My 3.5 got Supercharged

[Johnparts]

Well guys I finally got her on the dyno here are the results.
http://www.modern-muscle.com/albums/modern_muscle_products/comparison.jpg
The red graph is my stock dyno results and The Blue is with 10 PSI No Intercooler No Meth

[sandt]

Can you educate us that like me, know little to nothing about SC and intercoolers/meth?

Also, is the dip in the graph at 5250 normal for a SC engine?

[LongDriving]

Cool - nice idea

[desertcharger]

Nice-
can't wait to see the 1/4 times:rocker:

[PerfRacer]

Very nice! Congrats. I'll bet it feels like a whole new ride now... 300+ rwhp is nothing to sneeze at. You're going to surprize alot of adversaries...

[LongDriving]

Make sure you keep that V6 High Output badge on the car. That will scare some people :bigthumb:

[Tresigns]

Not trying to thread jack.

Guys... please educate me.

I have a 3.5 and was interested in this but I saw the price and this is what I was thinking.

I saw where this kit is like $4300 i think.

Why would someone pay that instead of just getting an RT?

If this is a stupid question forgive me. Im new to the superchargers and all that performance talk.:slap:

[PerfRacer]

Not trying to thread jack.

Guys... please educate me.

I have a 3.5 and was interested in this but I saw the price and this is what I was thinking.

I saw where this kit is like $4300 i think.

Why would someone pay that instead of just getting an RT?

If this is a stupid question forgive me. Im new to the superchargers and all that performance talk.:slap:

There are lots of reasons, bro. One of the biggest is not being able to trade out because of loan values, where too much is owed on the car. There are also reason such as having alot into a car (custom work, paint, mods, etc), when the need for more power arises, so you can only work with what you have. And, then there are some folks who want to walk that line between the 3.5 and a HEMI. Where they have the insurance of a V6, but almost as much power as a HEMI, if not more. 300+rwhp is about on par with a CAI and cat-back equipped 5.7 HEMI car...

[Tresigns]

There are lots of reasons, bro. One of the biggest is not being able to trade out because of loan values, where too much is owed on the car. There are also reason such as having alot into a car (custom work, paint, mods, etc), when the need for more power arises, so you can only work with what you have. And, then there are some folks who want to walk that line between the 3.5 and a HEMI. Where they have the insurance of a V6, but almost as much power as a HEMI, if not more. 300+rwhp is about on par with a CAI and cat-back equipped 5.7 HEMI car...

Ah! Thx for breaking that down for me.

I guess i need to just start saving my duckies:bigthumb:

[desertcharger]

Where they have the insurance of a V6, but almost as much power as a HEMI, if not more. 300+rwhp is about on par with a CAI and cat-back equipped 5.7 HEMI car...

08Stonedcharger was only putting out 288 rwhp before his SC, so 300 is definitely R/T territory--
BUT
Our torque numbers are much higher than the ones reported here, so a lineup should be interesting:beerchug:

that's why I am so interested in knowing the 1/4 mile time- it will put the numbers in perspective! IDK what the power to weight ratio would be...anyone?
:bigthumb:

[blackspeeddevil]

i want to see pictures of the supercharger.. dam 300+ hp is awesome for a v6.. how much was the set up

[Johnparts]

Well there is a thread in the Modern Muscle vendor section about the kit. Pricing is out for the tuner kits but is not out for the Full kits.

Here is a link to the thread.
http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98298

And here is a link with some photo's
http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96138

[Johnparts]

Oh and here is a video of the car on the dyno.
Here is a Nice Video of the car on the dyno
BaCQw1lZtv4

[sandt]

There are lots of reasons, bro. One of the biggest is not being able to trade out because of loan values, where too much is owed on the car. There are also reason such as having alot into a car (custom work, paint, mods, etc), when the need for more power arises, so you can only work with what you have. And, then there are some folks who want to walk that line between the 3.5 and a HEMI. Where they have the insurance of a V6, but almost as much power as a HEMI, if not more. 300+rwhp is about on par with a CAI and cat-back equipped 5.7 HEMI car...

Well said.

