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Potential 2013 R/T Buyer with a few questions for you experts!

9K views 111 replies 20 participants last post by  mblock66 
#1 ·
Hey everyone. I am looking a picking up a new car in the next few weeks. I am coming from a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited. I will be trading the car in for something new and had criteria of wanting something performance oriented. I really want a Camaro SS but its 2 doors, RWD, MT, and not very practical. Wife can't drive MT and is against coupe purchase.

So I was looking at the new Honda accord but I only like the coupe not the sedan. I could get a great deal on it but again she is agaist the coupe part.

I then thought of the Charger R/T 4 doors, optional AWD, practical size, and only comes in Auto.

Right now it looks like they are very very heavily discounting them too. Around $4k. Which would mean I could probably get into an AWD R/T Max for about $33,500.

Here are my questions:

1) Are they heavily discounting the V8 (non SRT8) cars because the 8 speed auto is coming out early Feb? If so I would assume the 8 speed would greatly increase the MPG as well as the performance overall. Right now the car is ~ 5.3 0-60 and 13.7 1/4. I would think that this trans would have the potential to make that 5.0 and 13.3 along with improved fuel. Is it worth me waiting or do you think the discounts will be there next month too.

2) I would pretty much only consider the AWD version of the car for winters in NJ. But it looks like the AWD car only comes with the cheesy rims. You can't get the nice 5 spokes or those blacked out ones. Nor can you get the black out package. Do I have this correct? If so why is that?

3) Would there be any advantage to getting the R/T Plus and adding options rather then the R/T Max? Its a little confusing to me. Does the R/T Max literally come with every option?

4) Does the R/T suffer the gas guzzler tax?

Thanks in advance for the help. I plan on going to the dealer this week to test one.
 
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#2 ·
Ok after some more research it appears that I would be better suited going with the R/T Plus and getting the AWD Sport Performance Appearance Package. That gives you painted 19 inch rims, the same black grill, and beats audio.

I am not sure what the painted 19 inch rims look like but it lowers the cost of the car a lot. With $4k in incentives that puts it at about $30,500. Only $2k more then the accord. The big question then would be the 8speed. Everything I read is assuming 2/6 the 8 speed goes into the Hemi.

So is that 8 speed going to be so revolutionary to the performance of the car that its worth losing $4k up front
 
#3 ·
Not that I have anything against the AWD Charger, but if you do a quick search on this site for threads pertaining to "snow" you may see some interesting photos showing what a RWD Charger with decent snow tires can *easily* deal with.
 
#4 ·
Im with ya. I have owned a 1968 GTO and a 1997 30th anniversary Z28. So I know all about RWD and snow (not that the GTO saw it). And I know the power of good dedicated snows.

But here is the thing. 4 new rims and 4 new tires will cost about the same as buying the AWD system in the car from the start. We don't see snow here more then a few times a winter too so I could probably make the case to go with RWD and just work from home if it snows.

Which would open up some other options and make the car cheaper. I just think that having the added comfort of the AWD would be good if we start a family in the next year or so.
 
#5 ·
What part of the country do you live in? I live in North Central Indiana and I've been running my Charger R/T RWD since 2006...I don't even have dedicated Snow Tires for it.

Now granted, if the weather is TOO bad, I stay my butt at home...but that's just simply not wanting to deal with the other idiots on the road whose ambition often outweighs their ability :D

What options were you looking at? If you're wanting to add options (Nav, Backup Camera, etc.), you might save some coin going with the R/T Max over the R/T Plus. The Max pretty much includes all available options except the Sunroof, the Spoiler, and the Roof Blackout (which are all three available...they just aren't included).
 
#6 ·
Im in central NJ. So like I said the snow issue here isn't all THAT major. We do get some dangerous conditions at least a few times a winter. Nothing that RWD would really have an issue with but the wife might be more inclined to let me get the car if it has AWD.

I am not really sure what I would be looking for. I think I want to get that blacktop package that has the black rims, beats audio, and spoiler. After that I would need to think about it. I have never bought a NAV in a car because I have a Garmin.

