Can't believe I've been missing out on all the GSM SC gossip

[LosingSleep]

http://www.thegriffinclan.com/images/MVC-022F%5B2%5D-1.JPG

http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=40831&highlight=ticking

OOOH OUCH!

Anybody know how many motors they've smoked? I understand that it's not a SC failure but it's allowing the front two cylinders to run lean and smoking pistons. I hope they gave you guys a good warranty.

[TNCHARGER]

http://www.thegriffinclan.com/images/MVC-022F%5B2%5D-1.JPG

http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=40831&highlight=ticking

OOOH OUCH!

Anybody know how many motors they've smoked? I understand that it's not a SC failure but it's allowing the front two cylinders to run lean and smoking pistons. I hope they gave you guys a good warranty.


and OUCH again...

[Fuel 100]

That's the first I have heard of it.

[TNCHARGER]

I have seen several stories like that...1bad4dr blew his engine with the GSM blower but he admitted that he played with the A/F and screwed up...wonder how many other mishaps with the GSM SC are owner caused?

[Puropuro]

Let's please be civil on this topic guys.....on LXforums they got pretty heated.
I've had a good experience with GSM so far, and am happy with them.
In terms of the SC issues though, it has made me rethink my mod fantasies a bit....no longer hot on forced induction, no matter who does the work. I would still be very comfortable having GSM do a head swap on my car. They're good people.

[LosingSleep]

I have seen several stories like that...1bad4dr blew his engine with the GSM blower but he admitted that he played with the A/F and screwed up...wonder how many other mishaps with the GSM SC are owner caused?



If you read through that thread, the HEAT guys predict that 50-70% of the engines will fail. One guy already smoked two motors. :smoke:

[Kolk1]

So let me guess, No LS1 car during new testing blew a motor?? No 03-04 Cobras have ever blown a motor during KB testing?? OR the thousand of other cars that KB, or Vortec or any other Turbo/Supercharger company has made upgrades for??

Its going to happen.

[LosingSleep]

So let me guess, No LS1 car during new testing blew a motor?? No 03-04 Cobras have ever blown a motor during KB testing?? OR the thousand of other cars that KB, or Vortec or any other Turbo/Supercharger company has made upgrades for??

Its going to happen.



Who are you responding to? Or are you just trying to stay a step ahead?

[Kolk1]

He just mentioned, hes thinking about not doing FI anymore because of this, and I guess someof the people on LX forums as well. Its pretty much a brand new product, and adds ALOT of power, its not like a new air filter.

Personally, I think they are going to have problems until a real tuning program is introduced.

[PowerWagon896]

Cast pistons do not generally fare well under forced induction.

If you are going to force feed the beast, get into the block and replace the cast pistons W/forged.

Now the weak link will be the rods. Replace the rods W/stronger units.

Now the crank is the weak link. Install a forged crank.

Se where this is going?

[NYT]

my buddy and his 06 E55 has been in the shop twice now for an engine replacement. new engines and FI go hand in hand. just wait till they start going nitrous + SC.

[TorRed 1161]

Anyone know which site their post #64 is talking about, where the report of a product failure was censored?

[str8frmw]

I think this is why we havent seen a Supercharger company come out with a kit for these cars yet!Otherwise you would see Vortech,Whipple,Magnason with kits.Thats why before Paxton sold to Vortech they quit offering the kits for the Ram 5.7 Hemi because they coudnt crack the computor.

[Bigphil]

buy a viper?

[ManWagon]

Anyone know which site their post #64 is talking about, where the report of a product failure was censored?

That would be 300cforums.

[HEMEEE]

Anyone know which site their post #64 is talking about, where the report of a product failure was censored?
That would be 300cforums.
He was absolutely NOT "censored" for posting his supporting vendor product failure!

Thread-crapping posts were made in an ad in the Buy/Sell forum (http://www.300cforums.com/forums/parts-buy-sell-area/23133-gs-motorsports-big-boost-kit-srt8.html), which has specific posted rules against just that. His posts, and several others, were removed ONLY for that reason. It was also made clear that he was more than welcome to start his own thread about his blown motor in the proper forum rather than jack another member's attempts to sell, but he chose not to for whatever reason. Now, when members question why those with blown motors have kept quiet rather than making fellow members aware of their plight, the term 'censored' is conveniently thrown out there, along with completely unfair accusations of money being the motivator or vendors being more important than members... NOT TRUE!

