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Oil Change Interval Questions

5K views 26 replies 11 participants last post by  Jonny 
#1 · (Edited)
I have a new 12 SXT V6/8spd that I am breaking in. Owner's manual says first oil change at 8,000 miles. Mine has 110 hours and 3500 miles in about 2.5 months and the information notice on the dash has idicated time for a change. I'm getting about 28 mpg so I don't think I am too spirited of a driver, but that seems a little soon. Anyone know what contributes to that indicator coming on? Why so soon? If I am tough on it, should I change my oil type? I see a lot of synthetic fans here and read postings for BND and others. If I do that, will I have to keep track of intervals myself or will I be constantly nagged by the oil change due notice? How would I then know that it is time for a change if there is that much variability in the interval?
 
#2 · (Edited)
Feel free to have a look at this thread and give it a good read since many of us have asked the same question before. Based on the information you should already be pulling your conventional oil and changing to something else. If you can afford to use QB lubricants I'd make the switch. Here's the link:

http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159383

Also feel free to PM Brian from BnD Automotive. He can answer any question you have regarding off the shelf oils and the advantages of his products. His site screen name is 370_HEMI.

Hope that helps,

Andy
 
#3 ·
8k is the most you can go. Always change the oil when the indicator says it is time! (but don't go more than 8k)

The first change is usually around 2500...
 
#4 · (Edited)
I have a new 12 SXT V6/8spd that I am breaking in. Owner's manual says first oil change at 8,000 miles.

I would never go anywhere near that mileage on the first change! You have a double over head cam (DOHC) engine with 4 valves! It is also a variable valve timing engine with cam phasers. The oil is used to phase the cams. Conventional oils will tend to gum up in this engine with the type of heat you will generate.


Mine has 110 hours and 3500 miles in about 2.5 months and the information notice on the dash has idicated time for a change.

I would definitely change it out where you are. Now remember that the in dash indicator is based on algorithm and not the condition of the oil. We can make a really good 8.5w32 QuantumBlue HP Custom Blend 3.6L VVT Formula for you that would easily go 10k miles between changes.

I'm getting about 28 mpg so I don't think I am too spirited of a driver, but that seems a little soon. Anyone know what contributes to that indicator coming on? Why so soon?

Chrysler uses a Flexible Service System or FSS. As stated earlier, it is comprised of algorithms to predict oil change intervals. The algorithms are based primarily on factors such as driving habits, driving speed, and failure to replenish low oil levels. Chrysler's research determined that these factors contribute to oil breakdown. (So again, it is the oil that is at issue here!)

The algorithm method systems basically monitor time between oil changes, vehicle speed, coolant temperature, load signal, engine rpm, engine oil temperature and engine oil level to determine the remaining time and mileage before the next oil change.


If I am tough on it, should I change my oil type? I see a lot of synthetic fans here and read postings for BND and others.

Remember that what the oil is comprised of makes ALL the difference with what drain intervals you keep. We recommend 3k miles on conventional, 5k miles on typical off the shelf synthetics, and 10k miles on QuantumBlue. We always recommend an oil analysis to verify what is going on in the engine. We have done many 3.6L VVT engines....two of which are owned by us personally (2011 Avenger Lux and 2011 Grand Caravan R/T). 10k on QB with these engines are loafing it!

If I do that, will I have to keep track of intervals myself or will I be constantly nagged by the oil change due notice? How would I then know that it is time for a change if there is that much variability in the interval?
You can keep track yourself by pegging a 10k mile number or we can remind you after a certain period of time. 3,500 miles div by 2.5 months = 1,400 miles per month. This means you would need to change the oil every 7.14 months @ 10k miles. If the oil analysis shows we are still good, we could take it to 12k or until the oil analysis sais we have gone far enough. We do have some customers with 5.7 and 6.1L Hemis that are going 15k miles per oil change.

http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157116

It is up to you. We would love to help protect your 3.6L like we have done for so many other customers. :bigthumb:

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 
#5 ·
Iam,

Once the oil change indicator is reset it will come back on based on input from multiple sensors on the vehicle. It will not take into account the type of oil you use. 6 months or 8,000 miles is the longest that you are recommended to go in the manual even if the change oil light does not come on.
 
#6 ·
Now that all of that is over. Run down to Walmart and buy ya a filter and a 5 qt jug of synthetic in your choice of flavors and change your oil. My V-6 takes more than 5 so I get an extra qt while I'm there..Mobil 1 is very good. So is pretty much any good synthetic oil on the market and almost all will get you 8k on an oil change..