My real concern at this point is the $4k in incentives vs the 8speed auto. I have seen what those things can do to increase performance and MPG in other cars and its amazing. I know no one can really answer that question but that 8speed could be the best "bolt on" for this car ever lol
 
#8 ·
I really appreciate your take on it. I am a V8 muscle guy through and though. I had my fun with a turbo 4. I modded that thing to running 12's in the 1/4 so it was QUICK. But now that it is time to say goodbye to that subaru. I can't just put myself into something that has no enthusiest appeal at all. Like a small SUV or soemthing. And to my wife who couldn't tell the difference between a Bently or a Hyundai, she doesn't get why I can't be happy in some econobox. She has a civic and cars to her are for A to B and thats it.

I thought the Accord Coupe was going to be a slam dunk with her but was very surprised she balked at the two doors. Then my brain went to charger. But there was the whole RWD issue until I realized they made an AWD version.

Pricing out the RWD with Cust Pref Pkg and Blacktop Pkg on the R/T plus and including the $4k in incentives on the car right now, it puts it exactly at that same price as the accord.

I will talk to her later about what she thinks. She will be happy about the 4 doors, large trunk, auto trans. She may be ok with RWD at that point but the option for AWD is there anyway for about $1500.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Right now it looks like they are very very heavily discounting them too. Around $4k. Which would mean I could probably get into an AWD R/T Max for about $33,500.

Here are my Answers to your questions:

1) Are they heavily discounting the V8 (non SRT8) cars because the 8 speed auto is coming out early Feb? If so I would assume the 8 speed would greatly increase the MPG as well as the performance overall. Right now the car is ~ 5.3 0-60 and 13.7 1/4. I would think that this trans would have the potential to make that 5.0 and 13.3 along with improved fuel. Is it worth me waiting or do you think the discounts will be there next month too.

I can't see the 8-speed giving the hemi all that much better mileage, but it should make the car quicker with better gear choices.

2) I would pretty much only consider the AWD version of the car for winters in NJ. But it looks like the AWD car only comes with the cheesy rims. You can't get the nice 5 spokes or those blacked out ones. Nor can you get the black out package. Do I have this correct? If so why is that?

You can get your own aftermarket wheels. I didn't like the stock wheels much, so I got my own.

3) Would there be any advantage to getting the R/T Plus and adding options rather then the R/T Max? Its a little confusing to me. Does the R/T Max literally come with every option?

The max is literally all the options but sport package and paddle shifters. The AWD does come with 3.08 gears instead of the 2.65 which makes it run quite well. I love my max. The Adaptive cruise control and rain sense wipers are beyond awesome.


4) Does the R/T suffer the gas guzzler tax?

Not that I'm aware of. I didn't pay that nor was it on my window sticker. It still gets very good mileage on the highway and if you were to consider the 6cyl with the 8-speed, it gets awesome mileage.


I absolutely love my AWD. I came from a GMC Sierra SLT 6.2L truck to the AWD R/T Max and haven't looked back. I consistently get 16-17mpg tooling around and 24-25mpg highway. I recently had the chance to play in the snow with my car (6"-8" on the road) and I was VERY impressed with the AWD system. And I get compliments all the time on the looks of the car. There's plenty of room for my family and decent trunk space with fold down rear seats for the longer items. I recently picked up a 11' long carpet rug with the trunk closed...ahaha

I think you'll really like the car. I think it's dodges best kept secret.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Yeah I am starting to read about the 3.06 rear gear. Seems to come on the R/T Road and Track RWD pkg, or the AWD Max pkg.

I would want the better gearing. Even the diff between 3.06 and 2.65 is huge on the low end. It would make one walk all day long on the 2.65 at lower highway speeds.

There seems to be a 200 lb penalty on the AWD car over the RWD. Its not a ton but thats a lot considering its already a pig of a 4200lb car lol. Plus im 6'4 225.

