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Discussion Starter #1
2006 Charger Daytona

The AC works great until the outside temps get over 95F. Once the temp goes above that, the AC will start off cool and then progress to blowing outside air in. The air smells musty, probably because the compressor kicks off and it is blowing outside air. Basically at 6am in the morning I drive to work with cold AC, when I get off at 2pm I drive home with outside air AC, not cold. So if I park the car in the shade (under a tree or a canopy) the ac will blow colder for a longer period of time than if I park it in the sun. This seems to be in conjuction with the temp of the car and the temp of the outside. Somedays I can drive almost home without the compressor cycling off, other days I am slowly melting. But I can enjoy colder air for a longer period of time if the car is parked in the shade. The fan (under the hood) will come on and off with the compressor when the compressor goes on and off.

Morning hours and Night hours the AC works without a flaw, no issues at all. This is a heat of the day, out in the sun issue from what I can tell.

On the computer you can see the compressor turning off/on along with the fan (cycling if you will) when it is doing this.

Things to rule out:

The system has been vacuumed and recharged to all specs. Had a independent do it (same problem) then the dealer did it ... so the charge is not questionable
Dye has been added and we do not have a leak. Checked several times, no leak
High Pressure Switch has been replaced. Still same problem
Dealer is still scratching their head on this one.
TSB is done also. Flashed it twice just to make sure, still same problem

We have had it hooked up to the StarScan and can watch the pressure come on and off - you can hear the fan kick on/off at the same time.
Sometimes the StarScan will show that the AC button on the dash is not pressed, when it is.

The only code I get is p0532 which is low pressure AC line something or other.

Dealer is thinking the upper control module may be the problem. What I am referring to is the silver box mounted to the fusebox under the hood.

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So with the above, what do you think the problem is? Again it works just like it is supposed to except when the outside temps exceed 95 F .... then the AC is on its own program. I will be driving for 20 minutes with warm air blowing out, then the air will begin to cool down again. I have not noticed a pattern to this problem as of yet.
 

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haha, some of that is humerous.
First your dealer is idiotic.
Your compressor should be kicking on and off, it doesnt run non stop. It does this to keep the evap core from freezing up.
Just because they've evaced and recharged absolutely does not rule out charge level.
It only means they couldnt find anything. A evac and recharge never ever fixes an issue and its only done when a dummy cant figure out the issue. Freon does not evaporate or get used. Therefore its either full in the system or its leaked out whether they can find it or not.
There is no code for low pressure line. the system has no way of monitoring anything other than high and low pressure, evap temp, and compressor cylcing. thats all that is monitored. If your throwing a code for low pressure its because you have low pressure. If that sensor had failed your compressor would not turn on. thats the whole purpose of that sensor as low pressure harms a compressor to run so once it gets too low it kills power to the compressor but it can be low enough to set a code and not low enough to turn the compressor off yet. It gets low, only when you have a leak. ITs a sealed system it cant be low any other way.
Now it sounds to me like your low on freon but without hooking up gauges and monitoring the system pressures there is no way to know over the net. We need to know what your low and high side pressure is at idle and clutch on time to diagnose this further.

The reason it works fine in colder temps is because it doesnt have to work as hard. It should be 30-40 degrees cooler than ambiant temp but most cars can get into the upper 40's with outside temps in the upper 90's if they are in good shape. Getting to 40 with 70 degree temps is no biggie compared to doing it when its 100 out.

there is no reason they should have replaced a high pressure switch . I have never in 11 years of wrenching seen one fail. They could have bypassed it and checked they system with it bypassed and they know it they are just lazy.

the "module" your referring to is the fcm. There is no reason to replace it. your compressor is running and that module has nothing to do with the system anyways. Your eatc and your pcm are the only ones that do anything in the system. If the pcm is kicking the compressor then electronics are likely not the cause. Especially since you've said nothing about your blend doors failing or the position of air flow being incorrect.

your either low on freon , due to a leak
you have a restriction in the line
or you have a blend door failing (hot/cold blend door)
 

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FIND THE LEAK.......Period
Wicked, where is the evap core located in these cars? You can shine your UV lamp under the hood all day and not find a sloooow leak in the evap core. Obviously its been recharged twice, so the leak is there. After 25 years in the a/c field I can tell you some leaks are a PITA to find.
 

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evap is behind the dash. costs about 1100 bucks outside of warranty.
 

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Wierd.....i`m in Godawful Beeville texas where it has literally been 100-110 for the past month or so and mine is just as cool as can be
 

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Wierd.....i`m in Godawful Beeville texas where it has literally been 100-110 for the past month or so and mine is just as cool as can be
Well that should make the OP feel good. :biggrinjester::biggrinjester:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
There is no leak, we sucked out just about what we put back in.

Today example .... Left the extra job and had cold air. Arrived at the Dr. Office right down the street and as I turned into the driveway the air went outside temp.

Left the office and headed down the road with outside temp air ...... about 7 minutes later the air went cold again and I made it home with the windows up and cold air.
 

