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Discussion Starter #1
I finally got my Charger dyno tuned last week by Performance Race Engineering in Portland Oregon. My cars engine has the following bolt ons:
K&N CAI
Catch can
71mm Throttle Body
JBA Shorty Headers
Borla Dual Exhaust
Predator Tuner

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gq0i65z1aeowf3b/DYNO.JPG

As you can see in the plot (red is before tune, blue is after) above I gained a significant amount of torque (20+) and HP (22+) throughout the entire rpm range. One thing I would like to add is the Factory numbers of 250HP is complete BS. Unless I have a 100hp loss throughout my drivetrain. Which is a bit excessive. They are just plain lying about it.

The car is a joy to drive now. Instant throttle response and a nice strong pull all the way to red line. It runs great. Well worth the $600 to get it tuned.

Jeff
 

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I finally got my Charger dyno tuned last week by Performance Race Engineering in Portland Oregon. My cars engine has the following bolt ons:
K&N CAI
Catch can
71mm Throttle Body
JBA Shorty Headers
Borla Dual Exhaust
Predator Tuner

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gq0i65z1aeowf3b/DYNO.JPG

As you can see in the plot (red is before tune, blue is after) above I gained a significant amount of torque (20+) and HP (22+) throughout the entire rpm range. One thing I would like to add is the Factory numbers of 250HP is complete BS. Unless I have a 100hp loss throughout my drivetrain. Which is a bit excessive. They are just plain lying about it.

The car is a joy to drive now. Instant throttle response and a nice strong pull all the way to red line. It runs great. Well worth the $600 to get it tuned.

Jeff
I agree. The power loss is terrible for 3.5.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I really doubt its robbing 100hp. 40-50 maybe..
But in order for the 250hp claimed stock to be valid it would have to be around 100hp loss considering the bolt ons I have added and final numbers. Just doesn't seem possible it could be that high.

Jeff
 

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I really doubt its robbing 100hp. 40-50 maybe..
But in order for the 250hp claimed stock to be valid it would have to be around 100hp loss considering the bolt ons I have added and final numbers. Just doesn't seem possible it could be that high.

Jeff
Search around. I remember the stock 3.5 with either 42RLE or NAG1 puts out 170~180 to the wheels according to people's average dyno results. Roughly about 30% loss over the system.

With CAI, tuner and exahust you might be in the 190~200 range. To get over 200 you will need CAM, header, custom tuning or forced induction.

The power is enough for me to drive around with the bolt on modifications. I do hate the terrible efficiency though, both fuel efficiency and power loss are terrible compare to either the HEMIs or the new 3.6l
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Search around. I remember the stock 3.5 with either 42RLE or NAG1 puts out 170~180 to the wheels according to people's average dyno results. Roughly about 30% loss over the system.

With CAI, tuner and exahust you might be in the 190~200 range. To get over 200 you will need CAM, header, custom tuning or forced induction.

The power is enough for me to drive around with the bolt on modifications. I do hate the terrible efficiency though, both fuel efficiency and power loss are terrible compare to either the HEMIs or the new 3.6l
If 170rwhp is the stock value then a CAI, Throttle Body, Headers, Exhaust and Dyno tune would have only gotten me 26 hp. And 22 of that is the dyno tune alone. The stock numbers must be even lower than 170. Or its a different type of dyno. It would be hard to believe that all those bolt ons only produced 2 hp with the predator 91 octane tune.
Stock must be closer to 150 rwhp.

Jeff
 

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If 170rwhp is the stock value then a CAI, Throttle Body, Headers, Exhaust and Dyno tune would have only gotten me 26 hp. And 22 of that is the dyno tune alone. The stock numbers must be even lower than 170. Or its a different type of dyno. It would be hard to believe that all those bolt ons only produced 2 hp with the predator 91 octane tune.
Stock must be closer to 150 rwhp.

Jeff
Every car is different, but at the same time CAI might give you one or two increase in horsepower, the ported throttle body has always been in the debate if it actually gives any real power, exhaust doesn't really do anything in terms of adding power it just makes the car breath more efficiently much like the CAI, bolt ons honestly don't add too much. That said, it makes sense you got the majority of your power from your tune. Sorry man.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Every car is different, but at the same time CAI might give you one or two increase in horsepower, the ported throttle body has always been in the debate if it actually gives any real power, exhaust doesn't really do anything in terms of adding power it just makes the car breath more efficiently much like the CAI, bolt ons honestly don't add too much. That said, it makes sense you got the majority of your power from your tune. Sorry man.
So I drive in with a Predator 91 octane tune, CAI, Throttle Body, HEADERS, and dual exhaust and only get 2hp above stock? Factory numbers had to be closer to 150 than 170. Just the predator alone should add at least 10. I am assuming now that most of the mis match in numbers is probably dyno related. Mine was done on a Dyno Dynamics machine. Which I have read gives lower numbers than most other dynos.
I am very happy with how the car runs and drives. I am just really curious how they got 250 out of a stock motor. Even off the crank on a cold clear day with high octane gas it is hard to believe they came close to 250.

