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Amplifier upgrade, thoughts and info-2nd gen

53K views 13 replies 7 participants last post by  Rafa 
#1 · (Edited)
There seems to be a bit of confusion out there about the audio systems in our Chargers and, even though I thought the 276 Watt Alpine system was pretty good for an OEM stereo, I ended up doing an upgrade. I have written about speaker upgrades with the 6-speaker premium Alpine system that generated some discussion, so I figured I would add my 2 cents to the amplifier question as well.

The Charger is put together really well for those wanting to mess with the audio. Compared to things I have read on the mobile audio forums, we have it pretty easy. Don’t be afraid to take off panels or run wires. With a few proper, inexpensive tools, you can do it and there is every little risk of ruining anything. Worst case scenario is having to get a new plastic fastener for a panel. A buck or two at the dealer. Guess why I know…

First off, before doing anything, do some planning. I was able to do my complete audio upgrade in steps over several months. This made it easy on the bank and kept it low on the spouse’s radar. I recommend doing a speaker upgrade first. You will be impressed with what that alone can do and it is interesting to see how each addition improves the sound. My suggestion would be to:

1) Replace speakers.
2) Add amps and sub.
3) Add Digital Signal Processing.

I have already talked about adding speakers using the OEM wiring so I won’t discuss that (That thread is “Speaker Replacement, Thoughts and Info” http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-161343.html). In short, you can add speakers that will fit using harness adapters you can buy on line or at a supplier. Don’t worry too much about the wiring. What the system comes with is fine for the OEM amp. Even the 24--18 gauge wire that is typical can run 3.5-16 amps steady and resistance is only about .025- .006 ohms/foot. The harness wiring we have appears to be 18 gauge. That’s plenty for basic stuff. Big fat aftermarket amps will run around 10 Amps per channel at peak (which will make your ears bleed). Here is a reference for that information.

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

Assuming you have replaced your speakers, your next goal would be adding a sub and an aftermarket amplifer for more bass. The main question people have is how to get the signal for the bass, and then how to configure and wire a sub or speakers. To start, you need to know what you have. For the 6-speaker 276 Watt Alpine system there is a lot of confusion I have seen on the forums.
Here is a picture of what I have figured out reading posts from others and testing with an audio analyzer:



So the front signal is divided to play bass in the doors and highs in the dash. The rear speakers only play mid-bass because they have no tweeter, but they do get a full signal. Also, the crossover for the front and any EQ is performed at the amp, not at the head unit. That will influence what you want to do for amp upgrade. Importantly, the head unit will limit the bass signal going to the speakers at high volume so that you don’t kill the speakers. This is a major issue because, if you want to add a sub, you have to deal with that. But there are solutions.

Also, the speaker wires are a little hard to figure out. There are two connectors on the OEM amp, which is located on the driver left kick panel. Here are the wiring diagrams for the connectors on the amp. I marked the wiring and highlighted their descriptions. You can see the dash speaker wires are on the same connector as the input from the radio. The C1 connector has a lot of options based on the harness/package but will only be populated with the specific system wiring you have. This is why you can't just plug in an 8" sub into the rear deckand harness wiring. The connectors are both accessible by removing the upper silencer cover over the brake pedal. Looking up to the side, you will see these on the bottom of the amp while you wreck your neck. The C1 connector is black/dark gray and the C2 is white.





For adding an amp, you have to decide if you want to tap in to the signal after the OEM amp, or before. Most aftermarket amps will take a speaker-level high input, or a pre-amp level low input. Using the speaker level input, you preserve all of the function of the head unit including tone control, but you have to deal with the bass limiting for the output. By taking a pre-amp signal, you lose the tone control function, but balance and fade and speed-adjusted volume are preserved because they are done at the head unit, not the amp. You also avoid the bass-limiting issue.