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There is no leak, we sucked out just about what we put back in.

Today example .... Left the extra job and had cold air. Arrived at the Dr. Office right down the street and as I turned into the driveway the air went outside temp.

Left the office and headed down the road with outside temp air ...... about 7 minutes later the air went cold again and I made it home with the windows up and cold air.
It kind of sounds like the evaporator freeze-up issue.

Here is the link to the TSB posted on a similar thread (Thanks xrayi!) http://www.wkjeeps.com/misc/LX/TSB/TSB_2401205a.pdf
 

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It kind of sounds like the evaporator freeze-up issue.

Here is the link to the TSB posted on a similar thread (Thanks xrayi!) http://www.wkjeeps.com/misc/LX/TSB/TSB_2401205a.pdf

if you would have read the thread you would have read that that reflash has already been done and fixed nothing.


There is no leak, we sucked out just about what we put back in.

Today example .... Left the extra job and had cold air. Arrived at the Dr. Office right down the street and as I turned into the driveway the air went outside temp.

Left the office and headed down the road with outside temp air ...... about 7 minutes later the air went cold again and I made it home with the windows up and cold air.
sounds to me like yourhot/cold blend door is binding up or screwing up. The tech should have monitored pids and been able to find that out though. That should have been the first thing he checked with your symptoms.
 

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if you would have read the thread you would have read that that reflash has already been done and fixed nothing.
I did actually read the thread and although the reflash was done twice, it still sounds like the possibility of evaporator freeze-up and I thought I'd provide the link in case the OP hadn't seen it. Your suggestion is along similar lines in that you are suggesting that the air isn't going across the evaporator and into the passenger compartment.

Just trying to help bro'
 

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Another thought...when the air stops blowing cold, is there still condensation water draining out from under the car? Either way, it could be an important clue to the source of the problem.
 

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I did actually read the thread and although the reflash was done twice, it still sounds like the possibility of evaporator freeze-up and I thought I'd provide the link in case the OP hadn't seen it. Your suggestion is along similar lines in that you are suggesting that the air isn't going across the evaporator and into the passenger compartment.

Just trying to help bro'
evap freeze up is monitored and if that was the case it would throw a code
-which was stated there was none of
what i stated was a blend door issue which can happen without throwing a code

The compressor cylces to keep the evap box from freezing and wont allow it to freeze up.

I'm just trying to state that many people are just throwing things out there that have already been debugged as possibilities or are in no way close to the concern. People get confused easy enough
 

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evap freeze up is monitored and if that was the case it would throw a code
-which was stated there was none of
what i stated was a blend door issue which can happen without throwing a code

The compressor cylces to keep the evap box from freezing and wont allow it to freeze up.

I'm just trying to state that many people are just throwing things out there that have already been debugged as possibilities or are in no way close to the concern. People get confused easy enough
Your points are well taken. I had the experience of freeze-up in my 2005 Magnum SXT AWD and it never threw a code and the dealer couldn't figure it out. The only way I figured it out was from the condensation drain stopping flow when it would stop blowing cold air and the intermittent behavior described here is very similar. I respect your expertise in these matters and don't mean to throw out unrealistic ideas without basis.
 

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Like Wicked stated, we can only throw out idea's. It is not always easy to diagnose, theres a reason the service manual has over 300 pages dedicated to just the a/c system.
We have had it hooked up to the StarScan and can watch the pressure come on and off - you can hear the fan kick on/off at the same time.Sometimes the StarScan will show that the AC button on the dash is not pressed, when it is.
The only code I get is p0532 which is low pressure AC line something or other.
I question why the fan is kicking on and off. If they fan is dropping out on its own this will cause a low pressure trip due to lack of airflow across evap. Could blower motor be cycling off on high thermal temps.
 

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I was re-reading the original post when this caught my eye...

2006 Charger Daytona


Sometimes the StarScan will show that the AC button on the dash is not pressed, when it is.
Is it possible that the console button switch has a temperature sensitive intermittent contact such the the light stays on but the "on" circuit to the A/C is broken? Seems easy enough to by-pass the switch and check.

Wicked please chime in if you think this is off-base.
 

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I question why the fan is kicking on and off. If they fan is dropping out on its own this will cause a low pressure trip due to lack of airflow across evap. Could blower motor be cycling off on high thermal temps.
I believe that Boggus is talking about the radiator cooling fans, not the blower motor. Now for more questions.
If you have an EVIC display, what is the engine temperature when the A/C stops working? What does the engine temp get up to? Have you verified that BOTH cooling fans are turning and engage on low and high speeds? I'm thinking that if the radiator fans are not up to snuff, the condensor will be running too hot causing the high side pressure to max out and shut the compressor off. With low ambient temps in the morning, cooling the condensor is easier than when outside temps get to the 90's. Is the problem worse in stop-n-go traffic? Does it work better on the highway at a constant speed?
 