If you do the math (which may be wrong) but the 300hp to the wheels is about 400 hp from the crank which is a 5.7 + :D

Someone correct me if I'm wrong ... here is how I got that
We are assuming we loose 25% + to the wheels
250 (crank) * 75% = 187.5 (wheels)
or 187.5 (wheels)/75% = 250 (crank)
So working backwards ....
300 (wheels)/75% = 400 (crank)

How that equates (if it's correct) at the track given what Stoned has said about the torque numbers compared to the 5.7 is still to be seen, but it a good investment I think for those looking for more hp and can't/won't make the trade or purchase to the 5.7

[charger08srt]

nice power increase:rocker:

[Man of Blue Steel]

Well said.

If you do the math (which may be wrong) but the 300hp to the wheels is about 400 hp from the crank which is a 5.7 + :D

Someone correct me if I'm wrong ... here is how I got that
We are assuming we loose 25% + to the wheels
250 (crank) * 75% = 187.5 (wheels)
or 187.5 (wheels)/75% = 250 (crank)
So working backwards ....
300 (wheels)/75% = 400 (crank)

How that equates (if it's correct) at the track given what Stoned has said about the torque numbers compared to the 5.7 is still to be seen, but it a good investment I think for those looking for more hp and can't/won't make the trade or purchase to the 5.7
Typical loss is around ~18% so I'm guessing...360 at the Crank.

Nice numbers regardless. Looks like it would be a good race for a stock R/T. The Hemi would probably pull you outta the hole but, you'll run him down on the topendo f the powerband. What rear gears do the 3.5s have? That could very well be the difference.

[sandt]

Typical loss is around ~18% so I'm guessing...360 at the Crank.

Nice numbers regardless.

18% for the SXT would be great but the #'s don't suggest that. If that were true, we'd be seeing dynos for stock V6s at 205 ... which isn't the case.

[modern-muscle]

http://www.modern-muscle.com/albums/modern_muscle_products/P1100296.JPG

[Man of Blue Steel]

18% for the SXT would be great but the #'s don't suggest that. If that were true, we'd be seeing dynos for stock V6s at 205 ... which isn't the case.
Just going by this one dyno, it's 28%!? (Assuming 250 HP?? Don't know a lot about the 3.5...)

Any word on the gears for the 3.5? What's the ratio?

[Johnparts]

My Rear gear is the 2.82 I have the 5-Speed trans

[thelilmarine]

Just going by this one dyno, it's 28%!? (Assuming 250 HP?? Don't know a lot about the 3.5...)

Any word on the gears for the 3.5? What's the ratio?

according to Hemichemi here are the gear ratios.

The Charger SE is 2.87

The Charger SXT is 2.87

The Charger RT and Daytona is 2.82

The Charger SRT8 is 3.06

and... more....

The reason for the different gears is due to the transmissions. The rear housing is the same for all V-6 cars and therefor should be interchangeable.


The 300 options
All the 2.7 V-6 comes with the 4-speed trans and 3.90 gears.
The RWD 3.5 V-6 comes with the 5-speed trans and 3.64 gears.


On the Magnum options.
The 2.7 V-6 comes with the 4-speed trans and 3.90 gears.
The RWD 3.5 V-6 comes with the 5-speed trans and 3.90 gears.
The AWD 3.5 V-6 comes with the 5-speed trans and 3.07 gears.

The charger options
All chargers come with the 5 speed trans. The only V-6 available is the 3.5 and the only gear available for the 3.5 is 2.87.

Conclusions based on the Dodge web site info.
All LX cars that have the 2.7 v-6 come with a 4-speed trans and 3.90 gears.
The 3.64 gears where available in the 300 with the 5 speed trans so it should be a direct bolt in and the dealer should be able to program the speedometer with the starscan because it would be the same as the 300 with 3.64 gears.
I don’t know why the 300 gets the 3.64 gears with the 3.5 V-6 and the charger gets 2.87.
The cars weight the same so you should the performance impact of switching from 2.87 to 3.64 just be comparing the 300 3.5 with the Charger 3.5.

