Performance Heads power #'s?

[str8frmw]

Any you guys out there that did head swaps got any power #'s ,Real #'s no guesses.

[FastMatt]

Any you guys out there that did head swaps got any power #'s ,Real #'s no guesses.

doing Our ported heads, and headers to our test charger added 44 RWHP with the Week stock cam. Adding the small Comp stage 1 cam added another 28 RWHP for a total of a 72 RWHP gain. That 72 HP AT THE WHEELS.

[arfur]

Ported heads on their own - 20-30 BHP

[RTjunkie]

doing Our ported heads, and headers to our test charger added 44 RWHP with the Week stock cam. Adding the small Comp stage 1 cam added another 28 RWHP for a total of a 72 RWHP gain. That 72 HP AT THE WHEELS.



I don't know the equation, but what's that work out to if measured at the crank?

[FastMatt]

Ported heads on their own - 20-30 BHP

I would say it's a bit more then that with our heads, seeing how the gains we have seen from headers on stock, and stock + CAI 5.7L cars is 4 to 7 RWHP at best.

This is in the real world, header companies claim all kinds of crazy #'s on stock cars that never seem to happen in the real world.

[arfur]

I would say it's a bit more then that with our heads, seeing how the gains we have seen from headers on stock, and stock + CAI 5.7L cars is 4 to 7 RWHP at best.

This is in the real world, header companies claim all kinds of crazy #'s on stock cars that never seem to happen in the real world.
Always try and be conservative....gives a warm fuzzy feeling when it's a bit more.....

Another company that I have spoken to has given me these (IMHO honest figures...after 200 miles and a little 'learning'). I am not aware that porting (removal of material) is going to give much difference between 'methods', unless there are many different ways to form the gas paths when grinding/milling.

I was talking stock intake/exhaust by the way :)

[FastMatt]

I don't know the equation, but what's that work out to if measured at the crank?


Well stock the cars are rated at 340 crank HP, and on the dyno we use thy always seem to dyno 268-272. This charger that we did the heads on Dynoed 274 with a magnaflow exhaust installed. So we are looking at ~ a 20% Drive line loss. and that’s really not bad for a car with a auto.

so a 72 WHEEL hp gain is so at a 20% DL loss you would need to gain ~90HP at the crank to get 72 at the wheels. (90x 0.80 = 72)

Not bad for ported heads, headers, and a small MDS cam.

[RTjunkie]

Well stock the cars are rated at 340 crank HP, and on the dyno we use thy always seem to dyno 268-272. This charger that we did the heads on Dynoed 274 with a magnaflow exhaust installed. So we are looking at ~ a 20% Drive line loss. and that’s really not bad for a car with a auto.

so a 72 WHEEL hp gain is so at a 20% DL loss you would need to gain ~90HP at the crank to get 72 at the wheels. (90x 0.80 = 72)

Not bad for ported heads, headers, and a small MDS cam.



Definately not bad at all!

I'm thinking I'll end up doing away with MDS all together. I'm way too much of a lead foot to even take advantage of it..lol. I've owned the car for almost 9 months and I have yet to calculate or even care about MPG rating.

I think I'll use your tests to guage whether or not I should start building the bottom end first, or after getting the top end worked out.

[FastMatt]

Definately not bad at all!

I'm thinking I'll end up doing away with MDS all together. I'm way too much of a lead foot to even take advantage of it..lol. I've owned the car for almost 9 months and I have yet to calculate or even care about MPG rating.

I think I'll use your tests to guage whether or not I should start building the bottom end first, or after getting the top end worked out.


this thread may intrest you then

http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22791

[MadC]

Hey Matt - with the small Comp cam, even though it runs with MDS, would it perform better with non-MDS Lifters and MDS disabled?

[RTjunkie]

Another question regarding MadC's, what happens when you change out the MDS lifters to Non-MDS lifters? Does the PCM flip out since it can't engage MDS??

[MadC]

Another question regarding MadC's, what happens when you change out the MDS lifters to Non-MDS lifters? Does the PCM flip out since it can't engage MDS??

I would guess the best solution here would be the Mopar PCM ($288) or the B&G flash ($450), both of which disable MDS programatically.....

[FastMatt]

Hey Matt - with the small Comp cam, even though it runs with MDS, would it perform better with non-MDS Lifters and MDS disabled?


If I was going to ditch the MDS, I would go with a bigger cam like the stage 2.

[FastMatt]

Another question regarding MadC's, what happens when you change out the MDS lifters to Non-MDS lifters? Does the PCM flip out since it can't engage MDS??


At this point I just left the MDS solenoids plugged in, and under the intake but not into the block. I have the mopar block off plugs in the holes.

So at this point the MDS is disconnected mechanically, but not in the ECU.

So far is seems to be working fine. Has not even thrown a code.

[1FST4DR]

Anything for a srt-8??

[ekool]

I am not aware that porting (removal of material) is going to give much difference between 'methods', unless there are many different ways to form the gas paths when grinding/milling.

