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R/T Beast
04-21-2011, 06:20 PM
I have a quick question, I live the the Great Empire of Virginia, where tinting is not taken lightly. I had my Daytona recently tinted..35% front 50%back..According to the Detail shop, this is legal. Has the Code on the reciept...anyway..Lat week, I was pulled over and the officer wanted to check my tint..(I was looking at his BADA$$ charger..Torred Red..full tint all the way around..couldn't even see him when sitting next to him) anyway, He checks and tells me that I'm not legal..It's 35% all the way around...I showed him the reciept that had the code, and he told me it was dated..New law now..I asked him about his tint..He blew up and wrote me a ticket...Said not to worry about his car, worry about mine.....Can an LEO drive an illegal vehicle and pull you over for the same infraction....Just askin...

LOL, Ralph, the new 35% tint law didn't pass, so we're stuck with 50, 35.

We're currently running 35, 35, 18 on ours, been pulled over once, nothing was ever said about it. I think its all with the officer and what mood he's in.

I don't think that the rear is really an issue, so long as you have side mirrors.

Let us know how it pans out, if you go to court, (from ColdSteels post above) about it being a secondary offense.

~Mark

Kimber1967
04-21-2011, 07:03 PM
I have a quick question, I live the the Great Empire of Virginia, where tinting is not taken lightly...

As I'm also from Virginia, I'll jump in with some specifics.

3rd point: Since Tint is a secondary offense in Virginia (must be pulled over for something else first), the officer obviously had probable cause to pull you over

fyi...I have been pulled twice SOLELY for tinted windows and received a ticket both times...was not speeding...was wearing my seatbelt, no infractions, no moving violations, nothing...TINTED WINDOWS period...(Henrico County, VA)...so it is NOT a secondary offense...:(

Shots
04-21-2011, 08:01 PM
......She starts to explain that she only removed it for a second to take her jacket off. The Troopers response was, "Yes, I saw the whole thing, I have a zero tolerance policy". The fine was $90. Would you have written her up for that?Well for starters that sounds VERY dangerous. If her coat is off enough that she can drive, she should be able to buckle back up. If she is in the process of taking the coat off to where she can't buckle back up, I surely wouldn't be driving. What is she using to steer, her knees, or is it just "ghost riding"? What if something happened where she had to take evasive maneuvers (maybe someone comes into her lane or something). I'm just saying, it doesn't sound like the best argument in the world for her to use.
As for the ticket. I guess it's better than a reckless op for driving while taking off a coat. I'm just sayin'. ;)
Seriously though, no I probably wouldn't write that one.

.....1) Is there a specific speed that an office will stop a pursuit? or is it just ended when the officer feel to be endangering the public and just radios in the vehicle for other police to look for in the direction the car is headed?....Some departments have a set speed, most do not. We are trained to call it off when risk of the pursuit outweighs the risk of letting the person go. So obviously we'll chase a murderer harder than we would a speeder. There are way to many variables to put restrictive, specific limits on it. Same goes with foot pursuits.
.....
2) What is the highest speed you've pulled someone over for and given a ticket for? or the most you've heard of one of your fellow officers pulling people over for?......My fastest was 120 in a 65.
.....
3) ever pulled over someone famous or your funniest/bizarre incident while pulling someone over?.....I've stopped a few professional, and college, sports athletes. No one specific that I can think of right now, but I recognized the names when I stopped them. I'm drawing a blank at the moment for funny incidents. If one pops in my head and I remember I'll put it up for you.
.....
4) I know there is an office from michigan on here as well, i was wondering about the law considering tinted tails. Is it just that you need a red lens showing at all times? I want to tint my tails but not very dark and want to know what makes them illegal exactly.......You're required to have a red light, and red reflector visible from specific distances. Here in Ohio it's 500'. I'll let the MSP officer (7th District) cover your requirements so I don't screw it up. :)
.....
5) Also I know it is illegal to have any tint on the front window of a car in michigan, I also understand it makes sense so an officer does not have a gun pointed at him when the window rolls down. But also michigan summers can get hot and it is alot cheaper for me to tint my windows instead of buying prescription sunglasses (can have it done almost free). I know most michigan cops will give a "fix-it" ticket, but is there any other way I can have my windows tinted? I have no major skin disease that could warrant tints, but do have a bad astigmatism and slight light sensitivity.....Unfortunately no. Either you keep the tint legal, you have a medical reason (not all states will allow that), or you roll the dice with illegal tint.

....I showed him the reciept that had the code, and he told me it was dated..New law now..I asked him about his tint..He blew up and wrote me a ticket...Said not to worry about his car, worry about mine.....Can an LEO drive an illegal vehicle and pull you over for the same infraction....Just askin...ColdSteel pretty much already covered this. Laws have exceptions for many things written into them, most of which pertain to emergency vehicles, medical conditions, and/or private citizens in emergency situations.
Also as he said. While it's not illegal to question his tint it's probably not the best move. I don't cite on attitude, but the questions about the legality of his car should be directed to the department that owns the car, not to him in an attempt to validate yours. You didn't violate a law (other than the tint one of course), but it's probably not how I would have gone about trying to talk my way out of a ticket. ;)

7th District
04-21-2011, 10:46 PM
4) I know there is an office from michigan on here as well, i was wondering about the law considering tinted tails. Is it just that you need a red lens showing at all times? I want to tint my tails but not very dark and want to know what makes them illegal exactly.

5) Also I know it is illegal to have any tint on the front window of a car in michigan, I also understand it makes sense so an officer does not have a gun pointed at him when the window rolls down. But also michigan summers can get hot and it is alot cheaper for me to tint my windows instead of buying prescription sunglasses (can have it done almost free). I know most michigan cops will give a "fix-it" ticket, but is there any other way I can have my windows tinted? I have no major skin disease that could warrant tints, but do have a bad astigmatism and slight light sensitivity.

These links should address your above questions. It also provides links to the MCL statutes that cover these specific topics.

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-73839--,00.html#equipment

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-73839--,00.html#tinted


This site (below) is also a good legal resource for the Michigan Compiled Laws (MCL).

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(hbotxdmlabemwa55evdz3xv4))/mileg.aspx?page=Home

Lastly just an FYI. When using the "MCL Key Word Search" I find that I have the best success when searching for one key word at a time.


.....

ColdSteel
04-22-2011, 03:47 AM
...

3rd point: Since Tint is a secondary offense in Virginia (must be pulled over for something else first), the officer obviously had probable cause to pull you over...

I stand corrected; I checked the Code of VA this morning and although it is in fact 50%/35% for front/rear tint levels on cars, there is no mention of it being a secondary offense.

I had no idea some officers were strict enough to ticket for that offense alone. OUCH

Kimber1967
04-22-2011, 05:32 AM
I stand corrected; I checked the Code of VA this morning and although it is in fact 50%/35% for front/rear tint levels on cars, there is no mention of it being a secondary offense.

I had no idea some officers were strict enough to ticket for that offense alone. OUCH

I know right...and get this ColdSteel...the second time being pulled...I had taken off early from work to go to a funeral...my step-grandmother's funeral...I did not offer that information...he asked where I was headed for whatever reason...small talk I'm guessing...clearly didn't phase him a bit and gave me a ticket...needless to say I was late getting there...:rolleyes2:

Paladin
04-22-2011, 07:31 AM
Here's a situation that my daughter encountered last week with a NYS Trooper. She was sitting at a red light and decided to remove her jacket. When she left the house that morning it was 34 degrees. It warmed up to around 60 by mid-afternoon. So she unhooks her seat belt to remove her jacket. As she's doing so, the light turns green. She starts to move, finishes taking off her jacket and re-buckles her seat belt. The Trooper pulls her over and tells her she was getting a ticket for no seat belt. She starts to explain that she only removed it for a second to take her jacket off. The Troopers response was, "Yes, I saw the whole thing, I have a zero tolerance policy". The fine was $90. Would you have written her up for that?

Ahhh, he got you. It is a technicality but it does apply- she was in motion w/out a seatbelt on...even if only for a second. She would've been better served if she'd finished removing the jacket, re-belted THEN drove on. Of course, if anyone were behind her, she would've gotten a chorus of horns, depending on where you live.

Cold Steel- I used to live in that state of VA...depending on what township you're driving through and the mood of the individual officer, you may get railroaded or you may just get off w/a warning. Greene County...you don't ever want to speed, throw anything out of the window or look as if you're up to something...the deputies and staties that patrol that particular part of the 29 corridor lie in wait and pounce like jungle cats before you know it. I don't hate much, but I do hate driving through VA, especially in the more rural sections along Rte 29. UGH. I swear, if my kids didn't live down there I would NEVER cross that damn state line!

Yea, I got a lot of tickets over the years...most of them were on the up and up but some of them were straight BS. You know they locked me overnight in Orange because in their antediluvian computer system they had me as having my license revoked; it wasn't until the court date that the report from Richmond was viewed and showed that I'd paid the fines AND completed the revocation period nearly A YEAR before.

I tell you how much I hate it down there? lol

Shots
04-23-2011, 04:54 PM
....depending on what township you're driving through and the mood of the individual officer, you may get railroaded or you may just get off w/a warning. Greene County...you don't ever want to speed, throw anything out of the window.....Not to sound like a jerk, but how is that getting railroaded? Those things are illegal, and people are aware that they are. It's not not like they're trumping up charges, or broke a taillight with their nightstick to charge someone with a broken tail light. Speeding and littering are against the law. They did their job and enforced the law. It's easy enough to avoid, just don't speed or litter. If they just sit and stop nothing people complain about how they make so much money and won't stop a single car. No offense man, I'm just saying that they're just doing exactly what they're being paid to do.

SkydiverX
04-26-2011, 02:18 PM
wow man, your pretty awesome. i take back all the times i've said "State D!ck".
however, i did have uh SP officer pull a gun on me out of uniform and I about sh!t my pants, took it to court and lost. with that being said, I am a resident of Ohio. Last week this hot shot parking meter maid gave me a $45, "failure to display" ticket, yeah, I dont have a front license plate. Wondering if was I have in the photo is legal?

i've been wondering if i could...
- get a smaller vinyl license plate made.
- get a hide away kit
.... that's pretty much all i got, man... those two thoughts...
what do you suggest?

AFPVet
04-26-2011, 06:30 PM
Which do you prefer...http://dailypostal.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/dunkin-donuts.jpg or http://www.raleighpublicrelations.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/krispy-kreme-logo.jpg???

:biggrinjester: Couldn't resist!

As having some donut experience as well :) I would definitely go with Krispy Kreme! I did a few years in Air Force law enforcement and a year as a reserve deputy. I didn't mind it at times but it wasn't the job for me.

Shots
04-26-2011, 10:23 PM
wow man, your pretty awesome. i take back all the times i've said "State D!ck".
however, i did have uh SP officer pull a gun on me out of uniform and I about sh!t my pants, took it to court and lost. with that being said, I am a resident of Ohio. Last week this hot shot parking meter maid gave me a $45, "failure to display" ticket, yeah, I dont have a front license plate. Wondering if was I have in the photo is legal?

i've been wondering if i could...
- get a smaller vinyl license plate made.
- get a hide away kit
.... that's pretty much all i got, man... those two thoughts...
what do you suggest?
:lol: Ha ha.
No the pic still isn't legal. I think I see it behind the front bumper positioned behind the gap. It's a nice attempt at displaying it, but unfortunately it's still obscured.

Here's the law on it (trimmed for easier reading)
4503.21 Display of license plates
(A) No person who is the owner or operator of a motor vehicle shall fail to display in plain view on the front and rear of the motor vehicle the distinctive number and registration mark, including any county identification sticker................All license plates shall be securely fastened so as not to swing, and shall not be covered by any material that obstructs their visibility.

So the problems you have with your current location is that the plain view of the plate is still obstructed. Also that you are unable to see the "25" sticker on the bottom corner of it.

I like the idea of the smaller plate, but that could be considered as a fictitious registration if a LEO wanted to be a jerk about it. A hideaway plate is fine as long as its not hidden while on the public roads. I do like that you're trying to keep it legal, but unfortunately Ohio makes us have them on the front of our cars.
As for suggestions. The best option I found was to get custom plates so at least they're remotely cool.... well as cool as a plate can be anyway. :)

1stDodge
04-27-2011, 06:27 AM
wow man, your pretty awesome. i take back all the times i've said "State D!ck".
however, i did have uh SP officer pull a gun on me out of uniform and I about sh!t my pants, took it to court and lost. with that being said, I am a resident of Ohio. Last week this hot shot parking meter maid gave me a $45, "failure to display" ticket, yeah, I dont have a front license plate. Wondering if was I have in the photo is legal?

i've been wondering if i could...
- get a smaller vinyl license plate made.
- get a hide away kit
.... that's pretty much all i got, man... those two thoughts...
what do you suggest?
Skydiver,
here's what you need. http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105925

1stDodge
04-27-2011, 06:34 AM
There is nothing more annoying than that, when I'm on my way to a crash. We don't always respond with lights/siren, but we still want to get there quick. It's inevitable that someone will slow down to 5-10 under the limit when we get behind them. It drives me nuts. JUST GO!!!!! It's legal to drive the speed limit, don't drive like a turd. LOL, and here I thought it was just me that noticed that. :D

Here's a question. Have you purposely driven 5mph slower than the limit on an open hwy? I've seen that several times a year on my home from work. State police car doing 5 under the limit for no apparent reason, and everyone is afraid to pass him. Weather is fine, no accidents, traffic flowing smooth. All it takes is for one person to be "brave" enough to pass, and when he doesn't get stopped then others will realize it can be done.

