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HELP! First Time Snow Driver

17K views 57 replies 25 participants last post by  Yuro 
#1 ·
Greetings to all the members,

Winter is here and i've been getting tons of advice from colleagues and friends to get my charger a set of snow tires. The thing is, i have never driven in snow and i am not sure what needs to be done and what can be avoided... I've done some research on the internet, but too much advice confuses people and i am currently in that state.

My car:
2012 - Charger SE - V6 - RWD - FiberSpoiler (After Factory) - 215/65-17 (Tire Size)

My Drive:
12 Miles to Work, One-Way
of which 11 Miles are on the Interstate - I84, Connecticut

My questions:
1. Do i actually need snow tires? I've been told, i don't actually need snow tires if i am not going to drive in more than 2 inches of snow!
2. If yes, Can i go for used ones? How to make a choice?
3. If i ain't saving enough by getting used ones, Which make of new tires do i buy?
4. A lot of people recommended adding weight to the rear, by putting sand bags in the trunk. Some have suggested against it. How does it matter?

Some people also mentioned about taking extra care of the car with regards to salt sprinkled on the road - Rims and under carriage rusting - Any advice on specific maintenance for the snow season?

And last - Any tips regarding driving itself? Dos and Don'ts...

All help is sincerely appreciated.

Thanks in advance!!
Yash :)
 
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#2 ·
Well, it depends on where you live. I have driven my SRT with the original RSA tires through several winters without issue. I upgraded to the Continental Extreme Contact DWS 2 winters ago since they are the best all season tires I could find and haven't had any issues.

If you see lots of snow, get full snow tires. If you see only a few inches at a time and the occassional heavy snow, you don't need more than all season tires. The Charger is a heavy RWD vehicle with managable low end torque and traction control. It was far more difficult driving the RWD cars 30 years ago, but we never feared the snow then either. I drove through a 33" snowfall from a Nor'easterback in the winter of 1993 in a '92 RWD Ford Ranger compact pick-up truck without traction control and had no issues

I've seen snow across this kind of range and I have no fear of driving in it with all season tires in my 425 hp RWD SRT Charger...








 

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#12 ·
Well, it depends on where you live. I have driven my SRT with the original RSA tires through several winters without issue. I upgraded to the Continental Extreme Contact DWS 2 winters ago since they are the best all season tires I could find and haven't had any issues.

If you see lots of snow, get full snow tires. If you see only a few inches at a time and the occassional heavy snow, you don't need more than all season tires. The Charger is a heavy RWD vehicle with managable low end torque and traction control. It was far more difficult driving the RWD cars 30 years ago, but we never feared the snow then either. I drove through a 33" snowfall from a Nor'easterback in the winter of 1993 in a '92 RWD Ford Ranger compact pick-up truck without traction control and had no issues

I've seen snow across this kind of range and I have no fear of driving in it with all season tires in my 425 hp RWD SRT Charger...
Thank you for the information Ddaddy!
I live in Danbury, Conencticut and from what i have heard from locals, it snows pretty heavy out here. So, i guess i'll go for winter tires over all-season tires...

I would add one old trick I've always used...when trying to stop or turn in extremely slippery conditions, put the tranny in neutral to take the power off the wheels. It will help to make the stops and turns far more easily controlled, and after you complete the turn or stop, put it back in to drive to regain power.

It's very surprising how few folks know this trick, and after they try it are impressed at how effective it is.
Now, this is a great piece of information. I'll be trying this when i get a chance. Now i know when to use 'Neutral', other than when driving the car on a car wash track.
Thank you!:bigthumb:
 
#3 ·
Yash,

Welcome to the forums first of all.

With respect to your questions, driving in light to moderate snow isn't what it used to be as Ddaddy correctly mentioned. The V6's are easy to control as long as you keep your speed moderate, start from a stop slowly and don't exceed the limits of the traction control.

I've been driving in snow for close to 30 years and the best tips I can offer you are these:

1. Lane transitions are the most dangerous part of snow driving since accumulated slush and snow can force the tire to lose contact as you change lanes. If you're new to snow driving, try to stay in the same lane on your commute.

2. Never exceed your own personal limits. It's OK to feel uncomfortable if you've never driven in snow before but if it the thought makes you queasy, you're better off letting someone else drive you.

3. Leave plenty of stopping distancein front of you in case you need to stop suddenly due to an obstacle or slow moving traffic.

4. Practice. No really, I mean this. If you can take your car to an empty parking lot with a bit of snowfall this will give you a great idea as to how it handles and what the limits are. Go 15 miles and hour and slam on the brakes to see what happens. It's a great way to understand when the car is simply wagging the rear and when it's at the limit for traction.

