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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
While most of the fluid we make is still for the 42RLE 4 speed and the NAG1 W5A580 5 speed, we also do make the new ZF 8 speed QuantumBlue fluid replacement as well.

We recently replaced the 10 quarts of fluid and provided the pan filter assembly along with the appropriate bolts to one of our customers Shawn who has a 2012 Dodge Charger with almost 90k miles on it. We suggested to replace the fluid and pan filter assembly and decided to take pictures this time for the forum reference. Remember that on the ZF 8 speed transmissions, the pan/filter assembly is removed from the vehicle and thrown away. The filter is integral with the pan!

I thought it would be a good thing to show people what these look like if you haven't seen them yet! Remember that these units and fluids are in the new Audi and BMW vehicles as well. We provide a much better ZF Lifeguard Replacement fluid for BMW. The want $98.30 for the Lifeguard Fluid in the BMW and Audi!!! We can do it for $14.95 per quart. Best Replacement fluid for the Lifeguard fluid from BMW and Audi! We get calls from them as well!


10 Quarts of trans fluid for the flush:


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External of the pan/filter assembly with bolts also known as a Filtran:






Hex key drain plug:



The internals are as such:



Cap with O-ring affixed from the factory:



Inside the drain:


Due to the fact that it is a polymer pan it contains affixed magnets to catch ferrous wear metals:





The cost of our QuantumBlue Custom Blended 8 speed transmission fluid and the pan/filter assembly is $278.20 for the 845RE. The fluid is $14.95 per quart in 1 gallon increments.

The 8HP45 is 282.60. They are different pans but the same fluid so that makes the difference there.

Typical from the dealer is between $35.20 and $43.95 per quart and $210.00 for the pan on the 8HP45.;)

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
$43.50 per quart? That's insane!
Sorry, it is actually $43.95 per quart......typo.

We do it for $14.95 per quart. Exceeds the factory spec and we add more high heat compounds to the formulate and do it for less!

But yea, unbelieveable!! Audi uses virtually the same fluid in the 6 speed and 8 speed ZF transmissions and it is $45.85 per quart. We do the fluid for less than that for them also. Really any ZF trans we can make fluids for.:rocker:

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 

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Excellent thread 370 HEMI!

One question I do have, is what is the actual procedure for changing the fluid? Drop & replace the pan /filter assembly...how do we get the new fluid back in the 8 speed auto? I have not seen any type of filler tube / dipstick etc.

Is 10 quarts a 'complete' fluid change or only a partial?

Also, I'm not exactly sure based on the picks you posted...what is the actual mopar part # that one needs to give to order the pan / filter assembly?

Looking forward to your answers & very interested in getting some of this fluid off you.

:beerchug:
 

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Both of these meet the ZF 8 speed fluid spec for a fraction of the price.... Not trying to start a debate Brian, I just don't understand why Amsoil can make a fluid that exceeds OEM spec for this much, when nobody else can?
OEM's go to great length to strike a balance between performance and cost.

One thing that can be missing from the after market products, is the additives. Here's the difficult balance, transmission fluid must simultaneously cool, lube, and still allow friction. Surprisingly, contained moisture is incredibly hard on transmissions, and even the friction plates can absorb ambient moisture, leading to shifting problems.
 

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OEM's go to great length to strike a balance between performance and cost.

One thing that can be missing from the after market products, is the additives. Here's the difficult balance, transmission fluid must simultaneously cool, lube, and still allow friction. Surprisingly, contained moisture is incredibly hard on transmissions, and even the friction plates can absorb ambient moisture, leading to shifting problems.
The fluid has to meet a certain specification, consisting of X concentration of this additive, and Y amount of this, etc. if it meets and exceeds that specification that Chysler deems is good for this transmission, I fail to see your point. Not trying to be rude. I just don't quite understand how $40+ per quart of transmission fluid is realistic in any way.
 

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The cost of our QuantumBlue Custom Blended 8 speed transmission fluid and the pan/filter assembly is $543.34.

Typical from the dealer is $43.95 per quart and $180.00 for the pan on the 8HP45.;)
$43.50 per quart? That's insane!
I was quoted north of that amount when I made an inquired about the transmission service for the 8-speed.

So much so that the service rep advised me not to touch it until I reach 100,000 kms.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Excellent thread 370 HEMI!

One question I do have, is what is the actual procedure for changing the fluid? Drop & replace the pan /filter assembly...how do we get the new fluid back in the 8 speed auto? I have not seen any type of filler tube / dipstick etc.

Here is the procedure that we provide with the transmission pan and oil when it is changed.




This will explain everything you need to know about this procedure.