Gladiator
04-27-2011, 07:40 AM
Yeah that's frustrating. I see that occasionally but the PA turnpike is like a game of chess between the drivers, construction zones and LEOs. Lol

Shots
04-27-2011, 11:48 AM
Here's a question. Have you purposely driven 5mph slower than the limit on an open hwy? I've seen that several times a year on my home from work. State police car doing 5 under the limit for no apparent reason, and everyone is afraid to pass him. Weather is fine, no accidents, traffic flowing smooth. All it takes is for one person to be "brave" enough to pass, and when he doesn't get stopped then others will realize it can be done.Actually I tend to do the opposite. I try to run about 5 MPH over the limit, so I don't create a backlog behind me. Have there been times I'm driving under the limit on a perfectly fine road? Absolutely. I'm not sure if all cruisers have it done, but none of our cars have cruise control. So when we're driving down the freeway we could end up under the posted limit. It's not a "mind game" we're playing with motorists, and it's not some sort of set up. We're just driving, and aren't staring at the speedometer every second. Just drive the limit and pass if we're below it. No big deal.

So I guess to answer the question. No I haven't purposely driven below the limit to mess with people.

hskr
04-27-2011, 11:51 AM
I'll pass cops at 5 over the limit. Usually if they have a problem with it they will let you know as you pass, so then you just slow down a little.

daytona torRed
04-27-2011, 07:08 PM
Here's a question. Have you purposely driven 5mph slower than the limit on an open hwy? I've seen that several times a year on my home from work. State police car doing 5 under the limit for no apparent reason, and everyone is afraid to pass him. Weather is fine, no accidents, traffic flowing smooth. All it takes is for one person to be "brave" enough to pass, and when he doesn't get stopped then others will realize it can be done.

On my way to work one morning(which means do 5 over the limit).It was snowing a little not sticking to the road or the grass,well a county cop was 5 cars ahead doing 5 under the limit)I had no time to follow anyone going 5 under for the next 30 miles) so I passed 2 cars merged in line next passing zone i passed 2 more and the cop.He didnt mind at all.Oddly no one else passed.I wasn't going but 5 over as I passed to tho.

hskr
04-27-2011, 07:15 PM
On my way to work one morning(which means do 5 over the limit).It was snowing a little not sticking to the road or the grass,well a county cop was 5 cars ahead doing 5 under the limit)I had no time to follow anyone going 5 under for the next 30 miles) so I passed 2 cars merged in line next passing zone i passed 2 more and the cop.He didnt mind at all.Oddly no one else passed.I wasn't going but 5 over as I passed to tho.
Damn, you got lucky cause passing more than one vehicle at a time is illegal.

FinGot1
04-27-2011, 08:23 PM
Has it been asked yet..... Is this excuse valid if it is true?...

Officer sorry but I really got to go poo!

Gladiator
04-27-2011, 08:46 PM
Yeah. I gotta p1ss like a racehorse has to get you some sympathy right?

AFPVet
04-27-2011, 09:50 PM
...unfortunately Ohio makes us have them on the front of our cars.
:)

That's why I love Indiana :)

RAWphenom
04-27-2011, 10:19 PM
Damn, you got lucky cause passing more than one vehicle at a time is illegal.

wut?? :confused: like on a two line road that has the hashed lines or like an interstate?? i have literally never heard that in my life.

Has it been asked yet..... Is this excuse valid if it is true?...

Officer sorry but I really got to go poo!

hahaha ^^this. i told my old man i was gonna use this the next time i got pulled over and he goes "that's lying" and i said "but it'll save me 100+ bucks" :D lol

ColdSteel
04-28-2011, 04:29 AM
On a two lane road with a passing zone, you are legally only allowed to cross the line and overtake one car at a time before returning to your lane. If the car in front of you is tailgating the car holding up the line, then you legally aren't free to pass. Does anyone obey that? Probably not, but if you happen to get stopped for it, you would be in the wrong. On a mutli-lane highway, that doesn't apply, just the side(s) you're allowed to pass others on.

Shots
04-28-2011, 11:03 AM
Has it been asked yet..... Is this excuse valid if it is true?...

Officer sorry but I really got to go poo!

Yeah. I gotta p1ss like a racehorse has to get you some sympathy right?

Ha ha. You can try it, but I doubt it will work. It doesn't for me anyway. I've had people try it, and I point out the places they passed that had bathrooms (gas stations, stores, fast food, etc). I don't blame them for not stopping there, just pointing out that having to go doesn't give them a free pass to speed.

Paladin
04-28-2011, 12:47 PM
Not to sound like a jerk, but how is that getting railroaded? Those things are illegal, and people are aware that they are. It's not not like they're trumping up charges, or broke a taillight with their nightstick to charge someone with a broken tail light. Speeding and littering are against the law. They did their job and enforced the law. It's easy enough to avoid, just don't speed or litter. If they just sit and stop nothing people complain about how they make so much money and won't stop a single car. No offense man, I'm just saying that they're just doing exactly what they're being paid to do.

Those are facetious examples to illustrate how strict they are down there. Having to spend a night in jail because their computer systems were not updated IS being railroaded, absolutely no call for that. Having to listen to them brag about how many tickets they handed out to 'people of color to put it politely' IS being railroaded as that's racial profiling which = railroading. Do you disagree?

Shots
04-28-2011, 02:13 PM
Well I don't think listening to them brag about being racist is being railroaded, but I get your point (I assume the point being that they're railroading the African-American people in the area). I was just going off the examples you gave which didn't sound like they were doing anything other than their job. I guess more literal examples would have made it clearer.

Crazy J
04-28-2011, 02:46 PM
Hey Shots, since we're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty what is actually needed to prove us guilty of the offense that dictated a traffic stop? I ask because My wife was pulled over in the middle of this winter for failure to stop at a stop sign. She says it's totally untrue and I believe her for the following reasons: her visibility was impeded due to very large snow banks, she was only ~1 minute away from work and early so in no rush, and she has an impeccable driving record. When the cop told her why he pulled her over (which was in her work parking lot) he gave her the wrong intersection (but got it right on the citation).
She went to fight the ticket but wound up pleading guilty with request to dismiss due to good driving record because ultimately it would have cost more to continue fighting it both financially and in time.
If she had fought it would he have had to show video evidence of her failure to stop in court to prove it happened?

Thanks to you and much respect to those who have chosen to protect and serve.

AFPVet
04-28-2011, 04:34 PM
Just to make everyone aware, not all states are alike. While many may have similar laws, do not make the assumption that all states are this way. Read up on your states' laws :)

— Former LEO

CTown R/T R&T
04-28-2011, 07:49 PM
That's why I love Indiana :)

Yeah, well my personalized plates cost less than $100.00 a year.

What does your registration run? :biggrinjester:

Front plates kinda suck though! I bent mine to conform to the bumper and stuck it on with 3M tape and just take it off when I want to. No holes in the bumper!

H20buryCharger
04-28-2011, 11:18 PM
That's why I love Indiana :)

Same here in Vermont. As for plates it's $38 due at request of custom plates and $103 per year to reregister.

Shots
04-29-2011, 01:36 PM
Hey Shots, since we're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty what is actually needed to prove us guilty of the offense that dictated a traffic stop? I ask because My wife was pulled over in the middle of this winter for failure to stop at a stop sign. She says it's totally untrue and I believe her for the following reasons: her visibility was impeded due to very large snow banks, she was only ~1 minute away from work and early so in no rush, and she has an impeccable driving record. When the cop told her why he pulled her over (which was in her work parking lot) he gave her the wrong intersection (but got it right on the citation).
She went to fight the ticket but wound up pleading guilty with request to dismiss due to good driving record because ultimately it would have cost more to continue fighting it both financially and in time.
If she had fought it would he have had to show video evidence of her failure to stop in court to prove it happened?

Thanks to you and much respect to those who have chosen to protect and serve.That's kind of a tricky one. No video isn't required for a conviction, but it certainly helps. Yes you are innocent until proven guilty, but the officer's observations are generally sufficient for evidence in a traffic stop. Some times other evidence is needed (such as video). The main thing is that video isn't always available, and doesn't always capture everything. For example there is no physical tangible evidence to show the court for speed either. Also until recently video wasn't even in cars. So the court expects the officer to be trustworthy and they will therefor take the officer's observations as evidence. It's the job of the agency to make sure they are hiring, training, and maintaining the employment of trustworthy people. And FWIW, if an officer is ever found to be giving anything other than 100% truth the court will suspect everything he/she says from that day forward and they'll not get a conviction without some tangible evidence. Also if you're found to be lying (which includes exaggerating the facts) by the Patrol you'll be fired. Which is what should be expected, and why I said it's up to the agency to make sure it's people are trustworthy.

Anyway, that was a long post to say, no video wouldn't have been needed. :)

ABSOLUT
04-29-2011, 10:59 PM
I work in a prison...lets have a ask a CO lmao

Gladiator
04-30-2011, 11:41 AM
I think we can go without the cavity search questions. :eek:

Shots
04-30-2011, 01:02 PM
:rofl: Eek!!!

ABSOLUT
05-03-2011, 11:23 AM
I think we can go without the cavity search questions. :eek:


lol...we can't do those :(

Crazy J
05-07-2011, 10:48 AM
Another question: I always thought town police had no authority on pull people over on state/interstate highways. Is this true?
I've seen people pulled over on the highway by town police but usually not far from entrance ramps. That made me wonder if people pulled on to the highway when seeing a cop behind them thinking they couldn't be pulled over.

Shots
05-07-2011, 01:17 PM
Another question: I always thought town police had no authority on pull people over on state/interstate highways. Is this true?
I've seen people pulled over on the highway by town police but usually not far from entrance ramps. That made me wonder if people pulled on to the highway when seeing a cop behind them thinking they couldn't be pulled over.
Yeah, people do that all the time. They'll drive across the county line or outside the city limits to avoid the local PD, but it doesn't work. If the violation occurred in their area they can follow you out of it. I always like the people who quickly pull into a parking lot, or driveway to try to avoid me, like they're kids playing tag and that is "safe". <--- it's not.

Also to elaborate on the city PD part of the question. Yes they can patrol the interstate, just like we can patrol within the city. If the interstate passes through their city it is within their jurisdiction, and they can work it just like they can the rest of the city (it's no different than the city being within the state so we can work there). The reason you don't see it to often is because the city PD is usually busy with other stuff so they don't spend time on interstate traffic. Another, and probably more important, reason is because the city tax payers want the people they are paying to patrol the city not the interstate.

daytona torRed
05-07-2011, 01:40 PM
I have a couple questions.Is the highway patrol's jurisdiction only highways or any road.
And if they seen say a burglery in process can they arrest or do they have to call in the local police.

Shots
05-08-2011, 01:13 PM
We have jurisdiction anywhere in the state. A "highway" is any road open for public use. People commonly confuse the term with "freeway" or interstate.

As for areas off road. We patrol all state lands and buildings (such as Schools, College Campuses, Governor's office, parks, etc). We are also sent to any train, or airplane crashes.
If we see a crime happening on private property we have full authority to take action on it. We will stop the crime, call the local department and turn it over to them when they arrive. This is not so much a jurisdictional issue, as it is that we don't want to step on the toes of the local PD, and it's a pile of paperwork that we don't need to do. We will also respond to anything on private property if the local department requests we handle it, or if they request that we assist them there.

AFPVet
05-08-2011, 02:34 PM
Another question: I always thought town police had no authority on pull people over on state/interstate highways. Is this true?
I've seen people pulled over on the highway by town police but usually not far from entrance ramps. That made me wonder if people pulled on to the highway when seeing a cop behind them thinking they couldn't be pulled over.

In Indiana, all Indiana law enforcement officers have statewide powers. That said, they all have their own 'typical' jurisdictions. For instance, on occasion, our county department would be out of service so the city PD would pull county detail or vice versa... I know weird... but happens.

Another interesting thing is that if a 'fresh pursuit' occurs and crosses state lines, officers can continue pursuit.

FinGot1
05-09-2011, 11:02 AM
My buddy was pulled over for Tinted windows in cleveland ohio. The officer gave him a 196 dollar ticket. It was stock toyota camry with windows tinted from the dealer down to 24% with the meter. He has already taken the tint off. However it does not seem to be a fix it ticket. Should he call the officer, the deparment or go down to the department to show them it is gone. Or should he just go to court and show the judge he took it off. Thanks!

