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does 5x115 = 5x114.3?

282K views 60 replies 32 participants last post by  Rambit 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I think the title kinda says it all. Does 5x115 = 5x114.3 bolt pattern?

I see a lot of ads say that their wheels will fit chargers but they have 114.3's and I know we have a 115.
 
#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
  • 5x115mm = 5x4.53"
  • 5x114.3mm = 5x4.50"



There have been some who have had studs break off or vibration issues, but I guess the vibration issues can be fixed through the use of hub-centric rings.

I'd use what the car's meant to use, 5x115mm, and in all my searching for rims, if I don't find one in 5x115mm, I'm no longer interested in that particular style ...
 
#8 ·
oh it will believe it or not...as minute as the measurement might be....


just have to be careful of the offset...that means a lot of difference.

Yes it does...X10
 
#5 ·
just have to be careful of the offset...that means a lot of difference.
 
#7 ·
There is no big deal, really. Most if not all aftermarket wheel companies have "play" in thier "bolt centric" applications of 5x115 or 5x114.3. Why you ask? Because they will have more car applications they can fit. They are in it to make money and if they drill the bolt holes with a little play, they can fit more cars. If you take a wheel with a 5x115 bolt pattern it will fit a car with 5x114.3 and vice versa. As long as you get hubcentric rings you should be fine. I had TSW wheels before on my charger and never had any problems. Hell my first set of 24" were 5x120 bolt pattern. Those had to be tapped to become 5x115, but I never had any problems with them.
 
#9 ·
This is a huge safety concern here i must say...i mean if some of you guys are running the 114.3 bolt pattern and getting away with it then, thats all well and good...but you wont catch me messing with something like the wheels that could potentially come loose and fall off b/c of a couple of millimeters of difference in the bolt patterns...its just not a chance im willing to take...the cars came with a wheel with a 5x115 bolt pattern, so thats what im putting on, to all of you who choose to go the different route...well you got more balls then i do...and i hope nothing horrible happens...
 
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#10 ·
If your gonna mix up bolt patterns... then atleast use hub-centric rings or make sure your wheels are hub-centric...

Any time I put wheels on a customers car, I always make sure to have hub-centric rings in place... I do not want the liability for the wheels breaking off the hub bolts (and Ive seen it happen where a wheel shiered off all the bolts and went flying off the freeway)((on 2 different cars actually))

and I would atleast make sure you use lug nuts like what is on the RIGHT in this picture, the ones on the left will force the wheel stud to bend to sit flat / flush on the wheel...
 
#12 · (Edited by Moderator)
I can't believe you guys are making it sound like .7 of a mm is so far off when it comes to mounting wheels on a car! That's not quite the distance across the tip of a ball point pin. If you put the proper lug on, like CKD posted, and tighten them correctly, then torque them done in the proper order (as you should be doing with any wheel, you will not be able to notice the difference, nor will it add any additional stress on the lugs. It won't cause any wobbles either. Your average tire out of round by more than 4x that, and still passes inspection for safe use on road.

Also, has anyone noticed the size of the lugs the charger platform is running? That size is usually found on trucks, not cars. There is enough tolorence in the wheel bolt hole to suffice for the 114.3 when using the proper type lug.
 
#21 ·
Also, has anyone noticed the size of the lugs the charger platform is running? That size is usually found on trucks, not cars. There is enough tolorence in the wheel bolt hole to suffice for the 114.3 when using the proper type lug.

This is also very true. I have a friend whom owns a limo company. He just added an 07 Escalade and has many Hummers in his stable of limos. I was installing some wheels on his Escalade this past week. We ran out of lugs and the car needed to go out to work. I had spare lugs off a Charger and out of curiosity I tried them. The lugs fit perfectly. They also fit His Hummers as well. So I know this first hand.
 
#13 · (Edited)
It can not be justified in any reasonble manner that running 114.3's on 115mm centers is wise. It is not wise. You may not have an issue as others have stated, but what do you really risk if something does go wrong; Your life, or your kids/wife/girlfriend/mum/dad/etc? How about others in the immediate vicinity if it fails? How about the insurance company when they realize you elected to use wheels that were never designed to fit your vehicle?