Is 10 quarts a 'complete' fluid change or only a partial?

10 quarts (9.46 L) takes care of all the fluid in the trans. Some people with over 100,000 miles have found that replacing 6 liters then driving for 5,000 miles and then taking out 3.65 quarts out and adding the last 3.65 quarts will completely flush the torque converter and then you are good for another 50k miles anyway.

Also, I'm not exactly sure based on the picks you posted...what is the actual mopar part # that one needs to give to order the pan / filter assembly?

Because we buy so many of these pans at one time, we get a special price on them much below what you can purchase them for at a dealership. For the 2012, the pan number is Mopar P/N 68157995AA with the 13 and up is P/N 68142478AB. Let me know what you need and we can get this taken care of for you.

Looking forward to your answers & very interested in getting some of this fluid off you.

:beerchug:
The fluid we make exceeds the ZF Lifeguard fluid for all the ZF transmissions. We don't skimp on what is in there like the aftermarket brands do. You don't want a functional equivalent on this trans!!!!

Don't be fooled with the cheaper brands. You will be left buying a transmission if it is the wrong fluid! We make a QuantumBlue Custom Blended Fluid that is better than ZF but keeps your factory warranty in place!!

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 

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I was quoted north of that amount when I made an inquired about the transmission service for the 8-speed.

So much so that the service rep advised me not to touch it until I reach 100,000 kms.
The service adviser I deal with at my selling dealer said the same thing.

Interestingly enough however, labor for the complete tranny flush is only an hour... :nerd2:
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
The service adviser I deal with at my selling dealer said the same thing.

Interestingly enough however, labor for the complete tranny flush is only an hour... :nerd2:
ZF recommends every 50,000 to 75,000 miles it should be changed. ZF has never been known for good trans fluid blends! I would even suggest that this is too high based on what I have seen when taking those pans down and what is in the magnets!!

The C5 Audi RS6 uses the ZF 5HP24A 5 speed trans and has problems with internals all the time with bump stop, shuddering and hesitation between shifts.

I was asked to look at this issue from their president of the club. I got a sample of the fluid from Audi....19.99 per quart....and was appalled at how cheap and inferior it was. typical store bought ATF+4 out of the bottle is way superior to what ZF provides! I spent about a month working out the details of how the ZF 5 speed worked and what the clutch material was all about before I put together a better version. What I make for that trans completely solved the issues with that 5 speed. We do those transmissions all the time with our QuantumBlue Custom Blend.

Anyway, the 8 speed transmission from ZF has a trans fluid that really isn't much better than the one produced for the Audi C5 RS6.

Audi part number for the C5 is G052-162-A2 trans fluid
Audi part number for the 6 and 8 speed trans is G060-162-A2.

The G060 fluid is 45.95 per quart. It is the SAME fluid as what goes into the Chrysler 8 speed transmissions!

This is why I took on the task of improving the fluid so that the C5 RS6 and the ZF 8 speed transmissions would run better, cooler and smoother while being better protected than what comes from ZF of Germany.

The Audi A6 with the 6 speed transmissions also use the same fluids. I just recently did a 2006 version of this transmission and it too use the same ZF Lifeguard fluid. I replaced this fluid with our version and the customer can't be happier with it. He was very surprised as to what came out of it at 105,000 miles. He will never go that long again after we showed him the difference. Audi uses the lifetime fluid BS with them over there too! ;)


Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 

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ZF recommends every 50,000 to 75,000 miles it should be changed. ZF has never been known for good trans fluid blends! I would even suggest that this is too high based on what I have seen when taking those pans down and what is in the magnets!!

The C5 Audi RS6 uses the ZF 5HP24A 5 speed trans and has problems with internals all the time with bump stop, shuddering and hesitation between shifts.

I was asked to look at this issue from their president of the club. I got a sample of the fluid from Audi....19.99 per quart....and was appalled at how cheap and inferior it was. typical store bought ATF+4 out of the bottle is way superior to what ZF provides! I spent about a month working out the details of how the ZF 5 speed worked and what the clutch material was all about before I put together a better version. What I make for that trans completely solved the issues with that 5 speed. We do those transmissions all the time with our QuantumBlue Custom Blend.

Anyway, the 8 speed transmission from ZF has a trans fluid that really isn't much better than the one produced for the Audi C5 RS6.

Audi part number for the C5 is G052-162-A2 trans fluid
Audi part number for the 6 and 8 speed trans is G060-162-A2.

The G060 fluid is 45.95 per quart. It is the SAME fluid as what goes into the Chrysler 8 speed transmissions!