Just powering a sub
If you just want to add a sub to your system, here is my best recommendation. Although this is not what I did, I would recommend tapping into the rear speaker wires, running them to a Low Output Converter like the Audio Control LC2i, then running that signal to a mono or 2.1 amp to send the signal to a sub or to a sub and rear deck speakers. You could also just tap the signal and run to an all-in-one powered sub.



As far as what size or how many subs/amps you want, that is all personal. I just wanted to fill out my music, so I added a 10” sub in a sealed enclosure to give the smoothest, most accurate response. Sub enclosures make a big difference and each sub requires specific specs. Generally, sealed enclosures are smallest and most accurate, ported make more sound but are larger, and band-pass are the largest but can be tuned for high sound pressure at specific frequencies. A correctly sized sealed enclosure for a 10” sub sounds great in my car. It doesn’t take up a lot of space but it can take about 300W RMS which is plenty loud for even for the occasional heavy session. I used the Infinity Reference dual-coil 1062W that requires a 1.25 cubic foot enclosure that fits easily in the trunk. A 12" will have the ability to hit lower frequencies, but my measurements show this one does just fine down to 30 Hz. It secures to the floor of the trunk using only the hooked side of industrial Velcro from Home Depot. I used four strips, which is very secure, but I am still able to remove it in case I need to get in to the spare/battery. I initially did this so I could move it around and look for the best placement, but it was secure enough that I never used any L-brackets to bolt it down.

Also, if you think you need to have multiple subs for max SPL, think again. Two subs doubles the sound, which is 3 dB. You can barely tell that without a measuring device.





Powering your whole system

If you want to power your whole system with aftermarket amps, you have to make the choice of pulling your signal from the speaker wires after the OEM amp, or getting the low level signal from the head unit.

To take your signal after the amp, which preserves all the functions of the Head Unit, you need a signal summing device to reassemble the split dash and front door. Again I would recommend a summing device like the Audio Control LC6i or LC 7i. These units will take your speaker level inputs and re-combine them so that they contain the full range signal. The front speakers are split and this will sum them back to an original full-strength signal. You can input the six speaker inputs, re-combine the fronts, and get out a front full range signal, a rear full range signal, and a sub signal. You can then run these to aftermarket amps for sub and speakers. I didn’t like this in principle because it is a bit like taking a raw photo image, changing it to a JPEG, and then trying to reconstruct the raw image again. I actually bought an LC7i to test out, but I haven’t done that yet. Lots of people are happy with this option based on what I have read.



To take your signal after the head unit, which gives you, in theory, a cleaner signal that does not need to be reassembled and is not bass-limited, you need to attach an adapter/LOC unit from PAC Audio (C2A-CHY5) after the head unit to read the pre-amp output and the CAN Bus network in order to give the correct volume and balance/fade. This is what I used. I give it mixed reviews. For the bad, the volume control you get is not smooth, but rather in steps. At the lowest setting of “1” it is still a little on the loud side. There is some noise in the unit that I haven’t tracked down, but it is at a low level and intermittent. On the other hand it gives a strong, flat signal out and the system sounds great. I also think this is a little easier to set up than an LOC that needs input from all the speakers. This is because the battery is in the trunk so you have to run a long power wire and there isn’t really a good place to put the LOC up by the driver kick panel. Otherwise you have to tap in to the front speaker wires and run them to the back. I describe a good way to do that below. I might still test this out someday.



Installing an Amp, or two
Amp choice should take into consideration your speakers. If you have replaced the stock speakers, you are likely to have 3.5” speakers up in the dash and either 6x9 or 6.5” speakers in the doors and rear. This is not as common as having component speakers that have a 5.25 or 6.5 mid-bass speaker and a tweeter connected by a passive crossover. But in some sense this is an advantage. Many amps come with built in converters so you can use the speaker-level input. They will also have crossovers built in that are perfect for the 3.5/6x9 situation. You can high-pass your signal from anywhere around 200 Hz on up to the dash and low-pass the doors below that for bass. Doing that gives a great stereo image as well. You can also incorporate the OEM amp, though it won’t have as much power. The amps install nicely in the trunk mounted along the back seat. The hard plastic backing accepts the screws for the amps and make a secure mounting surface. This also kept them out of the way and gave easy access to the amp settings by folding the rear seats down. So your options are:

