AG** 18,749 –10.5%
Ford Motor Co.*** 181,826 17.2%
General Motors**** 245,550 –20.1%
Honda (American)† 161,439 9.9%
Hyundai Group†† 100,665 52.1%
Jaguar Land Rover††† 3,160 –4.8%
Maserati 127 –30.2%
Mazda 26,542 12.1%
Mitsubishi 6,813 –25.9%
Nissan‡ 105,312 –2.9%
Porsche 1,526 8.7%
Subaru 28,683 51.5%
Suzuki 5,749 –5.5%
Toyota‡‡ 225,088 6.4%
VW‡‡‡ 32,981 14.2%

TOTAL 1,262,189 1.0%

Tried to find Chrysler's detailed product sales breakdown, but they apparently are not putting out press releases with product sales data :(
I know that this may not be a popular opinion, but over 62% of all the cash for clunkers federal tax dollars went to foreign car manufacturers.

Great that Ford was up, but GM and Chrysler is down. Toyota got over 19% of all the Cash for Clunkers!

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/toyota-tops-list-of-cash-for-clunkers-winners/

Don't like it.:rolleyes2:

Brian
 

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Here are the detail August sales by model.

http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayR...STORY=/www/story/09-01-2009/0005086454&EDATE=

The 300 had a year-over-year increase of 17%.
The Charger/300/Challenger all had increases compared to July.

The Challenger sales look dismal in my opinion. I would guess the Challenger is going to be discontinued sooner than later. I don't see what value the Challenger is adding. Comparing the Challenger to the Magnum, it just looks like Chrysler swapped one low selling product line for another one.

 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I know that this may not be a popular opinion, but over 62% of all the cash for clunkers federal tax dollars went to foreign car manufacturers.

Great that Ford was up, but GM and Chrysler is down. Toyota got over 19% of all the Cash for Clunkers!

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/toyota-tops-list-of-cash-for-clunkers-winners/

Don't like it.:rolleyes2:

Brian
But, what is a foreign auto maker? Hell, most of the LX's were made in a foreign country, by a foreign automaker (Mercedes owned Chrysler). Substantial portion of Toyota's and Honda's are made in the US. Many of the D3 (Detroit 3) automakers cars are made in Mexico and Canada.
 

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But, what is a foreign auto maker? Hell, most of the LX's were made in a foreign country, by a foreign automaker (Mercedes owned Chrysler). Substantial portion of Toyota's and Honda's are made in the US. Many of the D3 (Detroit 3) automakers cars are made in Mexico and Canada.
Yea, I know what you are saying, it is just that the headquarters are here in the US, and the money generally stays here.

I read once that for every car that a big 3 makes, 6000.00 goes to support others in the industry....glass, plastics, steel, electronic components etc.

For the foreign cars, 600.00 goes to the support industries and the rest goes to Japan, or Korea etc. The Japanese practice Keiretsu (is a set of companies with interlocking business relationships and shareholdings. It is a type of business group that will only buy from one of their member companies .....all Japanese of course!)

If Honda needs a glass manufacturer, they don't go to PPG for the glass, they bring their own glass manufacturer and locate them in Anna to supply glass. If they need a metal stamping company, they don't go to Quality Stamping company here in the US, they get Kukuchi Metal stamping to locate a plant close to Anna to stamp parts from them. They keep the money in the family, and only use strong farm backs here in the us for the job of assemblage.

That bugs me. Then I see that GM is looking to invest 300 million dollars in plants in China or Vietnam so I guess it is over anyway!:rolleyes2:

Thanks
Brian
BND
 

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Here are the detail August sales by model.
Look at the dropoff on the 300. Wow. They've been selling it for 5.5 years without a re-design. No wonder sales are dismal. Who wants to spend a whack of cash on a car in 2009 that no one can distinguish from the model sold in 2004???

:rolleyes2:

-=FLEX=-
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Look at the dropoff on the 300. Wow. They've been selling it for 5.5 years without a re-design. No wonder sales are dismal. Who wants to spend a whack of cash on a car in 2009 that no one can distinguish from the model sold in 2004???

:rolleyes2:

-=FLEX=-
And the new one is barely a reskinned model. Ford spent 700 million reskinning and some minor upgrades on the windstar and sales tanked. Mgt was actually surprised. I had a Toyota internal report on how they did their mini van redesign. It was a huge contrast in philosophy.

370, how do you explain Chrysler, LX, and Mercedes relationship :)
 

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I find it amazing that GM has the highest volume of vehicles sold, yet they are down 20%
 

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It seems like Americans do not want American vehicles anymore, look at the Firebird( Trans Am/ Formula)now the Challenger?
 