Looks like the 3.06 also comes on the AWD R/T Plus. I will have to go to the dealer this week and drive some. I know I will like it but I guess I will have to think about the 8speed thing. Waiting wouldn't be hard for me to do at all since im not ready at the moment to purchase, but it would probably cost me the $4k in incentives and tax if I waited past Feb 6th
 
#11 ·
I love my AWD Charger. It is nice to have the added security of AWD even if it just raining out or my foot is a little heavy. The back end will still break loose a little bit and then the front wheels will pull it out straight which is nice. Tires will last longer!

I drive 45 miles each way to work and average around 22-23 MPG on mostly highway driving.
 
#12 ·
I really think I am talking myself into the charger RT. I can't wait for the 8 speed. My subaru needs to go and if they won't be available until mid year then that's just too long.

So now I need to decide what I want to get. What sucks is that it appears that you can only get the sports appearance package on AWD in Graphite, Black, or Red. The more I look at the colors I really think I like copperhead.

I know I want the 3.06 gears no matter which "drive" I choose. Which on the RWD models means I need to either go road and track package or blacktop I believe.

So the only option to get any of these combinations in copperhead is RWD road and track copperhead.

There are just too many options lol
 
#13 ·
The 8 speed would be nice, but not $4000 nicer IMHO. That is what it would cost you to wait for it, because the incentive will be gone by then. Plus you have to wonder if they have the bugs worked out of it. This will be the first time they are using the 8 speed with high torque V8 engines.

My previous car was a G8 GT, and it was very fast for an affordable RWD 4 door sedan. The GT was a little quicker off the line than my R/T and I have the 2.65 ratio. From a roll there is no difference. I am very happy with the Hemi and do not consider the 5-speed a liability at all. The G8 tranny had some odd behavior where it would not downshift without full throttle at lower speeds. I see no such behavior with the R/T at all. I think you will be more than happy with the 5-speed and a 3.06 ratio.

The R/T does just fine in the snow with good snow tires like Blizzaks. Sure AWD would be even better but you have to decide if it's really necessary. It may be easier to find the 3.06 with AWD since it is standard. There are not very many R/Ts in the Indy area inventory with the 3.06 ratio so that may help you decide.

One other consideration is that 19 inch rims and tires are a lot more expensive than 18 inchers. Since the 19 inchers will be lower profile, they are more susceptible to tire and rim damage from hitting potholes.

GTO_04
 
#14 ·
There only like 8 AWD R/T PLus with the sport pkg in the country from what I can see. I need to get to a dealer pronto to figure out what I can get. I don't know if there are more that they can get in or are sitting at the port but it doesn't seem like there are many Road and Track or AWD Perf Pkg cars at all
 
#15 ·
mblock, I would wonder how much real world MPG improvement the 8 speed will give with the hemi. I dunno what Chrysler is going to claim but remember it is a CLAIM based on calculations, not real world driving experience.

If you were talking the pentastar then the 8 would doubtless be an advantage over the 5. But the hemi has 52% MORE torque. There is such as thing as overkill on number of gears and this may be it.I doubt the real life fuel economy will be that much greater.

Plus the 5 speed has a long history of durability, the 8 will be seeing 395 ft/pounds for the first time.....
 
#16 ·
Yeah I am on board with the 5 speed. And 4k in hand is worth a lot more to me then a few tenths 0-60 and 2 mpg. I honestly drive under 10 miles a day usually anyway so I won't get great fuel no matter what I drive.

I have started to contact the local dealers. I would like to move ahead with the 5 speed but still unsure about AWD vs RWD. I know I want the 3.06 gears which are standard in the AWD but I just don't like the wheel tire setup as much as the 20's on the RWD. However the sport appearance pkg on the AWD might make the wheels look cooler but literally no cars are out there with this option. So I need to see if my wife is ok with RWD and maybe I just lease the car rather then buy it.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I owned a RWD G8 before my 2013 Charger RT AWD and i cant imagine you regretting getting the AWD over the RWD R/T with the 3.06 gears. Here were my two main selling points. All season drivability. I get 100+ inches of snow a year and with the stock all seasons its an effortless thing of beauty. I have driven in 3 snow storms so far and I would rather drive my AWD in the snow than my G8 with all seasons in the rain. Honestly... Its amazing how easy driving becomes with AWD. Maybe you dont want that but something to consider.

