I refuse to believe that there is nothing we can do to stop this! - Page 39 - Dodge Charger Forums
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#381 Old 02-04-2013, 01:15 PM
Jonny
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When confronted by a bad man who intends to do you and/or your family harm, do you want equal "firepower" or superior firepower? ie would you want a knife in a gun fight?

Few of us expect to be in this situation, this is a hypothetical question.

I guess you could depend on the police...if the bad guy lets you call.

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#382 Old 02-04-2013, 04:47 PM
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Jonny,

One might consider what this home owner did, but shhh don't tell anybody, he used a gun to stop a crime
A homeowner in Indiana found an intruder in his home shortly after 10am.

The intruder was armed with a handgun. The homeowner used his own gun to fire several shots at the intruder.

The suspect fled the scene on foot once the shooting started.

source

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#383 Old 02-04-2013, 06:20 PM
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That is my point

There is no evidence that allowing people to carry weapons reduces crime

There is no evidence that restricting guns makes it safer either


If we want to lower violent crime the answer is not gun control nor is it putting more guns on the street either


Look at the facts

Guns don't make a community safer
I agree with your points in general (statistical/non-statistical arguments aside). Further, I have stated all along that guns aren't the problem, people are. You seem to agree.

I also think that the difficulty in the analysis of the current situation is that there are no controlled studies (or practical ways of conducting them) that can provide insight as to whether increasing the number of guns in the hands of private citizens living in inherently violent communities (in which criminals already have guns) can effectively reduce crime.

While accidental shootings and suicides may increase, does violent crime decrease? Is the overall death and/or injury rate of the population from non-medical causes improved?

The anecdotal evidence seems to argue both ways in terms of the overall well-being of the population.

It's also important to note that people are inherently tribal and violent animals and have been engaging in murder and genocide long before the gun was invented. ****sapiens killed off the neanderthals to take over control of the planet and "tribes" around the world have been killing each other ever since. Nations at war have killed children by the thousands in recent history (WWII) and continue to do so around the world.

The desire to have "superior" weaponry to protect one's own family or "tribe" is a natural instinct well honed by thousands of years of such violence.

We all want to feel safe, but disarmament in a violent world makes no sense either. We can't disarm the attackers effectively any more than we have been able to win the "war on drugs".

The answer to dealing with the issue lies elsewhere.


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#384 Old 02-05-2013, 07:00 PM
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As much as I need the educational challenge, apparently 10 total years of college and 4 degrees aren't enough ... Thought I would share some thoughts.

Anecdotal evidence refers to conclusions derived from casual non scientific observations, often with incorrect conclusions. What I posted were commercial media accounts of facts from individual experiences, of which the individuals testimonies are even admissible in a court of law. Not the same thing as anecdotal evidence.

Great video of a newscaster arguing we don't need firearms for self protection. One thing so many people don't understand, Police Officers do not have a duty to protect us. Supreme Court has made that very very clear.
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#385 Old 02-09-2013, 12:55 PM
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New York diverged from the national trend in the early 1990s, when it began expanding its police force and introduced a computerized system to track crimes and complaints. Officers also aggressively enforced laws against guns, illegal drugs and petty crimes like turnstile jumping in the subways. Arrests for misdemeanors increased sharply.

Yet serious crime went down. So though more people were being locked up for brief periods — including many who were unable to make bail and were awaiting trial — the local jail population was shrinking and fewer city residents were serving time in state prisons.

“Even with more people coming into the system, the overall bed count was declining because people weren’t staying as long,” Dr. Jacobson, who was correction commissioner from 1995 to 1998, recalled.

“It was a nightmare to administer because there was so much churning and turnover, but it was good news for the city.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/26/ny...anted=all&_r=0




Michelle Obama plans to attend the funeral for a Chicago high school student killed last month in a shooting a week after performing for President Obama’s second inauguration.

Ms. Pendleton’s killing has brought wider attention to Chicago’s struggle to stop rising gun and gang violence amid a larger nationwide debate about gun control. The White House official spoke on the condition of anonymity because Mrs. Obama’s plans had not formally been announced.

Ms. Pendleton,15, was gunned down by a gang member while taking shelter from rain with about a dozen other people in a park less than a mile from the Obamas’ Kenwood home.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-inauguration/



How Many People Have Been Killed by Guns Since Newtown?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._shooting.html
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#386 Old 02-09-2013, 03:53 PM
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Chicago and NY are essentially gun free zones

So, is it the guns that are a problem, or the criminals?
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#387 Old 02-09-2013, 07:30 PM
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Chicago and NY are essentially gun free zones

So, is it the guns that are a problem, or the criminals?
Isn't it the criminals with guns that are the big problem? I just cannot see why you want to make it so easy for criminals to get guns.

But ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man.
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#388 Old 02-09-2013, 07:46 PM
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Isn't it the criminals with guns that are the big problem? I just cannot see why you want to make it so easy for criminals to get guns.
And how do criminals legally obtain firearms?
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#389 Old 02-09-2013, 07:55 PM
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Isn't it the criminals with guns that are the big problem? I just cannot see why you want to make it so easy for criminals to get guns.
I really don't think PD wants to make it easy for criminals to get guns.

As Malcolm's NY Times article showed clearly, appropriate enforcement of the existing laws can be highly effective in reducing crime. The addition of new laws isn't really the answer if the current ones aren't being effectively enforced.

To answer your first statement, the issue isn't necessarily "criminals with guns" but rather just "criminals". Guns are incidental to their behavior and intent. If guns didn't exist, they would simply find other tools to engage in their behavior. There are accounts in history of criminals using cross-bows to commit their crimes long before the firearm became readily available.
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#390 Old 02-09-2013, 08:24 PM
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In England, since they've banned all guns (yeah, right), the incidence of knife attacks has become a big problem. They have already talked *seriously* about banning kitchen knives!

You can't make this stuff up!

Again, it's the criminals that are the problem, NOT the tools they employ!


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