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5.7 Hemi Underpowered?

19K views 38 replies 19 participants last post by  dead_again 
#1 ·
I wasn't sure where to put this but this seemed as close as I could think of.

I have been wondering...

When you compare the 2015 5.7 Hemi to the 5.0 in the 2015 Mustang and the 6.2 found in the Camaro it seems like there is a noticable gap in HP ratings.

5.7 Hemi = 385
6.2 Canaro = 425
5.0 Mustang = 436

This is just the base V8, I'm not talking about high end track cars SRT, ZL1 Camaro, or Cobra. The high end cars seem more comparable.

Anyone know why or is it just because?
 
#2 ·
5.7 is 92% of 6.2, and 385 is 91% of 425, so that seems normal to me. I'm really surprised that the little 5.0 puts out that much, that's quite impressive. They must just beef it up a lot more with the intake, cam, heads, headers/exhaust, etc.... I knew they were faster than the RT's but I just assumed it was bc they're so much lighter.
 
#4 ·
The 5.0 is a 4 valve DOHC motor. This allows for a lot more advanced modern techniques to be applied. The 5.7 is an older motor design, 2 valves per cylinder engine. For thought, The Pentastar is also a DOHC motor so the power per unit displacement is also higher than that of the 5.7 and more in line with the 5.0 motor.

If chrysler decided to make a "V8" pentastar, Ford and GM would be in a lot of trouble. It's not so easy however, and Chrysler will most likely consider supercharging as a replacement for displacement on their high end vehicles. Fuel economy is not cheap.
 
#5 ·
I agree! The automakers are staring down 37.5 mpg CAFE next year and 45 mpg by 2020. Their focus is rabid reduction in weight and significant increases in fuel economy! 0w8 and 0w16 weight oils are coming along with electric drive by wire steering, start/stop technology and smaller engines and smaller/lighter car platforms. They did their duty with the Hellcat....maybe that will be their last hurrah?

Ford has been talking of late to abandon the V8 for the Ecoboost 2.7L and 3.5L. However they did up the hp on the 5.0 in the trucks to 385 hp from 350. So time will tell.;)

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 
#6 ·
My girlfriend's 2015 Mustang GT would leave my 2010 5.7 Challenger in the dust. 445 HP vs 375 HP and less weight. I looked at the Challenger as more of a touring car than a stoplight racer. More room, better ride (by quite a bit) and more comfortable. But I always felt the Challenger was kinda slow.

I don't think V8s will go away in the near future, but I do believe they will become more scarce and pricier. It costs millions of dollars to develop and certify a new engine, so the OEMs try to milk their existing engines for as long as they can. I don't see a lot of time and money being spent on future V8s, with exceptions such as SRT products. The Hellcat is a last hurrah, it can't last past the current Charger/Challenger body platform. Future Chargers/Challengers will be smaller and lighter and developed with V6 powertrains in mind. Maybe, just maybe, SRT versions will have a V8, time will tell.

The future is not bleak for performance cars, just different. Look at Tesla. Who would ever have thought an electric car could be that fast?
 
#8 ·
Comparing it to the other engines, the HEMI has the disadvantage. It's based on an old design and uses a very simple design. If they decided to redesign it, it would be a beast. I'm sure the 5.7 would be up in the mid-400s.
 
#9 ·
The world is talking as though CAFE can't be repealed and/or combated and as though these lobbyists don't have large, large pockets. I am almost willing to bet my education in politics and my experience in the legal field that you'll see modifications to the standards, specifically once the presidential election has concluded.
 
#10 ·
I suspect you are correct. I also think that once the Auto Industry has demonstrated due diligence in attempting to reach these lofty CAFE standards goals that they will have a greater ability to lobby for change and show that the requirements are unreasonably onerous. They may also be able to show how these requirements adversely impact vehicle pricing for consumers and significantly reduce competiveness of the US Auto Industry within the US and possibly globally.
 
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#12 ·
Even with the HEMI down on power you get a much better car around it vs the crap-tastic Camaro and a better noise/comfort vs the Mustang. I really think they should do a Pentastar V8, the V6 alone is awesome. Maybe twin turbo or supercharge the V6 as an alternative.