Shots
05-09-2011, 12:58 PM
If the price of the fine is there, it's definitely not a fix it ticket. If they've already removed the tint, they can show proof to the judge and request that the fine be reduced, or charge dropped. The judge may or may not reduce it, but most will because you have taken care of the problem. Unfortunately dealerships aren't required to remove illegal tint before selling a car/truck (I'd guess the car was bought used from a dealer). It happens all the time, and people think they're ok because they bought it that way. Your friend has already removed the tint, so that should show the judge that they're trying to do the right thing. With luck the judge will acknowledge that and give a minimal fine with court costs. That is assuming of course they don't have a long record of tint tickets that shows the judge it's just an attempt to reduce the fine. ;)

maans88
05-09-2011, 01:00 PM
Let's say you pull over a speeding charger then you talk to the driver and find out he's one of us (forum member) would you give him a get out of jail free card?

Shots
05-09-2011, 01:30 PM
It depends on the speed, but I've given warnings for less than that.... so possibly yes.

Chargeit!
05-09-2011, 08:01 PM
Are there any cops here from MD? I dont have a question... rather a very small favor to ask.

SkydiverX
05-20-2011, 08:34 PM
hey Shots, I have another question....

Are tinted headlights in Ohio legal?

FinGot1
05-21-2011, 08:48 AM
Shots how will I know its you if I get pulled over? Can you say MEOW a few times when you pull over a charger ? (supertroopers).

Gladiator
05-21-2011, 09:23 AM
It'd be better if you just meowed at any officer that pulled you over. :eek:

Shots
05-21-2011, 12:31 PM
hey Shots, I have another question....

Are tinted headlights in Ohio legal?
Yes if they aren't too dark.
They are required to "....provide adequate and reliable illumination and shall conform to the appropriate specification set forth in the SA.E. recommended practices or S.A.E. standards for electric headlamps for motor vehicles....". In other words, as long as they are basically tinted to look better during the day, but don't affect night time performance your good.

Shots how will I know its you if I get pulled over? Can you say MEOW a few times when you pull over a charger ? (supertroopers).:lol3005: LMAO!!!! We joke about doing that all the time, but I haven't done it yet. I'm sure someone has.
No real good way to know who is who out there. I'm told we all look the same (even by my family :disappointed:). The best way would be to see the next quote...
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It'd be better if you just meowed at any officer that pulled you over. :eek:If someone meows at me I'll ask if they're from here. :)

sharp charge
05-24-2011, 07:17 PM
What if I just say CHICKEN FU$#ER! lol

Shots
05-24-2011, 07:37 PM
LOL. That would certainly let me know it was you, as I really doubt anyone else would say that. :lol3005:

Paladin
05-25-2011, 08:27 AM
A better question would be- what stretch of highway do you patrol, Shots, so we'll know then there's a better chance of not getting a ticket? lol

Shots
05-25-2011, 09:24 AM
There's no "one" stretch I cover. I will however mostly be found in Columbiana, Geagua, Mahoning, Portage, Stark, Summit or Trumbull counties. Basically somewhere in the Northeast Ohio area (aka District 4, and a few neighboring areas). I do occasionally run across I76 to I71 for training in Columbus so I've stopped with cars along that route, but that's not to often.

sharp charge
05-25-2011, 09:33 PM
So you guys don't work out of a specific office? Be careful out there, the weather's at it again in your op area. I imagine you guys will be out in force this weekend, I'll keep an eye out for ya on 77. I'll be southbound to WV on Friday morning and back northbound on Monday. Stay safe. meow...

Gladiator
05-25-2011, 10:36 PM
Stay safe meow. Lol The whole post was serious and then meow. :D

Shots
05-26-2011, 11:30 AM
Meow, I'd like to say thanks.
Yes, we'll be out in heavy numbers this weekend. I'll be writing a billion warnings (I'm not out to ruin anyone's weekend), but I am out there to remove as many drunks as I can. Well that and to take as much drugs off the streets as I can too. So I guess I'll be ruining their weekends but hey if I arrest them, they did it to themselves. I didn't make them drink and drive, or transport drugs.
LOL. I love when I've arrested someone and they ask "how do you sleep at night?". I respond "I don't sleep at night, that's how I found you. I sleep during the day, and I sleep great." :lol3005:







MEOW!

FLEX
05-26-2011, 11:39 AM
Sorry if this has been asked before, but since I am in Canada I never read this thread.

However last weekend I was travelling through Michigan and Indiana, mostly on I-69.

Speed limit through southern Michigan was 70, I set cruise at 79. My thought process what that less than 10 mph over wouldn't get me stopped.

I was wrong. :slap:

Got stopped, but no ticket. Although he said he had to go back to the truck to "write it out".

So...

1) How much over the limit will get you stopped?

2) Is giving out warnings for speeding usual? (it's not up here. you will almost always get the ticket)

3) What is to "write up" if there is no ticket issued?

Thanks in advance,

-=FLEX=-

Shots
05-26-2011, 11:51 AM
Sorry if this has been asked before, but since I am in Canada I never read this thread.

However last weekend I was travelling through Michigan and Indiana, mostly on I-69.

Speed limit through southern Michigan was 70, I set cruise at 79. My thought process what that less than 10 mph over wouldn't get me stopped.

I was wrong. :slap:

Got stopped, but no ticket. Although he said he had to go back to the truck to "write it out".

So...

1) How much over the limit will get you stopped?

2) Is giving out warnings for speeding usual? (it's not up here. you will almost always get the ticket)

3) What is to "write up" if there is no ticket issued?

Thanks in advance,

-=FLEX=-
1) It depends on the officer. For me it depends on where they are (school zone, residential, business, rural, interstate, etc), what time of day/night, weather, and all that sort of thing. 10 is going to get you stopped quite a bit, even if only to write a warning. 5 is a more common cushion although even that isn't always a given. So unfortunately I can't really give you a good range.

2) I give warnings for speed all the time. When I was on days I didn't so much, but on nights I do just to contact the driver to see if they're drunk or anything else.

3) Not all agencies do it, but a lot (us included) actually write a warning out. It gets entered into our computer and we can track it if we want to. If I start seeing the same car warned multiple times, they stop getting warnings, because it's obviously not working.

FLEX
05-27-2011, 12:45 PM
1) 2) 3)

Thanks! :)

Shots
05-27-2011, 03:05 PM
No problem.

Gladiator
05-30-2011, 01:36 PM
Shots your other thread reminded me that I had this question; why the switch to OVI from DUI or DWI?

Shots
05-31-2011, 02:40 PM
DWI = Driving While Intoxicated. That basically was worded for alcohol only and was old law.

DUI = Driving Under the Influence. That covered alcohol and drugs, but the wording was such that you almost had to know what they were influenced by.

OVI = Operating a Vehicle Impaired. Like DUI it covers alcohol and drugs, but the wording has been changed to make it so impairment is not restricted to knowing what they are impaired by. You can be charged if you are determined to be impaired by something, without the LEO knowing what specific drug has caused the impairment. This was done to keep up with the ever changing drug market. People are coming up with new stuff to abuse every day. There is a hallucinogen now known as "bath salts". Currently the active ingredients are not specific enough to write laws on restricting a per se limit, but it causes impairment so that's enough to charge OVI. Another good example would be "huffing", or "dusting". The person inhales aerosol duster, and it causes impairment. It is nearly impossible to test for this because the effects are so short lived, and there is no real build up in your system. However the impairment can be detected and charged.
Also to note, that OVI states "Operating" not "Driving" like the previous wordings. You can be charged on a bicycle, boat, horse, or any other vehicle. It doesn't have to be a car or truck anymore.

So long reply made short. The wording has just changed over time to keep up with technology, and trends.

Shots
05-31-2011, 02:52 PM
Per the Ohio Revised Code
To "operate" is to cause, or have caused, the movement of a vehicle.
A "vehicle" is every device by which a person or property may be transported.
"Impaired" is a diminished capacity.

OVI can be charged on anyone, operating a vehicle, anywhere in Ohio.

Gladiator
05-31-2011, 04:21 PM
Thanks. That makes a lot of sense.

Gladiator
05-31-2011, 04:24 PM
Doesn't that lead to a lot of interpretation though? What if you pull over someone who's just nuts and starts yelling at you? Would you just say the guy is impaired and on something due to him being irrational?

RTinWA
05-31-2011, 05:05 PM
Doesn't that lead to a lot of interpretation though? What if you pull over someone who's just nuts and starts yelling at you? Would you just say the guy is impaired and on something due to him being irrational?


You mean like this? (NSFW) I watch Cops and Campus PD all the time and have HUGE respect for what LEOs have to put up with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHZMoPV1rog

Shots
05-31-2011, 11:36 PM
Doesn't that lead to a lot of interpretation though? What if you pull over someone who's just nuts and starts yelling at you? Would you just say the guy is impaired and on something due to him being irrational?No not really, because the diminished capacity needs to have been caused by something, not just because they're wacko. We have clues for drug use that would be articulated (your eyes tell us A LOT, in addition to other clues). We're just not required to know exactly what drug is causing it when we charge them. Plus we can't always get a sample to send to the lab even if we have an idea of what drug they may be on.
If a person has just gone off their rocker, we can require that they be retested by the BMV to determine if they are still safe to drive (a family member could also request this if they are concerned about an elderly or mentally handicapped parent, sibling, or child who once was a valid driver).

Also another reason to word the law for impairment. A lot of people are on prescription medication that greatly affects their ability to operate a vehicle. If you are prescribed morphine, fentanyl, or some other high level narcotic for pain, you can (and will) be impaired by it and should not be driving. Many medications advise you against driving or operating machinery. A lawyer may be able to get a charge dismissed for a per se limit if the driver has a prescription, but an impaired person is still impaired regardless if they are legally taking the drug or not. The drug has no idea if the person is allowed to have it or not. It's no safer for a drug addict with "X" grams of a substance in their system to drive than it is for a person with a prescription at the same level.

Shots
05-31-2011, 11:50 PM
You mean like this? (NSFW) I watch Cops and Campus PD all the time and have HUGE respect for what LEOs have to put up with.

[Xl]
Yeah, that guy had a full on melt down, but the trooper didn't help the situation at all. He kinda instigated the response with his body language, and tone of voice. That said, I think the guy would have probably snapped anyway, just maybe not quite so bad.
I have people tell me all the time "I'm gonna lose my job over this", and "I can't afford this, why don't you go arrest some real criminals", and on and on.

On a side note. I know I shouldn't critique another officers stop, but that was some bad officer safety tactics. For one he never once checked traffic, despite standing in the traffic lane the whole time. More importantly he let that guy get WAY to close when he exited the car to pick up the papers he threw down. Just because you're bigger than him, and it was an old man doesn't mean he won't try something. Heck, maybe the old wacko had a knife in his pocket. He was clearly agitated enough to think about sticking it in the trooper's gut when he got out if he had one.

Coffee With Scream
06-01-2011, 12:32 AM
when i was younger there used to be cone racing in the one mall parking lot on sundays. this stopped happening when the mall began to be open on sundays. i was wondering why the police would not stop that? mind you it was probably 1988.
and if one were to find a abbandoned lot and start this up again what would the police action be. i assume they would break it up. it would be racing a timer and not other cars style. not that it really matters right?

ColdSteel
06-01-2011, 04:18 AM
I would imagine that they couldn't do anything. The parking lot is private property and unless they were asked to patrol or called during this event, the police likely could not do anything.

If you look closely at motor vehicle laws, you will see that they refer to public highways. Only those roadways that are owned/maintained by a city/county or state government fall into the public highways/roadways designation.

Private roads and parking lots don't fit. On the other hand if there is something reckless going on or OVI/DUI/DWI, an officer likely can step in since those statutes don't usually have a requirement of on a 'public highway'. The officer just has to be able to see it from where he is and can then step in.

An adage from an old instructor of mine: "Right to be, right to see"; if you can be seen on private property from nearby public property then you have no expectation of privacy and anything seen can be used against you.

Shots
06-01-2011, 12:34 PM
Using the mall example given. Technically you would be "trespassing". A private parking lot is available for the public to park so they can shop at the mall. If the mall is closed you have no reason to be on their property, and more importantly are not using the lot as they have authorized (i.e. parking so you can shop).
Going beyond that. As ColdSteel noted, most (but not all) state laws refer to public roadways. Those particular laws are the ones that I enforce and they do primarily focus on public roads and criminal acts. However county codes, and more specifically city ordinances can (and often do) restrict things like this, so tread lightly.
Also as ColdSteel stated OVI is enforceable ANYWHERE in Ohio. If people are consuming alcohol or drugs they're fair game anywhere. You can get an OVI, while riding your dirtbike on your own property, so if I saw this activity in a parking lot I could certainly come up in there and take action.


PS. You are correct that time trials are no different (legally speaking) than side by side racing.