From an engineering and mechanical standpoint, it is foolish.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Okay, for those of you without an engineering degree, take a look at a ruler that shows millimeters, cenitmeters and inches. Take a look at the millimeters. There are 32 millimeters in one inch! A millimeter is 1/32 of an inch. The difference between 115mm and 114.3 is .7mm. That means using the 114.3 would have each stud off center by .35 of a millimeter. So we are talking 1/3 of a millimeter off. In engineering and manufacturing, you will find there are always tolorences. So with your engineering background, you believe that .35mm is not within a very resonable tolorence for a wheel mounted on 5 heavy duty studs? There has to be about that much clearance between the stud and the bolt hole of the wheel. As a matter of fact, when you put a bolt on a nut, I can bet there is about .3mm distance between the nut and bolt. Measure it if you doubt me. So take out your micrometer, and your text book.
 
#15 · (Edited)
When you tighten the lug nuts, on a proper fit they center themselves based on the 60 degree chamfer present on both the lugnut and the rim center section.

When you attempt to tighten down studs which reside on a 115mm on-center pattern, "at best" (impossible) every stud is displaced laterally 0.35mm towards the center. This means that the M14-1.5mm studs are expected to deflect 0.35mm sideways to the load (under tension), over a distance of ~8.5mm (from hub base to base of conical section on wheel). Given that 8.5mm is ~60% of the overall thickness of the stud itself, what do you think will happen.

Now add to this that most folks will likely tighten one lugnut pretty well to the point that it is properly seated (conical faces mated), then another, so which stud...or studs...will be subjected to a greater lateral displacement (greater than 0.35mm) after they have all been torqued to the proper (ya right) specification? I'll add that most folks "already" overtighten their lugnuts and I'm sure do not employ a torque wrench (a "really" good idea with cast/machined aluminum wheels) which is bound to put even more undue stress on one or more of the studs.

Heck, we have not even begun to address the increased (and now constantly varying) loading while operating the vehicle...and how the stud material within the thread valleys is exceeding it's glass transition point and precipitating a fissure...
 
#16 ·
Wow, not sure if it's all the beer I drank tonight, but it's like reading Japanese.
My Axis Ordens that I ordered(uninstalled) have a front 5X115, and the rears have a 5X114.3, I was told this would not be a problem at all, now you all have me nervous, I have 2 kids and don't wanna put them in jeopardy.
 
#40 ·
"Some people are just anal about stuff." True. But most, in relationship to the question at hand, are more than that. They are jackass fools! If it were that simple, why do auto manufacturers even worry about tolerances? Why hire all the engineers? Hey! If it almost fits, it's close enough, just make it fit and let it go! 'Nuff said.
 
#22 ·
Not that I know too much about the subject, but I would think that in manufacturing a 5x115 rim, the rim would NEVER turn out to be exactly 5x115. I'd bet that if fluctuates up and down by .5mm

Nothing is perfect.

The only reason I bring this thread back is because I am consitering buying a set of 5x114.3 rims and we never really got to a clear answer. I'd like to know how many people have been using 5x114.3 and for how long.
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
old threat but i am just want to know if i can mount 5x114,3 on my srt8.

in germany we have special lug nuts like these.

Bicycle part Automotive tire Rim Font Auto part


with these it is possible to mount a bolt plattern that is 2mm smaller or bigger on your car.
the problem is that these are oly availibe in 12mm and the charger has 14mm (M14x1.5)

It would be great to know if these are available in the states.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Never seen those; the real queston is whether those units can actually center the wheel. It's not likely as they are free-floating.

No matter what, from an engineering standpoint making one or all studs deflect laterally under tension is simply unwise. No engineer worth their salt would ever approve.

unfortunately there are plenty of people doing precisely that; mounting 4.5" wheels on 115mm hubs. I just hope they are not next to me on the highway. If something bad happens, and it can be shown that the improper size wheel was deliberately employed, let the lawyer games begin.

Where you are I think they are even less accepting of this practive...yes?
 
#25 ·
yeah i am an engineer too and i know that this is not the problem.

yeah to center the wheel i need to use hub centric rings.
but to be fair. the standard tolerances for dimensions between 30mm and 120mm are +-0.3mm
so in the best case for me. my car has a bolt pattern of 5x115 -0.3 and the wheels are 5x114.3 +0.3.
that would be 5x114.7 on the car and 5x114.6 on the wheels.
But i think that they use smaller tollerances.