The same goes with the 3.90 gears that come in the Magnum 3.5 V-6, if this was really an option or if it is a misprint on the Dodge web site.
It is a mystery to me why the AWD Magnum 3.5 V-6 gets 3.07 gears and the RWD Mag 3.5 V-6 gets 3.90. I think the Dodge web site could be wrong.


not thread jacking i hope. But it follows the topic at hand. Basically they were talking about the maginums, and the 300's. The gears should be innerchangable for our cars. would be a huge jump for the 3.5's to jump from a 2.87 to a 3.9. :D

[dudeiwin86]

according to Hemichemi here are the gear ratios.

The Charger SE is 2.87

The Charger SXT is 2.87

The Charger RT and Daytona is 2.82

The Charger SRT8 is 3.06

and... more....



not thread jacking i hope. But it follows the topic at hand. Basically they were talking about the maginums, and the 300's. The gears should be innerchangable for our cars. would be a huge jump for the 3.5's to jump from a 2.87 to a 3.9. :D

the r/t is a 210mm diff.
the srt is a 215mm diff.
i dont even know about the v6's size diffs, but its not as easy as you think.
the r/t is a 3 bolt yoke, srt is 4 bolt
the v6 cars with the 4 speed have a much higher gear ration than the 5 speed

theres so many rear end combinations on this platform its freaking STUPID.. especially with the 2009 cars out now.


im amazed at how the car is making peak power at 6200 or more rpms... its not even falling off...
i think you need a cam thats going to bring that peak power down, and bring that torque up in return. then it might be a little closer to hemi power

by the time your getting to peak, you have to shift.

theres a lot of advantages to having a v6 outside of the hunt for power.
lower insurance
lower monthly payments
less cost in gas
retains a better percent of its retail/resale value in the current market

and considering the superchargers for the hemis cost at a minimum a thousand dollars more than this.. (well, they do typically include intercoolers) this is a pretty good deal.

looking forward to seeing more customization on teh tune with meth and maybe new cams

[modern-muscle]

the r/t is a 210mm diff.
the srt is a 215mm diff.
i dont even know about the v6's size diffs, but its not as easy as you think.
the r/t is a 3 bolt yoke, srt is 4 bolt
the v6 cars with the 4 speed have a much higher gear ration than the 5 speed

theres so many rear end combinations on this platform its freaking STUPID.. especially with the 2009 cars out now.


im amazed at how the car is making peak power at 6200 or more rpms... its not even falling off...
i think you need a cam thats going to bring that peak power down, and bring that torque up in return. then it might be a little closer to hemi power

by the time your getting to peak, you have to shift.

theres a lot of advantages to having a v6 outside of the hunt for power.
lower insurance
lower monthly payments
less cost in gas
retains a better percent of its retail/resale value in the current market

and considering the superchargers for the hemis cost at a minimum a thousand dollars more than this.. (well, they do typically include intercoolers) this is a pretty good deal.

looking forward to seeing more customization on teh tune with meth and maybe new cams

So far the intercooler has not been proven to be Needed in this application, Pluss the added cost of the Intercooler would put this kit in Hemi Pricing areas so it has been left out for now. We do plan on testing an intercooled version of the kit as soon as weather in Illinois tells us we can but it's cold out here and we wouldn't see the real test of it's affects with this weather.

[dudeiwin86]

So far the intercooler has not been proven to be Needed in this application, Pluss the added cost of the Intercooler would put this kit in Hemi Pricing areas so it has been left out for now. We do plan on testing an intercooled version of the kit as soon as weather in Illinois tells us we can but it's cold out here and we wouldn't see the real test of it's affects with this weather.

very cool
*edit* no pun intended lol

[FlMango1832]

Bro with some meth that baby is going to gain a substantial amount of power.

[Fr8Man]

Referring to an earlier post by MS. D.
With this type of set up, shouldn't the "normal" driving characteristics remain almost unchanged? By that I mean fuel economy, drive-ability, etc.

If so, it would make for a wonderful sleeper...:beerchug:

I think I'm showing my age there.....:D

[modern-muscle]

Referring to an earlier post by MS. D.
With this type of set up, shouldn't the "normal" driving characteristics remain almost unchanged? By that I mean fuel economy, drive-ability, etc.

