6-SPEED Manual Transmission for LX 5.7/6.1

[ChargerSRT]

Folks,

Check out this link on our forum - go to page 6:

http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=466804#post466804

and

http://www.moparaction.com/Next/next.html

Mopar Action April 2007 issue now on the newstand has the first press release about our preformance 6-speed manual transmission for LX 5.7/6.1.

Check it out!

[GLHS837]

So, how youd handle the programming? Not the specifics of course, but in generalities.

[TNCHARGER]

Luck is in my court...Shafi may be up around my area Friday..Looking forward to seeing this puppy in person..:)

[ChargerSRT]

Folks,

Our web-site will be updated Wednesday or Thursday with product details.

[Andre]

If it looks like something out of the factory, this will be an awesome mod. If it looks like some cheap after market mod then....

[GSRT-8]

I can say if this trans is anything like the one I got for my 73 cuda, it will be sweet. Keisler was great in helping me out with what type and gearing was best for my car. They also had no problems in helping me out with the install too. I'm going to keep an eye on this and hope the wife will let me do this mod.

[ChargerSRT]

I can say if this trans is anything like the one I got for my 73 cuda, it will be sweet. Keisler was great in helping me out with what type and gearing was best for my car. They also had no problems in helping me out with the install too. I'm going to keep an eye on this and hope the wife will let me do this mod.


GSRT-8,

Thanks for the nice feedback on our products you have installed! This swap is actually much easier than the Cuda/Challenger swap (auto-to-manual): no tunnel cutting or modifiers, easy component install, etc.

We hope you give it a good look-see.

[i_want_vtec]

yup, that settles it, charger here i come. no more excuses. now if i can just get it and sell the automatic while there still worth money

[BLKCHARGER]

Will the V6ers be able to use this also?? We all have the same Automatic transmissions...

[Thunderkiss]

Who is gonna be the first guinea pig??

[circleAcustoms]

yes what would it take for a t56 swap in a 3.5

[ChargerSRT]

Thanks for the inquiries on the 6-speed for V6. At this time, there is no plan for that match-up. The transmission system is tuned for performance V8, not V6.

If you want the 6-speed in a car turn-key, we are working with several suppliers that can provide brand new or low mile cars, already equipped with our 6-speed kit.

[MySRT8U]

Who is gonna be the first guinea pig??

pick me pick me

[i_want_vtec]

Thanks for the inquiries on the 6-speed for V6. At this time, there is no plan for that match-up. The transmission system is tuned for performance V8, not V6.

If you want the 6-speed in a car turn-key, we are working with several suppliers that can provide brand new or low mile cars, already equipped with our 6-speed kit.

how can we contact them?

[MySRT8U]

Thanks for the inquiries on the 6-speed for V6. At this time, there is no plan for that match-up. The transmission system is tuned for performance V8, not V6.

If you want the 6-speed in a car turn-key, we are working with several suppliers that can provide brand new or low mile cars, already equipped with our 6-speed kit.

so does this mean they have already done some chargers with the 6 spd tranny? where would we get one?

[ChargerSRT]

how can we contact them?


OK, please send me an email to skeisler@keislerauto.com and I can put you in touch with retail sales folks that can provide a new or used car, turnkey.

Here are some available low mile cars that I know of that can be purchase turn-key, fly-in to Knoxville TN and drive home:
1. SRT8 Charger, 5K miles, nav, black
2. SRT8 Magnum, 8K miles, red
3. Daytona R/T, 7K miles, yellow

Also, I know of 2 Charger SRT8 Superbees, new 2008.

Again, if there is interest on these, please contact me and I will have a sales person work with you on the details.

Check out the free gear you get with purchase of the 6-speed!

[Shakin]

I can say if this trans is anything like the one I got for my 73 cuda, it will be sweet. Keisler was great in helping me out with what type and gearing was best for my car. They also had no problems in helping me out with the install too. I'm going to keep an eye on this and hope the wife will let me do this mod.


I can second that, I have a Kiesler 5 speed in my 70 cuda, I had a minor issue after install and they helped me out to get it fixed. Havent had any major issues since.

[MySRT8U]

I can second that, I have a Kiesler 5 speed in my 70 cuda, I had a minor issue after install and they helped me out to get it fixed. Havent had any major issues since.

what issue did you have? Just wondering bc I am REALLY considering this mod if the price is affordable.