PSS. You also asked in the post why it wouldn't be stopped in the past. If it's an authorized event, all codes/laws have been met, and it's done safely there's no reason to break it up. We're not out to be kill joys, we're just out to keep people safe. Heck last Independence Day the local car dealership set up a burn out contest on their lot (there is an annual street fair in front of their lot). They got all the appropriate permits for noise ordinances and stuff, and let the public have at it. It was safely done, controlled in one area, one car at a time with fire equipment on hand. Things like this can be done, you've just got to go through the appropriate channels.

Coffee With Scream
06-02-2011, 06:50 AM
thank you for the detailed response. it has been very helpful in how to direct the path the right and safe way and there is no other way then that when racing is involved.

Shots
06-02-2011, 11:22 AM
No problem. I think it's very cool of businesses that allow events like that. I think its even cooler when drivers are responsible, and intelligent enough to seek out a controlled/regulated events like that to safely have some fun.

sharp charge
06-09-2011, 07:40 PM
Qualcom Stadium in San Diego routinely has street racing courses and 1/8 mile races on their lot when the Chargers aren't playing. They allow it and make some money off the otherwise unused lot.

Gladiator
06-09-2011, 09:28 PM
So what is your favorite cop show/movie?

Shots
06-11-2011, 04:40 AM
Movie: Super Troopers. Meow that is just plain funny.
TV show: K9 Cops (Animal planet 10PM).

Coffee With Scream
06-11-2011, 04:54 AM
super troopers is a great movie meow although i love it , i thinks ill have to go with public enemies. meow im not reall big on cop shows though.............meow.

sharp charge
06-11-2011, 08:39 AM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4862ipRUD9sBt1_5Hk30BjCQm8ilcz j7yuUDHO_qhbMVzz126

Gladiator
06-11-2011, 08:58 AM
Good choices.

RAWphenom
06-11-2011, 11:03 AM
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/raw_legacy/carramrod.jpg

here's another question, shots. do you have to be in plain sight to pull somebody over or can you be hiding, say behind a billboard like you see on movies?

Shots
06-11-2011, 01:15 PM
Legally, we could hide. We could sit back in a bunch of trees with our lights off, or behind a billboard, but really what's the point. I park on a straight flat stretch of road, and get people doing illegal stuff all night long. There's really no need to hide. The patrol has policy against us hiding, but it's perfectly legal if we wanted to.

So the short answer. Yes we could hide like you see in the movies.

Ron380
06-11-2011, 07:46 PM
The PA State Troopers are the master-adepts at hiding along the Turnpike! They even had the PA DOT clear spaces in the hillsides for them to park in! :ninja:

They've also been known to station officers with radar/laser/vascar systems in DOT trucks parked on the sides of the 'Pike, and have the marked cruisers hide down the road.

Shots
06-12-2011, 05:09 PM
Yup, they do that along I80 too. I've seen them more than once on my way out to visit the in-laws. I see no problem with it, I just don't have a need to do it. We use the plane all the time, which IMHO is no different than shooting laser from an overpass, or among the trees.

Take Ohio's strict reputation, and pair it with Pennsylvania's ninja skills, and people would drive right all the time.
:ninja: + :armed: = :worried:

Ron380
06-12-2011, 06:26 PM
I have enough stress in my life, I don't need more while driving. I set my cruise for 72 and sit back and relax. :)

Actually, driving is usually relaxing for me. Don't use the cell phone while driving, either. ;)

sharp charge
06-12-2011, 10:46 PM
I work OSP's plane's all the time, they're pretty good about staying away from our other traffic. For some reason though, they seem to be above my neighborhood all too often.... lol, eh, at least it isn't the FBI's plane.

Also in Ohio, watch for the troopers running speed down on ramps and rest area ramps. Ya can't see them till you pass on the highway and look in the mirror. ;)

ZangetsuCharger
06-13-2011, 02:43 PM
What would happen if you tried to scan someone with a laser jammer? Would you still pull them over or let them go?

Ron380
06-13-2011, 03:47 PM
Okay, new question:

What are the reg's regarding enforcement of traffic signs in parking lots? For example, the local grocery store that has STOP signs at the crosswalks from the parking lot to the front doors? The plaza is private property, and the signs are in temporary bases and are moveable. This question also applies to the Fire Lane Parking Only areas.

Does the plaza owner have to ask for or grant permission to the LEO's to enforce these? I always obey them, but many others don't. :confused:

Thanks!

Shots
06-13-2011, 06:00 PM
I have enough stress in my life, I don't need more while driving. I set my cruise for 72 and sit back and relax. :)....Um.... You're aware that's still 7 over the limit, and some guys will still stop you for that right? ;)

What would happen if you tried to scan someone with a laser jammer? Would you still pull them over or let them go?A laser jammer is actually illegal, and our unit tells us if it's been jammed. So yeah, that could get you stopped too.

Okay, new question:

What are the reg's regarding enforcement of traffic signs in parking lots? For example, the local grocery store that has STOP signs at the crosswalks from the parking lot to the front doors? The plaza is private property, and the signs are in temporary bases and are moveable. This question also applies to the Fire Lane Parking Only areas.

Does the plaza owner have to ask for or grant permission to the LEO's to enforce these? I always obey them, but many others don't. :confused:

Thanks!Great question. For the most part those aren't really enforceable signs. While yes the lot is private property it is open for public use, so it is an enforceable area. However. There are guidelines governing the placement of stop signs, and most areas like that do not fall within the requirements for those signs. That said. Some areas DO meet the requirements (usually apartment complexes) so you could potentially be stopped for one.
Fire lanes are enforceable. That is a different set of governing rules than signage, and could get you fined and/or towed.

Ron380
06-13-2011, 06:38 PM
Well, knock on wood, I've never been pulled over for 70-72 mph (in a 65 zone). :grin: The few times I have been pulled over, were well-deserved. ;)

I kind of figured the parking lot signs were in sort of a "grey area". tanx.

Rommey
06-13-2011, 07:38 PM
Two more questions:

1. Here in Maryland they recently passed a law stating that you must change lanes or slow down when approaching an emergency vehicle stopped along the highway. I don't have a problem, but it seems to be a subjective interpretation as to what constitutes "slowing down". What's your thoughts on this and how would you interpret "slowing down".
2. I'm pretty sure Ohio has a law that states the left lane of the highway is for passing only. How often is that enforced?

RTinWA
06-13-2011, 09:14 PM
Two more questions:

1. Here in Maryland they recently passed a law stating that you must change lanes or slow down when approaching an emergency vehicle stopped along the highway. I don't have a problem, but it seems to be a subjective interpretation as to what constitutes "slowing down". What's your thoughts on this and how would you interpret "slowing down".
2. I'm pretty sure Ohio has a law that states the left lane of the highway is for passing only. How often is that enforced?


This is a great question, we have the same law here in WA and I always wonder about the "slow down" rule. Slow to 20, 40?

ColdSteel
06-14-2011, 03:12 AM
Here is an excerpt from the VA law: "proceed with caution and, if reasonable, with due regard for safety and traffic conditions, yield the right-of-way by making a lane change into a lane not adjacent to the stationary vehicle or (ii) if changing lanes would be unreasonable or unsafe, proceed with due caution and maintain a safe speed for highway conditions."

Although not specific, one would assume that 'safe speed' means AT OR BELOW the speed limit. Since most people travel above the speed limit, if you didn't at least drop to the limit, the officers would likely have a good case against you.

VA includes all law enforcement, fire, EMS, as well as DOT crews and even tow trucks as long as they display a permitted flashing light.

They most definitely enforce this also; let the men and women work safely.

Shots
06-14-2011, 04:08 PM
.....Here in Maryland they recently passed a law stating that you must change lanes or slow down when approaching an emergency vehicle stopped along the highway. I don't have a problem, but it seems to be a subjective interpretation as to what constitutes "slowing down". What's your thoughts on this and how would you interpret "slowing down".
.......Although not specific, one would assume that 'safe speed' means AT OR BELOW the speed limit. Since most people travel above the speed limit, if you didn't at least drop to the limit, the officers would likely have a good case against you.

VA includes all law enforcement, fire, EMS, as well as DOT crews and even tow trucks as long as they display a permitted flashing light.

They most definitely enforce this also; let the men and women work safely.The speed is left unspecified on purpose. What is safe one day may not be the next, depending on the road, weather, location of stop, etc. As ColdSteel said, anything ABOVE the posted limit is certainly going to be considered too fast. Generally we're looking for below the limit enough that someone who hasn't been trained to estimate a speed could tell that you slowed down. Basically slow down enough that you have time to react if need be.
Also as ColdSteel said we definitely do enforce it. In fact somebody got out of a speeding ticket 2 nights ago for this very thing. Here's a little story for you....

I had stopped a car on the interstate for going 17 over the limit (82 in a 65). As I exit my car I always check my mirror. I saw a car coming in the right lane about a 1/2 mile back, so I get out to make my approach, but first pause behind my car to keep an eye on the approaching car (now within 1/4 mile or so). Keep in mind this is the middle of the night, and there are no other cars anywhere near the approaching car, so they've got a wide open lane ahead of them, behind them, and BESIDE them. The car then goes hauling @$$ past my car while still in the right lane. I immediately got back in my car, gave the air horn a chirp as I left the initial car and waved, then chased the passing car down. His excuse for not moving over or slowing down...... "I didn't know that was a law".:slap: Hey how about some courtesy then! Oh by the way not knowing it's a law (even though it has been since 2004) isn't a valid excuse, and here's your ticket. Freaking S.O.B. :mad:
Not much angers me out there, but stuff like that is one of them. What if I had been in a resisting at the moment he passed, and we ended up with our legs (or worse, our heads) partially in the traffic lane as he buzzed my car? Or what if the driver I had stopped had decided to get out of his car (they some times do, and they rarely check traffic before doing so)? This guy could easily have killed someone, all for what? Because it takes to much energy to turn his wheel a hair to the left and change lanes?!?! I think in addition to a fine for this violation we should have the people line up on the side of the interstate, and we'll go clipping past at 65+ within inches of them like they did to us. They'll realize real quick just how unnerving it is to have 4,000 lbs pass at that speed.
Ok, rant over. :beerchug:
PS. This law also applies to 2 lane roads. Obviously if it's not safe to move over as you pass (which a lot of times its not when on a two lane road) you need to slow down. 99% of people do both, slow down and move over, without thinking about it on 2 lane. We generally get buzzed on the interstate only.

.....2. I'm pretty sure Ohio has a law that states the left lane of the highway is for passing only. How often is that enforced? Nope, you can drive in the left lane as long as you're not impeding the traffic behind you. The law states ".....a vehicle or trackless trolley shall be driven upon the right half of the roadway, except as follows ........ When driving upon a roadway designated and posted with signs for one-way traffic......". There are other exceptions, but I assume you're talking about divided highway type situations. In fact when off duty, I drive in the left lane at night to give myself that extra half second to react to a deer entering the roadway. A common occurrence in Ohio. :) I do move over to the right when faster traffic is approaching though.

Binns
06-14-2011, 04:41 PM
It 10mph under or move over in texas

1stDodge
06-14-2011, 04:45 PM
Two more questions:

1. Here in Maryland they recently passed a law stating that you must change lanes or slow down when approaching an emergency vehicle stopped along the highway. I don't have a problem, but it seems to be a subjective interpretation as to what constitutes "slowing down". What's your thoughts on this and how would you interpret "slowing down".
2. I'm pretty sure Ohio has a law that states the left lane of the highway is for passing only. How often is that enforced?

We've had a law like that here in Oklahoma for a while now. So far, everyone I've seen in my travels has either slowed way down or moved over if the left lane is open.

Gladiator
06-14-2011, 05:10 PM
I bet the guy that got out of the ticket was loving that other guy.

Shots
06-14-2011, 05:40 PM
:lol3005: I was thinking the same thing as I was giving him the wave to say "you're free to go".

Gladiator
06-14-2011, 05:44 PM
Last year I got busted doing about 75 in a 65 by an officer using before mentioned PA turnpike ninja tactics. He kicked his lights on and I slowed down to pull over. Instead of getting behind me he pulled along side of me, waved and sped off. I was pretty grateful.

RAWphenom
06-14-2011, 07:09 PM
Not much angers me out there, but stuff like that is one of them.

I'm not a cop, but this is something that pisses me off like no other when I'm driving. Or not getting over for anybody that is stopped on the side of the road. Generally, anytime I see a car on the shoulder, I'll get over for them even if there's nobody in the car. Granted, I'm not usually in the left lane to begin with :biggrinjester::bigthumb: hahaha

sharp charge
06-14-2011, 09:51 PM
"I didn't know that was a law".:slap: Hey how about some courtesy then! Oh by the way not knowing it's a law (even though it has been since 2004) isn't a valid excuse, and here's your ticket. Freaking S.O.B. :mad:

You should have pointed out the freaking highway signs that are posted all over telling stupid drivers about the law.

http://cityofmentor.com/wp-content/uploads/Police-Move-Over-150x112.jpg

They're not new.... Stay safe. Meow.:beerchug:

Shots
06-15-2011, 12:05 AM
....Generally, anytime I see a car on the shoulder, I'll get over for them even if there's nobody in the car......Me too. Its just common courtesy to give people a little breathing room. The law only applies to specific vehicles, but why not do it for all of them.

