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Push Button Start Class-Action Lawsuit

12K views 30 replies 18 participants last post by  USponycar 
#1 ·
I love my Push Button Start in my 13 Charger. In fact, I will never buy another car with out it. However, with that said, there is one thing that I don't like about it. If you forget to turn off your car, it doesn't turn off by itself, even when my charger will tell me that my KEY FOB is not in range. I personally have done this a few times, and I am glad I didn't do this while I put my vehicle in my garage, like some unfortunate people have done (and paid the price 13-deaths). However, I did find my gas tank with less gas in it because of it. It's amazing, that with all the technology that exists today and even in the past, that there could not have been some kind of timer put on the car that when the vehicle realizes that the KEY FOB was not in distance of the vehicle and it was running, to turn it off, if safe to do so (in park). I feel bad for the people that have lost their lives to something that could have been easily programmed into these cars with PUSH BUTTON START. My guess, is that there is some limitation in existing vehicles that would prevent a auto shutdown from being added to our vehicles with Push Button Start, but I would like to see one as part of the settlement with this Class Action Lawsuit.

Here is the link to an article about the Class Action Lawsuit: http://consumerist.com/2015/08/27/class-action-lawsuit-claims-10-automakers-hid-keyless-ignition-carbon-monoxide-dangers-that-led-to-13-deaths/
 
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#3 ·
Yeah it's nice being to jump out and get something & keep the car running...it does cut off the engine if someone tries to drive away without the key fob. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but my god how stupid can you be to not shut off your car when you park it?? It's not like we have silent electric cars...it's obvious when it's running (even more so for the Hemi folks...).

If you're too lazy to punch a button when getting out of your car...perhaps you don't need to drive a car on public roads...
 
#4 · (Edited)
It's not about being LAZY, but more about...Oh, my Keys are in my pocket, car is off.

As for our HEMI Engines, at idle mine is really quiet and smooth, some times I wonder if it is even running.


Push Button Start is fairly new to EVERY DAY cars. Everyone is use to the PUT KEY IN, TURN CLOCK WISE TO START, TURN COUNTER-CLOCK WISE TO SHUT OFF, it's been like that for decades. Now, Push Button Start, push to start your car. Push to stop. I have been driving for 30+ years and of those, only 2 with Push Button Start...some times, it takes more then 2 years to teach an old dog new tricks. Then think about these people who have been driving for 60 or 70 years, things like that happen and that is why there needs to be extra precautions when it comes to push button start/stop.

In any case, I figured Push Button Start would be more evolved then it is, but I guess not.
 
#5 ·
I can see where Zander is coming from but I can also understand forgetting to push the button to turn the car off. New enough tech that we'll have to adapt to. That being said, whenever I drive a push button car I still reach for the keys when I get out... So the ones forgetting to turn the car off are doubly forgetting
 
#6 ·
I dunno...I've been driving the new Charger (An '11 and a '13) and not once have I left the thing running when I didn't want to. Just how smart do we have to be to shut off something when we're done with it? How can you blame a manufacturer for not taking responsibility for your own actions? You stop the car, you press the button, you're done.

To me that's like the woman to who got burned because she spilled coffee on her self and sued Micky D's because the cup wasn't marked with warning telling her it was hot.
 
#7 ·
Love this quote.

"Now I tend to fall more on the consumer protection side of things, but even this one seems absurd to me. These people couldn’t tell that their cars weren’t off? Why did they think their cars would turn off automatically if they just walked away with the fob? Why would you ever walk away knowing your car was idling and wasting gas, especially running in your garage?"

http://jalopnik.com/the-next-big-warning-label-coming-to-your-car-1726897599
 
#8 ·
The main issue with programming the car to shut down when the fob is "not detected" is safety.

Imagine if the car lost communication with the fob when you are driving and it decided to shut the car down. Or imagine if you walked away to talk to your neighbor leaving a baby in the car with it running on a hot day and it shut down turning off the AC. Or imagine a hundred other scenarios where you wouldn't want the car to automatically turn off when the fob isn't detected while in park.

The technology isn't good enough yet to be able to compensate for a signal loss and decide the correct response in all situations and still "fail safe" such that it doesn't leave you and/or you occupants in a bad or dangerous situation. That's why it relies on YOU making the appropriate decision by simply pressing a button.

