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Is oil just oil?

7K views 57 replies 22 participants last post by  Gladiator 
#1 ·
So is oil just oil? I just wanted to share my experience and opinion here with you guys. I sent an oil sample to Blackstone recently and I am using Castrol GTX 10w 30 right now. I had a high sodium count in the sample and when I asked is that normal they replied that Castrol GTX has a high sodium count compared to Mobile 1 and other oils. So I asked them do they recommend any oil out there that would be good or better because we all want to get the best stuff right? Well they surprised me by saying that any oil will do the job of lubricating the engine they way it is recommended to do. To my surprise I was told that a few of the guys at the lab use the Walmart oil since oil is just oil and just lubricates the engine. With that said I also asked about Quantum Blue and what they thought about it and they replied the following “We've seen plenty of samples from engines using Quantum Blue oil, and it appears to be good stuff. Wear metals are usually quite low, and the oil doesn't cause any problems for the engines.” So if oil is just oil and any oil does the job of lubricating the engine then an oil that reduces wear metals I guess it is not snake oil like some people claim. On my next oil change I am going back to QB since I was running it before and if an independent lab has notice less metal wear then it begs the question does less metal wear help with the life of the engine? I think so.
 
#2 ·
Sounds like a win for QB oil glad I switched on my 1st oil change at 5000 miles my 2012 Charger will never use a different oil!


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App
 
#5 ·
Oil is just Oil, unless you compare Synthetic to Dino oil.

I use Synthetic, and change twice a year. I change in the Fall to a 5W product, then I change in the Spring to a 10W product. Even the 2010 520i BMWs oil change interval flag is very 15k miles, and you must use Synthetic as called for in the owners manual. The best being the 0W40 by Castrol, made in Germany. Other Castrol weight oils do not indicate it is made in Germany, only the 0W40 does, that I have seen. I looked at all the other Castrol oils, all other blends and weights, none say Made In Germany except the 0W40 brand.

Still, even regular oil has come a long way in 10 years alone. My 2008 Pontiac Vibe manual says 7K interval with Energy Conserving 5W30, though I use regular, it is a company vehicle, they won't pay the Synthetic prices... Which is dumb, because you can go almost 3 times as long between Synthetic changes...

This is, of course, my opinion, and what I do, and is not a part of the 10 commandments. I use what works for me, and has gotten results, for me. You all can so whatever you want, with whatever you want.
 
#6 ·
Oil isn't just oil. Oil is the lifeblood of our Chargers. Consider using Quantum Blue engine oil and their other fluids along with Aces IV. Contact Brian at 370 HEMI
 
#8 ·
I made the move over to BND or quantum blue oils almost a year ago. I am running engine oil, coolant, gear oil, power steering fluid and coolant. This spring when I dump the oil at 10k miles I will flush and refill the transmision with BND's oil

Now I will agree with the blackstone guys on "oil is oil" as that blanket statement covers 90% of people who own cars. Currently compared to maybe 20 years ago oil is oil, its all good stuff and low quality products are tougher to find, where as high quality oil is available everywhere.

If you want to run the heck out of your car, protect it and make all wear parts last as long as possible then a special blend oil like BND offers is for you.

I run BND oil because that is what I want, the best protection I can get, an oil that will free up some horespwer and give me the ability to run 80+ passes down the track and protect the engine on the street, did I mention I can run the same blend in all four seasons in North Dakota
 
#9 ·
Yep, and a McDonald hamburger and a center cut prime rib are both just beef. They will both provide you protein and calories to keep you alive.

However, if you want more out of the meal you know which one is better.

Just like motor oil...;)
 
#10 ·
Yes, using oil that costs ~$120 per oil change probably will give you another 10k miles engine life over the lifespan of the car. If you plan on driving your car for 300k miles, you win!

I'm currently driving the car with the most miles that I have ever put on a car I've owned... my Charger with 72k miles. I've run the cheapest conventional oil in it I could find. I've also run regular old synthetic... nothing special. Runs like the day I bought it, doesn't burn any oil either.

My other car is a VW Passat with 173k miles on it. Runs great, burns no oil. Off the shelf oil.

Any life you gain, is all at the end of the cars life... hardly worth the added expense to me. At that point, everything else is shot, too.

Comparing McDonalds and prime rib? That's a pretty big stretch, unless you are talking price point.

Why is this thread in the performance discussion, it should be in the BND section....
 