You should have pointed out the freaking highway signs that are posted all over telling stupid drivers about the law.

http://cityofmentor.com/wp-content/uploads/Police-Move-Over-150x112.jpg

They're not new.... Stay safe. Meow.:beerchug:
:rofl: Ha ha, I actually laughed out loud at that last line. And yes, it's not like we don't have a million signs saying move over or slow down, and oh yeah by they way wear your seat belt or you'll get a ticket. One thing we're not in Ohio is subtle. We'll be completely obnoxious about what laws we intend to enforce. I'm sure you've heard/seen the ton of "Click it, or ticket" and "Over the limit, Under arrest" adds.

09ChargerRT
06-15-2011, 12:18 AM
When I worked for the PD in Georgia and the move over law passed it was a $500 fine and 3 points on the license. I personally like the law, I didn't like people driving 70mph 1 foot away from me.

str8 up hemi
06-15-2011, 03:16 AM
If a LEO is sitting in the ditch out of site on the freeway with all of his lights off and I pass by doing over the speed limit and he pulls me over, is that entrapment?

If a LEO asked to search my car and I refuse, would you be MORE likely to give me a ticket because I refused?

I know in the state of KY it is illegal for cars to go from the left lane to the right in front of a tractor trailer and not leave a reasonable amount of space, however KY DOT does not enforce it, I've seen this happen and the Tractor Trailer got pulled for following to closely...does the Ohio DOT profile tractor trailers more than four wheeler's because the resulting fines are higher (more $$ for the state)?

For what reason does Ohio DOT find it reasonable to pull a driver out of the sleeper birth and DOT them while parked and sleeping in a rest stop? (it happen to me)

Is it illegal for truck drivers with concealed carry permits to carry a weapon? (this has always been a huge debate in the trucking world, yet no one can cite where it says in the regulations that weapons are illegal, only that companies can prohibit them)

If I am in a personal owned vehicle and have a weapon in the car (in a holster), you mentioned that we should inform you right away, my question is should be leave the weapon concealed or would you prefer to see it lets say up on the center dash where you can clearly see it?

Sorry so many questions, these are just things Ive wondered and never had a chance to ask...

RAWphenom
06-15-2011, 11:23 AM
Off topic question: SRT8 up hemi, whereabouts do you live in KY? I'm in Lexington 9 months of the year for school and then my hometown is Corbin.

Paladin
06-15-2011, 12:21 PM
:lol3005: I was thinking the same thing as I was giving him the wave to say "you're free to go".

Ha! I remember a long time ago, when I'd only had my license a year or two, me and this woman were side by side on the highway, I was actually looking to pass her but- well, we were beside one another, w/her about a quarter car length ahead...went round the bend and there was a trooper on a bike with the radar gun in his hand. He pulled us both over (or so I thought) but when he pulled in, he waved me on and went for the woman.

The reason why I remember this is because I was new in town, from NY and this was as dirty south as I'd ever gotten, I'm Black, the woman was White, the cop was White and he just went for her.

That was the first instance of where I'd been told one thing about the cops in that town and learned otherwise. That isn't to say there aren't a-hole cops, they're in every town but I'd been told time and again that 'The Man' was going to get me simply because I was Black.

I laugh at that notion nowadays but when you're a kid and grown adults are telling this to you- it gives you pause. Funny thing is, my father (or mother) never said such to me but when you get below the Mason-Dixon, I guess some folks are still stuck in the olden days.

str8 up hemi
06-15-2011, 03:17 PM
Off topic question: SRT8 up hemi, whereabouts do you live in KY? I'm in Lexington 9 months of the year for school and then my hometown is Corbin.
I live in Somerset right between both of your homes...I drive though Lexington everyday though (I work in Louisville)

Shots
06-15-2011, 08:04 PM
If a LEO is sitting in the ditch out of site on the freeway with all of his lights off and I pass by doing over the speed limit and he pulls me over, is that entrapment?....... No. People greatly misunderstand what entrapment is. Entrapment would be if you were tricked into doing something illegal then charged with it. For example if I was in civilian clothes, sought out a random person and offered to sell them a cell phone at a great price. They buy it, then I turn around and charge them with receiving stolen goods. I would have tricked them into doing something that they hadn't set out to do. Doing something on your own accord (like speeding) is not entrapment regardless of the ninja skills of the charging officer. :ninja:
.......If a LEO asked to search my car and I refuse, would you be MORE likely to give me a ticket because I refused?......I wouldn't, although that is more of a LEO to LEO kind of question. I don't base my decision to cite on a person's actions. I know before I make contact if they're getting a ticket. Although, I can be swayed to give a warning when I intended to give a ticket (I don't do it the other way around).
.......I know in the state of KY it is illegal for cars to go from the left lane to the right in front of a tractor trailer and not leave a reasonable amount of space, however KY DOT does not enforce it, I've seen this happen and the Tractor Trailer got pulled for following to closely...does the Ohio DOT profile tractor trailers more than four wheeler's because the resulting fines are higher (more $$ for the state)?No. The only reason a truck driver would be charged for something a non-truck driver would be is because they are professional drivers, and should have a higher expectation to know the law and obey it. In addition to that (and more importantly), they are also handling 80,000 instead of the average 3,000 - 5,000 of a car. And FWIW I try to cut truck drivers a break when I can, because the CDL is their livelihood. If they lose that over a stupid violation that I wouldn't have written a normal car, then they're unemployed. Seems a bit unfair to me.
Also, FWIW in your example above, I would cite the car for an improper lane change. I hate when people cut trucks off. It's not like they can stop 80K lbs on a dime.
.......For what reason does Ohio DOT find it reasonable to pull a driver out of the sleeper birth and DOT them while parked and sleeping in a rest stop? (it happen to me).......I wouldn't do it, but maybe they saw something (a slider pin out, chords on a tire showing, or other safety issues) that grabbed their attention while they were checking the rest area.
.......Is it illegal for truck drivers with concealed carry permits to carry a weapon? (this has always been a huge debate in the trucking world, yet no one can cite where it says in the regulations that weapons are illegal, only that companies can prohibit them).......No. DOT, nor Ohio law prohibit it, provided you have a valid CCW in your possession, and you are NOT crossing state lines. The biggest issue a CMV will have with a CCW is if they are interstate carriers. You would only be permitted to carry in the state your CCW is issued, and any states within their reciprocity agreement. Carrying it into any other state is a felony.
.......If I am in a personal owned vehicle and have a weapon in the car (in a holster), you mentioned that we should inform you right away, my question is should be leave the weapon concealed or would you prefer to see it lets say up on the center dash where you can clearly see it?......Leave it holstered, and DO NOT touch it. Tell us right away that you have it and where it is. Don't put your hand on your hip and say "it's right here" :). Yes it happens. I know they don't mean to reach for it, it's just a normal reaction to touch the item your talking about, but don't do it (by law it's a felony). To point at is fine, just don't reach for, or touch it. Generally I leave it where it is (glove box, center console, etc). There have been a few I've taken off people. I get them out of the car (not at gun point or anything because they've been complaint so far). They keep their hands away from the weapon, and I take it off them. I unload it, hand them the ammo, and hold on to the weapon until the contact is over. Before we part ways, I hand it back to them slide open (or bolt, hinge, wheel, etc).
.......Sorry so many questions, these are just things Ive wondered and never had a chance to ask...No problem. That's why I made the tread. I've seen so many people talk about my buddy's buddy, did this or saw that. There was too much mis-information out there. I figured I'd give what little advise/clarification as I could.

I appreciate everyone here for following the rules from post 1 and not turning this into a cop bashing thread. It's been a huge success, and hopefully helped some folks to clear up those nagging questions that are so hard to get a straight answer on.

......I'd been told time and again that 'The Man' was going to get me simply because I was Black.

I laugh at that notion nowadays but when you're a kid and grown adults are telling this to you- it gives you pause.......Yeah some people are still stuck in a rut. Every time I hear a prisoner dropping racial slurs (they tend to get belligerent the second the cuffs are on) it catches me by surprise. I think, "really do people still think like that". The best was when I was assisting another Trooper who is Korean (well his parents are, he was born and raised in the states). The guy he was arresting said "**** you, you *****, go back where you came from" and he calmly replied "I'm from Ohio". Ha ha.

maans88
06-15-2011, 09:21 PM
if you are off duty and someone bothers you on the road, what do you do?do you like flash ur ID at him? and what do you think about road rage, do you have one? especially when it's rush hours.

thanks for your time :)

Shots
06-15-2011, 10:22 PM
Ha ha. No if someone is being a turd when I'm off duty I get out of their way and let them crash into someone/something else. It's probably no surprise to you all here, but I'm actually a very mellow person. Not a whole lot gets me worked up (on or off duty). I just ride slow and take in the scenery. I guess that's why we went with a 3.5L instead of a 5.7L. I'd never use the full potential in my own car.

As for road rage. It's a terrible thing, and more and more people seem to have it these days. I've seen people do some stupid stuff (and land themselves some serious charges) as a result of it. That why I just let the turds go by.

Paladin
06-16-2011, 07:18 AM
Yeah some people are still stuck in a rut. Every time I hear a prisoner dropping racial slurs (they tend to get belligerent the second the cuffs are on) it catches me by surprise. I think, "really do people still think like that". The best was when I was assisting another Trooper who is Korean (well his parents are, he was born and raised in the states). The guy he was arresting said "**** you, you *****, go back where you came from" and he calmly replied "I'm from Ohio". Ha ha.

LOVE that retort!

I'm glad you made this thread Shots...there's a lot of questions I had that were answered already, I must say- I do not envy you your job, man. I'll admit I don't have the right mindset, but we already talked about that. :beerchug:

sharp charge
06-17-2011, 11:37 PM
Just dropping by meow to let ya know your boys in the air had their hands full today. We were working one of your planes west near Sandusky chasing a car doing 155 on rt 2. The car was winning... Not sure if a ground unit ever got him.

Stay safe!

Ron380
06-18-2011, 07:42 AM
Holy Smoking Tires! :eek: What kind of car was it?

sharp charge
06-18-2011, 10:11 AM
No idea, the pilot didn't specify. I have been that fast in my Charger when I was in Cali. but not for the distance this guy was running. They were chasing him a good 20 miles with the plane.

Shots
06-18-2011, 03:42 PM
Wow that's fast. I'd be interested to know what kind of car it was too. I'll see if I can find out.

PS. I'll also let you know if they ever got him/her or not if I find out.

CTown R/T R&T
06-18-2011, 05:31 PM
Wow that's fast. I'd be interested to know what kind of car it was too. I'll see if I can find out.

PS. I'll also let you know if they ever got him/her or not if I find out.

According to the local news, it was two motorcycles. Both of whom, are in jail today. (pending bail)

funkpolice6
06-18-2011, 06:40 PM
would "I'm resetting my TCM adaptives" be a good enough exuse to get one out of a ticket for a minor traffic violation, for instance sliding sideways through an intersection, or passing cars on the shoulder?

bill

Ron380
06-18-2011, 07:11 PM
According to the local news, it was two motorcycles. Both of whom, are in jail today. (pending bail)

Yep! I just found a story on them-
http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/ohio-authorities-arrest-2-motorcyclists

They said the second guy hit 163 mph. at one point! :willy_nilly:

sharp charge
06-18-2011, 08:09 PM
Yeah, just logged in to tell ya what you already know. Lol, 2 bikes.

RAWphenom
06-19-2011, 12:26 PM
Yep! I just found a story on them-
http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/ohio-authorities-arrest-2-motorcyclists

They said the second guy hit 163 mph. at one point! :willy_nilly:

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp267/raw_legacy/mother.jpg

I don't think I would ever have the balls to go that fast on a public roadway in a car, let alone a crotch rocket.

Shots
06-19-2011, 03:23 PM
would "I'm resetting my TCM adaptives" be a good enough exuse to get one out of a ticket for a minor traffic violation, for instance sliding sideways through an intersection, or passing cars on the shoulder?

bill:lol3005: Ha ha. Probably not so much.

....I don't think I would ever have the balls to go that fast on a public roadway in a car, let alone a crotch rocket.No kidding. I'm not a big fan of running 100+ with lights and siren on. I can't imagine doing 163 on two wheels with no warning devices. Yikes.

RAWphenom
06-19-2011, 08:12 PM
No kidding. I'm not a big fan of running 100+ with lights and siren on. I can't imagine doing 163 on two wheels with no warning devices. Yikes.