Oh and CAFE requirements can kiss my fat ass. If politicians actually legitimately cared about things like fuel efficiency and emissions then they would go after what really causes the most problems in this area (other than cows)--that being container ships and airplanes.
 
#14 ·
Don't even get me started on airplanes.. I'm an aircraft maintainer. I could go on a huge rant about how these things do infinitely more environmental damage than any of our cars ever will.
 
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#13 ·
Cow emissions could be the next wave of renewable energy by simultaneously providing a source of renewable energy and reducing greenhouse gasses in the process.

Cows produce up to 25% of all methane emissions, and methane is a particularly potent greenhouse gas. The project from Argentina's National Institute of Agricultural Technology is an intriguing proof-of-concept study. Researchers put plastic backpacks on cows, then inserted tubes into their rumens (their biggest digestive tract). They extracted the methane—about 300 liters a day. That's enough to run a car, or a fridge for 24 hours. while keeping the greenhouse gases from entering the atmosphere...




Now, let me have my V8 engine as a trade-off!
 

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#17 ·
as far as the power numbers, HP is a function of torque and RPM....look at the RPM of each HP rating, and also look at the torque output. basically the 5liter is tuned to higher torque at a higher RPM to get the bigger HP number.

torque is basically a function of displacement. the most efficient race engines make about 1.4 lb-ft of torque per CID (or 85 lb-ft/L)....most street engines are more in the .8-1lb-ft per CID range....
 
#21 ·
It's still a good sign that Mopar has the 6.1L and 6.4L engines in the 1.2 lb-ft per CID range. Even more encouraging is the Hellcat in the 1.7 lb-ft per CID range.

There is still Muscle Car life breathing in the industry. It may die tomorrow...but not today!
 
#18 · (Edited)
{political commentary deleted by staff}

Sorry, didn't think it was that political. Things aren't going to be changed easily on the standards for sure!

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 
#19 ·
#20 · (Edited)
Only if people forget the Forum rules.

Folks just need to remember that the rules don't permit political discussion.

We can discuss Government and laws, just not politics as related to those topics. Global warming is off-limits too. Politics of Global Warming is a double off-limits.

We can debate CAFE standards and the future of V8 engines all day long. :)

Oh yeah, and debate about the appropriateness of the Forum rules that define those limits won't fly either. ;)
 
#24 ·
You gotta look at it this way, you can have all you HP in the world, but it means nothing if you can't effectively get it to the ground. Yes, our chargers come with HEMIs, but it is a 4 door sedan that replaced the intrepid (thankfully). So I just can't see dodge putting huge #'s in the R/T when they have the SRTs for that, because I can only imagine all complaints dodge would when the average Joe crashes their 400+ HP charger while going to get groceries.
 
#35 ·
Forum moderators are a little too ansy pansy (politically correct if that's permitted). I agree that the bureaucrats now in place will work to continue some, IMHO, dumb policies, as many were probably hired more for their political views than their technical ability, but if there are new marching orders from the top, it might restore some sanity. If this is too political, maybe I need to find another forum that is unafraid to discuss bureaucratic ramifications on car design.
 
#37 ·
The R/T competes against the Taurus and Impala/LaCrosse, and the 5.7 fills that slot very well. The SHO costs $45-46K which is SRT8 territory pricewise. GM has no answer to the R/T. The best GM has to offer in this class and price range is a low performance six banger as their top engine but at R/T pricing. The G8 GT would have been a good comparison with the 6.0L, but GM decided to abandon that market. For the market it competes in, moderately priced V8 powered RWD sedans, the 5.7 is not underpowered, as a matter of fact it doesn't have much competition.

Maybe we should compare dollars per HP.

GTO_04
 
#38 ·
Yup, I wish GM would make a Chevy SS with the 6.0 like on the police Caprice to line up with the R/T and lower the SS price from pretty much SRT levels back down to the 30k ranges. They could use the back in the day naming style like in the Chevelle SS which you could get a 396 or 454 but it would still be a Chevelle SS. Like you said though they abandoned the market and the future of the current SS doesn't look good either...so the Charger might have the domestic full size V8 sedan market all to itself here again in a year or two which is too bad because I dig all the current US V8 offerings and competition keeps things fresh and interesting.
 
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