1) Use an adapter like the PAC Audio device to get a low-level signal to output to your amps. I ended up with this in the end.
2) Use an LOC like the Audio Control Devices to sum your signal post OEM amp and separate out a sub signal, then go to your amps I haven't tested this but research says it is a good option
3) Tap into your speaker wire or harness somewhere to run directly to amps that accept a high level input. I did this for a little while while and it was a good option

I installed:

PAC C2A-CHY5 Adapter (But you could use an Audio Control LC6i or LC7i LOC summing/converter)
JBL GTO 504EZ 4 Channel Amp (For front door and dash speakers)
JBL GTO 3EZ 2.1 channel amp (For rear and sub)
2 NVX XKIT82 amp installation Kits (From Sonic Electronix, very impressed with the quality of their house brand stuff)

Installing the PAC C2A-CHy5 Adapter This is a little scary if you haven’t done it, but in the end is pretty simple. You need to install the adapter at the rear of the radio, so you have to pull it out. The radio is actually behind the fan controls, not the screen. There are some great videos on how to do this, and it only takes a little effort. I have the 8 spd transmission, so I had to pop off the top of the shifter. Using a nylon body panel tool (a whole set for 5 bucks at Harbor freight) you can pry it up and expose the set screw, which is a 4mm hex/Allan bolt. Here’s a picture for reference:



That lifts off the rest of the handle and you can then follow this video for the rest. You don’t need to pull off the whole cluster, just take the radio out, plug in the PAC unit at the back white 22 pin connector you see in the video, hook up the ground wire, then put it all back together.

http://youtu.be/LwjFdxZky4Y

Install the Adapter according to the instructions at the back of the head unit. I found I had to ground the unit to get a clean signal. It sounded OK without, but then got much louder and clearer when I did. I grounded to the left radio chassis where there is a good screw that accommodates a spade connector and ran and additional length of 18 gauge from that spade to the back of the trunk for a common ground point with the other equipment. This keeps noise down low by preventing ground-loops, which are caused by ground points that are not really in common and have a voltage difference. There may be some that argue this point. The PAC unit also has a remote-turn on line for activating the amps and preventing any power-on pops. I extended this with 18 gauge wire from the amp kit and plugged it into both amps rather than using the remote-sensing function of the amps. I did try that out and it worked pretty well, but I liked the remote wire solution better as it seemed to work faster. I ran the adapter RCA plugs just over the panels above the accelerator and brake pedals. I pulled them out a bit for this picture so you can see how I ran it. The unit is behind the radio, there is plenty of room back there, and I ran the RCA’s from here and over the panels above the pedals and into the left kick panes silencer. This way I can get to them if needed. In all you should be running a ground wire (18 gauge) a remote wire (18 gauge) and two sets of paired RCA cables from the Pac unit toward the back of the trunk. The kits had plenty of wire to accomplish this.



Running signal wire and speaker wire back to the trunk. This is a lot easier than I expected. The driver side has a very deep channel and all the panels pop on and off with clips for easy access. In addition to the wires from the PAC unit, I also pulled my Dash speakers out and connected the 16 G speaker wire to them. The installation for speakers is described elsewhere, but in short I ran the right speaker wire over the dash to the right speaker, and dropped both left and right speaker wire down the hole for the left dash speaker. There is plenty of room and channels in the dash under the top cover to run wire. This way the wire comes out at the left kick panel at the same place as the RCA’s and ground/remote wires from the PAC unit. I also ran speaker wire for the door speakers, but I didn’t run it through the doors, I just terminated them at the OEM AMP. I’ll explain that below.