There are numerous instances of supporting vendor complaints on our forums; members are certainly NOT censored from posting their vendor experiences, good or bad.
Those posts help members make buying decisions and help vendors improve their service.

Sorry, couldn't stand by and let that one go... Back on topic

[GLHS837]

Hell, I've been an outspoken critic of the torque mod since day one. And called BS on the gearing thing. While vendors rights are respected, so are members.
There are times and places for things, and in a members buy/sell thread isnt one of them.

[PRoBLeMz]

hehe awesome, get some, GET SOME MODERATORS!... seriously, the OP just totally went after GSM like hey, you know what! for bring the first you should fry for having issues with your SC! I feel bad for the users of the SC and had there engines melted, but hey.... new product! and it happens, spend that kinda cash, better have some backup to fix it also!


I give props to GSM for being the first, at least they took the first step to making all these power hungry Charger owners happy! I am sure the SC owners were loving the hell out of their Chargers smashing that gas pedal all the time ;)
i know I would hehe

[arfur]

ratman1648 has a huge sig...is it within the limits we are now allowed....?

I thought all the forums had been capped at smaller than that - it clogs up the posts etc blah blah...

Back on topic... :)

[PRoBLeMz]

ratman1648 has a huge sig...is it within the limits we are now allowed....?

I thought all the forums had been capped at smaller than that - it clogs up the posts etc blah blah...

Back on topic... :)

LoL you are such a Hater ;)

[elcobra44]

I've been happy with my limited experiences with GSM.. I'd still pick up a kit if and when the prices become reasonable.

I thought all the forums had been capped at smaller than that - it clogs up the posts etc blah blah...
It was your Stormtroopers that ruined the fun for us.. :cry:

Now I have to wear my glasses to see the pretty pictures.....

[Curz]

ratman1648 has a huge sig...is it within the limits we are now allowed....?

I thought all the forums had been capped at smaller than that - it clogs up the posts etc blah blah...

Back on topic... :)

taddletale

[Dutch]

So let me guess, No LS1 car during new testing blew a motor?? No 03-04 Cobras have ever blown a motor during KB testing?? OR the thousand of other cars that KB, or Vortec or any other Turbo/Supercharger company has made upgrades for??

Its going to happen.

Exactly. That's what makes it fun (and expensive). That's also how you find out the limits of how far you can push the engine. The whole community benefits from every destroyed engine. It's part of the learning process.

[RR/TT]

as long as it is not my motor blowing up i am fine. it is great that there is even a supercharger available. couple of concerns that i have with the supercharger that is out now is the cost to hp ratio. it would seem that you could have a cam (w/mds delete for more hp), heads, intake, headers, catback, bg tune, that may get you close to the same performance on a 5.7L. the bolt ons would be easier to work with and cost might be close if not less.

if this supercharger was released and not fully developed or tested that would be unfortunate. then again how long does it take to melt a piston? if there is a problem it should have shown up during testing. there should also be a number or ratio we can work with, for example if 1000 kits are sold how many engines have failed out of that 1000 units? what is an acceptable failure rate for a supercharged engine? 1 out of a 100, 1000, 10,000, or should it last 50k miles before it starts to rattle apart?

anybody have a engine with just bolt on as described above with a hp and tq est.?

[Dookie]

I've said this more than once, but here we go again....It's not the pistons, it's not the blower, it's not the boost they are producing causing failures...it's the intake manifold design and fuel delivery system...Look to the LS1, 2, & 6 communities...similar design...similar result...We have a DRY manifold design...auxilary injectors are poo poo for us...guys also spraying a single nozzle nitrous into the TB..beware...keep it under 125 for sure...If you want to spray use a direct port method...if you want to boost, use SS calibrations and 2.5 bar map sensor and dyno tune it in with factory injsectors....you may even have to increase injector size and FAST stand alone depending on boost levels.