This is why I took on the task of improving the fluid so that the C5 RS6 and the ZF 8 speed transmissions would run better, cooler and smoother while being better protected than what comes from ZF of Germany.

The Audi A6 with the 6 speed transmissions also use the same fluids. I just recently did a 2006 version of this transmission and it too use the same ZF Lifeguard fluid. I replaced this fluid with our version and the customer can't be happier with it. He was very surprised as to what came out of it at 105,000 miles. He will never go that long again after we showed him the difference. Audi uses the lifetime fluid BS with them over there too! ;)


Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
Very interesting findings Brian!

Do you actually change the fluids that you blend as well or what do you recommend to your customers for the fluid change? IE: just take it to the dealer etc?

Have you tested your custom blend of fluid with other brands other than the factory ZF? for example; Amsoil's 'Signature series fuel efficient ATF' Which meets (if not exceeds) ZF specifications Shell L12108 Transmission Fluid or equivalent?

You might find this study from April 2014 interesting...
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3118.pdf

:beerchug:
 

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Very interesting findings Brian!

Do you actually change the fluids that you blend as well or what do you recommend to your customers for the fluid change? IE: just take it to the dealer etc?

Have you tested your custom blend of fluid with other brands other than the factory ZF? for example; Amsoil's 'Signature series fuel efficient ATF' Which meets (if not exceeds) ZF specifications Shell L12108 Transmission Fluid or equivalent?

You might find this study from April 2014 interesting...
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3118.pdf

:beerchug:
Yes! Another Amsoil supporter! When I mentioned and posted up Amsoil's OE and Signature Series fluids that meet the spec for the ZF trans eadlier, I pretty much got ignored. I couldn't find the most recent Taxi-cab field study. Personally I've used Amsoil Signature Series before and I will continue to use it. It meets/exceeds the specs of these overpriced fluids like the stuff ZF uses.
 

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Yes! Another Amsoil supporter! When I mentioned and posted up Amsoil's OE and Signature Series fluids that meet the spec for the ZF trans eadlier, I pretty much got ignored. I couldn't find the most recent Taxi-cab field study. Personally I've used Amsoil Signature Series before and I will continue to use it. It meets/exceeds the specs of these overpriced fluids like the stuff ZF uses.
I have been a loyal Amsoil user since 2000 RT....everything for my vehicles, to my Kawasaki Jet ski & even my Honda lawn mower.

One thing I would like to see is how Amsoil Signature Series Fuel Efficient ATF compares against the custom made Quantum Blue ZF ATF. I only want to put in the best fluids for my vehicles....why not compare the two?

:beerchug:
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Very interesting findings Brian!

Do you actually change the fluids that you blend as well or what do you recommend to your customers for the fluid change? IE: just take it to the dealer etc?

Have you tested your custom blend of fluid with other brands other than the factory ZF? for example; Amsoil's 'Signature series fuel efficient ATF' Which meets (if not exceeds) ZF specifications Shell L12108 Transmission Fluid or equivalent?

You might find this study from April 2014 interesting...
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3118.pdf

:beerchug:
The study you quoted here is for the Multi-Vehicle ATF that Amsoil makes. That is an ATF+4 fluid and NOT a ZF 8 speed Lifeguard transmission fluid!

Here are some pictures of a NAG1 running 11.40s in the quarter at 118 mph running QuantumBlue ATF+4++IIA for 35,000 miles of drag racing not just driving with a 5.7L Hemi Procharged.









The builder said he never saw a NAG1 this clean ever and everything was like brand new! $12.76 per quart for custom blending not just something off the shelf! However, it is not the same fluid as the ZF Lifeguard either!


The QuantumBlue materials that we make for the ZF transmissions for 6 speed and 8 speed was developed over the last 9 years with over 500,000 miles of testing and real world use. We always do testing on the competitive fluids first to determine what they are made of and whether they are sufficient, equal to or even better than the OEM factory fluids.

Remember that the Audi C5 RS6 has been around since 2003 in the US and 2004 in Canada. Those were the only two years it was sent the the Americas.

We got involved with the ZF trans fluids in the 2005-2006 era when the people that have Audi A6 and A8 6 and 8 speed transmissions as well as the RS6 forum which wanted to have a better fluid than the typical ZF fluids for the ZF 5HP24A. Remember that the ZF 6 speed and 8 speed for Audi came out in late 2005 with the ZF Lifeguard fluids.

When Chrysler said that they were going to use the ZF trans, we got together very early after the announcement and were able to verify that the ZF Lifeguard fluids were the same as what was used for the Audi 6 speed which was G060-162-A2. We had evaluated those fluids years ago.