#22 ·
yes, using oil that costs ~$120 per oil change probably will give you another 10k miles engine life over the lifespan of the car. If you plan on driving your car for 300k miles, you win!

I'm currently driving the car with the most miles that i have ever put on a car i've owned... My charger with 72k miles. I've run the cheapest conventional oil in it i could find. I've also run regular old synthetic... Nothing special. Runs like the day i bought it, doesn't burn any oil either.

My other car is a vw passat with 173k miles on it. Runs great, burns no oil. Off the shelf oil.

any life you gain, is all at the end of the cars life... hardly worth the added expense to me. At that point, everything else is shot, too.

Comparing mcdonalds and prime rib? That's a pretty big stretch, unless you are talking price point.

Why is this thread in the performance discussion, it should be in the bnd section....
^^^x2..
 
#11 ·
I believe it is also a question of one's view of life. Some prefer strict life while some live a lazy life. It is not a question of who is right, but what you choose.

I think calling op and other "advertising" is a bit over. They are regular people, they like what they use and they are sharing their opinions. Nothing advertising to me. Except Jonny's response seems a bit more offensive.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Dont ruin the night by flaming in another "oil war"!

Well, I'm off to eat more turkey. :)
 
#12 ·
I didn't see anyone calling "advertising" and Jonny's opinion was just that...his opinion. I didn't see it as offensive in any way. I haven't seen any "oil war" here, just opinions to answer the OP's question.

Did I miss something? :dunno:
 
#13 ·
Expensive boutique oil is just that...expensive. nothing more.

If it makes your heart go pitter-patter then waste your money on boutique oil.

But don't expect to notice ANY difference other than what your heart wants to see.

Boutique oil may be no worse but it certainly is no better. It makes me and others in-the-know laugh when we read those who will fall on their own sword over boutique oil :^)
 
#14 ·
Oil discussion is one of those things that it's whatever you prefer. There's good oils, there's crappy oils. Some that are good for your engine, some not so much. But it's like buying jeans, you could buy a pair at Walmart for $20 bucks or buy True Religion for $200 bucks. They both do the same thing, keep your ass covered.
 
#15 ·
You get what you pay for. If you love your Charger and want it to last, go BND automotive. Is this a plug? Sure, it can be construed that way, but it works. Brian proves the efficacy of his findings through empirical research. There are many threads on this forum that proves his products works.

Carpe Diem
 
#16 ·
I was told when we got the charger to use nothing but Mobile 1, Never go to walmart, or any other local random oil change center..So this can be disputed? I was under the impression I would have to take it to the Bigger city, just for the oil change, which I was willing to do, but if I can get it done and the dodge dealership locally than Woohoo!! So is mobile 1 okay to use or should I use something else?
 
#17 ·
Many oil change facilities will allow you to bring your own oil and will give you a discount.

Oil that is regularly changed is good, better oil will allow you to go with longer times between changes. Great oil will help the engine outlast the life of the car.
 
#18 ·
I recently posted this message in the V6 forum:

2006 3.5L V6....Quaker State 10/30 dino (not synthetic)....mopar filter......oil changes around every 4,000 miles. I am at 227,000 miles and no signs of any problems.

Perhaps driving habits have a big influence on motor wear? I allow the car to idle for a minute or two before moving off when the motor is cold. I am light on the throttle until the engine is up to temp. Most of my trips are 45+ minutes and I use the cruise control regularly. I do drive it hard at times, but I never abuse it.

Just my $.02. Happy Thanksgiving.
 
#19 ·
This is a very good point. While the oil you use has an effect on wear, the usage conditions your car sees are a much bigger influence on wear than what brand oil you use.

Use whatever oil you can afford and are comfortable with! :beerchug:
 
#20 ·
Oil opinions are like butt holes, everybody has one. It honestly is personal preference at the end of the day.Guys with race engines dont use off the shelf oil, however we arent talking about race engines and at the end of the day A good brand oil changed regularly will be fine. My wifes sebring has 107,000 miles on regular conventional oil and no knocking, smoking, or pinging.
 
#24 ·
As with most things people buy for their car, it can be boiled down to emotional purchasing. The overwhelming desire for some to coddle their pride and joy has allowed outfits like Blackstone, and boutiques oil suppliers to not only survive but thrive.

If you consider for just a moment the millions of vehicles across the planet that never(!) have their oil analyzed or spend inordinate amounts of hard-earned money for oil products that perform no better than the rest...yet these same vehicles remain in-service for just as long if not longer.