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I find it amazing that GM has the highest volume of vehicles sold, yet they are down 20%
GM sells alot of vehicles; I hate to see Pontiac go. :-(
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It seems like Americans do not want American vehicles anymore, look at the Firebird( Trans Am/ Formula)now the Challenger?
Problem is, in today's economy, people are concerned about reliable economical transportation. While we may enjoy driving and our cars, 99% of the American population doesn't really care. The Camaro/Firebird phenomenon is even more interesting as GM had designed the last generation as a high end luxury car and priced it accordingly. Ford learned from GM's mistake when they redesigned the '05 Mustang and designed it for volume sales allowing for upscale and up-powered options. The D3 have done a poor job with their customers, treating them as a necessary evil, producing crap, because people would buy it anyway. Japanese mfg's made great strides to produce a highly reliable car, that was priced to sell. Hyundai is an amazing story as the Korean mfg produced an absolutely crap car and over a decade produced one of the highest quality cars being produced today. Customers have also demanded safety, and for a long time the belief in the D3 was customers did not want safety features. Ford is beginning to get it, with the Fusion beating Toyota and Honda in reliability and safety features across the entire line.
 

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Problem is, in today's economy, people are concerned about reliable economical transportation. While we may enjoy driving and our cars, 99% of the American population doesn't really care. The Camaro/Firebird phenomenon is even more interesting as GM had designed the last generation as a high end luxury car and priced it accordingly. Ford learned from GM's mistake when they redesigned the '05 Mustang and designed it for volume sales allowing for upscale and up-powered options. The D3 have done a poor job with their customers, treating them as a necessary evil, producing crap, because people would buy it anyway. Japanese mfg's made great strides to produce a highly reliable car, that was priced to sell. Hyundai is an amazing story as the Korean mfg produced an absolutely crap car and over a decade produced one of the highest quality cars being produced today. Customers have also demanded safety, and for a long time the belief in the D3 was customers did not want safety features. Ford is beginning to get it, with the Fusion beating Toyota and Honda in reliability and safety features across the entire line.
I totally agree... and everytime I mention my car breaking down... people I know, say... well, it's american right:slap:
 

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Problem is, in today's economy, people are concerned about reliable economical transportation. While we may enjoy driving and our cars, 99% of the American population doesn't really care. The Camaro/Firebird phenomenon is even more interesting as GM had designed the last generation as a high end luxury car and priced it accordingly. Ford learned from GM's mistake when they redesigned the '05 Mustang and designed it for volume sales allowing for upscale and up-powered options. The D3 have done a poor job with their customers, treating them as a necessary evil, producing crap, because people would buy it anyway. Japanese mfg's made great strides to produce a highly reliable car, that was priced to sell. Hyundai is an amazing story as the Korean mfg produced an absolutely crap car and over a decade produced one of the highest quality cars being produced today. Customers have also demanded safety, and for a long time the belief in the D3 was customers did not want safety features. Ford is beginning to get it, with the Fusion beating Toyota and Honda in reliability and safety features across the entire line.
I guess each has their own story as to why they are where they are (D3). GM was fat, arrogant, and had the most attitude of we can ship anything we make and they will continue to buy it for a very very long time. GM is trying to change now, but product was not #1 in their sights.

Ford realized earlier that quality is important as well as safety and took the steps necessary to change their cars and their message as well. They were the first American car company to contact Toyota and license their hybrid technology for their own use.

Chrysler is a different story. In 1998 Chrysler was the lowest cost producer of automobiles with really very good quality. They had more award winning cars, trucks, and alternatives (PT Cruiser, Prowler and the most popular convertible going). Then Daimler and that rat Robert Eaton decided to allow Chrysler to be purchased and raided for their 9 billion in cash as a rebate for buying the company. From that moment on, Chrysler was used as a life raft for Mercedes. For 9 years, Mercedes mandated their parts......in comes the LX, Pacifica, Crossfire....and charges Chrysler virtual list on all the parts while they demanded Auburn Hills engineer things for Mercedes on CATIA (Computer Aided Three Dimensional Interactive Application). All this engineering was done for free and billed to Chrysler. After they got what they wanted from Chrysler while winnowing all the grain out of it, and realizing that the market had changed and Chrysler was becoming a liability they simply sold their interest to Cerberus.

I find it interesting that after all the liabilities that Mercedes had to fund because of the 9 years, they actually payed Cerberus 600 million dollars to take it from them net.