[Shakin]

what issue did you have? Just wondering bc I am REALLY considering this mod if the price is affordable.


I had one small thing where there is a roll pin that holds the ball of the shifter in the tranny and it wasnt in there, Called kiesler they told me about it and I went to home depot and bought one for 40 cents. The only other issue is the clutch. I have the hyd. clutch and it gets mushy, i think it needs to be bled again not real sure. I havent had time to mess with it. Other then those small things no problems at all. I bang the gears pretty hard and my car runs 11.60s. so you know its tough.

[MySRT8U]

I had one small thing where there is a roll pin that holds the ball of the shifter in the tranny and it wasnt in there, Called kiesler they told me about it and I went to home depot and bought one for 40 cents. The only other issue is the clutch. I have the hyd. clutch and it gets mushy, i think it needs to be bled again not real sure. I havent had time to mess with it. Other then those small things no problems at all. I bang the gears pretty hard and my car runs 11.60s. so you know its tough.

thats awesome man, so in your opinion was it worth the dollars?

[ChargerSRT]

Hi Folks,

As of this afternoon, we are gold level sponsors of ChargerForums.com, and we can further the discussions about the product.

Please check out the link to the 6-Speed at:
http://www.keislerauto.com/mopar/tra...s/6-speed.html

From this page, you can read the full Mopar Action feature that just came out.

Check it out, and inquire to us for more information, and to get put yourself on the list to receive information, and a place holder in line in case you buy. There is no obligation to buy by putting your name on the list.

TNCHARGER will be driving the car on Jan 29. Those of you that are in the area should drop in for a visit and tour of the facility.

[ChargerSRT]

Folks,
Here is a copy from a hot thread on the Charger SRT-8 discussion. It helps to understand the performance differences between automatic and manual transmission. Enjoy!

340ChallengerMan,

Thanks for participating and bringing up good points. You are still off track, but it brings to light that gearing is not as simple as understanding HP and TORQUE.

I want to provide a little bit of education here, so I'll address your points 1-by-1, so we can all benefit from this discussion. Our web-site does not cover such discussions at this time, and I'll let our web master review consider placing this info on the main site.

1.

But if you go to a steeper diff gear, you lose the extra gas mileage you gain with the nearly double overdrive.....rpms are going to go up.

As far as the drop between 1st and 2cnd goes, yes your six speed is closer (.9 drop vs 1.39) so the rpm loss is less. But the 3.58 geared car made a better run during its first gear timeframe, so it should be at a higher mph quicker than the 2.97 geared car. The drop isn't as much, but the six speed second gear doesn't provide as good a final drive ratio as the auto. So it is lagging behind in first gear and still struggling to catch up in second. How is that an advantage.

As a drag racing tranny, I can't see your six speed giving any advantage over the autostick unless you go to a steeper differential gear. But then you can do that with an auto too and negate any advantage gained by the manual.


Understand the term Overall Ratio.
Overall Ratio = trans gear ratio X diff ratio. If you were racing and considering which tire to run, you would also factor tire rolling circumference (3.1514 x Tire Diameter).
For the Auto, OR = 3.58 x 3.08 = 11.03.
For the 6psd Manual, OR = 2.97 x 3.08 = 9.15
This means 11.03 revs of the engine are required to turn the rear wheels 1 revolution on the auto car. It means 9.15 revolutions are required to turn the rear wheels 1 revolution on the 6-speed car.
SO, the auto launches with a higher overall gearing than the manual, which in theory sound like a stronger launch. BUT, to really understand the big picture, you have to figure in the stall speed and also the lock-up of the torque converter. The torque converter lock up, whereby the engine's crankshaft is physically driving the torque converter's output approaches 1:1, DOES NOT occur until you are in 5th gear. Therefore, the auto is slipping and you don't get the full coupling of engine and transmission shafts. This is further affected by the k factor of the torque converter, which affects torque multiplication.

With manual transmissions, when you release the clutch pedal, the direct coupling is done, there is no slip, and you are getting the FULL POWER from the engine to the rear wheels - perhaps more than 15-25%.

If you changed the converter to a higher stall speed converter, the auto car could come out of the hole stronger BUT that affects your around town driving negatively.