My next biggest selling point is the Balls out launch the AWD provides. The first time I hammered on it I was in RWD mode in my AWD charger cause it was warmer. I chirped and spun my wheels through 25-30 mph until traction control was able to manage the spining and it caught. With AWD activated there is none of that. You can give it as much power as you want and all it does is go. Maybe a slight chirp but its amazing the difference in G's and driving excitement. Below is an example of one of my 0-60 runs in AWD mode. Its a rocket in comparison to RWD. I suppose with better tires and practice launching the RWD you could get close but my AWD is sickenly consistant. All of my 0-60 runs are within .05 of a second. Just a couple things to think about.


0-10 = .64
0-20 = 1.33
0-30 = 2.11
0-40 = 2.90
0-50 = 4.09
0-60 = 5.33

Good Luck. You really cannot go wrong. the Hemi is wonderful.
in RWD mode I have pushed 28-29 mpg on the highway (70-75 mph cruisin). Strick city driving a kinda brutal. If you are rural and can get some decent 30-40 mph cruises in you can get really good city MPG's. if its like downtown (100 yard blocks) expect 13-14 mpgs. I have a 50/50 mix and I get 17-18 mpgs. 19 if I am gental and nice the whole time and 15-16 if I feel a bit frisky.
 
#19 ·
Slight counterpoint on the AWD versus RWD thing: AWD may help on the launch, but it doesn't do anything for stopping, maybe marginally helping on turning. With ABS equipped cars, it becomes more crucial to have good adherence since any slippage results in pulsation of braking force for that tire. So I would not consider driving the AWD on all season tires either.

I had considered a V8 G8 at one point. How did you find it in the snow? Sounds like we have similar snowfall amounts in the suburb where I'm at.
 
#43 · (Edited)
The G8 can be good in the snow, but you MUST have winter tires!!! It did fine with Continental Extreme Winter Contacts, but having put Blizzaks on my R/T, the Blizzaks run circles around them!

AWD not really necessary, but if you can get a good deal and since it comes with the 3.06 that you want, then I would go for it. Chargers with the 3.06 are hard to come by in the Indy area. I have the 2.65 and am quite happy with it. The G8 will jump away quicker from a standing start due to the gearing, but from a roll the R/T is the equal of it. I get 3 MPG better with the R/T than the G8 and I do not baby it.

Those AWD 0-60 times posted here are the equal of the G8 GT so that is pretty good.

I agree that if you drive in a lot of snow you should have winter tires, it is a huge difference IMHO.

GTO_04
 
#20 ·
honestly, the 2.65 rear gear vs. 3.06 won't be a huge difference...MAYBE .2.3 seconds in the quarter mile, at most...my stock R/T gets up and goes just fine. if you want leather and the 20" wheels, might as well get an Road & track, as leather is $2k over a standard R/T, and the wheels and tunes group (to get 20" wheels) is another $1800.

OR you can order a daytona or blacktop in a standard R/T, both come with the 3.06 ratio.

I'd go for the RWD, because it's $2400 cheaper, and then pick up some 18" rims and snow tires for the winter.

of course, our past two winters here in west michigan have been mild enough I haven't needed to bother with snow tires.
 