Yeah, most definitely. I've seen a vid of some guy on a busa pulling over 200 :jawdrop::slap:

Ron380
06-20-2011, 06:03 AM
One of my previous managers had a 'Busa, and when he lived in TX he decided to see what it would do... He was "somewhere north of 160 mph" when he glanced down to check his speed. That little movement upset the airflow and the bike started to shake a little. He decided that was fast enough for him and let off the throttle! Smart man! :bigthumb:

Yes, he did have full gear on. ;)

Shots
06-20-2011, 01:04 PM
One of my previous managers had a 'Busa, and when he lived in TX he decided to see what it would do... He was "somewhere north of 160 mph" when he glanced down to check his speed. That little movement upset the airflow and the bike started to shake a little. He decided that was fast enough for him and let off the throttle! Smart man! :bigthumb:

Yes, he did have full gear on. ;)
Ha ha. At that speed the leather is just going to keep your guts in one nice little package, instead of all over the road. :D Well assuming of course it's not a track designed for superbikes where there is room to slide without hitting stuff. If that were the case a rider (or I guess faller at that point) can fair pretty well.

Ron380
06-20-2011, 02:09 PM
Well, I meant he wasn't wearing a t-shirt and flip-flops like some of those morons do. ;)

xkm121
06-20-2011, 02:32 PM
Alright, I got something I really dont under stand here:

Part I: Stalked by a police car.
This happened last Wednesday.I was transferring stuff from my old apartment to my new apartment. On my way home I noticed a car was tail gating me. I hate people do that. I switched lane to let the car pass since I don't wanna go over the 25 speed limit. To my surprise the car pulled right next to me. And I noticed that was a police car! Then we just drive on like that for another 15 blocks. The police car randomly got in front or dropped back a little. I saw the officer was looking at my car(those philips hid are really an eye candy at night!). Well, he is the officer so he surely can do whatever he want. After quit e a while he accelerated and got in front of me. At the coming cross he went straight on while I turned left.

Part II: Stalked by the same police officer, AGAIN
I was going to Winco with my GF this afternoon for some grocery shopping. We both drove our Chargers since my GF still is playing with her 2011 before she return it to the dealer(see another thread, she's not happy about the key less entry problem) Anyway, we were on our way driving below speed limit and out of a crossway i saw a police car pulling out fast. The police car came right after my GF's Charger. Speed limit 40 and we were doing 35~38. WTF was that police officer thinking? So this guy tail gated my GF's Charger for a while. Then he pulled to the next lane and drove paraell with my Charger for 3 blocks. Then he slowed down and drove paraell to my GF's Charger for another 2~3 blocks. Then he turned at the crossing. When we arrived my GF was really shocked by the strange behavior of the police officer, a little scared too. I am definitely sure it it the same officer that was stalking me on Wednesday. It has the same plate number.

My question is: What the hell was this officer doing? Was he just trying to pull me over for wharever minor issue?

sharp charge
06-20-2011, 02:42 PM
Waive at him next time. (use all 5 fingers)

Gladiator
06-20-2011, 02:50 PM
Brake check.

"Wow sorry. I thought I saw a chipmunk or field mouse in the road. You didn't see it? Maybe it was a leaf. Really you should improve your following distance officer. My neck hurts. Can you call an ambulance?"

Shots
06-20-2011, 04:01 PM
Well, I meant he wasn't wearing a t-shirt and flip-flops like some of those morons do. ;)Oh. Yeah, I've seen that. I wear boots, jeans and a leather coat when I ride. Road rash does not look fun.

Alright, I got something I really dont under stand here:

Part I: Stalked by a police car.
......a car was tail gating me........the car pulled right next to me. And I noticed that was a police car! Then we just drive on like that for another 15 blocks. The police car randomly got in front or dropped back a little. I saw the officer was looking at my car........

Part II: Stalked by the same police officer, AGAIN
......The police car came right after my GF's Charger. Speed limit 40 and we were doing 35~38. WTF was that police officer thinking? So this guy tail gated my GF's Charger for a while. Then he pulled to the next lane and drove paraell with my Charger for 3 blocks. Then he slowed down and drove paraell to my GF's Charger for another 2~3 blocks. Then he turned at the crossing. When we arrived my GF was really shocked by the strange behavior of the police officer, a little scared too.......
My question is: What the hell was this officer doing? Was he just trying to pull me over for whatever minor issue?As for part 1. He was probably following close to try to read the plate. From there it sounds like he may be checking out (admiring) the car. That or see further into the part 2 response.
For part 2. Why is your GF "a little scared" because she is being followed by a police car? Does she have outstanding warrants, was she drinking, etc? If you aren't doing anything wrong there's no reason to be afraid of a police car following you. Again he probably followed her close to check the plate on hers too.
He may have been looking for a defect or other reasons to stop you as you mention, or he may be looking for a specific car and trying to determine if one of them was a match. We have a "hot list" of stolen cars. There may be a local Charger stolen that he's looking for. If he's not a car guy he may not know the difference from one year to the next, so he's checking out every Charger he sees. Maybe he's looking for a specific person who is known to drive a Charger and he's looking at the driver not the car. It can be a great many things, but as long as you aren't doing anything wrong there's nothing to worry about.

Waive at him next time. (use all 5 fingers)Yup. People wave at me all the time. I wave back, and if they've got a nice car I'll give them a nod or something to let them know I like it. I've even stopped next to a car at a traffic light, and told them "nice car" or something like that.

Brake check.

"Wow sorry. I thought I saw a chipmunk or field mouse in the road. You didn't see it? Maybe it was a leaf. Really you should improve your following distance officer. My neck hurts. Can you call an ambulance?"Ha ha. Funny, but I don't recommend that. Yes the officer (like any other driver) is required to keep a clear distance. However if it can be proven that you intentionally tried to (or successfully did) cause a crash you can be charged. Tough to prove yes, but not impossible. I know it was a joke, I'm just letting folks know since you brought it up.

GLHS837
06-20-2011, 05:02 PM
Oh. Yeah, I've seen that. I wear boots, jeans and a leather coat when I ride. Road rash does not look fun.


There may be a local Charger stolen that he's looking for. If he's not a car guy he may not know the difference from one year to the next, so he's checking out every Charger he sees. Maybe he's looking for a specific person who is known to drive a Charger and he's looking at the driver not the car. It can be a great many things, but as long as you aren't doing anything wrong there's nothing to worry about.

.


I use a mesh jacket with CE armor in shoulders, elbows, and padding in the forearms and spine, has a zip in liner, and a rain one too. In the summer, its almost like wearing no coat at all once you get moving.

Another thing is that if its the white charger in the pic, given the monochrome, tint and black wheels, he's trying to see if you are an impersonator.

Dreadnought
06-24-2011, 06:02 AM
I think LEO's, like so many others, LOVE to see nice cars...I mean come on, the Charger is sexy as hell lol. On my way home from work yesterday morning there was a deputy running hand-held radar from the strip club parking lot. When I took off from the stop light he literally put the radar gun on the hood of his CV and turned to watch my ride as I went by. Made me feel great! (The county mounties only have 3 Chargers in their fleet atm and they want more lol). I've been "tailgated", pulled next to, had the whole Super Trooper drive-bye deal happen, county Charger revving next to me at the stoplight waiting for the answering bullish mating call of my exhaust...okay thats kinda gross but you get it...and exactly two drag races with cops I'm buddies with while they were returning to the city from the jail. Hell, I got pulled over by a K-9 unit in Dubuque last month as I was returning to WI for an "illegal license plate frame" and spent 20min BS'ing with the Officer about Chargers. Gotta love it :cowsmile:

Gladiator
06-24-2011, 08:37 AM
There is a stretch of road that has a red light. At that red light there is a T intersection with a bridge as the bottom of the T. On the top of the T leading to the red light the township has a posted speed of 35 on one side leading to the light and a posted speed of 45 on the other. On the other side of the bridge as soon as you reach land or halfway across or something you are in a different township. On that side there is a posted speed limit of 25 as soon as you reach land. Now if I am driving from the 25mph township towards the traffic light at the original T intersection I gather I'm expected to be traveling at 25 mph due to seeing no other sign prior to turning at the red light to tell me otherwise but what about from the other side? Should I maintain my 35mph speed from the one direction? The 45 mph speed if I'm coming from the other? I usually do 30-35 and police are rarely if ever on the bridge since they dont pass from one township to the other much but I always wondered what the rule on that should be or if it's just bad planning on someone's part.

Paladin
06-24-2011, 10:27 AM
I can understand why his GF might've been antsy w/a cop on her tail...doesn't have to have anything to do with a guilty conscience, more like- "Why is he following ME?", right?

Let's face it, when you're being trailed by a cop the first thing you think about is what it was you did wrong (unless of course, you already know)...and just to be tailed by a cop for that many blocks w/no apparent reason would be cause for concern in any conscientious driver.

I do not recommend creating an incident, however...although I do know Gladiator was kidding, there are people out there who will take it seriously.

Gladiator
06-24-2011, 11:03 AM
Yeah I was joking for sure. I get nervous when I see a cruiser in the mirror even when driving my wife's SUV that totally blends in and draws no attention to itself. We all make errors driving (most of which are totally harmless) even if we are trying our best to obey the rules. The fear is that the moment the error is made will be when the police are ten feet away.

Paladin
06-24-2011, 11:16 AM
:beerchug:

Same here, man, same here. I try to be conscientious most of the time.

calvinstew
06-24-2011, 11:16 AM
i drive around on cruise control about 99% of the time because i have a tendency to speed otherwise, especially when a song i like comes on.

other than the musical speeding tendency - i'm really a defensive driver ... i trail by 2 seconds most of the time, i don't change lanes at intersections, i apply my blinker at least 100 feet before a turn or changing lanes - and don't begin braking until after the blinker's on ... etc. anyway when a cop gets behind me, i can be doing everything right - but man i damn near lose it. every time. i get scared! really! i get stomach flurries and start cramping up. clammy skin and cold sweats.

i always change my route to wherever it is i'm going in hopes that he's going another way. and just like changing lines at the grocery store - when i change it up, it's always the wrong choice. when a cop gets on me - idk man - i feel like he's waiting for me to mess up and he just stays on my ass for a bit.

side note: i'm moving to allentown, PA in a month and then trying to become a cop - can't wait. aha!

Shots
06-24-2011, 02:40 PM
There is a stretch of road that has a red light. At that red light there is a T intersection with a bridge as the bottom of the T. On the top of the T leading to the red light the township has a posted speed of 35 on one side leading to the light and a posted speed of 45 on the other. On the other side of the bridge as soon as you reach land or halfway across or something you are in a different township. On that side there is a posted speed limit of 25 as soon as you reach land. Now if I am driving from the 25mph township towards the traffic light at the original T intersection I gather I'm expected to be traveling at 25 mph due to seeing no other sign prior to turning at the red light to tell me otherwise but what about from the other side? Should I maintain my 35mph speed from the one direction? The 45 mph speed if I'm coming from the other? I usually do 30-35 and police are rarely if ever on the bridge since they dont pass from one township to the other much but I always wondered what the rule on that should be or if it's just bad planning on someone's part.Well that sounds like a mess of a stretch of road. As for the speed you should be going. Drive whatever the last posted speed is, and adjust to the next sign when you get to it. If the next sign reduces speed slow down to that speed before passing it. If the next sign increases speed, don't speed up until after you pass it. FWIW, that bridge sounds like it's miss marked, and if you really wanted to you could look into the local code to see what the correct speed limit is for that road. They are all predetermined and spelled out in your administrative code.

I can understand why his GF might've been antsy w/a cop on her tail...doesn't have to have anything to do with a guilty conscience, more like- "Why is he following ME?", right?.....

....... anyway when a cop gets behind me, i can be doing everything right - but man i damn near lose it. every time. i get scared! really! i get stomach flurries and start cramping up. clammy skin and cold sweats....... when a cop gets on me - idk man - i feel like he's waiting for me to mess up and he just stays on my ass for a bit.......I understand that, and it's completely logical. Nobody wants a ticket, and that's the first thing that pops into mind is "what did I do". I just took it more literal based on the story and wording, but I guess he may have just been saying she was on edge because there was a cop there. It just seemed like he was saying she was afraid he was going to do something to her because she was followed, not that she was afraid she may get stopped. I must have misunderstood.

Gladiator
06-24-2011, 02:45 PM
It is a mess but only about a half mile and never enforced. There's usually traffic on the bridge anyway so the speed limit is walking speed. :D

TheTrooper
06-24-2011, 06:05 PM
I appreciate the cops, fuzz, 5-0, boys in blue.. what you will.. I have alot of respect for them and think they do a Noble job..
However I just got my straight pipes yesterday, I plan to run them until A: I get a ticket for it B: I get a ticket for it or C: Until my wifes tells me to swap em (JK).
What kind of fine could be looking at? :driving:

funkpolice6
06-24-2011, 08:55 PM
could you get a dui for being tired? nodding off and swerving about.
bill

sharp charge
06-24-2011, 09:03 PM
I appreciate the cops, fuzz, 5-0, boys in blue.. what you will.. I have alot of respect for them and think they do a Noble job..
However I just got my straight pipes yesterday, I plan to run them until A: I get a ticket for it B: I get a ticket for it or C: Until my wifes tells me to swap em (JK).
What kind of fine could be looking at? :driving:

It won't take long for A and B. Should just get cutout's. :beerchug:

sharp charge
06-24-2011, 09:07 PM
Here's a legit question.