If so, it would make for a wonderful sleeper...:beerchug:

I think I'm showing my age there.....:D

Actually the supercharger allows the engine to do less work to get the car moving so the fuel milage will actually see an increase if you drive the car normally. Now if you are heavy footed there is the chance your milage will go down but you do get the Sleeper aspect.

[SRT8Tech]

Its interesting to see how the long and short runner valves work in the intake. You can see when the long runner valve opens on the dyno graph. I wonder how it would run if it was open all the time. Im sure a CMR could do some things differnt with the valves to make the power curve more flat and not drop then go back up again.

[modern-muscle]

Its interesting to see how the long and short runner valves work in the intake. You can see when the long runner valve opens on the dyno graph. I wonder how it would run if it was open all the time. Im sure a CMR could do some things differnt with the valves to make the power curve more flat and not drop then go back up again.

We tested all combinations. Actually, where the power picks up again is where we just close the short runner. The long runner is a total turd down low all by itself. This is the best power profile we could get with different combinations of runner configurations.

[asonitez]

which supercharger kit is it?

[Ron380]

^^ Post #12:

Well there is a thread in the Modern Muscle vendor section about the kit. Pricing is out for the tuner kits but is not out for the Full kits.

Here is a link to the thread.
http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98298

And here is a link with some photo's
http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96138

:bigthumb:

[NBx33]

There are lots of reasons, bro. One of the biggest is not being able to trade out because of loan values, where too much is owed on the car. There are also reason such as having alot into a car (custom work, paint, mods, etc), when the need for more power arises, so you can only work with what you have. And, then there are some folks who want to walk that line between the 3.5 and a HEMI. Where they have the insurance of a V6, but almost as much power as a HEMI, if not more. 300+rwhp is about on par with a CAI and cat-back equipped 5.7 HEMI car...

well put

[PerfRacer]

well put

Well, thank you . :D lol

I still this is an impressive package. And, I hope to see more of them out there...

[Brad SXT]

Any idea of how this would work in a 4spd? I've read that the NAG1 can handle alot of power increase, but what about the 4 speed they throw in these cars now?

[marshall9779]

Any 1/4 mi times yet?

[ChargerS.X.T]

Any idea of how this would work in a 4spd? I've read that the NAG1 can handle alot of power increase, but what about the 4 speed they throw in these cars now?

The 4 speed is much weaker, I wouldn't do it.

[blindpig]

The 4 speed is much weaker, I wouldn't do it.

I hope you're wrong. :D Is there any info to back this up?

[Evil Valk]

I hope you're wrong. :D Is there any info to back this up?

Everything I have heard about/for the 4 speed is if youre thinking of getting a SC you should upgrade your tranny to NAG1

[ChicagoSRT8]

Well guys I finally got her on the dyno here are the results.
http://www.modern-muscle.com/albums/modern_muscle_products/comparison.jpg
The red graph is my stock dyno results and The Blue is with 10 PSI No Intercooler No Meth

sweet!!
i can only imagine how you must feel with the power difference.
Congrats and hope to see you around some time!:rocker:

[Pyrate]

Everything I have heard about/for the 4 speed is if youre thinking of getting a SC you should upgrade your tranny to NAG1

Ok so we established and opinion so far
but is there any factual research behind this?

[BLKCHARGER]

That 4speed is the same as whats used in the Minivans and previous Chryslers...

Old Chrysler transmissions are terrible. Ask anyone...

[Pyrate]

a common consensus that a tranny is not as good is not actual fact based evidence that it cant be used with a supercharger.

Dont think you will get an argument that the 5 speed is a better tranny
you might get an argument that you should not do the sc if you have a four.
that is what we are all trying to get at.

If the sc should not be used on a 4 speed, I would think MM would tell us so. No?

[blindpig]

Well, I'll be finding out if the 4 speed can handle once I get my s/c installed.

[Pyrate]

I hear you, they even make torque converters now.
the hp drop in these drive trains is huge

BP have you talked with MM about the 4 speed being able to handle the increase?
seems I read somewhere they said it would be fine

[WstTXSE]

I might have missed it but is the complete kit for sale, if so where? Thank you in advance for your responses.

