Small question on 4 ohm speaker use with 2 ohm stock amp...

[Samoan Tsunami]

Theres been a few posts covering this...some saying do it, some saying dont... a bit of misinfo as declared by some and some simple logic that made sense.


question is, can you use 4 ohm aftermarket speakers in the place of the 2 ohm speakers with the stock 2 ohm amps and stock radios.


from the majority of the posts here, and the other 2 forums of which one i cant mention due to issues between..., and a random forum that came up on google but was posted back in 2005 http://www.zerohurtz.com/showthread.php?t=10396

many have stated you can use a 4 ohm, but the speaker would recieve less power than the 2 ohm speaker, however NOT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE IF you purchase an aftermarket speaker to where the "sensitivity level" is greater than the speaker you are replacing.

so basically if i go from a 2ohm speaker with a 86-88db sensitivity rating, to a 4 ohm speaker with lets say 93db sensitivity rating, then there shouldnt be much of a difference....correct???


and because the speaker is recieving less power peak and RMS, the amp should more or less be working less, since it isnt powering the speaker at full tilt?



all of this sound correct? or any info someone wishes to include to kinda settle this quandry, please add on to here.

thanx in advance for any answers given.:grin:

[Samoan Tsunami]

any answers? corrections, etc?

[pikapp]

Theres been a few posts covering this...some saying do it, some saying dont... a bit of misinfo as declared by some and some simple logic that made sense.


question is, can you use 4 ohm aftermarket speakers in the place of the 2 ohm speakers with the stock 2 ohm amps and stock radios.


from the majority of the posts here, and the other 2 forums of which one i cant mention due to issues between..., and a random forum that came up on google but was posted back in 2005 http://www.zerohurtz.com/showthread.php?t=10396

many have stated you can use a 4 ohm, but the speaker would recieve less power than the 2 ohm speaker, however NOT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE IF you purchase an aftermarket speaker to where the "sensitivity level" is greater than the speaker you are replacing.

so basically if i go from a 2ohm speaker with a 86-88db sensitivity rating, to a 4 ohm speaker with lets say 93db sensitivity rating, then there shouldnt be much of a difference....correct???


and because the speaker is recieving less power peak and RMS, the amp should more or less be working less, since it isnt powering the speaker at full tilt?



all of this sound correct? or any info someone wishes to include to kinda settle this quandry, please add on to here.

thanx in advance for any answers given.:grin:



Actually, if you put a 4 ohm speaker load on a 2 ohm amp, your going to cause a lot of havoc on your amp. If your impeadence doesn't match, its going to cause a major power drain, your amp will overheat, and will eventually fail. If you MUST use the amp you have installed now, then the best solution would be to run a second set of speakers in series, if possible. If you daisy chain two 4 ohm speakers, it will drop the load to 2 ohms. In order to do this, you would run your speaker wire from your amp to the first speaker, and then run a second line from the first speaker to the second speaker.

I would recommend just getting a new amp though. It would save a lot of heartache. I definately would not connect your 4ohm speaker load into a 2ohm amp, its just going to kill your amp eventually.

[sound&security]

Actually, if you put a 4 ohm speaker load on a 2 ohm amp, your going to cause a lot of havoc on your amp. If your impeadence doesn't match, its going to cause a major power drain, your amp will overheat, and will eventually fail. If you MUST use the amp you have installed now, then the best solution would be to run a second set of speakers in series, if possible. If you daisy chain two 4 ohm speakers, it will drop the load to 2 ohms. In order to do this, you would run your speaker wire from your amp to the first speaker, and then run a second line from the first speaker to the second speaker.

I would recommend just getting a new amp though. It would save a lot of heartache. I definately would not connect your 4ohm speaker load into a 2ohm amp, its just going to kill your amp eventually.