5. As much as possible, try to keep moving and avoid stopping in deep snow. If you do need to start from a stop, do so gently to avoid as much wheelspin as possible. Traction control will be a big help here.

I don't personally go for the sandbag route but in Oklahoma, where most people drive 2WD trucks with light rear ends, people swear by that tactic. I would think that a full tank of gas, which weighs around 160 lbs. is more than enough to hold the rear end to the road.

Due to salt content in the Northeast (we mercifully use sand here) I would at least get an undercarriage wash when you can and at the very least pressure wash everything off of the wheels and body whenever possible. Make sure you've waxed your baby before the season starts to at least protect the finish as much as possible.

More than anything else, relax and take your time. Don't let anyone pressure you and don't feel rushed. Once you understand your limits and those of your car, you'll be fine.

Good luck!
 
#13 ·
Yash,

Welcome to the forums first of all.
Thank you Hazmat!

5. As much as possible, try to keep moving and avoid stopping in deep snow. If you do need to start from a stop, do so gently to avoid as much wheelspin as possible. Traction control will be a big help here.
Is traction control the same as ABS?
Is traction control activated when required or is the something i have to look into each time i drive?

I don't personally go for the sandbag route but in Oklahoma, where most people drive 2WD trucks with light rear ends, people swear by that tactic. I would think that a full tank of gas, which weighs around 160 lbs. is more than enough to hold the rear end to the road.
Hmmm... Any alternatives to sandbags?

Due to salt content in the Northeast (we mercifully use sand here) I would at least get an undercarriage wash when you can and at the very least pressure wash everything off of the wheels and body whenever possible. Make sure you've waxed your baby before the season starts to at least protect the finish as much as possible.
I take my car to a local touchless car wash system nearby and go for only the simple exterior wash. All the other jazz, i feel is unnecessary. Now that winter is here, i'll go for an undercarriage wash too.
How is waxing going to help? What kind of waxing do i need?

More than anything else, relax and take your time. Don't let anyone pressure you and don't feel rushed. Once you understand your limits and those of your car, you'll be fine.

Good luck!
I will Hazmat! Thanks for all the tips :)
 
#4 ·
Good points! ^^^

I would add one old trick I've always used...when trying to stop or turn in extremely slippery conditions, put the tranny in neutral to take the power off the wheels. It will help to make the stops and turns far more easily controlled, and after you complete the turn or stop, put it back in to drive to regain power.

It's very surprising how few folks know this trick, and after they try it are impressed at how effective it is.
 
#5 ·
I've always driven a stick and this is my first auto. I used to do that when I had a clutch but never thought of dropping to neutral now that I don't.

Nice tip sir. I'll be sure to use that one.
 
#6 ·
Welcome Yash! :bigthumb:

A couple of things to mention...

1st, I would HIGHLY suggest you spend some $$ & take a 1 day winter driving course...they are worth their weight in gold & it will absolutely be an 'eye opener' especially for someone with no winter driving experience.

I personally have over 20 years of experience of driving in winter conditions.

I will kindly direct you to this link from Automobile Magazine that (ironically) is actually testing a 2012 Dodge Charger RWD SXT Blacktop of the differences in summer, all season & winter tires...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvd-rWRBWxo

As for as set of winter tires...after months of research, I went with the new Toyo Observe GSi5 for my 2012 Blacktop. More info here...

http://www.toyotires.ca/tire/pattern/observe-gsi5

Good luck!
 
#14 ·
Welcome Yash! :bigthumb:

A couple of things to mention...

1st, I would HIGHLY suggest you spend some $$ & take a 1 day winter driving course...they are worth their weight in gold & it will absolutely be an 'eye opener' especially for someone with no winter driving experience.
To be honest, i was actually considering this. I'll set something up in the coming week...

I will kindly direct you to this link from Automobile Magazine that (ironically) is actually testing a 2012 Dodge Charger RWD SXT Blacktop of the differences in summer, all season & winter tires...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvd-rWRBWxo
Very informative! Thank you :)

As for as set of winter tires...after months of research, I went with the new Toyo Observe GSi5 for my 2012 Blacktop. More info here...

http://www.toyotires.ca/tire/pattern/observe-gsi5

Good luck!
Now, information like this is really what i was seeking. Appreciate this so much.