[arfur]

I've said this more than once, but here we go again....It's not the pistons, it's not the blower, it's not the boost they are producing causing failures...it's the intake manifold design and fuel delivery system...Look to the LS1, 2, & 6 communities...similar design...similar result...We have a DRY manifold design...auxilary injectors are poo poo for us...guys also spraying a single nozzle nitrous into the TB..beware...keep it under 125 for sure...If you want to spray use a direct port method...if you want to boost, use SS calibrations and 2.5 bar map sensor and dyno tune it in with factory injsectors....you may even have to increase injector size and FAST stand alone depending on boost levels.
LISTEN to this man - for goodness sake! :)

[Banana13]

You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Computer models are great, but ya don't know until ya do it... it's called R&D and it's never been an inexpensive or quick process. It would be fantastic if they got it right the first time, but it ain't gonna happen. I'd judge them by how they handle the situation. If they support you, and you don't mind going through the development process, then I wouldn't worry about it. If they get squirrely and leave you hanging, then I'd quit while I was ahead.

That being said, you're trying to strap a supercharger on an engine that wasn't built for it. If you want to run forced induction, chances are you're going to have to invest some time and money into setting the engine up properly. The compression ratio needs to change, new hi-flo fuel pump, injectors, engine management... the list goes on and on... I'm sure there's a solution, it will just take time...

Think back to the "Roadrunner" cartoons... strapping a rocket to your back
isn't necessarily the best idea for going fast... the engine is you and the supercharger is the rocket... :smoke:

[arfur]

You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Computer models are great, but ya don't know until ya do it... it's called R&D and it's never been an inexpensive or quick process.

generally, not using your customers cars for this process tends to work.... ;)

[maneval69]

Shenanigans!!!

[J Weezy]

So far i have had great experiance I should recieve my product on Wensday. So I cant say anything about that currently.

But i have been provided GREAT and excellent customer service from them.

-Justin

[RR/TT]

So far i have had great experiance I should recieve my product on Wensday. So I cant say anything about that currently.

But i have been provided GREAT and excellent customer service from them.

-Justin

would that product be a supercharger?

[Banana13]

generally, not using your customers cars for this process tends to work.... ;)

n'yeah but how many car manufacturers sell product before they've got all of the bugs worked out... most of the major ones have had major recalls at one point or another...
If it's a case of GS is just selling these things to the general public and engines are getting blown up then that kinda sucks. Hopefully they take ownership of the situations that occur. I got the sense that a lot of the guys that had the superchargers already were on a first names basis with these guys... Aren't these the same guys that were on Dream Car Garage doing that build up on the two Chargers?

[RobAGD]

Lets see if I can recall the names :

Obiwon 2nd dead on to 3rd motor
Armidillos never has run right
Ghostfacemagnum
I know of 2 more thats are not public knowledge
I know 2 other that I suspect killed motors but are not talking

I know of a handfull more, but the list is typically keep is at home.

I think I can safely say that just on LXF ther have been 10 motors that have all killed 1 of the front 2 pistons with GSM kits.

GSM developed a kit for the cars and that have sold a load of them.

I think the problem comes from the manifold issues and leaning out the front 2 holes. The manifold is dry design, heavy fuel wont make the turns. What happens is you get 2 holes running 9:1 AF and 6 holes running 16.6 AF the wide band in the factory hole is going to read that as 14.7 and general thats fine except that that 9:1 holes are too hot, too lean and knocking.

Also several people I have talked to have had the motors puke while at part throttle, under conditions that factory system make may teh system run a little lean for MPG/Emmissions.

The true way to test this would be to run 8 Wide bands in a long tube or shorty header as far away as they can manage from the exhaust port and monitor each cyclinder for A/F and I would suggest EGT. Then you will see whats happening in each hole. I would almost be willing to spot up a pay check that the GSM us running way lean on those front 2 holes.

The safest way to make power right now is Direct Port N2O, No Hal issues and your directly shooting the gas to each hole and not having to try and get it to make turns that it really dosent want to.

-R

[MotorCity Muscle]

Ladies and gentlemen, the charger SRT line is only 1 year old! Putting aftermarket superchargers into the 6.1 is venturing into the unknown, even for SRT engineers. Most line have 'bugs' in their first year, and adding a SC is like pouring gas onto a fire. Gonna wait until my 36k warranty is up before I make that mod....