You can move the driver kick silencer panel, the foot-rest carpeting, and lift out all the runners on the driver side, the inverted T panel at the B pillar, and the runner cover and back seat side bolster. Everything pops out and the rear left passenger seat bolster (the part that doesn’t fold down) is the only screw you have to undo. Instructions for removing panels and running wire can be found with the MOPAR Rear Camera installation instructions, only that will refer to the passenger side, but otherwise it all works the same. The wires will run neatly along the channel, up along the rear passenger seat and into the trunk under the flap for the rear folding seats with no issue. This picture illustrates the passenger side, but the driver side is the same.





Powering, securing, and grounding the amps This is the great thing about our cars. You can run a short stretch of power cable under the trunk floor panel to your amps. The positive battery terminal accommodates one or more of the power cables and you need only a few feet. The fuse holders, which needs to be no more than 18” from the battery, fit under the floor panel nicely. The NVX power cable comes pre-marked for the place you should splice in the fuse holder, which is convenient. The picture shows only one of the power lines and fuse holders from the amp kits. The other fit very neatly under the silencer panel lip on the right side of the trunk so you can’t see it. My amps required a 10 gauge and 8 gauge line, so I just bought two 8 gauge kits for my installation. You can also use a larger gauge power wire, such as 4 or 0 and then a power distribution block. But the two individual ones hooked up fine here and seemed to fit better overall. Cost less too. The fuse holders fit nicely into a channel in the flooring so no need to worry about clearance.



Because the ground should be close by within 3 feet, I sanded down an unused place for a rear seat fastener and drilled an 8mm self-tapping sheet metal screw into place. I used this to ground the amps, the extended PAC ground, and my digital sound processors that I will talk about later.



And here is how I mounted the amps directly onto the rear fold-down seats,



Tapping into OEM wiring OK, maybe I am a little bit of a wuss, but I was daunted by the task of running 16-gauge speaker wire into the front doors. I was also experimenting with a lot of configurations and had the thought that someday I may want to return everything to stock. So what I did was to take the C1 and C2 connectors at the amp and splice in 18 gauge bullet connectors. This way, I could detach the out wiring for the doors, rear deck, or dash (the outs for the dash are on the C1 22-pin connector. The outs for the others are on the C2 16-pin connector) and plug in the speaker leads from the amps. Sure you are running lower gauge wire the last couple feet, but it is convenient. If you are running an LOC after the amp or just want to run a high-level signal directly into the high inputs in the amp this also works well. You can make little custom RCA adapters to plug into the bullet connectors and plug those into the RCA interconnects that run to the back an plug into the amps. Lots of options here by doing that so you can find whatever suits you. I have to confess that getting bullet adapters secure on the harness wiring was a hassle for a couple of them. With the connectors you can work on a bench top. For the harness you have to get on your back to get up there and strip and crimp the connectors on. I suggest getting some decent crimping tools.







Installing a Digital Signal Processor
If you have gone up through a speaker and amp upgrade, you are probably pretty happy with how your system sounds. But in reality, even if you have used top-quality speakers and amps, it won’t be as good as it can be, and I have just ruined it for you. There are a number of issues with trying to install stereo in a tin can that you are sitting off center in. You are not in the center of the “stage”, you have sound coming at you in all directions, arriving at different times, and it is reflecting off of some surfaces like the windows, as well as being absorbed by things like the seats. So you have a lot of sound, but no focus, spikes and valleys in the frequency response and blurry imaging. It can’t be fixed perfectly, but you can make huge improvements by using a digital sound processor, or DSP. A DSP is basically a dedicated computer that will equalize the sound, precisely control the crossover frequency between the speakers, and adjust the output volume and the timing of each speaker so that you get the sound in the correct time-domain at the right intensity. Excellent DSPS are made by Rockford Fosgate, Alpine, JL, and JBL, as well as audiophile companies like Audison and Helix. These run in the $600-$1000 + range. Not for me. Precision Power/Soundstream make a very good $500-$600 range DSP as well. These are based on the audiophile company MiniDSP, based in Hong Kong. MiniDSP also makes its own DSP’s with very high quality components and specs, but they are intended for use by the DIY crowd, of which I am one of. These DSPs sell for $125. Now you are talking! I highly recommend the miniDSP’s and by extension, the PPI DEQ8. These are installed between your signal and amplifier and handle all the sound processing. One of the best things about these is that they adjust the time-alignment of speakers so that you can perfectly align left and right for excellent stereo imaging. Another is that you can time the speakers front and rear so that the subwoofer sound arrives at the same time as the rest of the sound, which makes percussion and bass instruments sound like they are coming out of your window. The equalization function also help to correct the distortions from reflections, phasing of the sound, or other things that can lead to odd sounds or distortions. I guarantee that this will make your system sound amazing.