To really(!) put a period on this look what is used in private aircraft. Silly "blended" oils, or additives, do not ever make it into a device where lives depend on it's performance.
 
#25 ·
What the talking heads do not care to understand about oil is that the ILSAC and API Specs have EVERYTHING to do with how an oil will perform.

Just because we have moved to another GF spec and an API Spec doesn't mean it is better. Quite the opposite.

The move to less zinc and different zinc, acidic instead of neutral phosphorous, the reduction in magnesium and the introduction of Moly and Boron doesn't make it better. It makes it cleaner to a small degree, but can't claim to protect it better. Less is NOT MORE here!

Obviously there is a continuous desire by some here to disuade people from supporting a paying forum vendor and their continual push to oil is oil and feeling better like drinking coolaid doesn't negate the facts.

Designing an oil for a specific application is like designing a cam lobe or an exhaust tube diameter or fuel flow of an injector or flow rates on a head. Specific things done with these components WILL make a difference and so will a custom designed lubricant! It is just as much an exact science as any other performance upgrade and one that few people know or understand.

Do you really think that the big manufacturers of oil actually care about you and your car? Let's face it, it's a profit making enterprise just like selling cars! Market the heck out of it, maximize your profit, and just meet the specs!

Do you think that the oil on the shelf of your local store making 40% profit on that space is thinking of you or the subwholesaler that sold it to them for 35% profit, or the wholesaler at 25% profit or the 20% profit from Mobil?

Do you think that the bean counters and the executives come to to the people who blend the oils are telling them to make the very best?


Here is the reality of corporate dictum:

$7.50 quart of oil retail x .60 (40% profit on the shelf) = $4.50 that the autoparts store paid for it.

$4.50 quart of oil from the subwholesaler that paid $2.92 from the wholesaler (4.50 x .65)

$2.92 quart of oil from the wholesaler that paid $2.19 from Mobil ($2.92 x .75)

What about Mobil that sold it for 20% profit ($2.19 x .80) = $1.752

Do you believe each chain link here added value?

Well what if you are a tribological engineer at Mobil that is told to make the very best oil you can for $1.752! Do you really think they are looking out for you? They are looking to do what they can with the $1.75 and stay within the new API and ILSAC specs and the profit mandates. You are not involved in the process.

This is why the aftermarket exists. It becomes customer driven, not corporate executive driven! Turners, cams, heads, exhausts, and yes specifically designed oils and fuel products to push the envelope really work!

It doesn't make it a feeling thing, it makes it a science thing and some people here just can't stand that there is something out there better and some people have found it and continue to use it.

The OP used our oils and then switched to conventional for a while to see the difference! He noticed gunk in the catch can that he never got with our oils. He called me to tell me about his experience and then decided to let others know what he found. That is what this forum is about. Sharing information: upgrades and mods!

It is a shame that some people can't stand that!:rolleyes2:

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 
#26 ·
WE use Mobile 1 Synthetic on all the Mopars that come into the shop.

There is NO reason to spend more than $6.00 a quart for Synthetic ANYTHING. Most Synthetics are all same, with the exception of the Castrol 0W40 made in Germany.

QuantumBlue is no better than Royal Purple, Amsoil, or other so called high end synthetic. I have used off the shelf Synthetics for over 15 years, and got 153K out of a 2.5 V6 for 10 years on the road, with no problems at trade, USING off the shelf synthetic oil. The only thing different thing I do; is find a larger filter over the OE size. Like, the 3.7 Jeep motor, rather than use the OE, I used the FL1-A, which is almost 100% bigger. Same with my 2.5 V6, that was supposed to use a Fram 16, I used an 8A instead, 50% larger. I Could see the better pressure on the gauge over the OE. With OE idle at operating temp, was about 1/8th up from the low line, and was 2/8ths up with the larger filter. Plus you got more volume, and more oil to cycle. The filters I get hold almost an entire quart once saturated.

I need to find the large equivalent for this car, and WILL use it.
 
#27 ·
WE use Mobile 1 Synthetic on all the Mopars that come into the shop.

There is NO reason to spend more than $6.00 a quart for Synthetic ANYTHING. Most Synthetics are all same, with the exception of the Castrol 0W40 made in Germany.

That is where you are uninformed. PAO synthetic is different than Para-synthetic, and different than ester based oils. This is the typical misconception. Exclusive materials developed for military and aerospace are in a group beyond PAO Group IV and Group V stocks. The Germans that do the ILSAC-GF-5 specs are no different than what we do here. Same reason that the 505.01 Audi RS-6 Spec isn't provided any longer!