The problem as I see it is that the push button provides just enough additional convenience to make some folks lazy enough to forget their responsibility for the operation of the car.

Back in the day when you only had a key to turn the car on and off and needed the key to lock the car from the outside, the entire responsibility was on you and no part of the car assumed any of it for you. It was a priority to remember what you needed to do because none of it was going to be done for you.

Now, part of the responsibility is assumed by the car and the remaining part is up to the operator. Unfortunately, there is a small group of people that can't seem to take "partial" responsibility for the operation of the car and they mindlessly default to taking none at all.
 
#9 ·
It's also not a new phenomenon for this kind of "partial responsibility" technology to create issues for some users.

In the early 60s, GM had an ignition system that allowed the operator to remove the ignition key while the car was running so that they could access the trunk with their key. This required them to remember to re-insert the key in the ignition when they were done.

Many folks had a difficult time with the system and often drove around with their keys hanging out of the trunk lock and thinking that they had lost their keys when they parked and couldn't turn off the car since there was no key in the ignition. They would often walk away leaving the car running since they couldn't figure out how to shut it off and didn't think to look for their keys hanging from the trunk lock.

GM later replaced the system on newer models with one the "locked" the key in the ignition while it was in the "start/run" position to keep this from happening.

This issue was further demonstrated when manufacturers allowed operators to lock the car by pressing down the lock button and closing the door rather than using the key on the outside to do it. Countless folks proceeded to lock their keys in the car in the decades that followed.
 
#10 ·
My wife's electric hybrid doesn't make a lot of noise with the ignition "on". If you happen to walk away with the keys in your pocket, it honks the horn twice. Worst case is if for some reason the keys are left in the car.

DD is correct, it's a safety issue to have the car just shut off.
 
#11 ·
I get everyone's point about safety and responsibility. I also get that it is my responsibility to make sure I turn off my car, I get that. I am all for taking responsibility for my actions. If fact, the first day I bought my car, I looked up and down the owners manual and in the car's settings to see if it had some kind of auto shut off. There was none. So, I did my due diligence, however, being human, I make mistakes, I forgot to turn off my car (twice that I can remember). Also, I didn't seek Class Action Lawsuit because I wasted gas either. However, sad for the 13 people who are dead because they made this mistake. A mistake that could have been easily avoided. Yes, they had a responsibility, but so did the manufacture of the vehicle to make sure that these people were safe also. If the manufacture is not responsible for the safety in our vehicles, why have seat belts, air bags, etc. You are right, LAWS, because someone DIED w/out them. And this will probably turn into a LAW that requires safety features that exist in TODAYS push button cars that didn't exist in cars just a year or 2 older.

I guess my point, if you read the article, that todays cars with Push Button Start have an Auto Off feature, so why not in my car? This seemed like a no brainer, but I guess we had to wait for someone to DIE to fix something that seemed so TRIVIAL.

And for all those who are perfect and never forget anything, thanks for point out how little we are for forgetting something. Suppose you never forgot where you parked you car in a busy shopping center? Must be nice to be perfect.
 
#12 ·
From a programming standpoint, this would be very easy to address. We would just need to update the computer on the vehicle. On the other side, I have a hard time seeing how someone 'forgets' to turn our make and model car off :notallthere:
 
#16 ·
I'd actually flip that statement and say it's really a lack of focus in a busy World rather than too many distractions. Human beings are fully capable of handling the "distractions" as long as they choose to focus rather than choose not to.
 
#20 ·
I look at it this way...

If someone is busy thinly slicing tomatoes with a razor sharp knife and a song comes on the radio that makes them feel like dancing and they start to dance and cut their finger, the song that "distracted them" by making them feel like dancing isn't to blame...nor is anything else. It's their decision to take their focus off of slicing the tomatoes and start dancing that's to blame.

It's all about mental discipline and personal responsibility for your actions.

Sure, anyone can have momentary loss of focus with terrible results. But that also doesn't mean that the tools they are in control of at the time it happened are to blame or "should have saved them".

That's like asking the knife to know that you became distracted and started dancing and dull it's edge to protect you.

That kind of expectation would only be another "partial responsibility" scenario anyway. Why stop at the knife protecting you? Just give it the entire responsibility of slicing the tomatoes..so you can just relax and dance to the music.

Self-driving cars, anyone?
 
#25 ·
Another side note... why don't these people have a CO detector in their house? It's called the SILENT KILLER for a reason.
 
