P3400 - Cylinder Deactivation Bank 1 [Archive] - Dodge Charger Forums

: P3400 - Cylinder Deactivation Bank 1


forrestkk
10-05-2007, 09:19 PM
So my Charger just kicked this code. Even though it is under warranty, being that I have my own shop, I of course pulled the DTC. Anyway, no other pending DTCs. I cleared and and will see if it returns, but I am a diesel guy by trade and could use a little help in understanding why a 06' 5.7L would want to turn off a cylinder. My initial guess would be knocking or something, but I was under the impression that generally triggers a timing reduction.

Anyway, any help would be appreciated.

Kevin

forrestkk
10-05-2007, 09:47 PM
Okay, with the help of google I might have found some answers, but would love to hear somebody back it up who knows more that me.

Anyway I was reading at allpar.com and there is an extensive write up on the new Hemi lines. Anyway they mention that in 2004 that the intended on adding a cylinder deactivation for idle or extremely low loads. That sounds like the variable displacement thing that the 300C and Magnum R/T have. Anyway it must not be normal to kick the mil I guess and only on 1 bank. When the light came on I had just finished about a 6 mile 25 MPH drive. I had autosticked to 4th and the engine was holding at 1000 RPM. I took it out of autostick and let the computer work and I felt some accel/decel which I thought was cruise being a little slow at the very low speed, but maybe it was the engine cutting back cylinders. Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated.

zoomzoom1
10-05-2007, 11:00 PM
MDS does not work in autostick! May have one of the soleinoids(sp) sticking? Just a guess.

magnuman
10-05-2007, 11:05 PM
It most certainly is not normal for one cylinder to shut off. I would think it would have to be one of the MDS cylinders, which are 1, 4, 6, or 7. Here is what he shop manual says about DTC, P3400. In any case, you're still under waranty, so I'd let the dealer worry about it. If it is a solenoid problem, the intake manifold has to come off. In any case, it shouldn't require a major engine teardown. Let us know what they find.

P3400-MDS RATIONALITY BANK 1
For a complete wiring diagram Refer to Section 8W.
Theory of Operation
When all criteria has been met, power is supplied to each MDS Solenoid when the engine is making a transition
from 8 cylinder mode to 4 cylinder mode. By actuating the solenoid, oil pressure is raised to the pair of lifters that
coincide with each particular solenoid. The oil pressure pushes in the locking pins that allows the lifter to collapse,
decoupling the valves and camshaft.
When Monitored:
Transition from 4 to 8cylinder mode.
Set Condition:
O2 sensor readings on Bank 1 side indicate a lean condition while in 4 cylinder mode.
Possible Causes
INSUFFICIENT OIL PRESSURE ACTING ON THE LIFTER LOCKING PINS
OIL PASSAGES RESTRICTED
LIFTER
MDS SOLENOID
Always perform the Pre-Diagnostic Troubleshooting procedure before proceeding (Refer to 9 - ENGINE -
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING).
Diagnostic Test
1. ACTIVE DTC
NOTE: Diagnose any Deactivation or Oil Pressure DTCs before continuing with this test.
Ignition on, engine not running.
With a scan tool, read DTCs.
Is the DTC active at this time?
Yes >> Go To 2
No >> Refer to the INTERMITTENT CONDITION Diagnostic Procedure.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - STANDARD PROCEDURE)
2. MDS SOLENOID 1
Turn the ignition off.
Remove the Intake Manifold per Service Information.
Turn the ignition on.
With the scan tool actuate the MDS Solenoid 1.
Can you feel and hear the Solenoid Actuating?
Yes >> Go To 3
No >> Remove the Solenoid and check for any debris that may be blocking the oil passages to the Solenoid.
If the passages are clogged, clean the passages and replace the MDS Solenoid 1. If the passages are
not clogged with debris, replace the MDS Solenoid 1.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - STANDARD PROCEDURE)
LX ENGINE ELECTRICAL DIAGNOSTICS 9 - 915
3. MDS SOLENOID 7
With the scan tool actuate the MDS Solenoid 7.
Can you feel and hear the Solenoid Actuating?
Yes >> Go To 4
No >> Remove the Solenoid and check for any debris that may be blocking the oil passages to the Solenoid.
If the passages are restricted, clean the passages and replace the MDS Solenoid 7. If the passages are
not clogged with debris, replace the MDS Solenoid 7.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - STANDARD PROCEDURE)
4. OIL PASSAGES RESTRICTED
Turn the ignition off.
Remove both Solenoids on Bank 1 of the engine block.
Remove the Bank 1 Cylinder Head per Service Information.
Remove the Lifters from the left engine bank.
Inspect the oil passages to the Solenoids and from the Solenoids to the lifters.
Are the passages blocked?
Yes >> Clean the oil passages as necessary. If the entire engine is restricted disassembly of the entire engine
block may be necessary.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - STANDARD PROCEDURE)
No >> Replace both sets of lifters if no other possible causes remain.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - STANDARD PROCEDURE

forrestkk
10-05-2007, 11:13 PM
Thanks for the info. I will see if the code re-appears and if it does I will take it in. So the 06' charger does have MDS which would make sense that the engine should have been in 4 cyl mode almost the entire 6 miles at 25MPH. If there is a sticky solenoid or a loose connection causing 1 or more of the MDS cylinders to go on and off line that may kick the code and explain the small jerks I was feeling while the cruise had control of the throttle.

magnuman
10-05-2007, 11:26 PM
At 25 mph you should be in 3rd gear at about 1200-1400 RPM. This is normally one of the "sweet spots" for the MDS. There should be no jerkiness, in fact, you shouldn't even feel/hear in kick in/out unless you have the MDS "ON" light or a louder aftermarket exhaust. Also, if you have the Superchips tuner set to raised shift points, you might be able to feel it. I can on mine. It also allows the MDS to come on sooner and stay on longer.

forrestkk
10-05-2007, 11:31 PM
Thanks for the info. It is made harder that the road is not super smooth and goes up and down. Your are right about RPM range as soon as I got it out of autostick 4. Probably my fault for having it locked in 4 and letting cruise run the throttle. There have been no other indications from anything else.

magnuman
10-05-2007, 11:45 PM
Yes, what zoomzoom1 says is true. MDS will only work with the selector in the "D" position. Do you still have roughness (cylinder missing) when you are in any position other than "D"?