We found that the ZF Lifeguard fluids were what was to be spec'd for these Chrysler 8 speed transmissions when they came out. We had purchased the fluids from Audi years ago.

Once we knew what the baseline was and that the ZF Lifeguard was the same spec as the Audi fluids we were more than ready with a better version of our own fluid so that when we were asked about the Chrysler the 8 speed at the 50k mile range we would be ready.......already have hit the ground running from years before.

Since that time we have had great success and very happy customers who had replaced these ZF based fluids with our QuantumBlue Ultra HP ZF fluids. We had practical results from customers with the same manufacturer already in service for years.

The additives and compounds that are NECESSARY in these fluids to really protect and perform better in these transmissions cannot be included at $12.45 per quart let me assure you. We can't purchase these additives alone for that little amount.

Also remember that Amsoil is a PAO based oil. Poly Alpha Olefin oils are pumpable...yes.........however wearability is not very good nor do they do well with oxidational stability. They tend to oxidize slower than dino oils but are not as good as QuantumBlue is as our vapor threshold is at least 125 degrees higher than Amsoil and their Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid. This fluid is basically a jazzed version of Dexron VI. It is a low viscosity fluid and really not a direct replacement for these transmissions to work with the demands of the ZF 6 and ZF 8 speeds.

Remember that ZF has been making the Lifeguard fluid for Audi transmissions since 2005/2006 in the A6 and A8 cars as I said earlier. We were aware of it then as we work with a lot of European cars too.

The ZF transmissions are very very finicky about the fluids. Chrysler has struggled to incorporate these systems into their cars and have been working out the bugs in the software since they came out. Shuddering and hesitation doesn't have to be an everyday thing.

This is our 9th year working with these highly specific transmission blends!;)

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 

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But somehow this much less expensive fluid meets and exceeds ZF's fluid specification for that transmission. I'm not going to doubt that QB is the best possible solution for the long term life of the transmission, I just could not ever justify paying that much for fluid. Amsoil recommends their fluid for this transmission and backs it with a warranty if something were to happen caused by their fluid. Their fuel efficient blend is formulated with similar characteristics as their multi-vehicle as far as friction modifiers and other additives go. I don't have any doubt that it wouldn't withstand a long term test like the mult-vehicle stuff did.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
But somehow this much less expensive fluid meets and exceeds ZF's fluid specification for that transmission. I'm not going to doubt that QB is the best possible solution for the long term life of the transmission, I just could not ever justify paying that much for fluid. Amsoil recommends their fluid for this transmission and backs it with a warranty if something were to happen caused by their fluid. Their fuel efficient blend is formulated with similar characteristics as their multi-vehicle as far as friction modifiers and other additives go. I don't have any doubt that it wouldn't withstand a long term test like the mult-vehicle stuff did.
Ok, you have this confidence based upon what? Amsoils word? I too can type that one fluid we make meets and exceeds every spec of every transmission ever made with my computer too......but it wouldn't be true!

Good luck getting them to honor the warranty when you have a problem. In theory it is intact but when it comes to collecting on it....better have receipts and when, where and how you changed it. And if you ever raced it or tracked it etc, etc, etc........you won't collect on it and even if you are the 1 in 100 to do it......it will have a price limit they will pay!

Trust me when I tell you that IF we could make a fluid for the ZF for $12.45 per quart that contains what it should have in it we would do so! However it wouldn't contain what it needs to contain to protect the trans, seals gears and clutch packs! We are not in the business to gouge people but not cut out what is necessary either!

Unwise to pay too little. Any company can make a cheaper product a cheaper price and sell it for less money. People who purchase with the driving force to be a price target is these peoples prey.

If the trans doesn't function right, you will be holding the bag....trust me on that. ;)

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The pricing for this month is a good deal for real fluid.

10) 8 Speed transmission Flush Special - 8HP45 Transmission only 2012 cars have this transmission. 8 quarts of QuantumBlue ZF 8 speed Custom Blend transmission Fluid - Replaces Mopar P/N 68157995AA and P/N 68142478AB. Includes the plastic transmission pan/filter combination. $364.20. (Save $179.14) includes filtran pan and 8 quarts of fluid - No fill tube on this trans. Check via plug on side of transmission. The 2013 and up cars are using an 845RE 8 speed transmssion. So $ 301.20 (Save $135.30) for the pan/filter assembly and 8 quarts of ZF 8 speed Custom Blend Transmission Fluid.

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 

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Wow, I cant get over that pan/filter design, seems like a triumph of the packaging engineer over the technician. 24 freaking bolts? Really?

I do like the drain, but otherwise seems nuts to me.
 
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