Griz
 
#8 ·
Thanks everyone! It's been 12 years since I bought a car and I want to take care of this one. I appreciate the difference of opinion and the useful info. I was a little worried that maybe my wife was taking the car out and testing 0-60 while I was at work, but I guess the interval is about as expected. I've always been a 3k/conventional user for my other cars (which are well beyond 200k) but I think over that time-frame synthetic or QB might be the most cost-effective.
 
#9 ·
Remember this, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and will do what they feel is right. However, opinions are anacdotal and are based on feelings and what they have read or what they have done in the past or even what they have read from the marketing arms of all these oil companies.

When we discuss what QB does and compare it to what is out there on the shelves, it is by fact and by oil analysis to derive the results.......not anacdotal assumptive knowledge!

Oils have changed so dramatically in formulation in just the last 2-3 years alone due to the specifications changing by the manufacturers. These specs are pushed on them by the EPA and the government to higher Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) numbers and emission standards that are ever more strict.

Engineers that I have talked to in all the majors have repeatedly reminded me that 4.6 to 5.8 years is all the usable life they build into the cars. They remind me too that the warranty is 5 years or 100k. 5 years will be up before 100k form 90% of the customers. They get really angry when I discuss the ability to make these engine, transmission, and differential systems last 15 to 20 years if a customer wants to.

For them it is a business of turning over the cars....for us it is a love of the cars and working for the customer and not the manufacturer.

We would love to have your business and help you protect your new car.;)

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 
#10 ·
I buy three 5 quart jugs of synthetic at Walmart, along with two Mopar oil filters. Good for two full oil changes with some left over. Costs well under $100 for 2 full oil changes, and good for up to 30k miles if you get Mobil 1 extended use.

I've done oil analysis with many oils in my car, the Mobil 1 extended use really does well, as it states.
 
#14 ·
well i just bought my 2012 charger rt new a couple months ago. i went to their owners meeting and the recomended change the oil every 3700 miles. i will use a full synthetic when i change my oil here in a little bit but i would never go past 5000 thats just me. thats what i recomend but to each his or her own.
 
#15 ·
Jonny, that's very interesting and I wonder how much of that conventional test benefited from the previous use of synthetic. I wonder by how much values will go up next time, or if they will remain stable.
 
#18 ·
Any change in values would more likely have been affected by different driving conditions than the type of oil I used... I've tested many types and brands. They all protect about the same... depending on conditions.

Do you really believe that the oil I used last month is still having an effect on my engine today? I put in 7 quarts, I take out very near 7 quarts. It isn't like enough previous oil stays in the engine to provide miracle protection. I understand, there is some residual oil... but I consider it to be an inconsequential amount to affect anything. Oil will certainly permeate the metals, but that is not how oils protect metal from wear.

Any modern API certified oil has a fairly high amount of detergency...
 
#16 ·
Remember to multiply the numbers on that sample by 2.4 to come up with what the sample will look like at 15k miles.

Also, conventional oils produce more pooled gum and varnish on especially hot spots and can attract particulates and artificially show lower numbers than even synthetic oils do initially. You can tell this by comparing his sample of the last two changes with the synthetic. One would conclude the the Supertech oil is better than the previous synthetics....which isn't true!

A very high detergent oil will release these and make the numbers look worse initially like what our QuantumBlue would do.

Here are 6 samples from a 5.7L Hemi averaging 12,394 miles per change

the oil changes went like this:

12,307 miles
11,286 miles
12,000 miles
11,106 miles
12,401 miles
12,761 miles
14,899 miles on his most recent one!



17 ppm iron divided by 14.899 = 1.14 ppm per 1000 miles!
0 chromium....no ring wear!
0 lead....no bearing wear!
4 ppm aluminum div by 14.899 = 26.8 100ths of 1 ppm per 1000 miles!
0 nickel....no valve wear!

So basically this engine now has 117,252 miles with the oil keeping this engine from wearing basically at all.

Conventional wear will increase dramatically if he went 15 or 18k miles on that change with Supertech. He is also living on what the other oils did before it.;)

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
 
#17 ·
Remember to multiply the numbers on that sample by 2.4 to come up with what the sample will look like at 15k miles.

From the oil analysis samples I have seen, this statement just isn't true. One would think it is just a static rise in particulates, but there are far too many variables, as you well know, Brian.