And if you actually read this far, Thanks, I owe you a beer!
 
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#2 ·
A quick recommendation for those with the Base 6 speaker audio

I rented a car today and got a 2013 Charger with the base 6 speaker stereo. So I listened to a lot of stuff while on a 90 mile drive and I figured out that it is easy to push the bass too much, it was a bit muddy because it was working too hard at the low end, and there isn't much high end on the dash speakers.

Just replacing the dash speakers would make a big difference. That and maybe an amp and sub tapped off the rear speakers to run the rears and sub and I bet you will be pretty happy. If the sub takes the burden off the 6x9 for bass so you don't need to push them with high volume, and the dash clear up the sound quality, you will probably have a good system, at least until you save some coin for new 6x9's. You might decide you don't need to replace them or you could use just the mid-bass from a component set without the tweeters. Doing it in stages is more interesting anyway.
 
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#3 ·
Learned something new about the base system.

If you are using a LOC like the LC2i and presumable the Lc6,7,or8i, you may experience cutout because the stock system will no longer detect resistance and mute the channels. Recommendation from Audio Control is to install resistors on the inputs to maintain signal resistance. Some amps come with differential Hi-level inputs to provide this as if they take a direct speaker level signal as well, but if you are using an LOC, this might be necessary. Recommended resistor is 100 Ohm @0.5 Watt or 150 Ohm @0.25 Watt.

 
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#4 ·
Hello. this is a most EXCELLENT post. I cannot tell you how long I looked for something like this. I do have two questions though. I have a '14 Charger R/T with the Beats system.
When you talk about the base audio vs. the premium audio - Does that premium audio include the Beats system? As far as I know, the only difference between the 276 watt Alpine system and the Beats Audio is the amplifier used to power the speakers, and the addition of the 8" Beats sub in the trunk.
My second question is when you talk about the head unit limiting the bass going to the speakers at high volumes. Do you think this would also affect the 8" Beats sub in the trunk. I was thinking of just disconnecting the Beats sub and using those existing speaker wires to power a bridged 2-Channel Amp and run a single 12" sub. However if the head unit cuts power to the sub at high volumes, then this may not work.
Thanks for your input!!
-bob
 
#5 ·
The 6-speaker premium 276 watt system was what I was referring to. But it seems all the systems using an amp use the same amp, but it is programmed differently. The connectors have all the outputs for the various configurations, which means there is probably a code that determines what is functional. I think all the wattages for the systems divide evenly by 46 watts. 46 watts is the peak power of the amps per channel (not RMS watts, which is probably only in the teens because it is usually only about 1/2 to 1/3 the peak values). I forgot where I found that info. I think it was on a Chrysler or Alpine website at one point.

As far as the sub goes, the issue is probably that the amp just doesn't put out enough power to realistically drive a sub. But bass-limiting is common on oem systems, which is why a lot of aftermarket processors like Audio Control and others have a "bass restoration" circuit which restores the bass signal. Amps also have the "bass boost" feature that can do that as well. I would go for it. Run the bridged amp and if needed, add something like the Audio Control LC2i above later.
 
#6 ·
Hey, thanks for the information. So here is my plan - but I have a few questions. Would you mind giving me your opinion? So I was going to do two things.