What's up with Ohio's Motor Carrier Inspection cruisers. I know their primary purpose and the cruisers are marked differently and only run red lights, but can they make traffic stops on regular passenger cars too?

I can tell the blue winged wheel from a distance so I don't really pay much attention to them, but the usual's still get the black and white fever when they see them in the median.

I know in California their MCI's are regular CHP's and can still make regular civilian traffic enforcement, just not sure about here.

Ron380
06-24-2011, 09:21 PM
could you get a dui for being tired? nodding off and swerving about.
bill

Just a s.w.a.g., but if/when they pull you over for driving like that, and IF you pass the road side tests, then you'd probably just be cited for a "Failure to control" or something similar...? :confused:

Or the officer might just tell you to park it and take a nap for an hour. ;)

On a related note, it's been demonstrated in various tests that driving while sleepy is as dangerous, if not more, than driving stoned. (Depending upon how sleepy vs. how stoned you are.)

RAWphenom
06-24-2011, 09:51 PM
Just a s.w.a.g., but if/when they pull you over for driving like that, and IF you pass the road side tests, then you'd probably just be cited for a "Failure to control" or something similar...? :confused:

Or the officer might just tell you to park it and take a nap for an hour. ;)

On a related note, it's been demonstrated in various tests that driving while sleepy is as dangerous, if not more, than driving stoned. (Depending upon how sleepy vs. how stoned you are.)

I saw that on mythbusters (fantastic show). They determined driving tired, like up for 48 hours I think, is more dangerous than driving drunk, right around the legal limit I think.

hskr
06-24-2011, 11:25 PM
Here's a legit question.

What's up with Ohio's Motor Carrier Inspection cruisers. I know their primary purpose and the cruisers are marked differently and only run red lights, but can they make traffic stops on regular passenger cars too?

I can tell the blue winged wheel from a distance so I don't really pay much attention to them, but the usual's still get the black and white fever when they see them in the median.

I know in California their MCI's are regular CHP's and can still make regular civilian traffic enforcement, just not sure about here.
I know in Iowa the Commercial Vehicle Enforcement officer can only pull over commercial vehicles and have no jurisdiction over regular motorists. That's not to say that if they saw someone committing a serious crime they can't initiate a stop, but they would have to call for a regular trooper to issue any tickets or do any searches if needed and then it would be a witness cite for the initial offense.

funkpolice6
06-25-2011, 04:07 AM
On a related note, it's been demonstrated in various tests that driving while sleepy is as dangerous, if not more, than driving stoned. (Depending upon how sleepy vs. how stoned you are.)
__________________

i've fallen asleep while driving before, to be woken up by the rumble strips on the shoulder. Luckily there were no other cars and the was a shoulder to swerve on to and not on coming traffic or a cliff. In my opinion driving in that condition is infinitly more dangerous than .08 bac.
bill

Shots
06-25-2011, 04:52 AM
I appreciate the cops, fuzz, 5-0, boys in blue.. what you will.. I have alot of respect for them and think they do a Noble job..
However I just got my straight pipes yesterday, I plan to run them until A: I get a ticket for it B: I get a ticket for it or C: Until my wifes tells me to swap em (JK).
What kind of fine could be looking at? :driving:I Ohio each court sets their own fine, although the state does govern what the max can be. On average the fine would be a little over $100.

So how many "wifes" do you have. ;) :lol3005:

could you get a dui for being tired? nodding off and swerving about.
billNo, you're likely to be pulled over, but you should pass field sobriety just fine. As Ron380 said you could still be ticketed for several different things depending on what you did while nodding off (drove off road, crossed centerline, ran light, etc). <--- Yes I've seen every one of those as a result of fatigue.

Here's a legit question.

What's up with Ohio's Motor Carrier Inspection cruisers. I know their primary purpose and the cruisers are marked differently and only run red lights, but can they make traffic stops on regular passenger cars too?

I can tell the blue winged wheel from a distance so I don't really pay much attention to them, but the usual's still get the black and white fever when they see them in the median.

I know in California their MCI's are regular CHP's and can still make regular civilian traffic enforcement, just not sure about here.Ohio does have the MCI's that are specifically for commercial stuff, just like CA. However we also have DOT certified Troopers who can enforce Federal regulations and do inspections and all that stuff. The DOT troop can do normal traffic, but the MCI, like you said, can't run traffic.

......the officer might just tell you to park it and take a nap for an hour. ;)

On a related note, it's been demonstrated in various tests that driving while sleepy is as dangerous, if not more, than driving stoned. (Depending upon how sleepy vs. how stoned you are.)I've told people to swap drivers for a more alert one, park it, etc. Sleepy is very dangerous, and just like OVI, people who are affected by it tend to think they're not as bad as they are. As I said earlier in this post, I've seen people drive through a traffic light without even so much as touching the brake, because they never saw it. Very very dangerous thing. In fact so much so that we can write a commercial vehicle a ticket for fatigue alone, where as a passenger car could only be charged with the violation resulting from the fatigue, not just for driving fatigued itself.

sharp charge
06-25-2011, 06:38 PM
Ohio does have the MCI's that are specifically for commercial stuff, just like CA. However we also have DOT certified Troopers who can enforce Federal regulations and do inspections and all that stuff. The DOT troop can do normal traffic, but the MCI, like you said, can't run traffic.

So would your regular DOT trooper be running the Blue Badge cars or the regular OSP cars?

Shots
06-25-2011, 06:46 PM
Regular OSP

funkpolice6
06-25-2011, 09:09 PM
are you permitted to modify your work car? maybe a Mad Max interceptor kind of thing?
bill

Shots
06-26-2011, 04:23 AM
Ha ha, I wish. First thing I would do is tint the windows.

Dreadnought
07-05-2011, 12:39 AM
Why do most people cover or hide their license plates when posting pics of their cars online? What exactly are they worried about? Being tracked/hunted/stalked? I mean, there are tons of freaks online but there are also tons of freaks within a few mile radius of any of us. Anybody that sees you driving about could copy your plate down and do the terrible unknown that people are afraid of, right?

So, what exactly is it? I figured who better to ask on the forum than one of our resident boys in blue lol...(or black/green/tan :cheers:)

J Blaz 15
07-05-2011, 10:08 AM
Hey Shots...I was in an accident recently where the other driver (in an '07 Nissan Versa) ran a red light. I was sitting still at my red, it turned green, I started to accelerate, made it about 6' into the intersection when the other driver ran her red light from the opposite direction turning left (I was going straight) and tore off the entire front-end of my charger...heartbroken was an understatement...I wasn't going fast enough for my airbag to deploy, my seatbelt locked me in and I was not injured. We hit so hard that her car flipped onto it's side and slid for quite a distance...my crash bar saved the day for me...being that I was in a sitting still position and then accelerated instead driving through the green light at the posted speed of 45mph meant the difference of being only cosmetic > to > being totalled...to the tune of another 6 inches is what my body shop told me...the other driver was also uninjured and neither of us went to the hospital...the officers issued no tickets as she also said that SHE had the green light and there were no witnesses...the officers exchanged our insurance information and both cars were towed...after a thorough investigation by my insurance company they agreed that I was the victim and she was the one at fault...my charger has been paid for since 2008 but I still carry full coverage so that was all good for me...we sued her insurance company for damages only...come to find out she had NO INSURANCE and has a lien on her vehicle meaning she is required to carry full coverage...apparently not in her world...

My question is this...when the crash report was taken by the officers and she reported that she did in fact have insurance...knowingly filing a false police report...isn't that illegal...???...Do the police not substantiate the claim of actually having insurance at the scene...???

Bottom-line...I pay for and have full coverage insurance...I was in an accident that was not my fault...have a charger that is considered "diminished value"...my damages were $3,600.00 in which I received an insurance check less my $500.00 deductible...the Nissan Versa gal ran a red light, lied to police and said she had the green light...had no insurance, lied to police and said she did, sued MY insurance company for personal injury 3 weeks after-the-fact and walked away with several thousand dollars...ONLY IN AMERICA...:icon_flaming:

YUP! i got rear ended, had my day in court, WON the case but the jerkoff still sued me for personal suffering/loss of wages/ etc and won 29K from my ins company AFTER I WON THE CASE!!! their ins company had to pay for damages. its BS, i know brotha it suuuuckkkks but I dint pay a dime and my ins did not go up at all. I wish that could not happen! My car was fixed by thier ins company but i am appalled how he won a personal case against me.

Stumblin Steve
07-05-2011, 10:20 AM
Why do most people cover or hide their license plates when posting pics of their cars online? What exactly are they worried about? Being tracked/hunted/stalked? I mean, there are tons of freaks online but there are also tons of freaks within a few mile radius of any of us. Anybody that sees you driving about could copy your plate down and do the terrible unknown that people are afraid of, right?

So, what exactly is it? I figured who better to ask on the forum than one of our resident boys in blue lol...(or black/green/tan :cheers:)
Some people would simply like to stay as anonymous as possible.

Gladiator
07-05-2011, 12:16 PM
Some people would simply like to stay as anonymous as possible.

:ninja:

Shots
07-05-2011, 04:24 PM
Why do most people cover or hide their license plates when posting pics of their cars online? .......
Some people would simply like to stay as anonymous as possible.
:ninja:
Yup, that's pretty much it. Unless you've got some crazy rare car, people aren't going to track it down from seeing it on the internet. The majority of stolen cars are taken out of convenience. Usually for someone taking it to get from point A to point B. It's actually pretty rare for a specific make/model to be sought out. Although a specific make/model may be a more likely target in a parking lot due to being easier to blend in, easier to steal, worth more if they are looking to chop it, etc.

Strangely enough I'm one of those people that blur my plate. Even if someone did decide to track down my car, and were able to run the plate, they would end up at the post. LEO's can register their car, and driver's license to their department's address so the people we are arresting can't track down where we live. So why then do I blur my plate? Two reasons, both of which are like Stumblin Steve said :ninja:.
Reason one being that I try to keep a low profile online. Yes you all know I'm a State Trooper, and that I work in N.E. Ohio. It's no accident that I've never said exactly what county I am dispatched from, although I have noted what counties I'm likely to be in (again those being N.E.Ohio). You may also notice I haven't posted any pics of me or my family. Nothing personal against the folks here, but since it's a public forum I try to keep in mind that anything I post can be found by people no associated with this forum.
Reason number two may actually be the bigger reason for me to keep a level of anonymity. That being my employer. They seem to think that they should have input on our personal lives as well as work. If we have a facebook page (which I don't), or other type pages they monitor it to see what we're posting. I don't know if they browse for keywords to find anything like this forum, but there are a few key phrases and/or acronyms that I don't use just in case they do. I would list them, but then obviously this would be the biggest red flag post in the world. I'm doing nothing wrong, and actually probably doing more good than they expect by improving the relations with the public, and their view of us. However, it's none of the patrol's business what I do on my time, so I make it as hard as I can to track me down.

I am by no means a paranoid freak, I just try to keep a slightly smaller footprint. Blurring the plate is one thing I can to do contribute to that. So to answer the question. People blur to protect their vehicle in case someone is stalking their car (after all we all list every mod, and usually the value of it), and others just to stay somewhat anonymous.

Shots
07-05-2011, 04:25 PM
PS dreadnought, I just noticed the "PD-itis" in the sig. That's freaking funny. :bowdown:

Dreadnought
07-05-2011, 05:31 PM
:ninja:

http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1536&pictureid=8867

Dreadnought
07-05-2011, 05:36 PM
PS dreadnought, I just noticed the "PD-itis" in the sig. That's freaking funny. :bowdown:

Thanks for the answers. I'll have more PD-itis to post later in the PD thread lol.

hskr
07-05-2011, 05:45 PM
I would think it would be easier to track down a specific car from a forum by the mods list and pictures of said car and not so much the license plate. I've spotted more forum members on the road just by recognizing the car, not the plate.

08Black3.5SE+
07-05-2011, 05:46 PM
OK, I am uncoordinated, and definitely cant recite my ABC's backwards. Hypothetically, I have a drink with dinner, my BAC is .02 and I get pulled over on my way home, go through the field sobriety test, and fail. I am not over the legal limit, and I am not intoxicated, I just can't do one of the field sobriety test's....Can I get an OWI for that?