Also, conventional oils produce more pooled gum and varnish on especially hot spots and can attract particulates and artificially show lower numbers than even synthetic oils do initially. You can tell this by comparing his sample of the last two changes with the synthetic. One would conclude the the Supertech oil is better than the previous synthetics....which isn't true!

Interesting, as you are always saying synthetics are no good, and why you make your oil from conventional base stock. I agree with my oil analysis lab, their professional opinion, based on seeing many hundreds of thousands of oil samples, is that oil is oil, sythetic holds up just as good or better than conventional oil:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/faq.php
"What's the best oil to use?
Ah, the million dollar question. We are an independent lab, so we don't make recommendations. It has been our experience that oil is oil, and either petroleum or synthetic-based oil will work well for just about any engine."
A very high detergent oil will release these and make the numbers look worse initially like what our QuantumBlue would do.


Conventional wear will increase dramatically if he went 15 or 18k miles on that change with Supertech. He is also living on what the other oils did before it.;)

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com
No one is suggesting or has suggested going 15 or 18k miles on ANY oil without doing an oil analysis...
 
#20 ·
Jonny, What I meant was that an engine run extensively with a cleaner oil may still look good even after going back to a conventional because there hasn't been an accumulated amount of time back on a product producing sludge, etc. and the interval is shorter so there would be less wear metals due to the shorter interval change. However, you show two changes on supertech so I might be wrong. I don't believe in magic oil having an affect long after it is gone! Although reading my post again, I can see how you could read it that way! I was thinking of it in terms of a smoothly running motor slowly getting roughed up again.
The equivalent readings based on time on your latest oil change would be about 5 on aluminum and about 30 with iron in comparison to the one posted by 370 on a per mile basis, so you are getting about twice the iron wear and about the 25% more aluminum wear with the supertech, but overall not bad. From what I see, the synthetics are not much different than the conventional.

I have to change my oil this weekend because the miles keep going up and I have some driving to do. I will conserve some for the test kit I ordered, and check again the next couple changes to see what is going on and get some QB in there. That might be a benefit for the whole community, or at least for us little guys, the pentastar v6 drivers!
 
#21 ·
I pretty much understood what you were saying. I'm just not sure I buy into a significant amount of particulates, out of suspension, becoming suspended into the next oil change. Does that make sense?

Also, as far as comparing two different cars using two different oils... or even the same car with two different oils, but under different conditions... that's like comparing apples and oranges. They both are very similar, yet so different. :bigthumb:

If we can pick (cherry picking...) the cars for store bought synthetics to use as a baseline, I would choose to use a certain 2006 R/T with 200k+ miles...

Same car/engine I have... same oil I've used.... different conditions!

Don't go by the results someone else got with an oil. Try it yourself, have it analyzed by a lab that YOU choose, and be sure that you are the one sending it to the lab, and receiving the results.

If it works great for you, excellent!

I try not to put too much weight on manufacturers claims, they all say they are the best.

 
#23 ·
Here is the initial report on the first oil change in case anyone is curious. The oil was replaced with Mobil 1 5W-30 and I will run a report on that next for comparison. Now I am just curious to see how this goes over time.
 

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#24 ·
Congrats on doing the initial fill!

I did the same thing with my Hemi and had similar results. It took quite awhile for the wear metals to settle down.

You have a good baseline now to observe any trends.

My first analysis with the factory fill:

 
#25 ·
It has always been obvious to me that a dioplification index below 90 creates a better wear pattern. This is achieved by getting the normalized average of the Centistoke value (mentioned earlier) and multiplying it by the gravitational transpondence generated during the last tri-planet alignment. Keeping this above 68% allows the Johnson rod to spin smoother with less bi-chromial flake off (a good thing). I hope this information is has been as helpful as some of the other fluff in this thread.

This topic creates more fire than any other on the forum (except maybe lower temp thermostats). Do yourself a favor - buy good, high detergent oil of the correct viscosity, buy a good filter, change them at the recommeneded intervals and be done with all the hype.
 
#26 ·
Rodneyiii that is hilarious!! Do I have your permission to use that on someone someday? I see your perspective and that is fine. I think it is the scientist in me (I run a university research lab) combined with my interest in my new cool car and the fact that I normally run my cars to about 250K miles that is compelling me to do this. Really I am just curious and I have the spare change to check this out. Like any other hobby, it is difficult to justify spending time and resource on it beyond saying that I like it and it makes me happy. If I didn't want to have fun, I would take the bus or bought a Corolla!
 
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