Cerberus said get ready for the next 100 years, and it didn't make it 100 weeks. Chrysler has really produced some of the wrong products and the wrong time. Then when they got in trouble because of the change in the market, they tried to sell it to anyone who would consider buying it including the Chinese car company Cherry. Chrysler has been used, abused, forgotten and treated like a red headed stepchild and we expect any different from what they make?

The Chrysler of 1998 if left alone and not sold, would IMHO not be in the shape that they are now. The Charger would be really different than the LX platform we have, and maybe even better than it, but who knows.

The foreign car companies make good cars that go a long way as well, I just believe that it is HOW they treat their customers that really makes the most difference. Also the fact that Hyundai makes cars that are high quality and are cheaper is hard to beat!

I once accompanied my father to the Honda dealer for servicing of his 1993 Accord because he needed a ride back home. I as astounded at how well he was treated there. As if he was bringing in not a 14 year old car (at the time) but a brand new Acura. They called him sir, gave him a doughnut and coffee and said they would be right back to him in 2 minutes, and was back in 1.5 minutes or less. This is the main reason I believe that people are buying foreign cars more than American cars.

I take my SRT8 into the dealership, and I feel like a number or a wallet with legs! I literally stand there and watch the technician do their work because if I don't, I will find a dent on my door or grease on my steering wheel, or my car lifted by the pinch welds on the outside of the body etc. I am not knocking the people that work in this industry, but the dealerships I have dealt with in the Cleveland area are not the best. I actually am taking my car to the best of what I can find, and heck, my really good friend is the parts manager there.

Not on a rant, just explaining my views and feelings here.

Thanks for listening.:)

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC
440-821-9040
 

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Let's be fair. It's clearly down to dollar signs. Nobody really cares about the nation-of-manufacture for the products they buy. When you go to buy a cell-phone, you never ask where it's made... you just buy the one that has the features you want at the price you're willing to pay. Price is king and the car companies on the other side of the planet have great prices. Especially in a struggling economy, when people are looking at lower-end cars to start with.
 

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Problem is, in today's economy, people are concerned about reliable economical transportation. While we may enjoy driving and our cars, 99% of the American population doesn't really care. The Camaro/Firebird phenomenon is even more interesting as GM had designed the last generation as a high end luxury car and priced it accordingly. Ford learned from GM's mistake when they redesigned the '05 Mustang and designed it for volume sales allowing for upscale and up-powered options. The D3 have done a poor job with their customers, treating them as a necessary evil, producing crap, because people would buy it anyway. Japanese mfg's made great strides to produce a highly reliable car, that was priced to sell. Hyundai is an amazing story as the Korean mfg produced an absolutely crap car and over a decade produced one of the highest quality cars being produced today. Customers have also demanded safety, and for a long time the belief in the D3 was customers did not want safety features. Ford is beginning to get it, with the Fusion beating Toyota and Honda in reliability and safety features across the entire line.
True, I've noticed the new Camaro has a nice price as well, GM got to ****y(I think) and the market was and is changing so much( SUVS and trucks were fly off the dealership and the MPG was worse than SS or WS6 and that is what I was hearing being said why ppl would not purchae one, but that's what was selling(supposedly more women(Soccer Moms)became buyer of new cars?)

I think the quality now is not that much better/greater than it was in the late 70's to early 90's in favor of the imports. I remember shuting the door of an Acura and being impressed over a Lumina, Impala,Taurus, etc.. in the early 90's but you can see the quality in fit and finish between a Charger and Camry are not as far spread as before. I think the trend is there, like when Americans only bought American which I think is the reason the crap cars of the 80's sold. Imagine growing up and all Dad would buy was Cadillac and you the son/daughter goes and buys an Eldorado with the 4-6-8 system and the dealership service sucks and your not being treat well and you new Caddy is not running or at best is skipping down the road and your next door neighbor with an Import with 180K on it is driving around and using way less fuel. I think this was the start of america changing not to mention the Cimarron and a slew of others.
 

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I guess each has their own story as to why they are where they are (D3). GM was fat, arrogant, and had the most attitude of we can ship anything we make and they will continue to buy it for a very very long time. GM is trying to change now, but product was not #1 in their sights.

Ford realized earlier that quality is important as well as safety and took the steps necessary to change their cars and their message as well. They were the first American car company to contact Toyota and license their hybrid technology for their own use.