I have an irony to share, too...
The quote on my key chain, is the same as your signature!!
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/182380_10150863636565168_36300739_n.jpg :rocker:
 
#7 ·
a few things....

they really aren't just SNOW tires, they are WINTER tires. besides the tread pattern and siping meant for grip on snow and ice, they also typically have different rubber compounds that stay more flexible and compliant in sub 45 degrees for better grip.

good article w/video

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1211_rubber_matter_tires_test/

I'd have no problem buying used snows, with a few caveats. I'd ask the seller the tread depth, and make sure there's at least 50% tread (can usually find new tread depth measurement on the tire manufacturer's site) and also find out the tire date code. I'm leery of buying used tires more than 5 years old, as the rubber tends to harden as it ages.

here's info on how to find out about a tire's age
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11&

lastly, if you want an all season that works as effectively as a dedicated snow tire, look at the Nokian WRG2 tires when it comes time to replace yours.
 
#9 ·
a few things....

they really aren't just SNOW tires, they are WINTER tires. besides the tread pattern and siping meant for grip on snow and ice, they also typically have different rubber compounds that stay more flexible and compliant in sub 45 degrees for better grip.
Correct! 'Snow' tires have pretty much gone the way of the dodo bird & have for years. Sadly, many folks still use the term 'snow' & 'winter' tires interchangably when they are actually completely 2 different animals.

:beerchug:
 
#8 · (Edited)
Welcome to the forums. For starters, good for you to realize that you don't have the knowledge/experience and have sought help here.

All of the suggestions so far are good ones. I am from CT originally and drove through 8 winters there from when I was first licensed until I moved away. I also use to drive I-84 all the time between Southbury and Hartford (full-time EMT in Waterbury).

Where in CT are you exactly? Those not familiar may not realize that CT is by no means flat, and the odds of encountering inclines and hills in snow and icy conditions are better than flat, level roads. Also, they may not realize that CT has no county government and all the 169 towns are responsible for clearing their own roads (State number routes excluded). Many do it poorly.

I would consider dedicated winter tires a must in CT with a Charger. Being that it is a RWD, be sure to add some weight (sand/kitty litter) in trunk over the drive wheels. It will help you to get going and if you get stuck, you can always lay down the sand/kitty litter.

Be light on the pedals, think ahead, smooth braking and give yourself more room than you think you need.


EDIT: I just had Firestone Winterforce tires installed yesterday, so I have no winter driving reviews yet, but they are less expensive and should be fine for your needs. Don't need a speed rated Blizzak on your Charger
 
#16 ·
Welcome to the forums. For starters, good for you to realize that you don't have the knowledge/experience and have sought help here.
Better safe than sorry ;)

All of the suggestions so far are good ones. I am from CT originally and drove through 8 winters there from when I was first licensed until I moved away. I also use to drive I-84 all the time between Southbury and Hartford (full-time EMT in Waterbury).

Where in CT are you exactly? Those not familiar may not realize that CT is by no means flat, and the odds of encountering inclines and hills in snow and icy conditions are better than flat, level roads. Also, they may not realize that CT has no county government and all the 169 towns are responsible for clearing their own roads (State number routes excluded). Many do it poorly.
I live in Danbury (Exit 6) and drive east on I84 towards Newtown (Exit 12). I agree, the roads are not flat and i am not happy to learn that the maintainence is poor during winter.

I would consider dedicated winter tires a must in CT with a Charger. Being that it is a RWD, be sure to add some weight (sand/kitty litter) in trunk over the drive wheels. It will help you to get going and if you get stuck, you can always lay down the sand/kitty litter.
What is kitty litter?
What do you mean by 'lay down' the sand/kitty litter?

EDIT: I just had Firestone Winterforce tires installed yesterday, so I have no winter driving reviews yet, but they are less expensive and should be fine for your needs. Don't need a speed rated Blizzak on your Charger
Now that is what i wanted to read. Somebody who could guage my needs and provide budget friendly advice. I'll look into them, thanks! :)
 
#10 ·
I have to amend my earlier statements just a bit and reflect on some very intelligent recommendations from Chargermaster, coldsteel and michiganpat. Since you're brand new to snow driving, winter tires are likely a better choice for you. I also like the idea of taking a winter driving course since that will help familiarize you with the way the car will handle in inclement conditions.

For people like Ddaddy and I, who are very experienced and old school when it comes to snow driving we can afford to run without winter tires but for you I would recommend a "better safe than sorry" methodology when approaching winter driving.

Either way, you've received some great advice and we all hope that it helps you.
 
#18 ·
I swear by sandbags. Putting them in your trunk really helps. I have 3 x 20lb bags. Weight is weight. Doesn't have to be sand.