THEN, here comes second gear change, and the auto car engine RPM drops heavily going into 2nd because the MPH was considerably lower, compared to 2nd in the 6-speed manual car. The auto car ran out of gear quicker due to the super low 3.58 1st, and you have to change into 2nd at a lower MPH than the 6-speed car.

For the Auto, OR = 2.19 x 3.08 = 6.75
For the 6psd Manual, OR = 2.07 x 3.08 = 6.38

With the second gear change occurs and you get a big 1-2 RPM drop in the auto car, and the car is out of its power band and strugging to get back into it. All the while, the manual car' close ratio 1st allowed the car to climb up to much higher MPH in 1st, thus allowing it to be more in its power band.

For the 6-speed car, the effect of the smaller 1-2 RPM drop combined with higher OR in 2nd gear means the engine is higher into its power band and tearing up the road over the auto car. Also remember, the automatic is still slipping while the manual is direct coupled when you released the clutch pedal, and you are getting all of the juice from the engine.

Running the up RPM range in second is easier for the 6-speed car because of several reasons:
1. it started out higher in its power band
2. it throws more power to the rear wheels than the slipping automatic
3. it has a higher OR, thus the multiplied torque of the transmission's output shaft (going to the diff), allows the 6-speed car to muscle past the auto car even if they were side-side coming out of 1st.

Now that you understand Overall Ratio, let's look at the final drive ratio of both auto and 6-speed manual:
Overall Ratio, Automatic, 5th: .83 x 3.08 = 2.56
Overall Ratio, 6-Speed Manual, 6th: .62 x 3.08 = 1.91

This means you have lower RPMS on the highway in 6th gear with the speed. Please remember the 6-speed's 5TH GEAR RATIO - 0.80, which is the same as the automatic, essentially. Therefore, when you put the stick in 5th, it's the same as the automatic's 5th gear.

Here's where the LX 6-Speed cars can really shine:
A 4.10 Ring Gear & Pinion Change
OR, 1st = 12.17 **incredible launch**
OR, 6th = 2.56 **same highway cruise RPM as auto**
This set-up above would be simply blistering!!
The only concern we would normally have for that ratio is high driveshaft speed which could cause a vibration due to the critical speed of the particular driveshaft in questions. HOWEVER, the LX engineers used a 2-piece driveshaft with isolator which we retained. SO, the critical speed of the shaft goes way up. I would estimate the Noise Vehicle Harshness (NVH) quality would be just fine.

We will look at the 4.10 along with a 3.5-3.7 ratio for a more conservative, less aggressive set-up.

2.
How about a six speed with gear ratios something like 3.6, 3.0, 2.4, 1.8, 1.0, .70 That would keep engine rpms up nicely and still provide decent cruising economy for a V8.


No, that wouldn't work. Those are truck ratios found in 5-speed Dakota and the like. That ratio set would also require a bigger transmission to handle the power mulitplication in 1st.

Wide Ratio transmissions are good for trucks to help launch them with a high GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight).

Close Ratio transmissions are good for performance car.

So, I hope this helps to educate the understanding of:
Overall Ratio
Automatic Slip, Torque Converter Lock-up Speed & Stall Speed
Keeping the engine in the power band
Close Ratio vs Wide Ratio

[Shakin]

thats awesome man, so in your opinion was it worth the dollars?


definitly, especially for my cuda, highway driving was horrible, with the OD gear its much better. I am moving further away from a street/strip type car with the cuda and more of a "driver". I dont go to the race track hardly anymore so there is no point in setting the car up for the track. The manual is much more fun to drive than an auto. The shifts are easy, and smooth, and its becoming more of a pleasure to drive, next mod on that car is a coil over tubular front suspension w/ rack and pinon steering.

[AB Charger]

Okay, I understand a lot of the explanations regarding gearing etc, but what is HAL gonna do? Will he light up the dash with CEL's or will he have a spaz and make the car undrivable when his comfortable auto is replaced by the manual 6 spd? Just curious.