I was talking stock intake/exhaust by the way :)


I think there is a HUGE difference between different methods of porting. Head porting is a very complex process. Simply taking out alot of material doesnt make it flow better. Doing heads takes a lifetime of experience and patience. I always stick with companies who provide quality service and have been around for a long time and always have customers who post TRACK figures to back up their "numbers".

Just my 2c.

[1FST4DR]

I think there is a HUGE difference between different methods of porting. Head porting is a very complex process. Simply taking out alot of material doesnt make it flow better. Doing heads takes a lifetime of experience and patience. I always stick with companies who provide quality service and have been around for a long time and always have customers who post TRACK figures to back up their "numbers".

Just my 2c."Oh" so i guess i cant practice porting and polishing your cylinder heads??:grin:

[FastMatt]

Anything for a srt-8??


Yes we do, we have heads for the 6.1L also.

http://www.dynamicracing.com/customer/product.php?productid=544&cat=204&page=1

[1FST4DR]

Yes we do, we have heads for the 6.1L also.

http://www.dynamicracing.com/customer/product.php?productid=544&cat=204&page=1
What kind of gains can i expect to see,with say port &polish w/ a cam??
In other words whats the best bang for my buck??

[FastMatt]

What kind of gains can i expect to see,with say port &polish w/ a cam??
In other words whats the best bang for my buck??

The Stock SRT-8 cam is much better them the 5.7L cam. I would expect very nice gains on the 6.1L even with the stock cam in place, with no change is drivability at all.

As for a cam in the SRT-8's, I will be testing out some grinds for the SRT-8's as soon as we can. I'm leaning towards the comp stage 3 cam in the SRT-8's:)

[ekool]

"Oh" so i guess i cant practice porting and polishing your cylinder heads??:grin:
Sure you can practice, but I require a $2000 deposit on them plus exchange heads :)

[1FST4DR]

:lol: Sure you can practice, but I require a $2000 deposit on them plus exchange heads :)

[arfur]

I think there is a HUGE difference between different methods of porting. Head porting is a very complex process. Simply taking out alot of material doesnt make it flow better. Doing heads takes a lifetime of experience and patience. I always stick with companies who provide quality service and have been around for a long time and always have customers who post TRACK figures to back up their "numbers".

Just my 2c.
Well - that sounds fair enuff to me. Was just surprised that (considering the lack of material in a real sense that can be removed before puncturing through the head and wrecking it) it made such a difference in the big scheme of things when the heads alone have been flowed and ported (no other intake/exhaust mods - as stated). Anyway, just going on advice given by a company that provides a quality service and trades here!

Just digging my way through the carp.....

[Dan]

Well stock the cars are rated at 340 crank HP, and on the dyno we use thy always seem to dyno 268-272. This charger that we did the heads on Dynoed 274 with a magnaflow exhaust installed. So we are looking at ~ a 20% Drive line loss. and that’s really not bad for a car with a auto.

so a 72 WHEEL hp gain is so at a 20% DL loss you would need to gain ~90HP at the crank to get 72 at the wheels. (90x 0.80 = 72)

Not bad for ported heads, headers, and a small MDS cam.

So that puts it right up there with the SRT8 then? That's with adding a CAI, catback, headers, port and polish heads, and cam? About 3500-4000 for it all I'd assume.

[MadC]

So that puts it right up there with the SRT8 then? That's with adding a CAI, catback, headers, port and polish heads, and cam? About 3500-4000 for it all I'd assume.

Yep - Closer to the $4k mark - less installation......

[str8frmw]

Those are some really good #'s cant wait to get going on mine!

[GSRT-8]

With all this work on the heads, cams and etc. what does this do to hal?

[jim383]

i think just buying the srt-8 is still better than modding the r/t and this way with the srt-8 you keep your warrenty intacked. with the heads,cam,and headers its still not putting out the power that the srt-8 do all stock.

[ekool]

I think the SRT8 is an excellent buy for the money. However, for those people who bought the standard hemi before the SRT8 was out, or just could not afford the SRT8 at the time, they now have an option to be in the same performance category as the SRT8.

[Dan]

i think just buying the srt-8 is still better than modding the r/t and this way with the srt-8 you keep your warrenty intacked. with the heads,cam,and headers its still not putting out the power that the srt-8 do all stock.

Well he's getting 346 rwhp with the changes I mentioned. That's real close to the SRT8 stock iirc.

[FastMatt]

Well he's getting 346 rwhp with the changes I mentioned. That's real close to the SRT8 stock iirc.


and the car runs faster then stock SRT-8 chargers/ 300c's do out here at the track. Sounds much better, and gets better gas milage with MDS still working.


and the car runs faster then stock SRT-8 chargers/ 300c's do out here at the track. Sounds much better, and gets better gas mileage with MDS still working.

This Charger was 29K new out the door, try getting a SRT-8 charger for less then 40K

Now if you have a SRT-8 modding it will give you even more power. The same mods on a SRT-8 should put you well over 400 at the wheels.

[1bad4dr]

Well he's getting 346 rwhp with the changes I mentioned. That's real close to the SRT8 stock iirc.