NOT TRUE!! IT WONT HURT THE AMP AT ALL USING A 4OHM SPEAKER. the amp will see less of a load and wont build power and the stock amp are digital and dont get hot at all. the lower the ohm's the most force you put on the amp. ohm's load is the point at which the coil and speaker shaft for the speaker cone is about to short together. [meaning how close the coil wire is to the shaft.] THAT cause's a higher load which in turns if you have more power build from the amp [if that amp is stable for that type of load. SXT NO PROBLEM. your car run's at 4ohm's. you have only the head unit at 4 ohm's.

[Black Bullet]

Actually, if you put a 4 ohm speaker load on a 2 ohm amp, your going to cause a lot of havoc on your amp. If your impeadence doesn't match, its going to cause a major power drain, your amp will overheat, and will eventually fail. If you MUST use the amp you have installed now, then the best solution would be to run a second set of speakers in series, if possible. If you daisy chain two 4 ohm speakers, it will drop the load to 2 ohms. In order to do this, you would run your speaker wire from your amp to the first speaker, and then run a second line from the first speaker to the second speaker.

I would recommend just getting a new amp though. It would save a lot of heartache. I definately would not connect your 4ohm speaker load into a 2ohm amp, its just going to kill your amp eventually.


Actually this would make it an 8 ohm load, not 2 ohms, and would reduce the current draw from the amp. To get 2 ohms, they need to be connected in parallel, not series.

[pikapp]

Actually this would make it an 8 ohm load, not 2 ohms, and would reduce the current draw from the amp. To get 2 ohms, they need to be connected in parallel, not series.

Oops, I stand corrected, he is right, parallel is the way you want to run your speakers to drop them to a 2ohm load. Here is some a link to some info...

http://www.installdr.com/TechDocs/999016.pdf

[Samoan Tsunami]

NOT TRUE!! IT WONT HURT THE AMP AT ALL USING A 4OHM SPEAKER. the amp will see less of a load and wont build power and the stock amp are digital and dont get hot at all. the lower the ohm's the most force you put on the amp. ohm's load is the point at which the coil and speaker shaft for the speaker cone is about to short together. [meaning how close the coil wire is to the shaft.] THAT cause's a higher load which in turns if you have more power build from the amp [if that amp is stable for that type of load. SXT NO PROBLEM. your car run's at 4ohm's. you have only the head unit at 4 ohm's.


ok so heres another slight question for you or anyone else?

lets say i planned to run a 4 ohm sub in the rear deck.... i;ve been reading the posts and all, and most are just throwing in another boston sub.

would the same thing (less power to speaker, but still decent sound) apply to the sub, as applied here with the 4 ohm speakers on the 2 ohm amp being ok to use, as it would a subwoofer of 4 ohms

http://www.dpcauto.com/images/reg_premier_tssw841d.jpg

Watts MAX. Music Power 500W
Watts Nominal Power Handling 120W
Frequency Response 30-1,500Hz
Sensitivity 85dB
Ohm Rating 4

or for this, do i have to amp it?

[mango man]

NOT TRUE!! IT WONT HURT THE AMP AT ALL USING A 4OHM SPEAKER. the amp will see less of a load and wont build power and the stock amp are digital and dont get hot at all. the lower the ohm's the most force you put on the amp. ohm's load is the point at which the coil and speaker shaft for the speaker cone is about to short together. [meaning how close the coil wire is to the shaft.] THAT cause's a higher load which in turns if you have more power build from the amp [if that amp is stable for that type of load. SXT NO PROBLEM. your car run's at 4ohm's. you have only the head unit at 4 ohm's.

I'm sorry, but I really cant follow what you're talking about here.... The reality is that "ohms" or impedance, varies greatly with frequency..so for a "4-ohm" speaker, it may dip down below 1 ohm and go up to 16 ohms depending on frequency. The "4" or "2" is an average rating. I wouldnt be afraid to put a 16 ohm rated speaker on that amp, ...though its true that you will probably not get as much power to the speaker. The amp will typically not run any hotter or cooler from the different load...(see Maxium Power Transfer Theorum in an electronics textbook)...but you will tend to clip (reach the maximum voltage output of the amp) at a lower volume output with the higher average impedance speaker.

speaker Ohms have NOTHING to do with the "shaft" of the speaker shorting to the coil...when that happens, your speaker is toast.