Chrysler is a different story. In 1998 Chrysler was the lowest cost producer of automobiles with really very good quality. They had more award winning cars, trucks, and alternatives (PT Cruiser, Prowler and the most popular convertible going). Then Daimler and that rat Robert Eaton decided to allow Chrysler to be purchased and raided for their 9 billion in cash as a rebate for buying the company. From that moment on, Chrysler was used as a life raft for Mercedes. For 9 years, Mercedes mandated their parts......in comes the LX, Pacifica, Crossfire....and charges Chrysler virtual list on all the parts while they demanded Auburn Hills engineer things for Mercedes on CATIA (Computer Aided Three Dimensional Interactive Application). All this engineering was done for free and billed to Chrysler. After they got what they wanted from Chrysler while winnowing all the grain out of it, and realizing that the market had changed and Chrysler was becoming a liability they simply sold their interest to Cerberus.

I find it interesting that after all the liabilities that Mercedes had to fund because of the 9 years, they actually payed Cerberus 600 million dollars to take it from them net.

Cerberus said get ready for the next 100 years, and it didn't make it 100 weeks. Chrysler has really produced some of the wrong products and the wrong time. Then when they got in trouble because of the change in the market, they tried to sell it to anyone who would consider buying it including the Chinese car company Cherry. Chrysler has been used, abused, forgotten and treated like a red headed stepchild and we expect any different from what they make?

The Chrysler of 1998 if left alone and not sold, would IMHO not be in the shape that they are now. The Charger would be really different than the LX platform we have, and maybe even better than it, but who knows.

The foreign car companies make good cars that go a long way as well, I just believe that it is HOW they treat their customers that really makes the most difference. Also the fact that Hyundai makes cars that are high quality and are cheaper is hard to beat!

I once accompanied my father to the Honda dealer for servicing of his 1993 Accord because he needed a ride back home. I as astounded at how well he was treated there. As if he was bringing in not a 14 year old car (at the time) but a brand new Acura. They called him sir, gave him a doughnut and coffee and said they would be right back to him in 2 minutes, and was back in 1.5 minutes or less. This is the main reason I believe that people are buying foreign cars more than American cars.

I take my SRT8 into the dealership, and I feel like a number or a wallet with legs! I literally stand there and watch the technician do their work because if I don't, I will find a dent on my door or grease on my steering wheel, or my car lifted by the pinch welds on the outside of the body etc. I am not knocking the people that work in this industry, but the dealerships I have dealt with in the Cleveland area are not the best. I actually am taking my car to the best of what I can find, and heck, my really good friend is the parts manager there.

Not on a rant, just explaining my views and feelings here.

Thanks for listening.:)

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC
440-821-9040
Brian, I agree with you also, I though Mercedes was going to be a good thing for Chrysler but like you said they used them. And from my experience the Honda, Acura, Lexus, etc dealerships treat you well while the big 3 treat you like a number and have poor service, seems like they don't want to be there and are just waiting for the day to end. Plus the Mechanics seem like a bunch of lowlifes. The Pontiac dealership didn't like me very well because I watched them close also and made sure they put the cover on my seat and I'd say something if the radio was changed or my CD had a greasy thumbprint. I babied my Trans Am's and never was in it dirty so I didn't expect it to come out a mess. And why do you need to mess with my music going 100 feet to service it!?

I worked at a lincoln dealership for around one year and there was only one technician I had touch my cars and i though well of him( his attitude was nice and he knew what he was doing and was actually honest, almost to the point it got him in trouble)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Brian, I agree with you also, I though Mercedes was going to be a good thing for Chrysler but like you said they used them.
Mercedes actually has HORRIBLE quality, but where they excel is at customer service. Customer hears a tic in the engine... replace the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Then Daimler and that rat Robert Eaton decided to allow Chrysler to be purchased and raided for their 9 billion in cash as a rebate for buying the company. From that moment on, Chrysler was used as a life raft for Mercedes. For 9 years, Mercedes mandated their parts......in comes the LX, Pacifica, Crossfire....and charges Chrysler virtual list on all the parts while they demanded Auburn Hills engineer things for Mercedes on CATIA (Computer Aided Three Dimensional Interactive Application). All this engineering was done for free and billed to Chrysler. After they got what they wanted from Chrysler while winnowing all the grain out of it, and realizing that the market had changed and Chrysler was becoming a liability they simply sold their interest to Cerberus.

I find it interesting that after all the liabilities that Mercedes had to fund because of the 9 years, they actually payed Cerberus 600 million dollars to take it from them net.
Chrysler had something like 25 BILLION in the bank when Mercedes bought them, and an overfunded pension plan. Chrysler literally saved Mercedes from bankruptcy. Plus they charged unbelievable annual "management" fees, to the tune of a reported 2.5B. Did not allow them to develop much in the way of new cars. What little was left of Chrysler was stripped away by Cerberus. It's absolutely crazy.
 
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