Jeff
 

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So I drive in with a Predator 91 octane tune, CAI, Throttle Body, HEADERS, and dual exhaust and only get 2hp above stock? Factory numbers had to be closer to 150 than 170. Just the predator alone should add at least 10. I am assuming now that most of the mis match in numbers is probably dyno related. Mine was done on a Dyno Dynamics machine. Which I have read gives lower numbers than most other dynos.
I am very happy with how the car runs and drives. I am just really curious how they got 250 out of a stock motor. Even off the crank on a cold clear day with high octane gas it is hard to believe they came close to 250.

Jeff
I forgot about your headers, I dunno man, hopefully someone with more knowledge in the subject can put in their two cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I forgot about your headers, I dunno man, hopefully someone with more knowledge in the subject can put in their two cents.
It could be dyno error. Figure 15% of 200% is 30hp. If my dyno read low and the numbers for the stock motors read high you could possibly see a 60hp delta. Unlikely yes, but the numbers we are talking about are within the range of error. So its entirely possible.
And had I seen the stock exhaust manifolds off the car prior to buying headers I may not have spent the money. The short tube JBA headers are not that different than the stock manifolds. The stock manifolds are actually quite nice with separated flow paths of approx equal length. So they may not add much if anything over stock unless you get the long tube versions.

Jeff
 

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So I drive in with a Predator 91 octane tune, CAI, Throttle Body, HEADERS, and dual exhaust and only get 2hp above stock? Factory numbers had to be closer to 150 than 170. Just the predator alone should add at least 10. I am assuming now that most of the mis match in numbers is probably dyno related. Mine was done on a Dyno Dynamics machine. Which I have read gives lower numbers than most other dynos.
I am very happy with how the car runs and drives. I am just really curious how they got 250 out of a stock motor. Even off the crank on a cold clear day with high octane gas it is hard to believe they came close to 250.

Jeff
You are correct. The reasons your numbers appear low is because of the type of Dyno you used. The Dyno Dynamics will read lower numbers compared to the others. Just like the Mustang Dyno, it is a load based dyno rather than the inertia based of the dynojet.

Modded Cobras that put down 500 rwhp plus on a Dynojet only put down 420-430 rwhp on a Dyno Dynamics machine. It's affectionately called the "Heartbreaker".

The factory HP is measured using the SAE standard which is different than these machines. Document SAE J2723 specifies the procedure to be used for a manufacturer to certify the net power and torque rating of a production engine according to SAE J1349 or the gross engine power of a production engine according to SAE J1995.
 

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it is a load based dyno rather than the inertia based of the dynojet.
Ddaddy is correct, I had my 2010 SXT dyno'd using the load base type knowing that it will show lower than the inertia based type.

My Charger had 75,000 miles when I dyno'd it at stock level and did 168 rwhp, so I was not too impressed, but not disappointed either.

After a CAI, exhaust, Diablo Intune, and a custom tune at the same dyno shop, I got 197.5 rwhp. Not bad for the money I invested.

Next week I am getting it dyno'd again after adding Brians quantum blue oil/filter and Aces IV. First I want to see if it made more rwhp, and I need to get my car tuned again. My fuel/air ratio got all jacked up by running the Aces IV and had to put the stock tune back in. After the dyno I plan on posting all the result of all my dyno's after each mod and the difference between the MPG between stock and now.
 

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K&N CAI
Catch can
71mm Throttle Body
JBA Shorty Headers
Borla Dual Exhaust
Predator Tuner
K&N = HP Loss
Catch Can = 0 HP Gain
71mm Throttle Body = 0 to negative
JBA Shorty = Probable 0 gain
JBA Exhaust = slight +
Predator Tuner = without a tune 0 gain.

Chrysler doesn't spend hundreds of million developing an engine and calibrating it for a car unless they maximize efficiency.
 

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K&N = HP Loss
Catch Can = 0 HP Gain
71mm Throttle Body = 0 to negative
JBA Shorty = Probable 0 gain
JBA Exhaust = slight +
Predator Tuner = without a tune 0 gain.
There was a reason why I did not spend my money on a 71 mm throttle body at this stage, without somethings to help the airflow inside the engine (like a cam), the 71 mm throttle body really does not help and as part Deux said, might hinder hp gain.
 

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Good thing I read through this post definitely was gonna say what Ddaddy said which dyno did you use? Plus it's not always about the numbers it's about your seat of the pants too. If you want to go fast you gotta pay to play really. On top of all that dyno info I'm sure it was pretty hot and most likely humid. And if your car was on all day I'm sure it was heat soaked too. Also some mods may not necessary CREATE more power but shift the torque curve to a more reachable level. Some things can also move your power band up. It's all about the result you are looking for
 
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