Winter weather is more than just snow. My sister-IL wrecked her Liberty on black ice last year. Just because you don't see snow doesn't mean there's no danger.

If you have a desk job ask your boss if you can telecommute when its bad. Just remote in and connect from home.

I'm fortunate enough to have Delta Sonic car wash. I pay $18/month for unlimited washes. I wash my car at least twice a week and it shows.

Driving in snow just takes practice. You'll figure out:
  • If you brake and turn at the same time, your car could continue to slide forward until you take your foot off the brake.
  • Try to stay in the tracks of other cars ahead of you where there's less snow. Sometimes the far left lanes are not plowed well.
  • If you need to change lanes, wait for tracks from someone making the same lane change. Take your foot off the gas and take your time switching lanes. Sudden lane changes will send you off to the ditch.
  • Never ever try reverse if sliding forward. That will not help.
  • If your back end starts sliding to left or right take your foot off gas and slowly steer into the direction of the slip. It should straighten right out. This is a sign you are going too fast for conditions. Don't panic and cut wheel hard over as this could send you into a spin.
  • Don't let your windshield washer fluid get low. You'll need it when washing salt spray off your windshield to see. Some mornings I wash 5-6 times on the way to work! Never use water for washer fluid like they do in the south.
  • Ultimately it comes down to tires. If you slide too much invest in a new set.
Me, personally: I would just spend the money on getting a higher end pair of All season tires you can enjoy all year round. I went with Goodyear Assurance ComforTred Touring tires. They have a 80k tread warranty and do just fine in snow. I took advantage of Goodyear's $160 rebate for four of them. Winter tires might be overkill for CT IMO.
 
#19 ·
Based on all the suggestions and feedback, i've made up my mind to buy
winter tires and not all season tires.

Please advice on the following:
1. Are new tires really worth it, considering the amount of money i'll be investing, for use over the next 6 months only? Can i stock them after winter is over and get them back on for the next season? How many seasons would they last?

2. If yes, what are the most budget friendly recommendations? For instance, Firestone Winterforce over Bridgestone Blizzak... What do you think of this one? http://winter-tires.pmctire.com/enw...inter-claw-extreme-grip-215-65r17-99t-sl.tire

3. If i were to go for used tires, How much are they worth spending for? If i am spending $350 for a set of used tires, i'd rather get a set of new tires for $500. Apart from the tread and age, what other factors do i need to look into?

4. Do i buy tires and get them on the existing rims, or buy tires with rims for easy chage over? Will the extra set of rims be additional maintainence? Rusting and other issues?

5. What are the things to be taken care of, after repalcing the tires? Alignment, balancing etc.

6. Can the spare tires work as replacements for sand bags in the trunk?

7. How to place sand bags in the trunk (in a protective cover?) to avoid sand spill?

8. How to store the spare set of tires when not in use? (I don't have a garage, just a patio)

9. Specific winter care for the car itself?

Thanks again!
 
#21 ·
Based on all the suggestions and feedback, i've made up my mind to buy
winter tires and not all season tires.

Please advice on the following:
1. Are new tires really worth it, considering the amount of money i'll be investing, for use over the next 6 months only? Can i stock them after winter is over and get them back on for the next season? How many seasons would they last?

You can store the tires until the next season and use them year after year. The life of the tire will be determined by the miles you drive each season. Most new winter tires can be used for up to 10 years without the rubber dry-rotting so you will likely wear them out long before they age to that point.

2. If yes, what are the most budget friendly recommendations? For instance, Firestone Winterforce over Bridgestone Blizzak... What do you think of this one? http://winter-tires.pmctire.com/enw...inter-claw-extreme-grip-215-65r17-99t-sl.tire

There are many recommendations on the forum if you search a little.

3. If i were to go for used tires, How much are they worth spending for? If i am spending $350 for a set of used tires, i'd rather get a set of new tires for $500. Apart from the tread and age, what other factors do i need to look into?

Used tires should be evaluated for tread depth, rubber condition and age. Otherwise, they can be a good choice if you find the right deal.

4. Do i buy tires and get them on the existing rims, or buy tires with rims for easy chage over? Will the extra set of rims be additional maintainence? Rusting and other issues?

You can swap the winter tires for your current tires and swap them back after the season is over, but most members choose to buy a second inexpensive set of wheels to keep the winter tires mounted on to make the change over each season easier.

5. What are the things to be taken care of, after repalcing the tires? Alignment, balancing etc.

The tires should be maintained with balancing and the car alignment for the vehicle and should be done on it's own schedule regardless of swapping tires. It's not required to re-align for a tire swap.

