Ricer friend said upgrade ignition? [Archive] - Dodge Charger Forums

: Ricer friend said upgrade ignition?


Kenny Pollock
04-02-2008, 10:12 AM
A friend of mine who loves his 1.8T Jetta told me that after my cam, I should upgrade the ignition and it will sound even better?

I've never heard of "upgrading an ignition"... sounds like something a ricer would do. But maybe I'm retarded?

Phanta5m
04-02-2008, 10:17 AM
i think there's an aftermarket one for the 6.1 "MSD" but not sure about the 5.7... i have no clue what the ignition would have to do with the cam... i would think he was referring to the idle... and he may have been thinking throttle body... but we don't use cable throttle's, so no adjusting there

Kenny Pollock
04-02-2008, 10:21 AM
I told him I was doing my cam in the next few weeks... he said damn, that's gonna sound awesome (the lope)... you need to upgrade your ignition and it will sound even meaner.

Phanta5m
04-02-2008, 10:24 AM
I told him I was doing my cam in the next few weeks... he said damn, that's gonna sound awesome (the lope)... you need to upgrade your ignition and it will sound even meaner.

depending on what cam you get from what i've read... the lope that is... some are more aggressive than others... i believe that's what makes those old 5.0's sound so badass

mojo
04-02-2008, 10:30 AM
I can't see the ignition system making any difference in sound unless the car is misfiring and the new system fixes the problem. I also haven't heard of anyone having to upgrade their ignition system so the stock one must work pretty well.

Phanta5m
04-02-2008, 10:35 AM
I can't see the ignition system making any difference in sound unless the car is misfiring and the new system fixes the problem. I also haven't heard of anyone having to upgrade their ignition system so the stock one must work pretty well.

sounds right... plus i don't think there are any aftermarket ignitions for the 5.7

lanbo
04-02-2008, 10:35 AM
You're seriously going to call someone that drives a GERMAN car a ricer? LOL. My wife is German, and they live off of mostly sausage and beer (just the way I like it), but not very much rice. But as far as the ignition goes, I don't think there is anything available for our cars and may not be any time soon that would be worth anything. With older cars you could get a better distributor or ignition system depending on the way the car was designed which in many cases made a nice difference, but our cars nowadays are so different from those designs. I'm sure someone will come out with something that is better eventually though if they have not already done so.

peteblksrt4
04-02-2008, 10:49 AM
the ignition coil will DEFINATELY not change the sound performance. the only thing it will help with is spark. but from my understanding the stock coil is all u will need there is no reason to upgrade unless u are turning the car into a drag car and have a ignition for each cylinder. that is my .02

PaCharger
04-02-2008, 11:07 AM
sounds right... plus i don't think there are any aftermarket ignitions for the 5.7

There are aftermarket performance coil packs.
Have not read a single positive remark about the first iteration. My guess is having 16 plugs firing off doesn't marginally create better performance.

The fact that you would get a different tone or better sounding car from doing such astounds and baffles me.

DJ

BAD MAN 485
04-02-2008, 11:12 AM
You're seriously going to call someone that drives a GERMAN car a ricer? LOL. My wife is German, and they live off of mostly sausage and beer (just the way I like it), but not very much rice. But as far as the ignition goes, I don't think there is anything available for our cars and may not be any time soon that would be worth anything. With older cars you could get a better distributor or ignition system depending on the way the car was designed which in many cases made a nice difference, but our cars nowadays are so different from those designs. I'm sure someone will come out with something that is better eventually though if they have not already done so.

vw maybe a german car but are ricers at heart if you could see all the punks in jetta's and gti's down here you'd think they were ricers

Scott
04-02-2008, 11:17 AM
There are aftermarket performance coil packs.
Have not read a single positive remark about the first iteration. My guess is having 16 plugs firing off doesn't marginally create better performance.

The fact that you would get a different tone or better sounding car from doing such astounds and baffles me.

DJ

x2. It's like trying to improve a paper clip. :lol:

Scott
04-02-2008, 11:21 AM
You're seriously going to call someone that drives a GERMAN car a ricer? LOL. My wife is German, and they live off of mostly sausage and beer (just the way I like it), but not very much rice. But as far as the ignition goes, I don't think there is anything available for our cars and may not be any time soon that would be worth anything. With older cars you could get a better distributor or ignition system depending on the way the car was designed which in many cases made a nice difference, but our cars nowadays are so different from those designs. I'm sure someone will come out with something that is better eventually though if they have not already done so.

At 1.8 maybe he should have called it a sewing machine? :grin:

Black Bullet
04-02-2008, 11:33 AM
Don't listen to ricers - they want you to do stuff to your Charger so it goes slower and they *MIGHT* be able to catch you!

KrzySRT
04-02-2008, 12:04 PM
hhhmmm,drives a Volks..wouldnt that make him a "Krauter" LOL
A friend of mine who loves his 1.8T Jetta told me that after my cam, I should upgrade the ignition and it will sound even better?