#26 ·
I love my Push Button Start in my 13 Charger. In fact, I will never buy another car with out it. However, with that said, there is one thing that I don't like about it. If you forget to turn off your car, it doesn't turn off by itself, even when my charger will tell me that my KEY FOB is not in range. I personally have done this a few times, and I am glad I didn't do this while I put my vehicle in my garage, like some unfortunate people have done (and paid the price 13-deaths). However, I did find my gas tank with less gas in it because of it. It's amazing, that with all the technology that exists today and even in the past, that there could not have been some kind of timer put on the car that when the vehicle realizes that the KEY FOB was not in distance of the vehicle and it was running, to turn it off, if safe to do so (in park). I feel bad for the people that have lost their lives to something that could have been easily programmed into these cars with PUSH BUTTON START. My guess, is that there is some limitation in existing vehicles that would prevent a auto shutdown from being added to our vehicles with Push Button Start, but I would like to see one as part of the settlement with this Class Action Lawsuit.

Here is the link to an article about the Class Action Lawsuit: Class-Action Lawsuit Claims 10 Automakers Hid Keyless Ignition Carbon Monoxide Dangers That Led To 13 Deaths
i have 2014 dodge charger . i had replace hole drive line car has 60k miles
i had replace all 4 axles
trasfer case
and motor probems where cold air intake sucks oil in to the air intake
the seals will not stop it now i must replace upper and lower control arms in front
i meen at 60k miles none t his should been needed.
as far programing u wrong prob is in the wireing.
another probem i replace one of the fuel pumps found the contacks inside where plugs in at to melted
u want talk about one big death the wireing is undersize for amout power is needed to run most anything
this is the probem, i go on and on. i know how fix each every probem. even probem with lifter t here fix for that.
but none this is told to us, the lifters are turn off by value on top of motor wich shuts down so insted of v8 turns into v6
probem with this is that burning out the lifters, they know if this that have part to remove the value that controls this
how can car has so many probems
 
#28 ·
i have 2014 dodge charger . i had replace hole drive line car has 60k miles
i had replace all 4 axles
trasfer case
and motor probems where cold air intake sucks oil in to the air intake
the seals will not stop it now i must replace upper and lower control arms in front
i meen at 60k miles none t his should been needed.
as far programing u wrong prob is in the wireing.
another probem i replace one of the fuel pumps found the contacks inside where plugs in at to melted
u want talk about one big death the wireing is undersize for amout power is needed to run most anything
this is the probem, i go on and on. i know how fix each every probem. even probem with lifter t here fix for that.
but none this is told to us, the lifters are turn off by value on top of motor wich shuts down so insted of v8 turns into v6
probem with this is that burning out the lifters, they know if this that have part to remove the value that controls this
how can car has so many probems
And what does this have to do with this thread?
 
#27 ·
Lawyers are going to get richer and FCA will win but reflect the court costs back into sticker prices because some people forgot to shut the car down. How many stove lawsuits are won out there. Wow.

There was a Rain-X lawsuit because the beads gathered at low speads reflecting light obscuring vision. The judge asked if her wipers worked, answering yes the case was tossed.
 
#29 ·
There was a Rain-X lawsuit because the beads gathered at low speads reflecting light obscuring vision. The judge asked if her wipers worked, answering yes the case was tossed.
🤣 people are just lazy, stoopid and greedy. Always looking for someone else to take the blame for them.
I do agree with the comments about the priority of your focus. And I have kids (grown) and NEVER did I forget that they were in the car. This has always baffled me.
And what does this have to do with this thread?
Nothing really. But, I think they might have been trying to say something useful in their opinion but clouded it with too much minutiae.

Also, a 7 year old
 
#31 ·
Off Topic: The other day I had the OPPOSITE problem. I was running late to meet friends at a restaurant and when I pressed the start button, the car wouldn't start! I've had this happen several times before where I've repositioned the key fob, pushed the start button, and nothing! This last time it I tried opening and closing the door, multiple pushes on the start button for what seemed like forever, and finally after over two minutes of monkeying around, it started.
The ONLY thing I can figure is maybe the key fob battery's getting weak so it's not being recognized. I've already had the security update so only the two fobs that came with the car will work, and I'd hoped that update might solve this issue. I'm more worried about the car not starting using the push button, then the car not shutting off automatically on its own!
 
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