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ddaddy, dont take crap to heart. i wasnt trying to pick on you or nothing :bigthumb:
I was just stating that there is a lack of information about the car and everyone is throwing things out there and its probably all going to hell now , thats all. 50 opinions on something we dont really have all the info on

o.p. you are talking about the a/c fan outside , not the blower motor right?

Does your hvac panel illuminate in all sections when you turn the lights on?

Does your heater work? If the hot cold door is broken you'll get a mix of both but not an extreme hot or cold. check this when its acting up, not when its working

Yes its possible there is a short in the hvac module (eatc) that is shorting to power the indicator but intermittently probably not, thats kinda odd.

If the compressor and the outside a/c fan are both turning off when the problem happens we may have a intermittent issue with one of two things

a/ the pcm could be seeing a inaccurate wot (remember the pcm kills the compressor and some loads under wide open throttle
b/ the hvac(eatc) might be losing power intermittently :confused: weird but possible

I'd really like to know whats on and off when the problem fails and i wish we knew the system pressures.
Like said if the fan is going off up under the hood then the condensor becomes less effective and the compressor will cycle off more.

Sure would be nice if you had a starscan
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Ok to offer up a suggestion, as I appreciate the input. The reason the TECH has not gotten more into this is because I use the car everyday (work many extra jobs in it) and have not had the opportunity to take it in and leave it. This will happen Monday after I get off duty, I will drop the car off at the dealer.

Example: Left extra job yesterday and headed to the Dr. Office. It is approx. 7 miles from my extra job. As I drove in the driveway of the Dr. Office, the air compressor kicked off (outside air, kinda musty) was coming from the vents.

After Dr. Appointment took approx. 30 minutes I returned to the car and still had warm air blowing. I continued towards the freeway and as I was approaching the freeway the air became cool again. Once I got on the freeway I had cool/cold air most of the of my travel which was approx. 35 minutes.

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When I park in the shade or under a cover, garage, etc. The car AC seems to work longer than if I leave the car in the hot sun. It appears that outside temps are playing a role in my issue. If the outside temp gauge on the cluster reads over 93 or so degrees it becomes hit or miss if the ac works.

However, it does seem to work better when driving as opposed to sitting.

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When the dealer recharged the AC (was not low but needed a good starting point) the car was cold. Dealer pulled the car outside and left it running. It was cold. I did the paperwork with the cashier and went back out to the car. The car was not blowing warm outside temp air. Tech plugged in the machine, logged into it via his laptop and we watched. At one point the AC button appeared to not be on when it was. Other times the computer would show pressure but then would go to 0 then back to say 180 then back to 0 and so forth. When it did this the compressor would kick on with the fan at the same time then click off together. Tech then stated he needed the car so start digging more into it....I had to be somewhere and left to return another day.

So, I trust the Tech on this and it is just for the fact I was not able to leave the car that he can't fully diagnose it - the High Pressure Switch was a possible solution via the fix on the code P0532 - Something with AC circuit A low blah blah. This was not the solution and it will go in on Monday for a better fix. Hopefully. They think it is a control module issue with a bad ground the way it is behaving.

Today on the way home it goes from outside air to cold air and cycles the entire way home. Again at startup it works until the car gets up to temp, then we start cycling it seems.

I am leaning more towards the fan issue (fan as in the radiator and not the blower) as the ac tends to work more (not 100%) when I am driving, atleast it goes on and off.

The only gauge I have is a low pressure one...if you need the lbs then I can check it when it goes on/off if need be. As for temp of the car, everything seems to be ok. The temp gauge never gets over 1/2 up at about 186 degrees.

** Now in the morning (5am) and in the late evenings (past 6pm) I usually do not have any issues, this seems to be a heat of the day isue **
 

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Discussion Starter #20
ddaddy, dont take crap to heart. i wasnt trying to pick on you or nothing :bigthumb:
I was just stating that there is a lack of information about the car and everyone is throwing things out there and its probably all going to hell now , thats all. 50 opinions on something we dont really have all the info on

o.p. you are talking about the a/c fan outside , not the blower motor right? A/C Fan outside, not blower)

Does your hvac panel illuminate in all sections when you turn the lights on? YES

Does your heater work? If the hot cold door is broken you'll get a mix of both but not an extreme hot or cold. check this when its acting up, not when its working. Heater is working

Yes its possible there is a short in the hvac module (eatc) that is shorting to power the indicator but intermittently probably not, thats kinda odd. Have heard it may be the control panel

If the compressor and the outside a/c fan are both turning off when the problem happens we may have a intermittent issue with one of two things

a/ the pcm could be seeing a inaccurate wot (remember the pcm kills the compressor and some loads under wide open throttle
b/ the hvac(eatc) might be losing power intermittently :confused: weird but possible Dealer thinks the module mounted to the fuse box may have a ground issue causing this intermittent issue

I'd really like to know whats on and off when the problem fails and i wish we knew the system pressures.
Like said if the fan is going off up under the hood then the condensor becomes less effective and the compressor will cycle off more. Can any of this be viewed using PIDS on the Predator?

Sure would be nice if you had a starscan
You and I both, then I could have all kinds of fun
 
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