6. Can the spare tires work as replacements for sand bags in the trunk?

They can, but it's a lot of space lost in the trunk and it's hard to get more than one in there. A single tire and wheel combo typically weighs between 40-50 lbs. Sand would be a better choice.

7. How to place sand bags in the trunk (in a protective cover?) to avoid sand spill?

I would recommend filling 2-5 gal plastic containers with the sand (like used kittly litter jugs with a screw-cap) or even 1 gallon milk jugs can work. No leaks and easily re-arranged in the trunk as needed. 5 gal paint pails can also work well.

8. How to store the spare set of tires when not in use? (I don't have a garage, just a patio)

Get a patio tire garage like this..

http://www.amazon.com/Flagline-Tire-Storage-Garage/dp/B000F6V9MW.


9. Specific winter care for the car itself?

Make sure your coolant is good and will protect to the temps you expect to see. Keep the winshield washer fluid full and consider a de-icing type like Prestone than melts ice quickly. Keep a least one spare container of washer fluid in the trunk. It will add ballast and always be there if you ever run out under the hood. Replace your wiper blades before and after each winter season. Winter wiper blades are a good idea too.

Thanks again!
Hope this helps! :)
 
#20 ·
I bought my first set for my 09' and slide down a hilly drive way at work. (I did stop at the bottom of the hill)
Try to avoid turning sharply in any direct, take the turns a little more gradually.

Most important: avoid the desire to jam on the brakes to stop: take your foot off of the gas instead. Down shift whenever possible to reduce your speed.
 
#26 ·
Danbury had nearly 9 inches of snow last night in the first winter storm of the season.

Yashkapoor let us know how you made out.
 
#29 ·
I think one of the most important things is, to factor in the extra time it takes to drive somewhere in bad conditions. You obviously have to drive slower, so leave 10, 15, even 20 minutes earlier than you normally would, so you know you have time to take your time. By which I mean you don't get to a spot that you think you can do the speed limit because you feel comfortable, when you really should be driving slower.
Also, don't drive defensively. My main concern in bad weather is other drivers. I'm going to drive when and where I know I can. If I get in an accident, it will most likely be someone elses fault. So don't swerve out of someone elses way and end up in a ditch, because they will most likely keep driving, and you'll end up paying the damages yourself. Other than that, the traction control and ABS in our cars work great! I haven't experienced it yet in my Charger, but in my SE Magnum it was amazing in snow. Pretty much like driving on dry pavement, just really, really slow.

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#33 ·
I think one of the most important things is, to factor in the extra time it takes to drive somewhere in bad conditions. You obviously have to drive slower, so leave 10, 15, even 20 minutes earlier than you normally would, so you know you have time to take your time. By which I mean you don't get to a spot that you think you can do the speed limit because you feel comfortable, when you really should be driving slower.
This is a leaf that i am going to add to my book for sure. Leave 30 minutes early. I have nothing to loose! ;)

Also, don't drive defensively. My main concern in bad weather is other drivers. I'm going to drive when and where I know I can. If I get in an accident, it will most likely be someone elses fault.
Hope i don't become the 'someone else' in this context :cowsmile:

Many thanks for your advice :)
 
#34 ·
Didn't read thru ALL the pages, but lots of good advice for you.
Best one is take your car to the empty parking lot first snow and run the crap out of it. Learn how it reacts to different inputs. Purposely put it sideways and figure out how to recover. Do donuts, practice turning, stopping, starting, etc.
Regarding winter tires if you're on a budget, find the most reasonably priced all season tires (I pretty much only buy used takoff tires for all my vehicles off Craigslist) with the best tread pattern, open tread design, you can find.
Then get them siped. New tires are usually about $10/tire used tires are $15-20/tire due to it beingharder on the blades with used tiers that may have sand/rocks embedded in them.
If you get all season tires fully siped they will be just as good as a set of expensive dedicated snow tires, yet will last a bit longer usually.
The reason winter tires grip better besides a soft tread compound is all the "sipes" or cuts in the tread. Makes the tread softer and move more with more "biting" edges. You can pay a premium to buy a tire that is molded that way (snow tire) or you can slice up a cheap all season tire and save money.
 