[PRoBLeMz]

what im hearing is that that a charger is riding around in town with a 6 speed manual in it.....



and im totally upset... i just left ft. cambell and If i would knew these guys were local, my daytona could be rolling with some serious fun! :(

[TNCHARGER]

what im hearing is that that a charger is riding around in town with a 6 speed manual in it.....



and im totally upset... i just left ft. cambell and If i would knew these guys were local, my daytona could be rolling with some serious fun! :(

Other than maybe driving it you did not miss out...it is not ready for production yet...soon to be though..

[ChargerSRT]

Okay, I understand a lot of the explanations regarding gearing etc, but what is HAL gonna do? Will he light up the dash with CEL's or will he have a spaz and make the car undrivable when his comfortable auto is replaced by the manual 6 spd? Just curious.

Alberta Charger,

Please visit our website link below. As mentioned there, the car is completely functional and the computer acts as if the car has a manual transmission. The reflash IS a requirement for the car to act properly, and it is included in the product.

[kennyR/T]

website:Manual Transmission Reprogramming of ECM - full functionality of car retained, including traction ESP control on/off function

is this a reflash to the ESP. if so this means you can completely shut down the esp system by the press of a button, or does it still retain to HAL's version of "off"?

[rawj7]

All i have to say is-I WANT IT-where are you located? I went on your Web and filled out your keep me informed sheet. i hope i'm close to a dealer that can do this and it's affordable, if i get this done then i'll hang up on getting a challenger since a manual was the #1 reason i wanted it.

[ChargerSRT]

All i have to say is-I WANT IT-where are you located? I went on your Web and filled out your keep me informed sheet. i hope i'm close to a dealer that can do this and it's affordable, if i get this done then i'll hang up on getting a challenger since a manual was the #1 reason i wanted it.


We are located several hours from you in Knoxville area. The mod will be affordable, at less than 5K$ plus labor, approx 10 hour.

BIG UPSIDE: Your auto takeout is a valuable core that can be sold. This will drop your bottom line considerably!

[ChargerSRT]

is this a reflash to the ESP. if so this means you can completely shut down the esp system by the press of a button, or does it still retain to HAL's version of "off"?

KennyR/T,

ESP would function as before, as we don't modify this or other functions of the vehicle.

I understand the Quaife unit, which we may carry, can improve the launch using their gear-type LSD.

[ChargerSRT]

Folks,

I will be in the Bristol area Monday Jan 29, weather permitting, to show the car and take you for rides and let those of you ready to sign up for orders drive the car.

TNCHARGER and our East Tennessee distributor - The Driven Man www.thedrivenman.com - is hosting the event with us. We will post info as we get closer.

Hope to see you there!

[mccrisco]

I haven't heard much much about this lately and was just wondering if anyone out there has bit the bullet and installed the 6-speed in their charger yet??

[GLHS837]

Last I saw, cant remember where, was that this was now pushed back to Early 2008, no reason given why.

[PRoBLeMz]

Last I saw, cant remember where, was that this was now pushed back to Early 2008, no reason given why.

i think they want to spy on the challenger and use what that has on the charger :wink:

[Cuda340]

Edmunds.com has a great article about the 392 Dodge Challenger Super Stock concept. See:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=120457?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1 .*

The car puts out 525 hp with 510 pound-feet of torque. And guess what... it puts the power to the ground using an "old school" TorqueFlite A999 3-speed automatic with a reverse valve body!! Also, it uses a Dana 60 rear axle and a 4.56 final drive.

[MySRT8U]

Last I saw, cant remember where, was that this was now pushed back to Early 2008, no reason given why.

but weren't they selling that Daytona here on the forum? It had a 6 spd in it already.

[GLHS837]

Yeah, but Cuda, that thing is a one off toy made for playtime with the press, not any sort of intention to sell one that way.

I cant remember what happened with that one Kielser was selling, honestly. Wasnt it Ebayed? Wonder if we can find the buyer.

[GLHS837]

http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30636

Here ya go, car was supposed to available for sale to drive away the 15th of March, and the kit was supposed to be for sale to the public on April 15th. Who knows.

[metgo]

I emailed them and asked them when it would be released and how much it would cost. They said Late 2008 and they estimate that it will cost about $5,500

[srt4evah]

Wow, late 2008? That's an 18 month delay!

[MySRT8U]

Wow, late 2008? That's an 18 month delay!

I had been in contact with them when they first started talking about it and at the time they told me they already had kits available and also have turn key cars available.