1) cut the four wires that go into the Beats subwoofer (they power each voice coil independently) and use those as high level inputs into a 2 channel amp, bridge it and output it to one 12" sub.
2) Cut the inputs that go into the rear factory 6X9 speakers in the back deck, and use those as a 2 channel high level input for a 4 channel amplifier (which can convert 2 channel input into 4 channel output), and then use the 4 outputs of the amp to power the front door and rear deck 6X9 speakers (using my own speaker wire from the amp to the speakers.) I would of course have to disconnect the stock wires going to the front door 6X9 speakers. Since the rear 6X9 speakers receive a full signal from the head unit (they are not restricted to bass like the door 6X9s), now all 4 of my 6X9s will get a full signal, and can get more power.

End result - Head unit and factory amp power all 3 dash speakers and the rear door 3.5", my 1st amp powers the sub, and my 2nd amp powers all 6X9s.

Questions:
1) If I disconnect the wires from the factory amp to the front 6X9 speakers (so I can use the wires from my new amp instead), then this will leave those factory wires open to the air with no load on them. I recall that it is a bad thing to have an amp outputting to wires that are not connected to anything. But I also heard that may only apply to older "tube" style amplifiers and may not be a problem these days. Do you think this would be a problem?
If it is a problem, since the factory speakers are 2 ohm, would I just be able to connect a 2 ohm resistor between the (+) and (-) wires that I disconnected and use that as a "fake" speaker?
2) Do you see any other issues with this setup?

Thanks again for your help.
 
#8 ·
Best car audio thread I've seen and read in a LONG time, hands down!!! Very informative. I can't wait to upgrade the sound in mine! I've had aftermarket audio systems in all my vehicles and though the Alpine system doesn't sound too bad compared to most stock sound systems in other makes and models, there's nothing like being able to feel your music as if you're front row at a concert with good quality aftermarket speakers and subs.
 
#10 ·
If you're talking about the items needed then yes, but I'd amplify the speakers as well if you want the best sound quality overall. But "little dollar output" I wouldn't consider it that as you get what you pay for these days. But all in all, cheap may sound good to some. All depends on what type of sound you like and if you're a stickler about your sound like most of us audiophiles. I'd also recommend a capacitor as well...
 
#12 ·
Charger Audio System upgrade. My Experience

Hello All. I've been meaning to get around to posting for a while, But haven't really found the chance to sit and do it. I plan to post a full write up of my 3 month nightmare with upgrading the audio system in my charger in hopes that it will benefit someone else down the road. I can tell you a lot of what does and does not work at this point. However, this is going to be a very short version for the moment focusing on one particular issue I ran into.

First, thanks to "iamstubb". Not sure if he is still around, but the time he took to contribute to this topic was extremely helpful in my original search for answers to audio problems. I am sure I am not the only Dodge Charger owner who has found that the more you search for answers, the more confused and lost you become as there seems NO straight answers out there on existing stock systems.
I am still new to the charger, Having driven nothing but Jeep Wranglers for the past 15 years. And, still the proud owner of my baby, my 2015 Rubicon X hardrock unlimited.
However, through needing a rental for a week, I fell in love with the ride of the Dodge Charger and ended up with a 2015 392 SRT. baby # 2.
Both have the Alpine "premium" sound system. But, while the one in the Jeep rocks, the one in the charger sounded like Trash.

Starting with the 6 speaker Alpine premium system. My plan was simple. Upgrade the speakers, use speaker level out's from the full range rears, install mono amp and 8" free air sub in existing hole already in the rear deck. Couldn't have been any more simple. Worth noting, I am not new to car audio. While I don't currently work in the field, I did so for years in College and also had the assistance for my day project from a friend who is a MECP certified installer and who does currently work in the field. a couple of hours on a Saturday and done deal. Easy...... I couldn't have been more wrong.