#36 ·
Best one is take your car to the empty parking lot first snow and run the crap out of it. Learn how it reacts to different inputs. Purposely put it sideways and figure out how to recover. Do donuts, practice turning, stopping, starting, etc.
This is VERY good advice! I did this when I first learned to drive in high school, but only because it was a blast. But then I realized it does teach you how your car handles in the snow and you are better off for having done it.
Regarding winter tires if you're on a budget, find the most reasonably priced all season tires (I pretty much only buy used takoff tires for all my vehicles off Craigslist) with the best tread pattern, open tread design, you can find. Then get them siped. New tires are usually about $10/tire used tires are $15 20/tire due to it beingharder on the blades with used tiers that may have sand/rocks embedded in them.
Discount Tires used to sipe tires. I wonder if they still offer that service. That is definitely worthwhile for those who are unable to afford new winter tires. The tires themselves aren't so bad moneywise, but then add in the shipping and TPMS!

The factory tires suck in the winter. If you can afford different tires get them.
I have read the same about the stock Michelins on my 2012 R/T. So I ordered some Blizzak DM-V1s and some 18" steelies. Just waiting on the rims to get them installed.
If buying a second set of rims and tires just know that you will need to have the TPMS sensors installed in the new rims. Which adds quite a bit to the cost.
That and the shipping really add to the cost of the tires. No local tire stores stock good winter tires in Indy! The local stores will price match Tire Rack, but they include the cost of shipping in the price too, so it's a wash.

In my experience, and Dodge may have "fixed" it in the newer generation, but when taking off from a stop, especially if going uphill I push the ESP button to turn it off. There have been times where the car cut all power to the tires because it sensed wheel spin. I had the gas pedal to the floor and the wheels weren't even spinning leaving me sitting in one spot. Turned off the ESP to allow the tires to spin and got going no problems. Once I got moving turned ESP back on. That was my normal operation with the car after that.
That is not unique to the Charger and it is totally normal. My G8 GT did the same thing. In the owners manual it does recommend turning off the traction control if you get stuck. Once I got the winter tires I rarely got stuck though.

GTO_04
 
#35 ·
My take on this with my 2008 Charger with the 3.5L.

The factory tires suck in the winter. If you can afford different tires get them. We ran one winter on the stock continentals and had to replace a front fascia after the winter. Was also the first winter of driving a RWD vehicle for my wife who grew up in Cali. After the first snow where she broke the fascia i took her out to an empty parking lot to let her learn how the car reacts.

After that first winter, and the following summer the stock tires were shot. replaced them with BFG Radial T/A Spec and it was a night and day difference in the snow. Had absolutely no problems in the snow with the BFGs even with them being a wider tire than stock.

If buying a second set of rims and tires just know that you will need to have the TPMS sensors installed in the new rims. Which adds quite a bit to the cost.

As mentioned, go slow and make no sudden changes in speed or direction. Everything needs to be deliberate and smooth. Drive like you have an raw egg between your foot and the pedals and you don't want to break it.

In my experience, and Dodge may have "fixed" it in the newer generation, but when taking off from a stop, especially if going uphill I push the ESP button to turn it off. There have been times where the car cut all power to the tires because it sensed wheel spin. I had the gas pedal to the floor and the wheels weren't even spinning leaving me sitting in one spot. Turned off the ESP to allow the tires to spin and got going no problems. Once I got moving turned ESP back on. That was my normal operation with the car after that.

Weight in the rear is up to you. I ran a single 75lb "tube" of sand in my car for the extra weight and as mentioned, if needed it was available to be put down on the road for extra traction if I ever got stuck.
 
#37 ·
This is the first snow fall of the season. I have summer performance tires on right now and they are working but I would suggest getting winters. If you have the money to do it then your safety is always worth the price of driving smart.

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#39 ·
Snow tires won't help on ice... nor will AWD. They will help with traction, but I was able to get around in North Dakota with my mustang on ZR tires :eek: I finally got all season performance tires for her, but she was still able to get around on the ZRs once I got her out of the parking lots lol. It does take a bit of skill to operate in snow states with rear wheel drive cars, but I had plenty of skid pad training to deal with that ;)

You shouldn't have any problem with the standard tires... so long as you get used to winter driving conditions.
 
#41 ·
Agreed. Last winter my car's BAS/ESP system got really tempermental with me on my factory tires. Bought a set of P225/60R18 Firestone Winterforce for it and I was out having a blast after snow falls on unplowed and un-traveled roads with 2 1/2+inches of snow ontop of ice and frozen slush from days prior. My inferno/blaze red car looked like a Stone White by the time I returned to base >=)

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#42 · (Edited)
Wow, good to see lots of replies here.

Now, I'll add to the list, and give my $.02. FWIW I live and work in the snow belt (and I've been here my whole life), so snow driving is something I do A LOT of.