Also know that increasing the sensitivity number on your speaker by 3dB is equivalet to DOUBLING your amplifier power! BUT, be warned...all speaker manufacturers dont measure this number the same way...so that number may be a bit inflated in the advertising.

[Samoan Tsunami]

I'm sorry, but I really cant follow what you're talking about here.... The reality is that "ohms" or impedance, varies greatly with frequency..so for a "4-ohm" speaker, it may dip down below 1 ohm and go up to 16 ohms depending on frequency. The "4" or "2" is an average rating. I wouldnt be afraid to put a 16 ohm rated speaker on that amp, ...though its true that you will probably not get as much power to the speaker. The amp will typically not run any hotter or cooler from the different load...(see Maxium Power Transfer Theorum in an electronics textbook)...but you will tend to clip (reach the maximum voltage output of the amp) at a lower volume output with the higher average impedance speaker.

speaker Ohms have NOTHING to do with the "shaft" of the speaker shorting to the coil...when that happens, your speaker is toast.

Also know that increasing the sensitivity number on your speaker by 3dB is equivalet to DOUBLING your amplifier power! BUT, be warned...all speaker manufacturers dont measure this number the same way...so that number may be a bit inflated in the advertising.

well in a nutshell, the summary of what i have gotten here and on a few other forums is...

the amp is rated at 2 ohms.

the speakers in the doors and rear deck are 2 ohms but i have plans to replace them with 4 ohm gimmicks.

so far most are saying the speakers will run fine, sound may be slightly lower, but the sensitivity of rating of the newer speakers being higher, should make the sound similar to stock.

in doing this, the amp should run cooler as it has to work less to power the speakers since they are not 2 ohm, which is where more work is done.




now i am just trying to figure out if i switch to the 322w amp and run a 4 ohm sub in the space the 2 ohm sub normally goes, will the sub be under the same rules as the speakers?

[sound&security]

the stock sub gets 46 watts. now if you install a sub that needs 200 watts lets say-it will be WAY under powered and sound like poop. for that you'll need a after market amp and use the factory sub wire as the signal in to the new amp.

[sound&security]

I'm sorry, but I really cant follow what you're talking about here.... The reality is that "ohms" or impedance, varies greatly with frequency..so for a "4-ohm" speaker, it may dip down below 1 ohm and go up to 16 ohms depending on frequency. The "4" or "2" is an average rating. I wouldnt be afraid to put a 16 ohm rated speaker on that amp, ...though its true that you will probably not get as much power to the speaker. The amp will typically not run any hotter or cooler from the different load...(see Maxium Power Transfer Theorum in an electronics textbook)...but you will tend to clip (reach the maximum voltage output of the amp) at a lower volume output with the higher average impedance speaker.

speaker Ohms have NOTHING to do with the "shaft" of the speaker shorting to the coil...when that happens, your speaker is toast.

Also know that increasing the sensitivity number on your speaker by 3dB is equivalet to DOUBLING your amplifier power! BUT, be warned...all speaker manufacturers dont measure this number the same way...so that number may be a bit inflated in the advertising.

the tighter the coil is wraped with cooper wire and the number of wrap's of that wire PLUS the measurement of clearence between the coil and the speaker shaft is what determan's the speakers ohm rating.

[Samoan Tsunami]

the stock sub gets 46 watts. now if you install a sub that needs 200 watts lets say-it will be WAY under powered and sound like poop. for that you'll need a after market amp and use the factory sub wire as the signal in to the new amp.

ok so there is some sorta adapter wire to make the sub wire connector into a RCA gimmick for the aftermarket amp?

the sub in question has a nominal of 120W, 500w max so basically just find something small (amp wise) that powers that, correct? thats the "RMS" rating (120W), or am i a bit off here?

i'm choosing this one mainly because its pioneer and also because it only has a mounting depth of 2.5 inches.