[Darnice]

That 4speed is the same as whats used in the Minivans and previous Chryslers...

Old Chrysler transmissions are terrible. Ask anyone...

They sure shift better than the NAG1, and they don't leak and they are not german crap. NAG's shift like crap.

I have put over 300,000 miles on the 4 speeds, no issues EVER! other than scheduled fluid and filter changes.

The 4 speed is a fine transmission, in fact i bet it fails less than the NAG1 in current form. Its pretty much bullet proof today.

What will happen under increased load, well as anything it will wear faster and probably adding an external tranny cooler would be a good idea. But just take care of it and it should be fine.

[Evil Valk]

Are we talking an A-604 tranny? Is that the one in the 4 speeds? If it is, a lot of transmission specialists will say a 604 tranny can tolerate about 275-300 HP stress. So that means a supercharger and thats it, MAYBE a CAI, but no CAM/Headers/TB, nothing too crazy besides that SC.

Thats what I have been told by mechanics at my dealer and various auto bodies around where i live about 604's, were not talking reliability, were talking stress on the tranny itself. If were not talking about the 604's then I dont know lol

[QuickSRT8]

They sure shift better than the NAG1, and they don't leak and they are not german crap. NAG's shift like crap.

I have put over 300,000 miles on the 4 speeds, no issues EVER! other than scheduled fluid and filter changes.

The 4 speed is a fine transmission, in fact i bet it fails less than the NAG1 in current form. Its pretty much bullet proof today.

What will happen under increased load, well as anything it will wear faster and probably adding an external tranny cooler would be a good idea. But just take care of it and it should be fine.
:confused:
Well, I don't know about everyone else's "german crap" but my Nag1 shifts hard - my wife hates it when I use autostick when she's in the car because of how it snaps her head back when it shifts. Of course I am using the firmer shift setting on my predator to get these results but my experience with my tranny is that it shifts hard like an older trans with a shift kit in it...
I don't think that 'bulletproof' 4 speed would last long in my RT anyway...

[psycheus]

Very Nice work! I like it. The last time I asked about supercharging a 3.5L V6 they laughed at me and said get an RT.

[Pyrate]

wonder what it does to your gas milage lol

[Ron380]

Actually, if you drive "nice" and for regular highway cruising... your mileage goes UP with a supercharger! :grin:

With no serious load on the engine, the SC is still packing more air into the chambers. ;)

[BLKCHARGER]

They sure shift better than the NAG1, and they don't leak and they are not german crap. NAG's shift like crap.

I have put over 300,000 miles on the 4 speeds, no issues EVER! other than scheduled fluid and filter changes.

The 4 speed is a fine transmission, in fact i bet it fails less than the NAG1 in current form. Its pretty much bullet proof today.

What will happen under increased load, well as anything it will wear faster and probably adding an external tranny cooler would be a good idea. But just take care of it and it should be fine.

I personally have seen 5 of those crappy 4-speed Chrysler transmissions bite the dust from regular driving... Maybe you had some extraordinary ones...

In any event, enjoy! :rocker::beerchug:

[jr300]

are you useing the pedator to retard your timing in boost? or something else?

[desertcharger]

Actually, if you drive "nice" and for regular highway cruising... your mileage goes UP with a supercharger! :grin:

With no serious load on the engine, the SC is still packing more air into the chambers. ;)

I don't know about all systems- but I went from 25- 36 mpg to 16- 21 mpg with my supercharger-
well worth it- but a definite decrease.
The top numbers were all achieved cruising on long trips.:beerchug:

[Pyrate]

I personally have seen 5 of those crappy 4-speed Chrysler transmissions bite the dust from regular driving... Maybe you had some extraordinary ones...

In any event, enjoy! :rocker::beerchug:

so how many did they manufacture?
so 5 out of ahhhh thousands
LOL

[Virk--]

Will installing a supercharger void my warranty?