I've never heard of "upgrading an ignition"... sounds like something a ricer would do. But maybe I'm retarded?

Phanta5m
04-02-2008, 12:10 PM
Don't listen to ricers - they want you to do stuff to your Charger so it goes slower and they *MIGHT* be able to catch you!

daamn ricers:ninja: always doing that famous ricer fly bye that they do

Samoan Tsunami
04-02-2008, 12:18 PM
A friend of mine who loves his 1.8T Jetta told me that after my cam, I should upgrade the ignition and it will sound even better?

I've never heard of "upgrading an ignition"... sounds like something a ricer would do. But maybe I'm retarded?

not retarded, but kinda judgemental without knowing what it does.;) Mustang Guys do the same, along with Camaro, Corvette, and other "larger performance cars"...


your friend wasnt wrong about adding an ignition amplifier. some here, not all, dont seem to have ever had experience with em, or limited experience considering the negativity from the replies.


MSD released the Late Model Blaster Coils for Hemi and Ford Mod Motors http://msdignition.com/new_products/82438.html

Fire up your late model Hemi or Mod Motor with a set of MSD’s Blaster Packs. The Coils are a direct bolt-in and deliver increased spark energy over the factory models. Our engineers spec’d superior materials and winding ratios to increase the output of the coil while retaining the factory fit.

basically the coil winds on the coil pack can be wound to handle more power, or they can be wound to increase the amount of power thats output. think of how a capacitor works in an audio system. same idea and effect.

increasing spark has never really negatively affected an engine unless you were to be running lean in the first place. a stronger spark can be gained from simply switching from copper to iridium plugs. the smaller electrode running in the center of the plug takes less energy to fire, meaning more spark energy gets transfered through the plug. huge difference...no...more efficient. yes.

does it change the sound? not much at all. all depends on how much of a difference the spark makes. naturally if you tune a car to take advantage of a stronger spark, you can manipulate fuel a bit. basically N/A tuning a car. the more power a car has the more the sound will change. its marginal, but its a change. but thats using an ignition amplifier such as a DIS-2 or DIS-4 Box as opposed to a coil plug upgrade.

the v8's might not have much to gain being that you already have two plugs per cylinder, however, realize that most cars DO NOT ultilize this setup. this is where spark increases are to an advantage in many cars.


the reason your friend prob said after the cam, to increase the spark is that the computer prob can be tuned for fuel. if you have a diablo, then sure it can.

in general what makes for a bigger combustion? MORE AIR MORE FUEL AND MORE SPARK. his advice about the sound may have been not as accurate, but his method of thinking was pretty much sound.

ignition upgrades have been around for a LONG time now, its not a import thing...the ford guys with late model fords, GM (chevy and pontiac) have been taking advantage of it with the 05-08 models just the same. heres a few links found on the differences/gains:

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2007/02/F150Modifications/index.php
http://www.uniquetuning.net/specials.htm#V6_Mustang has dyno sheet
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0401htp_1997_chevy_camaro_z28_crane_hi6_gnition_ki t_install/index.html


and look at all the performance stuff that is available for those cars vs ours...personally i'd say its worth looking into, rather than just shunning a suggestion from someone because of what type of car they drive. you dont need to be boosted or nitrous to take advantage of a better ignition.

dudeiwin86
04-02-2008, 04:46 PM
daamn ricers:ninja: always doing that famous ricer fly bye that they do

i had that crap happen twice to me recently. ill drop to 2nd gear at a roll with some one you can tell wants to race. then they drop way back, and instead of pulling up, they get up to about 60 by they pass you...

but i just wait.. then floor it when they get paralel.
had one of those lil hatcback benzes try that stunt. he never even got more than half a car past me.

some mustang gt. stock cept for terrible sounding exhaust and ricer type mods including park bench drifter wing.

he got 2 cars past, and by 100 i was 3 cars up.

stupid blow by. cant wait to get my heads/cam and really make em embarassed

TeeJizzle
04-02-2008, 05:58 PM
I never liked the whole ricer bashing deal, its kinda like an automotive racism thing if you ask me.

Vagabond
04-02-2008, 06:31 PM
Personally I don't see why you would waste the money to "upgrade" your ignition system unless it required it. Put it this way, you poor gas on the floor.......does it matter if you light it with a match or a blow torch? No, the end result is still the same. The gas lights on fire the same regardless of what kind of ignition source there is. If the source is enough to ignite the fuel, it will burn the same regarless of what ignites it.

Now, there could be "slight improvements" that could be had, I just don't see it as being worth it imho.

Samoan Tsunami
04-02-2008, 07:02 PM
Personally I don't see why you would waste the money to "upgrade" your ignition system unless it required it. Put it this way, you poor gas on the floor.......does it matter if you light it with a match or a blow torch? No, the end result is still the same. The gas lights on fire the same regardless of what kind of ignition source there is. If the source is enough to ignite the fuel, it will burn the same regarless of what ignites it.