QuantumBlue is no better than Royal Purple, Amsoil, or other so called high end synthetic.

QuantumBlue is much better than RP or Amsoil or other "synthetics" due to the fact that we don't use PAO base stocks, we don't use ZDP, we don't use acidic phosphorous, and we make a much larger molecule with 75% less volatility than RP, Amsoil, or other off the shelf oils. We don't use MOLY or BORON which are not good and have been found to cause problems in oil passages! You are simply uninformed by your statements!


I have used off the shelf Synthetics for over 15 years, and got 153K out of a 2.5 V6 for 10 years on the road, with no problems at trade, USING off the shelf synthetic oil.

Do you realize that the oil specs have changed 5 times since 1992! Do you realize that ILSAC was formed in that year? Do you realize the differences of the zinc phase down and the phosphorous changes? You can't compare an ILSAC GF-2 oil that was made from 1996 under API-SJ and EC-II to a GF-3 oil? Changes are happening as fast as your computer technology revolution is. Most of it is not for the better on longevity but for fuel economy and emissions.



The only thing different thing I do; is find a larger filter over the OE size. Like, the 3.7 Jeep motor, rather than use the OE, I used the FL1-A, which is almost 100% bigger. Same with my 2.5 V6, that was supposed to use a Fram 16, I used an 8A instead, 50% larger. I Could see the better pressure on the gauge over the OE. With OE idle at operating temp, was about 1/8th up from the low line, and was 2/8ths up with the larger filter. Plus you got more volume, and more oil to cycle. The filters I get hold almost an entire quart once saturated.

Do you realize on filters that changing the sizes without understanding the beta ratio and the bypass pressure can damage bearings? Filters can have a positive pitch or a negative pitch on the threads! Wrong pitch and your filter can back off. If the burst pressure is wrong, you can blow the canister off the engine or cause an internal failure! Doing something different doesn't necessarily make it better.

I need to find the large equivalent for this car, and WILL use it.
There are a lot of factors that are necessary to review and be aware of before you just go changing things. Spending time and money to make sure that things are correct while designing a better more robust lubricant isn't like mixing paint or putting on a different filter. It has to be engineered for the change. This is why modifications void warranties! When a vehicle is modified, the OEM spec'd lubricant doesn't match the increased pressures and stresses. This is why we custom design every gallon!;)

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC
440-821-9040 :driving:
www.bndautomotive.com
 
#29 ·
Oil threads are useless topics it's like politics. The left is the left, the middle is the middle and the right is the right. Some are persuaded to change sides but most are not. If someone thinks Pennzoil is the best oil ever made and they have never had any problems using it, it's gonna be hard to dissuade them from it. Just like QB, Mobil 1 , Castrol, etc... Until they have and engine failure or major problem and it is pinpointed by a mechanic that it was a break down of the oil that caused it most people won't change their minds about off the shelf oils or their special blended oils. As long as my dealership continues to charge 65.00 for a 7 quart plus filter synthetic oil change I'm going there. It's 63.79 to do it my self depending on what filter I use.
 
#30 ·
Oil threads are useless topics it's like politics. The left is the left, the middle is the middle and the right is the right. Some are persuaded to change sides but most are not.
Perhaps, but that's exactly the point of debate.

It's intended to invoke thought and self-evaluation of the points made. If even one person changes their mind, it's a worth while process. Even in politics, debates are considered useful tools to bring out fact, falsehoods, opinion and feeling so that folks can make an informed decision.

The great thing about debates is that they never end...and opinions evolve accordingly. Stagnation is the enemy of intellect and debate is the opposite of stagnation.
 
#33 ·
Wow! I did not mean to stir a hornet’s nest here. All I wanted to do was share some information that came from somewhere other than a forum that the lab commented on QB showing lower metal wear. I have used QB in the past but since I am selling my Charger I switched to Castrol but still use QB on my wife’s Grand Vitara because I have seen the oil analysis and I see the numbers lower than Mobile 1. Once I get my new vehicle I plan on using QB as well. I did share a pic with Brian that catchcan had gunk on the bottom after changing oil. I never had that gunk with QB in that past.
 
#35 ·
After adding it up, it would seem that Quantum Blue would cost me twice as much as putting Mobile 1 in my car.

My costs now on Mobil 1 synthetic + filter + tax = $53.82.