[mango man]

the stock sub gets 46 watts. now if you install a sub that needs 200 watts lets say-it will be WAY under powered and sound like poop. for that you'll need a after market amp and use the factory sub wire as the signal in to the new amp.


SORRY...this statement is totally false. A sub rated at 200 Watts is an average rating of how much power it can handle, not its sensitivity, which relates to how loud the speaker will get with a given input voltage. Also remember that 46 watts of RMS rated power is acutally MORE than 200 watts of peak rated power, which is how many advertizers rate their speakers and amps. Dont worry too much about the power ratings of speakers...especially woofers. Unless you are pushing the speaker to extreme limits for long periods of time, it will be fine. MOST speakers are blown by driving them with TOO LITTLE powered amp...meaning that when the amplifier reaches its limit and goes into clipping, suddenly TONS more power is delivered to the speaker
and causes meltdown of the coil. This is especially true for tweeters, since a clipping waveform has very high frequency power, that is not blocked by your crossover.

[mango man]

"ok so there is some sorta adapter wire to make the sub wire connector into a RCA gimmick for the aftermarket amp?"

I think what you are referring to is this:
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&CAT_ID=35&ObjectGroup_ID=743

[mango man]

the tighter the coil is wraped with cooper wire and the number of wrap's of that wire PLUS the measurement of clearence between the coil and the speaker shaft is what determan's the speakers ohm rating.


Those all may be factors in a speakers impedance, but any decent speaker manufacurer will rate a speaker's impedance by measuring impedance VS. frequency, and take a mathematical average in the usable frequency range. Impedance also has tons to do with its damping factors (Q), resonant frequencies, DCR, magnetic flux, and even cabinet volume will affect a driver's final impedance. A driver's impedance will even vary with the amount of power applied, due to the varying distance of the voicecoil in the gap, and the change in conductivity due to heat in the coil.

[snottyone]

http://www.bcae1.com/


This site will answer almost any audio question you have, and explains in in a way that is easy to follow. It also has pictures! I like pictures!

[Samoan Tsunami]

"ok so there is some sorta adapter wire to make the sub wire connector into a RCA gimmick for the aftermarket amp?"

I think what you are referring to is this:
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&CAT_ID=35&ObjectGroup_ID=743

thanx for the links....


for anyone (sound and security, mango man, anyone who knows, i'd appreciate the input)

i think with the setup of the D3, or at least these are the new plans...., i can get a RCA cable, connect it to the sub output, and simply run the cables to the trunk and run an aftermarket amp to power the sub. i plan on using a pioneer shallow mount 8 inch sub and placing it in the rear deck. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/Subwoofers/Shallow/TS-SW841D

from what i've researched the "adapter" (metra cht0-01) uses the RCA outputs for front and rear. this leaves the RCA output for the subwoofer open.

this seems to be an easier route currently since i do not have the factory sub or the factory 7 channel amp.

doing this, i am guessing, should eliminate the need to buy the 7 channel amp, and i can run and control the sub purely from the avic d3...


anyone see where that WOULD NOT work?

[switzer]

I've been doing a lot of reading on adding an amp and subs. I've found that adding a simple converter will do the trick for adding an amp, but may have some disadvantages in sound quality. I read where Rockford makes a converter called the 360.1 or something like that at a pretty high price. I found a converter that runs 5 volts and a remote turn on and simply plugs in to the back of the radio. See if you can take a look and I am looking for feedback as well. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170202516729&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007

[Samoan Tsunami]

I've been doing a lot of reading on adding an amp and subs. I've found that adding a simple converter will do the trick for adding an amp, but may have some disadvantages in sound quality. I read where Rockford makes a converter called the 360.1 or something like that at a pretty high price. I found a converter that runs 5 volts and a remote turn on and simply plugs in to the back of the radio. See if you can take a look and I am looking for feedback as well. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170202516729&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007


if recent memory serves me right, this is ALSO the same piece you use for adding navigation to a car as well.