#22 ·
Owning an '11 R/T and trading it in for a '13 R/T AWD MAX I'll give you my impressions. The R/T was a delight to drive in just about every aspect albiet, in snow and rain when pushed it did get a bit loose. Now I grew up in Jersey and live in NE Ohio now. I know how to drive in the snow with RWD. You just can't push as much, really that's about it. Having the AWD MAX, you can. Unless it's feet deep the AWD feels solid in every situation. I had blizzaks on both RWD and AWD...with AWD you feel like you're driving a tank, not weight wise, safety wise and always go where you steer the wheel. Gas mileage will suffer with the added drive to the fronts along with the 3.06 rear versus the 2.65 in the regular R/T, but launches are like a rocket. Simply put, if I was overly worried about mpg I would have got the sixer. The MAX has all the toys, blind spot monitering, Adaptive Cruise and the heated steering are my top favorites. Once you have them you wonder how ya got along without 'em.
AWD kicks in under these circumstances: when outside temp is under 41 or when you hit the wipers, including the sensing wipers in the MAX, when you swap over to manual matic or the rear wheels slip. Above 41 and when it's dry you're in rear wheel drive. The steering is lighter in the AWD and it's a little less road feel vs RWD R/T's but you get used to it pretty quickly. In closing, I really enjoy driving the AWD MAX, it's a big, fast, comfortable cruiser on the road in rain, snow or sun and I never give the weather a second thought.
 
#23 ·
Thanks for everyone's take on the car. I didn't realize you can choose to be in RWD or AWD. Or am I reading that wrong?

Here in NJ we don't have a ton of bad weather and my wife has a FWD civic if needed. And this isn't in anyway meant to brag or be pompous but the money between AWD and RWD or options isn't really a concern. I can afford the car. I just want to make sure I am the most educated before I drop said money lol. The worst thing you can do is buy a car and then regret not getting a feature.

My best friend way back in HS got a v6 firebird when I had the Z28 and for the 6 years he had that car he regretted it every time he got in it. Not saying RWD vs AWD would be that big of a decision, but for me RWD gets slightly nicer goodies like the 20's and bigger tires. So I just need to decide that is the best trim for me and then get to the dealer to find one.

I am honestly leaning towards AWD R/T Plus with Sports App Pkg in either Granite or Black and then whatever other options (Nav, Conv, etc)

I wish I could get the AWD R/T Plus in Copperhead with the Sport App Pkg but for whatever reason they aren't doing it.
 
#24 ·
You can choose to be in AWD verses RWD by setting the shifter into manual mode and shifting that way. RWD is when there's no wheel slip, the temps above 41 and the wipers are off. If the temp is below 41or wipers are on or the wheels slip you're in AWD automatically and there you'll stay until conditions warrant otherwise. As for the wheels, I have old 18"s from Ebay that I installed the Blizzaks from my '11 R/T I Plasti dipped black. They look pretty good. The 19"s that came with it I sometimes like and the feel ehhh about. I'm going to Plastidip those too and gloss coat them. People also have powdercoated them and that looks pretty good too.
 

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#29 ·
mblock66, if your wife will approve; go with the Charger and get the Hemi! I've owned my black R/T Max since July, have put 7000 miles on it, and still love it as much as the day I drove it home. I am constantly amazed at the features this car has. The Max is pretty much fully loaded as the only options are sunroof and rear spoiler. And when I say loaded, I mean LOADED! Features that will cost you well over 40K in many other cars. I get more compliments on this car than any car I've ever had before and that includes my old laser red Infiniti G35 coupe with sport package.

As for AWD; my recommendation is skip it. Aside from probably being harder to find, AWD will add a little weight to the car. Granted I can see AWD being a benefit at times where you are, I don't think I would really consider it unless I was further north where there is alot of snow. While I know these are two totally different cars, I had an '09 Cadillac CTS AWD prior to the Charger. That car was a complete lemon and every time I had it in the shop, I got a RWD CTS as a loaner. The RWD models were MUCH more fun to drive. Again, I know the Charger is a completely different car, but I can't help think that the added weight and components of the system may impact the performance a bit. Just my .02.
As for waiting on the 8 speed, I would skip that too. 2 reasons; one will be the discounts as those will likely be gone or much less on 8 speed models. Also, consider availability as I imagine early build units are already spoken for by those who just have to have the 8 speed. While the 8 speed will no doubt improve the performance and fuel economy a bit, the 5 speed isn't all that bad. Especially with the Hemi. And the 5 speed is a proven unit in regards to reliability. Heck Mercedes used it in nearly everything up to and including their V-12 models until recently. Good luck with your decision!
 