But another thing is the bore where the screw of the cars go through the wheels. They should have a little play to mount the wheels without destroying the surface of the wheel.

I am really not sure. As I am an engineer I would say NO, especially because we drive up to 250km/h on our highways.

Maybe I can use some spacers to go to the correct size, the problem is that the wheels are only available with a +20mm offset, which is like the stock srt8 rims, and so 20mm spacers would be to much to use them.
 
#26 ·
The replica Mercedes SLR wheels I have on my Magnum were originally 112mm on-center with a 35mm offset; I machined them out to 115mm by enlarging/offsetting, then machining the lands to accept off-the-shelf (pressed-in) conical metal inserts. Then I machined hubcentirc spacers and pressed in longer wheelstuds.

If you like the wheels enough, it's not that difficult to make them fit properly if you now a good machinist. Wait aminute, it's deutschland...you gotta have a few good machinists :^)
 
#27 ·
yeah enlarging the holes sounds good.

i think this i can do on my own on the cnc 5-axis mill in the company i am working.
i am working 2 times on the weeks on the mills in the company so it is no problem for me.

the difference in diameter is 0.7 mm so the radius is 0.35 mm bigger on my car.
so it would be enough to make each of the holes 0.175 mm in diameter bigger.

then i use hub centric rings and it should work fine.

what kind of lug nuts can you recommend
 
#29 ·
All of you are absolutely correct
the wheel will fit it will mount up correctly
but in the same sense
it will never be bolted ((on)) correctly
there is that .07mm that is gasping for air
just picture someone holding your throat .07mm away from choking you yeah you can breath but can you survive with only that much air?
No
and no
and no
so be safe protect your investement which is your car or truck

i have used 5x114.3 on a cadillac and it didnt ride right
the hub centric rings work magic yet even with those they onyly work so well regardless of the centered setting you may think you have
the only thing that works are custom hub centric rings with studs commonly reffered to as adapters
yes remember the wire wheel fad?
That is the only safe alternative with out the knock off..
Ride safe not stupid
 
#32 ·
If the wheels were steel I wouldn’t think twice about. Like one poster said they took FWD wheels off an old LX car that had snow tires on them and ran them. That is a short term swap that is actually safer than leaving the old summer tires on with the correct wheel stud circle diameter. It’s a bad idea to attempt this with cast aluminum wheels. Forged aluminum wheels might handle it better, but who would want to risk ruining a $2,000.00+ set of forged aluminum wheels?? Just do like one poster suggested and have the hubs re-drilled to the correct bolt pattern and press in new studs. Then you will be capable of running 114.3’s or 115’s by swapping out the studs.
 
#33 ·
I was in the tire and wheel business 25 years, now specialize in wheel adapters.
Chrysler and Dodge wheels with the 14x1.5 studs are too tight to fit into 5x4.5 wheels in many cases.
Chrysler and Dodge hubs with 71.5mm hub bore is too large for GM 5x115 wheels with 70.3 bore.
Cars with 5x4.5 and 5x115 bolt patterns with the 12x1.5 or 1/2" studs will usually allow either wheel to slip on but the lug nuts do not seat perfectly if the bolt pattern of the hub and wheel do not match perfectly and can cause problems.
Proper fitting hub rings can help smooth the ride.
Many things are done even by "professionals" working at tire shops that are not optimal but the wheels usually stay on the car.
Lug nuts should always be installed using proper torque.
 
#34 ·
I was in the tire and wheel business 25 years, now specialize in wheel adapters.
Chrysler and Dodge wheels with the 14x1.5 studs are too tight to fit into 5x4.5 wheels in many cases.
Chrysler and Dodge hubs with 71.5mm hub bore is too large for GM 5x115 wheels with 70.3 bore.
Cars with 5x4.5 and 5x115 bolt patterns with the 12x1.5 or 1/2" studs will usually allow either wheel to slip on but the lug nuts do not seat perfectly if the bolt pattern of the hub and wheel do not match perfectly and can cause problems.
Proper fitting hub rings can help smooth the ride.
Many things are done even by "professionals" working at tire shops that are not optimal but the wheels usually stay on the car.
Lug nuts should always be installed using proper torque.
 
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