Quantum blue is 2 gallons QuantumBlue Custom Blended oil and one QuantumBlue Ultra High Performance oil Filter = $102.08 + Shipping.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Well actually, the Mobil 1 is only good for about 5k miles and produces more wear. QuantumBlue is designed for at least 10k miles and more like 12 to 15k miles per change.

Your Mobil 1 is a cheaper price but costs more due to the increase in drain intervals....not to mention more wear!

Here are two examples: First one is the OP's Grand Vitara.

http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160020

67 ppm of iron in 4,089 miles vs 21 ppm in 11,600 miles! That is 2.85 times longer on the same oil and 69% less bore wear than your Mobil 1.

Using your price example.....$53.82 x 2.85 = $153.39 vs $89.32. Remember that we make you 8 quarts....7 for your fill and one for top off. If you don't use the extra quart, you still have it available for the next change.

Here is the other:

http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157116

2008 Dodge Charger R/T 5.7L MDS Hemi. 86,760 miles on 7 oil changes. If we do the math on a Mobil 1 every 5k miles it would have cost him $933.88 @ $53.82 at that drain interval. QuantumBlue was $105.07 x 7 = $735.49. Not to mention 10 hours that Jed could be doing something else with besides doing oil changes!

Well these numbers do not lie about the protection of QuantumBlue Custom Blends.

His most recent is 14,899 miles on one change!

At the beginning, he started at 30,928 miles when he switched from Mobil 1 to QuantumBlue for his first oil change.

From that point, the oil changes went like this:

12,307 miles
11,286 miles
12,000 miles
11,106 miles
12,401 miles
12,761 miles
14,899 miles on his most recent one!

17 ppm iron divided by 14.899 = 1.14 ppm per 1000 miles!
0 chromium....no ring wear!
0 lead....no bearing wear!
4 ppm aluminum div by 14.899 = 26.8 100ths of 1 ppm per 1000 miles!
0 nickel....no valve wear!

So basically this engine now has 117,252 miles with the oil keeping this engine from wearing basically at all.

What are the dollars and cents?

Using this months special as an example.....$12.76 per quart x 7 = $89.32 + free oil filter = $89.32 + $15.75(shipping from Ohio to California) = $105.07.

$105.07 div by 14.899= $7.05 per 1000 miles.

Typical off the shelf synthetics are $6.75 per quart x 7 = $47.25 + $6.50 for an oil filter = $53.75 x 1.07 (tax) = $57.51. In your case you are stating $53.82. So we will use that:

$53.82 div by 5 = $10.764 per 1000 miles....assuming a 5k mile oil change.

So for 14,899 miles with typical synthetics would be $10.764 x 14.899 =$160.37!

So the numbers work out that your Mobil 1 is MORE expensive than QuantumBlue for your 2012 and will be better protected from our custom blends. ;)

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 
#37 ·
No offense, but anyone that runs a synthetic, including Mobil 1 for only 5k miles is throwing away money. Even the factory suggestions go farther than that with conventional oil.

It would be more believable if you used real numbers...

Mobil 1 extended use, 15k miles. $26/ 5 quarts at Walmart. I ran it last time out to 12k and it still had plenty of life.

I ran the walmart brand Supertech CONVENTIONAL DINO OIL longer than 5k miles, and it still had plenty to go....

This is where I start to question you, when you use ridiculous numbers to justify cost differential.

I hope you understand.
 
#38 · (Edited)
I am using real numbers. The Mobil 1 extended use 15k mile oil doesn't protect much beyond regular Mobil 1 and should never be used for 15k miles. Even the back of the label recommends to not change it longer than the manufacturer of the car recommends. Basically it is marketing not science. Let Staveley or CTC or ALS do the analysis and you will find that these oils you are touting are not all that.

The conventional oils you say are ok give a lot more wear than my oils at 15k miles.

I posted Mobil 1 at 4,089 miles and compared directly against our oils at 11,600 miles. That is realistic and used in the same vehicle with the same application. That is apples to apples. We have posted many changes in different vehicles and showed empirically that our products stand up and perform better than off the shelf oils.

The problem Jonny is that you will claim with your own analysis that it is ok, but will turn around and then say that analysis isn't indicative of results. You can't have it both ways.

Our QuantumBlue Custom blends are simply better, prove it with continual analysis over many thousands of cars, and have customers that can tell the difference when they change the oils. Mobil 1 is black in 3,000 miles and ours is chocolate brown at 12k miles. That tells you a lot about what our materials do. More cushion, better mileage and cheaper in the end.

I know YOU understand.;)

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 
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