#31 ·
Thanks for the writeup I really appreciate it. I am totally ok with the 5speed and will move forward with it. The RWD vs the AWD is really the question now. I need to talk to the wife on if she is concerned about RWD. I don't have a lot of room in the current house for a spare set of 18 inch snow tires and rims. So it might just make more sense to go AWD and be "safer" but I used to drive RWD sports cars all the time here in NJ and I did have issues at times but nothing crazy.

The AWD model I want wouldn't really be on lots so I would have to order it which would be 6-8 weeks he said. RWD I am sure I can find somewhere. I would want to R&T package for the 3.06 gears. Which may also be harder to find and an order situation. We will see. I only have until 2/4. And the dealer told me that Dodge said there are only 2 opportunities left to order a car in AWD with sport app pkg. Ends end of Jan. So that pretty much confirms the 8speed. He even sent me the dealer paperwork in email.
 
#30 ·
Why not just test drive one of each and see for sure which one is right for you?

Of course you have to exercise a great deal of restraint. :) I researched the '06 Charger R/T for about 3-4 months, went and sat in one inside the dealership with my wife and kids one evening (declining a test drive). I had another dealer searching unsuccessfully for an R/T R&T equipped the way I wanted (in a low key colour and mid-optioned) and he offered a test drive in a certain fully loaded red Daytona. 10 minutes after we returned from the test drive, #59 was now mine. :D
 
#32 ·
Ok so I just got back from the dealer. Drove a RWD R/T Max and an AWD R/T Plus. Very similar rides. It was raining a little when I took them out. The RWD broke lose just pulling out of the dealer under light trottle, traction control kicked in. Nice power from the 2.65 gears, the growl is awesome from the exhaust.

The AWD ride felt a little less bumpy probably due to 19's vs 20's. It really didn't slip under acceleration at all and I really couldn't tell a difference in overall speed of the car faster or slower given the 3.06 gears in that car.

They felt about equal. So I fit in it, I like the layout, its quick in either model. I think the 5 speed shifts way faster then my subaru 2005 5 speed. I will talk to the wife and see if she feels strongly about the AWD. I loved the chrome 20's
 
#33 ·
Yeah if it's control you are looking for AWD is the way to go. I bet I could beat my van in a race 0-40 with my AWD charger in 4 inches of snow vs my van on dry pavement. It's a flawless mindless drive. My AWD is a bit boaty but its worth the extra traction IMO. I have 3 kids 5 and under. Not taking the chance of getting stuck.
 
#34 ·
I think a thicker set of sways would work wonders on this car. Its HUGE. I have never owned a sedan this big. I think I will probably go AWD but ill have to see
 
#45 ·
I just spoke with the guy from last night. He said he could get me

2013 Charger R/T Road and Track
Copperhead Orange
Super Track Pack
Nav
Sunroof

which would not allow me to get beats audio, and I would get a sunroof which I could care less about. But this lets me get the orange which can't be ordered. He said the dealership would not be able to swap for all season tires due to tire sensors that cost $150 each. Not sure what he means but that idea won't work.

Does anyone know how good/bad the stock Nav stereo is vs the beats?

So I can either get my color and sacrifice the beats audio or I can order the exact car I want get beats audio not the sunroof and sacrifice the color
 
#51 ·
Now you guys have me really concerned with the eagle F1's. I can't be buying another set of tires right off the dealer lot. Wife wouldn't go for that at all.

Maybe I will have him relook for copperhead with road and track with no super track pack with beats and maybe nav.

I hear what you are saying about the Plus with wheels and tunes pkg. Honestly that makes a lot of sense too and makes it cheaper but I would really like to get the most bang for the buck performance off the showroom. Gears help acceleration a ton and are one of the best mods you can do to a car. So even though its basically a wash with wheels and tunes and then I would have to add beats for another grand (which is just silly for a radio) I might rather have the gears and pay the money
 
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