[fluffykush]

I don't know about all systems- but I went from 25- 36 mpg to 16- 21 mpg with my supercharger-
well worth it- but a definite decrease.
The top numbers were all achieved cruising on long trips.:beerchug:

divided by 2. :)

[RitzRT]

so how many did they manufacture?
so 5 out of ahhhh thousands
LOL

Isn't the 4spd the same as the 42LE used in the old LH Chryslers? Had one in my 300m. The parasitic losses in power seemed a bit high. In the 30,000 miles that I owned mine (until the soon-to-be-ex-wife totaled it), both the input and output speed sensors failed. Both failures happened while I was on a long trip and required me to spend a day or two at whatever local stealer I could find as the trans immediately kicked into limp-mode both times. I also recall a lot of Prowler owners who hotrodded their engines that destroyed their transmissions.

When it wasn't broken, it did shift nicely though. I used to regularly get about 27mpg on the highway with it too (in a '99 300m).

Best,

[Hemi31]

I seriously doubt the trans in the LH's,Minivans and older Chryslers is the same....be kinda difficult since they were all FRONT WHEEL DRIVE.

[RitzRT]

I seriously doubt the trans in the LH's,Minivans and older Chryslers is the same....be kinda difficult since they were all FRONT WHEEL DRIVE.

And a hyphoid ring and pinion final drive and chain assembly were used to transmit the power from the transmission (since it was initially designed as a FWD transmission, but the LH cars and Prowler had longitudinally mounted engines) to the wheels. The Prowler was RWD and used the same transmission (and 3.5L V6) as the 300m. There was even an aftermarket sprocket/chain upgrade for folks that wanted a slightly shorter final gear ratio.

Best,

[groove269]

sooo...do us 4-speed folks need to upgrade to use the SC?

[jr300]

anything new with this setup?

[dejuan7]

I'll get one when we can get some more torque..

[NBChargerSXT]

So if im getting this right, we 3.5L's that are bone stock can just up and slap on a supercharger and not blow up under daily driving and occasional racing? (One or two 1/4 mile per week). Also, in the summer a meth/water kit would help cooling the rapid increase in temperature therefore acting as further protection while increasing hp and ft lbs?

Just looking for verification on this, thinking about a SC soon and if this is all true i'll deffinitley order :D

[08Black3.5SE+]

I personally have seen 5 of those crappy 4-speed Chrysler transmissions bite the dust from regular driving... Maybe you had some extraordinary ones...

In any event, enjoy! :rocker::beerchug:

for the record- the 4 speed thats paired to the LX's was NEVER used in minivans.

The 42LE was modified in 2003 as the 42RLE, originally for the then-new Jeep Liberty. It is a 42LE transaxle, modified for RWD use by removing the integral differential and transfer chain. Power flow exits the rear of the now transmission. The case has also been modified. This transmission will reportedly remain in production through the end of the decade in several models. Applications:

* 42RLE
o 2005-present Chrysler 300
o 2006-present Dodge Charger
o 2004-present Dodge Dakota
o 2004-present Dodge Durango
o 2005-2008 Dodge Magnum
o 2007-present Dodge Nitro
o 2003-present Jeep Liberty
o 2003-present Jeep Wrangler
o 2009 Dodge Challenger V6

[foco13]

great job man

[lovin' it]

Nice-
can't wait to see the 1/4 times:rocker:

Ditto and congrats!!

[Vito99]

Make sure you keep that V6 High Output badge on the car. That will scare some people :bigthumb:

"dont judge a book by its cover"

good for you!:bigthumb:

[MCaesar]

I don't know about all systems- but I went from 25- 36 mpg to 16- 21 mpg with my supercharger-
well worth it- but a definite decrease.
The top numbers were all achieved cruising on long trips.:beerchug:

I seriously doubt that any supercharger increases gas mileage.

Without even getting into the detailed science common sense says otherwise

more air (and fuel)
parasitic losses

I don't see it

[Vito99]

That 4speed is the same as whats used in the Minivans and previous Chryslers...

Old Chrysler transmissions are terrible. Ask anyone...

ive heard from the older ones that chrysler transmission have been the best since they came out ...so idk who your getting your info from

i guess its opinion based though

[ga charger]

Is the car still running good.

[dejuan7]

I'm curious on why the torque numbers are so low