Now, there could be "slight improvements" that could be had, I just don't see it as being worth it imho.

those slight improvements include higher mpgs as well as power as a by product.

the whole idea here is efficiency. a more efficient engine creates more power. if performance is your goal, its all a piece to the whole game.

pouring fuel on the floor is a poor comparison being that the combustion chamber is closed and only a limited amount of air/fuel is in question....

HOWEVER, the greatest example of why its beneficial is right in front of you and any v8 owner....literally. why did mopar utilize two plugs instead of just one plug?

better efficiency, cleaner burn, more power via more spark over a longer duration.

but...everything on the car is tuned for stock specs. advancing timing via a tuner doesnt increase the spark energy, it merely advances it.

you go out and tune the car by adding a cam which means more air, prob add more fuel....what have you now left behind? spark.

to answer your scenario question... a match or a blow torch? sure both will do the job, but which one will do it quicker and more efficiently? thats like asking if someone spilled a cup of water, what will soak it up more efficiently and effectively... a wash cloth or a beach towel. hell even compare worn spark plugs to new spark plugs. the weaker sparking old plug will offer a less complete combustion on top of less power. if we use the "it burns the same" mentality, then we'd simply just keep regapping plugs and using worn wires till they didnt work at all. weak sparks are a good a a strong spark, right? match vs blowtorch? :confused: :lol: think about it, the larger the flame the more efficiently and effectively it will ignite and burn things.

like said. if you are gonna do performance, its worth looking into if you plan to upgrade everything else dealing with fuel air and spark. its pretty much a proven mod and pretty much a basic staple in N/A tuning. its actually kinda surprising not many know much about it.

i posted 1 track test and 1 dyno sheet dealing with ignition upgrades above to back this up.

ChargeRonDavinS
04-02-2008, 07:11 PM
I read once in a performance magazine that when modding your car, if you fold your back seats down, plug in the passenger seatbelt when nobody is in it, break your windshield, and slit your back right tire, you will get the most HP.

Here'sJohnny
04-02-2008, 09:18 PM
The ignition is all electronic, part of hal, but I guess you could replace the coil to give more spark but I don't think it'd do anything for the sound of the car. I really wouldn't mess with it myself for fear of HAL's wrath!!!

Samoan Tsunami
04-02-2008, 10:20 PM
The ignition is all electronic, part of hal, but I guess you could replace the coil to give more spark but I don't think it'd do anything for the sound of the car. I really wouldn't mess with it myself for fear of HAL's wrath!!!

yeah, most of the new systems these days are DIS (distributorless ignition systems)... most of the V6 and higher cars are just getting better coil packs for more spark as opposed to the DIS boxes which are ignition amplifiers that offer multiple spark discharges in the lower rpms. those usually only control 4-6 cylinders per box. so there would be a need to use two.

we mess with this "HAL" thing every time we tune a car... no reason to fear it that much ;)

firefox1
09-24-2009, 10:01 AM
I would change them over to MSD's after I get high mileage...

CHRGRhemi
09-24-2009, 10:37 AM
The HEMI has a really good ignition system: individual high output coil packs and 2 spark plugs per cylinder. NOT a weak link on the HEMI by any stretch.

In other engines, the ignition might be a weak link and might make a big difference to upgrade, but not for us!

For increasing performance, you're always chasing the weak link, which will be different for different cars and different engines. Just because something works on one doesn't mean it will on another.

I think your Jetta friend is drawing some very wrong generalities!

-

sublime 781
09-24-2009, 10:44 AM
change all the spark plug wires to high performance 25mm yellow ones............

BigBlackRT08
09-24-2009, 10:48 AM
change all the spark plug wires to high performance 25mm yellow ones............

Agreed! A red or blue air filter will also make your car sound better.
Hotter spark however will not change your exhaust tone, unless you have HID's.:beer_yum:

sublime 781
09-24-2009, 10:52 AM
HID"S or double D's

zoomzoom1
09-24-2009, 01:11 PM
Robin, behave.......Several ppl on another forum have the MSD coil pacs, but they do mostly drag, with strokers, with the predator, you can increase or decrease the spark width.ie..pulse..50mil...30mil..10mil.. but with the stock ign.. this is a very good system stock....what ST said, changing the plugs would help more than the MSD system on a DD..Most with SC..FI...use colder plugs...irid...based...just my .02

black08
09-24-2009, 01:31 PM
I can't see the ignition system making any difference in sound unless the car is misfiring and the new system fixes the problem. I also haven't heard of anyone having to upgrade their ignition system so the stock one must work pretty well.

The stockers on a 6.1 work just as good..there are no gains with the MDS. Not sure about the 5.7

PRoBLeMz
09-24-2009, 03:45 PM
watches the dead post rise from the grave..... *waves to firefox* post is well over a year old, but yea, our stock ignition systems are great, no need to touch them

zoomzoom1
09-24-2009, 05:08 PM
watches the dead post rise from the grave..... *waves to firefox* post is well over a year old, but yea, our stock ignition systems are great, no need to touch them
I didn't even look at the date.......DDAAAHHHHH:cowsmile: