One at MSRP [Archive] - Dodge Charger Forums

: One at MSRP


GLHS837
08-26-2005, 01:23 PM
Hi All,

Since I have changed my plans, I stopped in to let my guy at the dealership know I was not buying til the 07s arrived. He was cool. I asked if he would be willing to give that same deal (MSRP on ordered cars) to someone else.

He said he could, so I'm tossing it out there. Area is Southern Maryland, zip code 20653. Dealership is Park Dodge, 301-737-0088, guys name is Lou. I'm pretty confident in them having at least one good allocation, any others, I can't say.

FullyCharged
08-28-2005, 10:37 PM
Are you saying they will sell the SRT-8 for MSRP now in 2005/2006, or in 2007 when you plan on getting yours??

GLHS837
08-29-2005, 04:03 AM
Yes, a 2006. There are no 2005 Chargers. This car would have been the one I was going to buy. They have agreed that they will honor the MSRP offer for anyone I send to them.
They offered me $50 for each, but I told them I dont care about that.

FullyCharged
08-29-2005, 05:39 AM
Well I meant the purchase of a 2006 SRT8 in late 2005, if they are to show up that early... You know..... OK Sounds good. If my local dealer feels like trying to put the screws to me with crazy markup we may have to find out just how serious this guy is about his offer. I'm in northern VA so it won't be very far of a drive for me.

GLHS837
08-29-2005, 06:11 AM
I"m not sure how far past one I would trust their allocation. I'm pretty confident of that one, since he does put some Chargers on the road, and he's rolled both a 300C and SRT-8 Mag through already.

Inferno Charger
08-29-2005, 06:47 AM
I was shocked to hear the dealership near me is going to take $1500 off MSRP on the R/T with AWT Package that I sat in last week so I am kinda curious what it would be for an SRT-8........if they go that much off I would be in heven since I intend on putting down approximately $10,000 and an SRT-8 might then be with-in my reach.

Later

GLHS837
08-29-2005, 07:57 AM
Now keep in mind, this same dealer plans on at least a 5K markup for any non-ordered cars, like he has on the Daytona he has.

These cars will have a much more limited production than the R/Ts.

Inferno Charger
08-29-2005, 11:26 AM
Well, this car was sitting on his lot also and was taking $1500 off even thought the AWT package is pretty new. He could easily ask more then MSRP.

Later

JohnnyG
09-01-2005, 07:04 PM
Hi All,

Since I have changed my plans, I stopped in to let my guy at the dealership know I was not buying til the 07s arrived. He was cool. I asked if he would be willing to give that same deal (MSRP on ordered cars) to someone else.

He said he could, so I'm tossing it out there. Area is Southern Maryland, zip code 20653. Dealership is Park Dodge, 301-737-0088, guys name is Lou. I'm pretty confident in them having at least one good allocation, any others, I can't say.
Brother what happened?!! A change of plans?!! I thought for sure you were getting the srt-8 this year! :sad: I know your probably disappointed! Hang in there,and good luck. :happy:

GLHS837
09-01-2005, 08:15 PM
Nah, I'm fine. No major deal. If I wait til next summer, I can swing keeping the SRT-4 also. And it lets me do some stuff to the house. Sucks to be responsible sometimes:)

Wife left the choice up to me, I made the call. Got the full preapproved loan right here, gotta call and cancel it.

JohnnyG
09-02-2005, 02:37 AM
Nah, I'm fine. No major deal. If I wait til next summer, I can swing keeping the SRT-4 also. And it lets me do some stuff to the house. Sucks to be responsible sometimes:)

Wife left the choice up to me, I made the call. Got the full preapproved loan right here, gotta call and cancel it.
Hey,you know what,it might be the smartest move and maybe prices will have come down by then.Its always difficult to make the tough choices,but I commend you for having the courage to follow through,it'll pay off for you in the long run.Hang in there. :wink:

SRT8Texas
09-07-2005, 09:40 AM
New poster here; is there ANY chance that dealers on this site or "friendly" dealers will offer an SRT8 at dealer cost +5%? That's less than invoice.

Do I need to be slapped into reality??

GLHS837
09-07-2005, 09:42 AM
Nah. I'm pretty sure the dealer you ask will handle that:)

Jeff
09-07-2005, 09:57 AM
New poster here; is there ANY chance that dealers on this site or "friendly" dealers will offer an SRT8 at dealer cost +5%? That's less than invoice.

Do I need to be slapped into reality??
probably next year they might.

SRT8Texas
09-07-2005, 10:33 AM
Ok, that's good to hear. I wasn't planning on purchasing until Spring (Mar-May) of '06. I know they won't give dealer cost +5% right off the bat on a limited model, unless you knew the dealer personally, etc.

Jeff
09-07-2005, 12:08 PM
I was saying more like sept-nov of 06 you may find a deal.

SRT8Texas
09-08-2005, 11:40 AM
Oh geez, ok. I'm a patient man, which seems to be rare here, lol. It just gives me more time to save up.

JRacer
09-10-2005, 10:54 AM
Guys, I'm a dealer in Mt. Vernon IN. Obviously I don't have an SRT-8 yet, but I have a Daytona (#92 of 4,000) sitting in my showroom that I will let go for under MSRP. I also have another Daytona arriving any day now.

moparfan
09-10-2005, 11:10 PM
"dealer plans on at least a 5K markup"

Not sure what anyone else has heard, but the General Managers at ALL 5-star SRT dealerships in the Tampa area have personally assured me that there will be absolutely NO markup over MSRP for the Charger SRT8. Maybe this is different in other market areas...?

Also, I have been advised by Dodge that I should put a deposit down at a dealership due to a very limited production and allocation. My question is this... what if I put a deposit down at one of the 4 dealerships in my area and they don't get one of the first shipments of the SRT8? Then I'm sitting and waiting for my car to finally arrive. Do I have to put down a deposit at ALL dealerships to ensure I'll get one of the first cars delivered to my area? Why can't I put down a deposit with "Dodge" and get one of the first deliveries at ANY dealership in my area??

DodgeMan
09-12-2005, 08:19 AM
The deposit is dealer specific, you can't go directly to Dodge with it. Your best bet is to do your research....talk to each dealer (manager) and try to determine which dealer has the best chance of getting an early (or any) allotment. Then put your money there. If they can't get you the car you can always cancel, pull your money and go elsewhere.

Here on Long Island I reduced the field to 4 dealers that I thought had the best shot. No one would commit to a price before it showed up in the system (not sure what that strategy was since the numbers had been out for weeks). When the time came, dealer #1 told me the car would sell for 50 grand. I queued the laugh track and hung up. Dealer #2 gave me 4000 over MSRP. Dealer #3 assured me that his deal of 2500 over was going to be the best. I settled with dealer #4 who would go no lower than 1500 over.

I'm sure other markets will vary, I'd be curious to hear what dealers in other markets are willing to do this early on.

GLHS837
09-12-2005, 10:27 AM
Damn, DM, it cost a helluva lot less than $1500 to drive down here and back to LI, figure what, maybe 6-8 hours, tops.

DodgeMan
09-12-2005, 10:36 AM
GLH...yep good point, but there's more to it than just the $$$. Time, effort, family and work obligations factor into the equation for me. I had to come up with what I hope is a liveable compromise. Happy wife = happy life :happy:

moparfan
09-12-2005, 06:26 PM
I'd be curious to hear what dealers in other markets are willing to do this early on.

The ordering guy at the dealership sent me a copy of the Vehicle Order and it showed two sets of figures.

One column was labeled "MSRP" (obviously know what that is) and the other column was labeled "FWP" ??

CO-Charger
09-12-2005, 11:27 PM
FWP = Fleet Wholesale Price (Invoice)

moparfan
09-13-2005, 07:44 PM
FWP = Fleet Wholesale Price (Invoice)

Ah... thanks. If that's really what the dealer is paying and I pay MSRP, they're only making ~$2,400 on my deal. Interesting.

GLHS837
09-13-2005, 08:35 PM
Dont forget holdback. +3% for the dealer.

SRT8Texas
09-14-2005, 08:34 AM
Pie-in-the-sky would be to pay dealer cost +5%. I highly doubt that the greedy dealerships would accept such a deal, but they're still making 5%, which is great.

moparfan
09-14-2005, 08:53 AM
Pie-in-the-sky would be to pay dealer cost +5%. I highly doubt that the greedy dealerships would accept such a deal, but they're still making 5%, which is great.

According to my Vehicle Order sheet, FWP is $40,746 and MSRP is $43,115

By my calculations, that's 5.8% over dealer cost... unless "FWP" is not really the dealer cost.

SRT8Texas
09-14-2005, 10:40 AM
No, I think there is holdback in FWP, so they will be making more than that. I've read "Confessions of a Car Salesman" a few times, but it's been a while back. I still think if you talked to the floor manager and asked for "dealer cost +5%" he'd laugh and show you the door. Or, he might say, "did you mean invoice?", which are totally different.

joescat
09-14-2005, 10:49 AM
No, I think there is holdback in FWP, so they will be making more than that. I've read "Confessions of a Car Salesman" a few times, but it's been a while back. I still think if you talked to the floor manager and asked for "dealer cost +5%" he'd laugh and show you the door. Or, he might say, "did you mean invoice?", which are totally different.

So, is the only way to obtain "dealer cost" figures is through one of the services I.E. Consumer Report pricing service, etc.?

moparfan
09-14-2005, 10:52 AM
So, is the only way to obtain "dealer cost" figures is through one of the services I.E. Consumer Report pricing service, etc.?

I guess that depends on whether "FWP" is actually dealer "cost".

Just got back from the dealer where I placed my order and showed the Sales Mgr. the Vehicle Order sheet I got from their Order Processor. It has the FWP pricing on the sheet. He said, "He wasn't supposed to send you that information". :wink:

SRT8Texas
09-14-2005, 10:57 AM
You can find out exactly what the dealer paid for the vehicle, but a lot of times they get incentives (or discounts) that aren't so easy to find. Nobody knows what the actual cost to make the vehicle is, but I imagine we'd all be sick if we knew.

I guess the whole point is, buying "less than invoice" means the dealer still makes a good profit, over 5%. Of course, buying MSRP means they stand to make a great profit. Buying anything over sticker is just plain ridiculous.

BigBadHemi
09-17-2005, 04:59 AM
I can show those interested parties exactly what the dealer cost is, what the holdback is, or "hidden profit" built in to the price, that the dealer receives from the manufacturer and is non-negotiable to the customer. However, the previous poster's contention that the profit margin on these cars, (or most any car for that matter), is substantial, simply doesn't understand all of the costs of selling each and every vehicle.
The profit margin for a dealership in the modern auto industry is actually pretty small. In the context of the broader consumer marketplace, it is practically neglible. When you consider that most name brand athletic shoes are manufactured for pennies on the dollar in third-world countries and then remarketed to the consumer at $100 a pair, literally hundreds of thousands of percent markup, three thousand on a fifty thousand dollar car is proportionally insignificant. When you consider that your Big Mac costs McDonald's at the most fifty cents to make, and then it's sold to you for more than three bucks, a 7 or 8 percent profit on a product starts to seem neglible. In fact, that 7 or 8 percent profit isn't actually all profit, because there are many overhead costs that come out of this seven or eight percent driving your actual profit margin down a lot further.
I'm not trying to flame anybody, but some posters have no clue what they're talking about. And to be fair, neither did I, before I started working in the industry. And I'm not saying there aren't lots of profits involved in the auto industry, but what I am saying is that it's the manufacturer, not dealerships who are reaping them on the sale of individual vehicles.
I think a lot of misinformation is exchanged in some of these forums because of the confusion between terms like sticker, invoice, and MSRP. I see them constantly being used interchangeably, albeit incorrectly, with people saying things like, "I got mine for five hundred dollars under invoice," and that sort of thing. Doesn't happen. There is a rare exception or two, like Steve White Motors for example, who ebay prices his vehicles, under invoice, but receives volume bonuses and is on shaky ground with his manufacturers. But if any average Joe walks into a dealership anywhere, and a sales manager purposely sells him a vehicle under invoice, especially a popular, or specialty vehicle, he'll most likely lose his job, because no one at any dealership has discretionary authority to go below invoice. Because then you are into holdback, which is really only profit on paper, and is actually a credit from the manufacturer to buy another vehicle.
Once and for all, here is a brief tutorial on how this all works. Hopefully, this will enlighten a few people, and the next time you walk into a dealership, you won't see your salesperson not as a crook, but as a hard-working guy who's praying that he can string together enough $100 mini deals in order to feed his family and pay his rent, and hopefully he'll get lucky enough to sell a specialty car and get extra $800 or so, (whoo hoo!), of disposable income to possibly set aside for something nice or catch up on overdue bills.

-MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) or STICKER is the price you see on the label on each vehicle

- FWP or INVOICE is the price on the invoice which is technically the dealer cost and the salespeople and managers have no discretion to go below without a rebate or incentive.

-The profit that the dealer is making is the difference between the two (MSRP and INVOICE) which is typically between 1300 and 1700 dollars. The difference gets proportionally larger or smaller depending on the vehicles price. For instance, the difference on a 2005 PT Cruiser is about 900 bucks, and the difference on a 2006 Chrysler 300C SRT-8 is around $2800.

-WAIT - Out of that difference comes the salespersons commission, which differs from dealership to dealership but doesn't vary greatly, but on the PT, I would make $100 from the dealer and another $50 from Chrysler, and on the SRT-8, I would make about $900 total. Then the sales manager has to get paid on the deal, because the dealership couldn't function without him and he needs to make a living. Before the vehicle hits the lot it has to go through the service department, which is a completely separate entity financially, so they charge us a fee to inspect and prep the vehicle, and its not cheap, because the service techs and advisors need to be able to make a decent living, as well as cover the service department's overhead costs. Then you have to factor what it costs to keep the lights on in the dealership, put gas in the cars, pay the lot attendants, administrative personell, and detail people who wash the cars. That profit margin starts to dwindle away to nothing, and it's true, there's not a ton of money made on each and every car, even the specialty ones. They make up for most of this of this on the back end, selling warranties and aftermarket products, which are a totally different matter.

-HOLDBACK is the "hidden profit" the manufacturer ensures the dealer by building into the price of the vehicle. On the PT it would be about $600, and on the SRT-8 it is $1348. It looks like profit, but that is actually up for debate, because it is really only a profit on paper. The easiest way to explain it is as a credit to buy another vehicle, because the dealer doesn't recieve it until the end of the vehicle or fiscal year and then it has to be immediately reinvested in the purchase of another vehicle, so it's ACTUALLY part of the operating capital of a dealership and not a profit at all.

-BELIEVE ME PEOPLE - YOUR SALESPEOPLE WANT DESPERATELY TO SELL YOU THAT SRT-8 AT MSRP, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY COULD SELL IT A LOT FASTER, AND ENSURE THEMSELVES A LITTLE EXTRA MONEY AT THE END OF THE MONTH INSTEAD OF THE COMMISION GOING TO SOMEONE ELSE, BUT THEIR GENERAL SALES MANAGERS WON'T LET THEM BECAUSE HE'S TRYING DESPERATELY TO REACH HIS VOLUME NUMBERS AT THE END OF THE MONTH. HE'S PROBABLY GIVING AWAY CARS TO DO SO, BUT HE KNOWS THAT IF HE SELLS ENOUGH CARS TO SATISFY THE GENERAL MANAGER AND FRANCHISERS BUT HIS GROSS PROFIT ISN'T VERY HIGH HE'S GONNA GET CANNED ANYWAY, BECAUSE THE OWNER'S GOT A HUGE MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR LIABILITY THAT'S NOT MAKING ANY MONEY. SO WHAT DOES HE DO? HE HOLDS OUT FOR A LITTLE MORE MONEY, PERHAPS SEVERAL THOUSAND OVER STICKER, BECAUSE THE EVENTUALITY IS THAT SOMEONE'S GOING TO WALK INTO THAT DEALERSHIP AND BUY THAT CAR FOR THAT PRICE BECAUSE ITS CONVENIENT AND ITS THERE AND HE CAN DRIVE AWAY WITH THE CAR. THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN MOST OF THE TIME SOONER RATHER THAN LATER, AND THE GSM IS BANKING ON IT, B/C HE NEEDS THAT 5K OVER TO BOOST HIS GROSS JUST ENOUGH TO ENABLE HIM TO HOLD ONTO HIS JOB FOR ANOTHER MONTH SO HE CAN KEEP SENDING HIS KIDS TO COLLEGE AND WONT HAVE TO PICK UP AND MOVE.

In addition, dealerships aren't awarded extra allocations because they move a lot of specialty vehicles, which they could easily do buy pricing them lower. Dealers receive allocations of that sort because of considerations that have nothing to do with how many Vipers or corvettes they might sell. For instance a dealer might sell a ton of a type of vehicle that's not selling well for the company, so in turn the dealer receives several allocations for that specialty vehicle that has a market valuation. The GSM knows he's not getting anymore, so he's not just going to give it away, and around and around we go.

Hello people, these prices are determined completely by the market and are predicated solely on the old fashioned laws of economics like supply and demand and have little to do with this the consumers' perceived level of greed of dealers and salesmen. Not very many people are making very much money at all, especially with Employee Pricing. On an employee priced vehicle, which make up the majority of the vehicles sold in the last three months, salesmen/managers are making about $150 TOTAL on each car they sell - INDUSTRYWIDE. An average salesmen will sell anywhere from 8-12 cars/month, someone who's doing well will sell fifteen or sixteen, and great salesmen sell somewhere in the twenties. DO THE MATH. It doesn't add up to a whole lot of money. I can't tell you how many salespeople across the country, mind you these are people who have families, bills, and mortgages, are making $1500/month right now. How many of you could get by on that type of money?
With employee pricing the consumer has benefitted greatly because the manufacturer along with the dealer has reduced the cost of the car, but here's the hitch: the manufacturer has conspired with dealer to cut their losses by taking it out of the dealership personell's pocket. Here's the way it works: the dealer reduces the price of the car to several percent under invoice to move lots of units, but the dealer receives a kickback of about $1500 to do so ensuring, and I suspect in most cases actually increasing their profit margins, and in selling the car at that price, they remove any commisionable profit available to the salesmen and managers, relegating EVERY deal to a $100 or $150 dollar deal. Sound familiar? It's called price fixing, people and it is technically illegal. If any of you out there reading this just happen to be antri-trust lawyers and have a little extra time on your hands, PM me. I'm serious.
Anyway, the point is, I've witnessed the whole scenario described above play out several times , with the end result being that the GSM just got fired, and there's a lot of chaos and confusion, as to what deals got grandfathered in and what price what is going for and I'm going to take advantage of that by sneaking as many of these as I can under the radar, out to you folks at MSRP. We've got three 300C SRT-8's shipping next week, we've got two charger SRT-8's in D status, etc, etc. YOU WANTED THEM. YOU GOT THEM. COME GET EM.