Again, very long story short, we completed the above easy process, but once installed, nothing we seemed to do actually "worked". Yes, there was sound, signal...etc. But it sounded like garbage. In fact, the more we did, the worse it seemed to get. turning the amp, sub and all new installation off actually improved sound, but once it was powered back up the sound took a nose dive. I assure you, the install was clean and correct and for all intent and purpose, should have sounded much better.

Fast forward a month and half down the road, numerous gear change outs from pioneer to alpine to kicker to Rockford. uncountable yards of wiring, frustration and numerous bouts of questioning my sanity...
After another 7 hour day of "are we both idiots?", a charger basically stripped to two front seats and audio gear all over the carport and two very defeated men sitting and staring at it. My friend (not even sure what inspired the action) reached over, grabbed one of the factory Alpine 6x9's that came in the car and laying around, and.....stuck a Phase Meter to it. Pos to Pos, Neg to Neg... red light "out of phase".
Next, we grabbed one of the Kicker Mopar factory replacement 6x9's that had been purchased, touched the meter and... Red Light "out of phase". What the hell?
we tested every factory alpine and every mopar kicker replacement. all "Out of phase". Ok, the meter is broken. The only thing not factory alpine or mopar kicker was a pair of Rockford 3.5' speaker I had put in the dash at this point. Yanked the dash, pulled them out and touched the meter to them. Green Light "in Phase".
we repeated the process with a second phase meter And the 9 volt battery test. Same results each time. Hours later and light bulbs going off left and right in our brains, Not only were the speakers out of phase. But the damn car was "out of phase". What were supposed to be the Positive wires were actually the negatives and the Negatives were actually the positive. (yes, we triple checked the diagrams and color codes). and again, what was supposed to be positive wire was going to the positive terminal on the speaker but was actually a negative and vice versa.
All speakers tested that had zero to do with Mopar Alpine's or Mopar Kicker's (including a few kicker subs and speakers from other lines like CS, DS...etc) all tested as in phase. Just none that came with or had to do with the car.

making the huge assumption that not only the audio equipment, but the factory car wiring itself was correct, we were in the end, running Positives into Negative and Negatives into Positives and defeating ourselves each time.
Once this was all realized, adjusted for, and weeks later. I now have a great sounding.. REALLY great sounding audio system. Multiple actually. Either with the 8' free air sub or, buy changing two connections, a really hard hitting 12' behind the back seats depending on my mood.

Moral of the story to anyone starting down the path to a better sounding charger system. Check your Phase's first!

What I learned along the way with car acoustics, equipment, sound dampening, vibration hot spots...etc for this particular car could fill a book. And, as stated, I do plan on posting a longer write up on what equip I tried and what I ended up with. Thanks to all before me on this forum who posted on the topic
 
#13 ·
Thanks for the shout out. I am here, but not as often as I used to be. I feel for you and your experience. I realize looking back that when I added the sound processor and started taking measurements of the frequency responses that there are a lot of issues with phase. With my processor you can toggle the phase, and there can be holes based on just where you are listening from. I think I switched phase between the door and dash at the 300 Hz range to get it to sound right and you could tell from the frequency response that without doing that there was cancellation. I think I also changed L and R so that, going from left door around the dash to the right door it went +, -, +, -. But when I did that the sound was really good with lots of detail. I would recommend using a free sound analysis program like REW or even True RTA to analyze your sound. You can set it up with a laptop and less than 30 dollars worth of equipment. Between that and a digital sound processor you can really make the system sing. It takes time but it is interesting just to see how things like phase, tme delay to get the timing right with all the speakers, using the right differential on balance, and some EQ can make a system sing.

I didn't go with the free-air sub because I was worried about power and vibration. I am still happy with the sealed 10" but now that I am more familiar I would probably give that a try just to keep things clean.
 
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#14 ·
I have a question. How do you get around the having the Rear parking sensor signal coming thru the speakers? I turned of the the parking sensor with the button on the con sole but if a car comes close to the bumper I get that loud piercing sound thru the speakers.
 
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