......1. Do i actually need snow tires? I've been told, i don't actually need snow tires if i am not going to drive in more than 2 inches of snow!....
Snow or Winter tires (the difference has already been covered) are a great idea. Do you NEED them? No, but they do help. I have my patrol car switched to snow tires every year, and I've got many years of snow driving experience. Why not take advantage of technology that's there. Someone designed something that will help, it's pretty arrogant to think you're above the technology and think that it can't help you, regardless of how much experience you have. Maybe a better tire can prevent the experienced driver from having to call on that experience.... that is safer, whether they like it or not.
......2. If yes, Can i go for used ones? How to make a choice?.....
Yes, used snow/winter tires are fine. Just make sure they aren't dry rotted, or worn out.
......4. A lot of people recommended adding weight to the rear, by putting sand bags in the trunk. Some have suggested against it. How does it matter?.......
This isn't as important as it was years ago. What nobody has done is tell you WHY it's recommended. The whole point in adding weight to the trunk (or bed of a truck) is to put weight on the drive tires. All this does is get you rolling when you'd be stuck spinning your tires. The Charger is a very well balanced car and this isn't really an issue like it is with a truck. Of course that said, a bag of sand or litter is nice because it gives you something you can throw on the ground for traction if you need it, and really all it hurts is a slight loss in fuel efficiency by adding extra weight. It can't hurt mileage that much, it's not like you're adding several hundred pounds to the car.
......
And last - Any tips regarding driving itself? Dos and Don'ts...
The biggest tip, which several people have already mentioned is SLOW DOWN. The number 1 way to avoid a crash in poor road conditions is to slow down. Give yourself time to react, and to make subtle changes in the driving inputs. Sudden movements is what causes you to loose control. Drive slow, brake easy, steer gentle.

As for tips.
Keep in mind that sliding tires are useless. If you're sliding, cutting the wheel is doing absolutely nothing at all to improve your situation. As odd as it sounds, straighten the wheels back out into the direction your moving so they start to ROLL again. Then you can gently turn them and the car will turn instead of continuing to slide straight.

In a related issue. If you're sliding toward an object (tree, ditch, car, etc) don't stare it down. I know it's hard to do, but look where you WANT to go, not at what you don't want to hit. The car will go where you are looking (because you will re-actively steer it there), so staring at that ditch will usually put you right in it. How do you know where to steer the car if your not looking there.

Now to reply to what the others have said...
......1. Lane transitions are the most dangerous part of snow driving since accumulated slush and snow can force the tire to lose contact as you change lanes. If you're new to snow driving, try to stay in the same lane on your commute.....
Very solid advise. I've handled more crashes that result from people getting caught up in slush during a lane change than I can even possibly remember.
......2. Never exceed your own personal limits. It's OK to feel uncomfortable if you've never driven in snow before but if it the thought makes you queasy, you're better off letting someone else drive you.....
Yes nervous is fine, panicked is not. If you're nervous you'll be cautious, if you're panicked you'll overreact. Ease into it. Just like riding a bicycle you weren't flying down the street on day one, you have to slowly learn how it feels, and what you can/can't do. Take your time, and work within you personal limits and comfort zone.
......3. Leave plenty of stopping distancein front of you in case you need to stop suddenly due to an obstacle or slow moving traffic......
YES YES YES!!!!!! Following too close, is the #1 cause for crashes in the snow. Leave enough room to safely react, and then leave 50% more room than that. Do this and you'll drive all winter long with no problems.
......4. Practice. No really, I mean this. If you can take your car to an empty parking lot with a bit of snowfall this will give you a great idea as to how it handles and what the limits are. Go 15 miles and hour and slam on the brakes to see what happens. It's a great way to understand when the car is simply wagging the rear and when it's at the limit for traction.......
Again, YES. I was going to make this very recommendation. Now I'm not saying to play in a parking lot. I'm saying honestly go practice. Find a big open empty lot, and just drive around in it. Turn, brake, stop, start, etc. Drive straight for a bit then make a "lane change" so you can feel what the car feels like when shifting to a parallel lane. Make a few "evasive" maneuvers (abrupt turn, hard brake, etc) so you know what it will feel like, and how the car will react.
Sliding around the parking lot at wide open throttle is NOT practice. The whole point in this exercise is to learn how to keep the tires rolling, not sliding. Playing in a parking lot is a good way to get a ticket, so don't mistake practice for screwing around.
......5. As much as possible, try to keep moving and avoid stopping in deep snow. If you do need to start from a stop, do so gently to avoid as much wheelspin as possible. Traction control will be a big help here........
Yes, momentum is your friend in deep snow. If you have to stop (such as a stop sign, traffic light, traffic, etc) ease into the throttle. Wheel spin will make a patch of ice that you'll be good and stuck on.
......More than anything else, relax and take your time. Don't let anyone pressure you and don't feel rushed. Once you understand your limits and those of your car, you'll be fine.....
Yeah, people will get right on your bumper regardless of how fast/slow you drive. Don't let them pressure you into driving faster than you are comfortable with or more importantly, faster than is safe. If they get all pissed off because you're driving slow and safe, too bad for them. They aren't paying your damages, ticket, or medical bills if you crash, so don't let them dictate how you drive.