425hp
10-06-2007, 01:18 AM
Are you using the Predator?

C.

forrestkk
10-06-2007, 08:24 AM
Yes, what zoomzoom1 says is true. MDS will only work with the selector in the "D" position. Do you still have roughness (cylinder missing) when you are in any position other than "D"?

That explains a little. It was smooth when in autostick. The rough accel/decel was only apparent in D.

This may answer the question though. The code will trip for a lean condition during MDS operation according to the post above. I have converted this to run on E85. I have run about 700 miles on E85 with no issue, but I must admit most of it has been in town, and having driven diesel for so long, having a muscle car makes every stop light an adventure again. This has probably led to very little operation of the MDS.... ;-). I will make an adjustment to the E85 computer that will richen the lead pulse on the injectors. All the other conversions my company has done have been on engines without MDS. Anyway I will make the adjustment (turn the little knob a little to the right) and then go re-create the drive again.

I don't have a predator yet. I have to wait a month or so for $$$$ and then I will run the spark advance way up to take advantage of the 105 octane E85. I kind of chuckled when I saw that they had a perf tune for 93 octane.

magnuman
10-06-2007, 10:40 AM
I'd be curious to know what you have done to make it E85 compatible? The Hemi is normally not E85 compatible. The PCM is not set up for it. Could this be part of the problem? I don't know!

forrestkk
10-06-2007, 10:53 AM
I'd be curious to know what you have done to make it E85 compatible? The Hemi is normally not E85 compatible. The PCM is not set up for it. Could this be part of the problem? I don't know!

There is really no difference between engines that are E85 compatible and ones that are not except the software and it's ability to trim fuel. We add a computer that adds a leading edge pulse to the injection sequence giving enough fuel to allow the stock PCM to have enough authority to trim the fuel. See the thread here about it.

I took the car out this AM and have ruled out the conversion by pulling it off and I still got the code. Anyway it seems as though I will be taking my Charger in so the dealer can check the solenoids, lifters, and oil passages.

http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54381&highlight=Full+Flex+Conversinhttp://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54381&highlight=Full+Flex+Conversin

IslaTurbine
10-06-2007, 12:09 PM
There is really no difference between engines that are E85 compatible and ones that are not except the software and it's ability to trim fuel. We add a computer that adds a leading edge pulse to the injection sequence giving enough fuel to allow the stock PCM to have enough authority to trim the fuel. See the thread here about it.

I took the car out this AM and have ruled out the conversion by pulling it off and I still got the code. Anyway it seems as though I will be taking my Charger in so the dealer can check the solenoids, lifters, and oil passages.

http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54381&highlight=Full+Flex+Conversinhttp://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54381&highlight=Full+Flex+Conversin

Maybe you already know this, but I hope you realize that E85 is very corrosive to the fuel system unless it's specifically setup to handle it.

forrestkk
10-06-2007, 01:05 PM
Maybe you already know this, but I hope you realize that E85 is very corrosive to the fuel system unless it's specifically setup to handle it.

Thanks for the tip; however, all fuel systems are designed to deal with ethanol. This was a requirement after 1988 because it has been used as an oxygenate up to E10. E10 is actually harder on elastomers (rubber) than E85 and has been causing permeation (fuel vapors escaping through to rubber into the air) and has been most noticed in CA. Some of the corrosion problems that have been seen are generally from the natureof ethanol to attract water. Of course on regular steel this can cause corrosion. This has been a problem the fuel industry as they have had to deal with this in winter time because of the use of ethanol as an oxygenate, and they have to clean/dewater their tanks more often.

Furthermore if you look at the tank on the Charger, and most new vehicles, they are made of plastic. Usually HDPE or ABS with a HDPE liner which will not corrode. With the exception of very short runs of synthetic rubber fuel lines that are ethanol compliant at tank/engine attachment points all the lines are stainless steel which will also not corrode.

This technology has been used for many years in Brazil, in fact the FFI digital model was based on the product that originated there. I would venture to say that the car makers want you to believe that you would have to go out and buy a new car that will work with E85 so they can make $$$, but it isn't the case. The largest drawback to E85 is that the car companies have to certify each platform with both E85 and regular unleaded to ensure they both meet the standard. They already have to certify two models of vehicles, those that meet CARB and those that don't and the certification is pretty expensive and time consuming.

Regards

forrestkk
10-06-2007, 06:01 PM
So I couldn't wait for the dealer as it was driving me nuts. Anyway I disconnected the battery and unplugged and re-seated every connector I could get my hands on. Drove it again with out conversion and NO LIGHT or even a pending DTC. So I put the E85 conversion back on and drove it all afternoon slow constant speeds, on the highway, and around town...STILL NO LIGHT. Guess it must have just been a loose/dirty/wet connector. No trip to the dealer for this one!