[GEORGE]

I Don"t Understand Why Everyone Is Talking But Scott Or Papa Mike.
Whats Up G.s.m.????? No Smoke ??????
George

[LoneStar]

A lot is being said here but the very first post showing a pile of gernaded piston pieces is enough for me to cross a GSM SC off my wish list.

[arfur]

A lot is being said here but the very first post showing a pile of gernaded piston pieces is enough for me to cross a GSM SC off my wish list.
As it should do to anybody else. I can't believe that peeps would still, knowing that there is a potential fuelling issue resulting on a perfectly serviceable engine being totally junked (I am assuming that the internal damage is such that so many parts get damaged in the aftermath of 1-2 pistons turning into rubble) actually try and fit one of these things to their engine! May as well just chuck sand in the oil filler!

[armadillo]

Lets see if I can recall the names :

Obiwon 2nd dead on to 3rd motor
Armidillos never has run right
Ghostfacemagnum
I know of 2 more thats are not public knowledge
I know 2 other that I suspect killed motors but are not talking

I know of a handfull more, but the list is typically keep is at home.

I think I can safely say that just on LXF ther have been 10 motors that have all killed 1 of the front 2 pistons with GSM kits.

GSM developed a kit for the cars and that have sold a load of them.

I think the problem comes from the manifold issues and leaning out the front 2 holes. The manifold is dry design, heavy fuel wont make the turns. What happens is you get 2 holes running 9:1 AF and 6 holes running 16.6 AF the wide band in the factory hole is going to read that as 14.7 and general thats fine except that that 9:1 holes are too hot, too lean and knocking.

Also several people I have talked to have had the motors puke while at part throttle, under conditions that factory system make may teh system run a little lean for MPG/Emmissions.

The true way to test this would be to run 8 Wide bands in a long tube or shorty header as far away as they can manage from the exhaust port and monitor each cyclinder for A/F and I would suggest EGT. Then you will see whats happening in each hole. I would almost be willing to spot up a pay check that the GSM us running way lean on those front 2 holes.

The safest way to make power right now is Direct Port N2O, No Hal issues and your directly shooting the gas to each hole and not having to try and get it to make turns that it really dosent want to.

-R
You are correct on the cause, in addition the wrong plugs are used and the two extra injectors do not work well, the fuel mapping system does not hold a fuel map if the power supply is removed (sometimes) by disconnecting the battery. The GS blower off Obi's car has destroyed 4 engines, between 3 owners - and it's not from owner error. I know of a lot more failures than those listed. I have spent many many hours of dyno time and road time with the fuel maps, with a well respected tuner - could never get it to run more than a few minutes as it should. The same problem existed with the Hemi trucks with the GS supercharger - no one can tune them, well, keep them tuned enough to overcome the flawed system.

[Dookie]

.

I think the problem comes from the manifold issues and leaning out the front 2 holes. The manifold is dry design, heavy fuel wont make the turns. What happens is you get 2 holes running 9:1 AF and 6 holes running 16.6 AF the wide band in the factory hole is going to read that as 14.7 and general thats fine except that that 9:1 holes are too hot, too lean and knocking.
:yes: Exactly...and it shouldn't be a surprise either...LS1's have been out for almost 10 years and same $h!t happens with that manifold design. That's why aftermarket ones like this:
http://www.lingenfelter.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/product_images/fastint04.jpg
Come direct ported for N2O...or if you boost, you need to, and can hack the factory PCM on LSx powered GM cars to tune for boost with LS1 Edit.
This is very similar design as what ALL Hemi powered LX cars have. (I think DC knew how well it flowed AIR and mimicked it)





The safest way to make power right now is Direct Port N2O, No Hal issues and your directly shooting the gas to each hole and not having to try and get it to make turns that it really dosent want to.

-RTrue, and that's exactly what i'm doing, plus adding forged pistons and billet rods...But also, Marty at KRC has a way for F/I and use a 2 bar map, add 8 injectors and tune it all...hit him up if you are serious about F/I for a Hemi LX.

[kalbc]

May as well just chuck sand in the oil filler!

How much horse power does that add?

[arfur]

How much horse power does that add?
About 3.2 on a good day.... :)

[LosingSleep]

About 3.2 on a good day.... :)




Is that for all 7 cylinders?

[arfur]

Is that for all 7 cylinders?
I standardised for that eventuality.....