GLHS837
09-17-2005, 05:47 AM
Wow lot to digest. For anyone considering rebutting the above info, I advise really having verifiable facts. Statements about how you "just know" would not sway me, I can say that. There are some facts here I'll be checking. But Im not saying anything til I do.

And as I've maintained right along, any SRT vehicle at sticker is a fair deal. On that, the poster and I agree.

HEMIDON
09-17-2005, 08:13 AM
Thanks for all the info BIGBADHEMI.. Good job bashing some of these guys who want to go beat up sales people

When I ordered my ROAD & TRACK car I thought I did pretty good with about 5% off MSRP. One thing some people don't take into consideration is these cars, especially the R/T's, are in such high demand dealers can't keep them on their lot. In the case of the Daytona or the SRT8 there are waiting lists and the dealer will sell the car, basically, to the highest bidder. When I bought my Daytona I was happy to get them to go down to make the deal even dollars. Bottom line on the first offer was $37198 and change out the door. Their first offer was MSRP plus Tax and Tags. The dealer knocked the $1000 ADM off with his first offer because I was there , he knew the story on my ROAD & TRACK and I told him I could wait for the car I ordered. We had also talked that the Daytona was about $3000 more than the car I ordered. The dealer knew I could and would buy the car if the price was right. I reminded the sales guy about the $500 rebate. Knowing the car would go to the next guy on the list I offered a round number deal of $36500. Long story short, I drove the car home with no money, just my good credit rating, for $36600. I went back yesterday and stroked them a check.

Now, for a car that could have been sold for at least $1000 more I thought I got a great deal !!!!!!
Where I bought my Daytona was not the dealer I ordered my ROAD & TRACK from

Keep in mind, I walked into the dealer cold, never been there before and I was on my lunch hour and the first guy they called on their list had'nt shown up yet. I had to go back to work so we actualy talked dollars over the phone.
I drove the car home from work and left my other car on their back lot (did not trade)

Hemibound
09-17-2005, 08:52 AM
As much as i empathize with the frontline worker types, why do I or anyone here need a salesperson? Generally, they contribute nothing to my buying or shopping experience other than handing me keys. Many are less than knowledgeable and most use pressure and persuassion thus giving car salesmen their less than desirable reputation. The whole concept of negotiating a cars price is rediculous when most know what the MRSP and the wholesale price is. Most shoppers in the internet information age dont need a salesman. Pick what you want and head to the checkout is what we want. And that is why internet-no-pressure-Ebay sales work and why it makes the industy nervous.

SRT8Texas
09-17-2005, 09:13 AM
Very true; do we even need a salesperson? That's all well and good that they are trying to feed their families and all, but I don't feel sorry for a grocer with five kids when I go buy from another store who has his cereal for $1 less.

If it takes eight well-written and thoughtful paragraphs to explain how a dealership makes money, I'd wager that's why people are terrified of dealerships and why the poor-schmo that is a salesman gets a bum wrap. It might also explain why people are terribly suspicious of the sales manager. Of course the manufacturers make the most out of the deal, but they're off in some corporate office somewhere pushing paper.

Great article from a dealer/salesman's p.o.v.

Awesome
09-17-2005, 09:35 AM
Thanks BIGBADHEMI... you sound very passionate about what you have posted and rightfully so. I don't think there is anyone in this forum that could challange what you have said. It was a well thought out and lucid explanation. Before I bought my Charger a few weeks ago, I did a lot of research on the level of profitability at the dealer. My daughter is a senior analyst (at firm to remain unnamed) that has/had expert information on dealer group profitability.... I knew that when I went in to negotiate for my car the best I was going to do was rebate and throw-ins that the dealer could control. 1. Oil Change for life 2. Tires for the life of the vehicle 3. Big break on the Chrysler extended warranty...etc etc. I knew that these elements would cost them money but they would make it back and more on the service and parts side at some point in time. I respect this, (some people call it a game). But, a dealer has a right to make a fair return on his investment. The key word here is fair..... I certainly want my dodge dealer to stay in business as I am sure all of you do...