.......I would add one old trick I've always used...when trying to stop or turn in extremely slippery conditions, put the tranny in neutral to take the power off the wheels. It will help to make the stops and turns far more easily controlled, and after you complete the turn or stop, put it back in to drive to regain power.......
Ha ha. You're showing your age here Ddaddy. This is a trick we used back in the days before traction control, limited slip, and with big V8's. Ha ha. Not so much an issue these days, as the car automatically limits power to the tires when the slip, but still a good trick. The only down side I see to this is with the shifter on the new 8 spd transmission. I like it but without a position for each gear (you just push the lever forward or back) you could pass neutral and find reverse. EEK!!!
Is traction control the same as ABS?
Is traction control activated when required or is the something i have to look into each time i drive?......
No traction control and ABS are two different things. Traction control will limit the amount of power to the tires to prevent wheel spin, where ABS (Antilock Braking System) is designed to prevent the tires from locking when braking. Basically they "pulse" the brakes like they used to teach people to do, only they do it much faster than we ever could. That is the really quick jackhammering kind of noise you'll hear, and feel on your brake pedal, when you jam the brakes in a slippery situation.

What is kitty litter?
What do you mean by 'lay down' the sand/kitty litter?........
Kitty litter, is basically clay. It's the bag (or bucket) of stuff you pour into the litter box for a cat to do their business in. It absorbs moisture. It's really no different than a bag of oil dry, but tends to be cheaper.

.......If you need to change lanes, wait for tracks from someone making the same lane change. Take your foot off the gas and take your time switching lanes. Sudden lane changes will send you off to the ditch.......
Well put. Make everything smooth and easy when driving in snow/slush.
......Never ever try reverse if sliding forward. That will not help.......
Yes. If you don't have enough traction for a stopped tire to grip, a tire spinning the opposite direction is getting no more grip that the stopped/sliding tire was. It's a waste of effort, eliminate your ability to recover and get rolling if you do regain traction.
......If your back end starts sliding to left or right take your foot off gas and slowly steer into the direction of the slip. It should straighten right out. This is a sign you are going too fast for conditions......
Again, well put.
......Don't let your windshield washer fluid get low. You'll need it when washing salt spray off your windshield to see. Some mornings I wash 5-6 times on the way to work! Never use water for washer fluid like they do in the south.......
YES!!!! Keep the windshield clear so you can see. On the interstate you'll get road spray on it very quickly and salt will cloud your view very quickly. Washer fluid is your friend. Also as noted, water would be bad because it will freeze and probably brake you resivoir, spray nozzle, etc.
.......Do i buy tires and get them on the existing rims, or buy tires with rims for easy chage over? Will the extra set of rims be additional maintainence? Rusting and other issues?......
The benefit of having an extra set of rims/tires for winter, is that you can change them quickly and easily yourself every season, plus you don't have to worry about salt on your "good" rims.

.......Best one is take your car to the empty parking lot first snow and run the crap out of it. Learn how it reacts to different inputs. Purposely put it sideways and figure out how to recover. Do donuts, practice turning, stopping, starting, etc.......
As previously mentioned, I agree with going to a parking lot and actually practicing. Doing donuts is NOT practice. Be sensible, and simulate how you would drive on the road. The point is to learn how it reacts on the road, not to see how many circles you can spin, or how tight you can make them. That's good fun, but minimally educational, and at risk for a ticket.
 
#44 ·
A BIG Thank You

Belated Christmas to all the forum members and a I wish you a Happy New year in advance.

Wanted to thank everyone for their kind and experienced words of advice. New England is white washed (literally) and i've driven in snow a few times now. Each day is a new experience and I am getting confident by the day. Most of what you folks have said here, set an expectation in my head of what to anticipate when driving in snow...

The winter's been pleasant so far, hope i can finish it off without a scratch and come back to the forum for some advice on wheels for summer-tires :driving:

Again, many thanks to the forum members and new year greetings in advance :beer_yum:
 
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