Close but still about 20rwhp away from the SRT8's power... Now add in the SRT8's suspension, braking ability, Hood, front valance, wing, rims and tires, tranny and rearend and you have a self made SRT8... :D

If it is just the power that you are looking for, then it is a Fantastic deal, but you really cannot compare an R/T with mods to a stock SRT8.

Not flaming, just giving all the differences here. :)

[str8frmw]

Hey Matt you guys offer any package deals? And have you guy ever tried to put a 6.1 cam in a 5.7? Or is this not even a option?

[Dan]

and the car runs faster then stock SRT-8 chargers/ 300c's do out here at the track. Sounds much better, and gets better gas milage with MDS still working.


and the car runs faster then stock SRT-8 chargers/ 300c's do out there at the track. Sounds much better, and gets better gas mileage with MDS still working.

This Charger was 29K new out the door, try getting a SRT-8 charger for less then 40K

Any idea on the reliability with this type of setup? A lot of people are at least a little worried about their warranties and extended warranties possibly being voided. How is it idling with the cam? Is it ideal for a daily driver who wants performance without sacrificing driveability? The combination of big power and still getting good mpg is real tempting. Then I'd slap a Ramair hood on and a RK rear spoiler and have my own beast that'd stand out from stock R/T's and SRT8's.

[Dan]

Close but still about 20rwhp away from the SRT8's power... Now add in the SRT8's suspension, braking ability, Hood, front valance, wing, rims and tires, tranny and rearend and you have a self made SRT8... :D

If it is just the power that you are looking for, then it is a Fantastic deal, but you really cannot compare an R/T with mods to a stock SRT8.

Not flaming, just giving all the differences here. :)

Somehow FastMatt has his running faster than a stock SRT8 at the track. I'm not sure how he's doing that or what could account for the hp difference.

The hood, front valance, wing, and rims are cosmetic. Personally I'd rather make it my own. I don't think it's so much as trying to make an SRT8 as it is trying to increase the power on a 5.7 which is a pretty damn practical car to begin with in terms of price, performance, mpg, features, etc.

[FastMatt]

Any idea on the reliability with this type of setup? A lot of people are at least a little worried about their warranties and extended warranties possibly being voided. How is it idling with the cam? Is it ideal for a daily driver who wants performance without sacrificing driveability? The combination of big power and still getting good mpg is real tempting. Then I'd slap a Ramair hood on and a RK rear spoiler and have my own beast that'd stand out from stock R/T's and SRT8's.



This car had over 8000 miles put on it with the heads/ Stage 1 cam/headers/exhaust/cai/SC tuner and not a single problem.

idle with the stage 1 cam is not bad at all, but sounds cool.

So far with the stage 2 cam, the idle is a bit lumpy, sounds really cool:)

I'm going to be installing one of these soon, I bleave it should smooth out the idle a bit. (not to mention add power from fine tuning the A/F)



http://www.dynamicracing.com/customer/product.php?productid=564&cat=204&page=1

[RTjunkie]

Matt - Is that unit easily used with the 06 Hemi's with MDS?

How hard would an install be?

[FastMatt]

The hood, front valance, wing, and rims are cosmetic


And give the car more drag and weight

larger brakes are also heavier.

So stock SRT-8 owners that think thy can race even a small cammed heads/cam 5.7L car and trounce them is in for a rood awakening. (in a striate line at least) I raced a 300C SRT-8 from a roll last week in this car and all he saw was tail lights.

[FastMatt]

Matt - Is that unit easily used with the 06 Hemi's with MDS?

How hard would an install be?

I have yet to use a ARC-1 on a LX car , but I will be very soon. (the split second ARC-2 is what I use for fuel control on my 9 second Stealth, as well ass all my other 3000gt/stealth cars)

[str8frmw]

Hey Matt you guys offer any package deals? And have you guy ever tried to put a 6.1 cam in a 5.7? Or is this not even a option?

?????

[FastMatt]

Hey Matt you guys offer any package deals? And have you guy ever tried to put a 6.1 cam in a 5.7? Or is this not even a option?


we have a Package deal going on now on the heads/cam $1999, you save $159

if sombody wanted to add headers/exhaust to that I would work out some kind of a deal.

The 6.1L cam will go in the 5.7L cars but the MDS must be removed. The power gains from the 6.1L cam are UNDER that of the Comp stage 1 cam and the comp stage 1 you can keep the MDS with.

[str8frmw]

we have a Package deal going on now on the heads/cam $1999, you save $159

if sombody wanted to add headers/exhaust to that I would work out some kind of a deal.

The 6.1L cam will go in the 5.7L cars but the MDS must be removed. The power gains from the 6.1L cam are UNDER that of the Comp stage 1 cam and the comp stage 1 you can keep the MDS with.

sweet thanks for the info

[RTjunkie]

we have a Package deal going on now on the heads/cam $1999, you save $159

if sombody wanted to add headers/exhaust to that I would work out some kind of a deal.

The 6.1L cam will go in the 5.7L cars but the MDS must be removed. The power gains from the 6.1L cam are UNDER that of the Comp stage 1 cam and the comp stage 1 you can keep the MDS with.



If I only had 2K right now :( lol