Gladiator
07-05-2011, 05:49 PM
http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1536&pictureid=8867

Scary shiz. Lol

Dreadnought
07-05-2011, 05:58 PM
Scary shiz. Lol

LOL it was only -20F or so and we were losing our minds at work :alfdance:

Shots
07-05-2011, 07:36 PM
OK, I am uncoordinated, and definitely cant recite my ABC's backwards. Hypothetically, I have a drink with dinner, my BAC is .02 and I get pulled over on my way home, go through the field sobriety test, and fail. I am not over the legal limit, and I am not intoxicated, I just can't do one of the field sobriety test's....Can I get an OWI for that?No. For starters if you're at a BAC of .02 you're likely to not do so poorly on field sobriety that you'll be arrested. No need to worry about reciting the alphabet backwards, that's a myth not a real test. Though you may be uncoordinated and/or have poor balance, we're looking for more than just balance with those tests. More importantly the biggest giveaway of impairment is the eyes. There is a condition called nystagmus. Nystagmus is an involuntary jerking of the eyes, and is amplified by drug and alcohol use. When we check your eyes we're looking for nystagmus. Even before that test though we can see if your eyes are glassy, bloodshot or have dilated pupils, all of which are signs of impairment. The best part about the eyes is that they are right there easy to see, and they give loads of information. I've seen drunks at parties and bars practicing field sobriety tests (or what they think the tests are anyway) and some can become quite good at them while impaired. However much they practice though you can not teach your eyes to not deceive you.
Now all that aside. If for some crazy reason you tank the field sobriety tests, and for an even more crazy reason your eyes indicate impairment. You're arrested for OVI, and taken in for a breath test. Take the test, it will show the low test, and you'll be released. That's why there's a test, so we have a scientific result.
I've had people test under the limit before. It happens, and any officer with any amount of time on at all will have run into this. Sometimes the person is on drugs, sometimes they're running on no sleep, sometimes they just suck at field sobriety. It happens, and any officer trying to get drunks off the streets will eventually run into this. Don't be surprised though if they request urine or blood after a low test. They're not trying to get a different BAC (because they won't even test for alcohol after they've done a breath test), they're just making sure you're not high. Again as long as you're not high that test will show negative and your good.
For me, when I get a low test I give the person a warning for whatever violation I stopped them for, even if I was going to give them a ticket (unless of course it's out of a crash). It's the least I can do for their cooperation. Although cooperation helps them more than me, because if they fail field sobriety and refuse a breath (or urine, or blood) test they'll be charged with the OVI. In Ohio a refusal is an automatic one year suspension so cooperation is in their favor, but I still give warnings for cooperation because I can.

That's probably more information than you were looking for, but I figure too much info is better than not enough info.

MySRT8U
07-05-2011, 08:27 PM
I'll play.
http://www.hell.tv/t/videos/58/teen-princess-gets-her-****-rocked.html?utm_source=wahoha.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=wahoha

what could a female teenager POSSIBLY do to warrant that kind of police brutality?

no saying all cops are like this because I know they are not and I know you have good ones and bad ones like any other profession. I also know the media spins things to make cops look bad, but I gotta be honest, that is RIDICULOUS

Rommey
07-05-2011, 08:39 PM
Ha ha, I wish. First thing I would do is tint the windows.
I guess you'll have to settle for those mirrored sunglasses (with the mirror on the inside). :D

Don't be surprised though if they request urine or blood after a low test. They're not trying to get a different BAC (because they won't even test for alcohol after they've done a breath test), they're just making sure you're not high. Again as long as you're not high that test will show negative and your good.
For me, when I get a low test I give the person a warning for whatever violation I stopped them for, even if I was going to give them a ticket (unless of course it's out of a crash). It's the least I can do for their cooperation. Although cooperation helps them more than me, because if they fail field sobriety and refuse a breath (or urine, or blood) test they'll be charged with the OVI. In Ohio a refusal is an automatic one year suspension so cooperation is in their favor, but I still give warnings for cooperation because I can.
In your explanation here the person did the field sobriety tests and [assumed] consented to a breath test, which would be required to not have an automatic suspension. However could someone refuse the additional tests (blood and/or urine) without automatic suspension? In other words, how many chances do LEOs get to test someone?

08Black3.5SE+
07-05-2011, 09:12 PM
That's probably more information than you were looking for, but I figure too much info is better than not enough info.

Thats actually great info, thanks for taking the time to answer.

Dreadnought
07-05-2011, 11:37 PM
I'll play.
http://www.hell.tv/t/videos/58/teen-princess-gets-her-****-rocked.html?utm_source=wahoha.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=wahoha

what could a female teenager POSSIBLY do to warrant that kind of police brutality?

no saying all cops are like this because I know they are not and I know you have good ones and bad ones like any other profession. I also know the media spins things to make cops look bad, but I gotta be honest, that is RIDICULOUS

Yes, that is ridiculous and horrible to see. I always take a few things into consideration when I see something like this, aside from obvious job related stress factors:

A) We don't know what happened prior to this vid.

B) There are always going to be videos of perceived or actual police brutality, especially in this age of the Internet and electronic technology where everybody and their pets have vid recording capabilities on their phones. Where are all the videos of brutality on the job from other occupations? You won't find tons because nobody cares, its only big news if police are involved.

C) There are hundreds of thousands of sworn police officers in the United States. In those numbers, yes even for police there are going to be bad apples.

Cops are human being just like anybody else, and yes they sometimes make mistakes. These mistakes are often highly publicized, mostly because 1) people love to find accuse cops of wrongdoing...period, and 2) the media are a bunch of vultures who prey on anything and anybody for a rating.

Gunder Armour
07-06-2011, 07:30 AM
Yes, that is ridiculous and horrible to see. I always take a few things into consideration when I see something like this, aside from obvious job related stress factors:

A) We don't know what happened prior to this vid.

B) There are always going to be videos of perceived or actual police brutality, especially in this age of the Internet and electronic technology where everybody and their pets have vid recording capabilities on their phones. Where are all the videos of brutality on the job from other occupations? You won't find tons because nobody cares, its only big news is police are involved.

C) There are hundreds of thousands of sworn police officers in the United States. In those numbers, yes even for police there are going to be bad apples.

Cops are human being just like anybody else, and yes they sometimes make mistakes. These mistakes are often highly publicized, mostly because 1) people love to find accuse cops of wrongdoing...period, and 2) the media are a bunch of vultures who prey on anything and anybody for a rating.

I agree.

From the look of this video, she was arguing, then decided to kick her shoe at the officer. As he was going to go hands on, she resisted, so he pushed her into the wall while she was still resisting, did a take down maneuver (not knowing his own strength).

You have to realize, this looks way worse than it actually was. He wasn't kicking her ass. He was taking her down, however, he may have been a bit overzealous. It's not as painful as you may think. It's not like he was beating the living crap out of her.

Besides, I think she learned not to F with a cop!

-----
Edit: 2 hung juries: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/98119914.html

hskr
07-06-2011, 07:48 AM
I agree.

From the look of this video, she was arguing, then decided to kick her shoe at the officer. As he was going to go hands on, she resisted, so he pushed her into the wall while she was still resisting, did a take down maneuver (not knowing his own strength).

You have to realize, this looks way worse than it actually was. He wasn't kicking her ass. He was taking her down, however, he may have been a bit overzealous. It's not as painful as you may think. It's not like he was beating the living crap out of her.

Besides, I think she learned not to F with a cop!
I would have to say the only thing I really found "excessive" from the video was picking her up by her hair at the end after she was restrained.

MySRT8U
07-06-2011, 08:45 AM
Yes, that is ridiculous and horrible to see. I always take a few things into consideration when I see something like this, aside from obvious job related stress factors:

A) We don't know what happened prior to this vid.

B) There are always going to be videos of perceived or actual police brutality, especially in this age of the Internet and electronic technology where everybody and their pets have vid recording capabilities on their phones. Where are all the videos of brutality on the job from other occupations? You won't find tons because nobody cares, its only big news is police are involved.

C) There are hundreds of thousands of sworn police officers in the United States. In those numbers, yes even for police there are going to be bad apples.

Cops are human being just like anybody else, and yes they sometimes make mistakes. These mistakes are often highly publicized, mostly because 1) people love to find accuse cops of wrongdoing...period, and 2) the media are a bunch of vultures who prey on anything and anybody for a rating.

I agree that we don't know what happened prior to the time of the video. I also know that it shouldn't matter. That is excessive, I don't really care how you look at it. A grown ass man throws THREE punches to the face of a TEENAGE girl, kicks her, throws her head first into a (I'm sure concrete) wall, then proceeds to throw her to the ground by her hair, and after all is said and done and she is restrained and in handcuffs, he begins pulling her up to her feet by her arms, but changes his mind and decides to yank her up by her hair. This is WRONG. And the reason no one cares if a normal joe blow flips out on the job site and beats someone up, is because police are put in a position of power and a lot of the time they use that power in a wrong way.

I agree.

From the look of this video, she was arguing, then decided to kick her shoe at the officer. As he was going to go hands on, she resisted, so he pushed her into the wall while she was still resisting, did a take down maneuver (not knowing his own strength).
if you are a grown man, you have to know you don't need to use all your strength to take a teenage girl to the ground
You have to realize, this looks way worse than it actually was. He wasn't kicking her ass. He was taking her down, however, he may have been a bit overzealous. It's not as painful as you may think. It's not like he was beating the living crap out of her.

Besides, I think she learned not to F with a cop!

-----
Edit: 2 hung juries: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/98119914.html

I would have to say the only thing I really found "excessive" from the video was picking her up by her hair at the end after she was restrained.


I would have to say that is pretty ridiculous. I have a feeling that if that was your daughter, no matter what she did, you wouldn't be happy with how she was treated and you would say it was a bit more than excessive.

hskr
07-06-2011, 08:53 AM
And how do we even know its a teenage girl? Other than taking the word of the caption for the video. Not saying it makes it any better but people seem to keep stressing the teenage part.

Paladin
07-06-2011, 09:02 AM
I've got two daughters, ages 20 and 17...I would not take it kindly if they were treated so. Having said that, I can't see that sort of treatment being justified unless she spit at the officer in which case, that's considered a direct assault. Not saying the girl deserved that treatment, it is a shame- but it isn't like this is the first time we've seen such. No offense to the good LEOs out there, the crumbs are whom I speak of.

MySRT8U
07-06-2011, 09:04 AM
And how do we even know its a teenage girl? Other than taking the word of the caption for the video. Not saying it makes it any better but people seem to keep stressing the teenage part.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/98119914.html

she was 15 at the time. now if you tell me that you would honestly be ok with a full grown man, manhandling your 15 year old daughter like this, I will call you a liar to your face. Add in the fact that he is a cop and should be trained to handle situations with more self-control than the normal guy off the street and you are even more pissed. I guaranty it.

Shots
07-06-2011, 09:04 AM
.............However could someone refuse the additional tests (blood and/or urine) without automatic suspension? In other words, how many chances do LEOs get to test someone?Refusing to any of the tests even after submitting to some is a refusal. The reason being that a person may be more than happy to submit to a breath test knowing that they only had one beer (or maybe even none), but they're high as a kite. It would a free pass if they weren't able to be tested for controlled substances. It's not really so much that we're trying to find a better result, because if the person submits to a breath test we're not going to test for alcohol with the next test (it's a waste of money, and a different result would be thrown out of court anyway because clearly one test would be erroneous). What we're looking for is the reason we detected impairment at the scene if they're not drunk. Yes I've had low tests that I've given warnings to. However, I've never had someone test so low, that I felt the need for additional test, who haven't come back hopped up on drugs.

I'll play.
http://www.hell.tv/t/videos/58/teen-princess-gets-her-****-rocked.html?utm_source=wahoha.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=wahoha

what could a female teenager POSSIBLY do to warrant that kind of police brutality?........
..........this looks way worse than it actually was. He wasn't kicking her ass.......

I would have to say the only thing I really found "excessive" from the video was picking her up by her hair at the end after she was restrained.
I agree with Gunder Armour, in that it looks way worse than it is. Is it a little overzealous? Yeah, probably. Is it excessive, and abusive? Probably not. For starters she's in jail so you can't classify her as a teenage "princess" like the video is titled. Clearly she did something to end up in jail that is a fourth degree misdemeanor or higher (we don't, or more importantly CAN'T, take a minor misdemeanor to jail).
Now watching the video. Notice there are two officers escorting her to a cell. This is normally done by one officer, so having two leads me to believe she was probably combative prior to appearing in this video. Then they get her to the cell she turns with arms folded (as discussed before in this thread a sign of aggression), then kicks her shoe at the deputy. His approach is actually textbook at the onset. A short kick to the hip socket to collapse her stance and take her balance. He immediately closes the gap landing ONE punch (not a barrage of them), to take her off the offensive. Here's where I disagree with his tactics in that he throws her to the ground by her hair. Sure it works, but with the size difference he probably could have used her shoulders, or a simple arm bar. Regardless it's not excessive. Once on the ground she did a maneuver that we call "turtling up". What that means is the she curls her arms under her body like a turtle into its shell. One deputy frees one hand and brings it behind her back, but the other is still tucked. The primary deputy strikes twice (you can't see for sure in the video but most likely target is the deltoid or lats) which will numb the muscle and hurt causing her to release the arm. And then the worst part is he picks her up by the hair. Yes, that's carried away. She is secured, you can stand her up properly at that point. All things up to that look bad, but when you break it down really isn't as bad as it looks.

The problem is that it's a girl, and it's easy for us (the public) to not view her as a threat. The media says she's "a princess" or "defenseless little girl" or all these things they like to use so the public doesn't look at her like a criminal, and associate her with our daughter. It's a mind game they play to make the mean ol' cops look bad and bring up ratings. In realty, the majority of resistings are from women. Not some big burly guy (although they fight too), but more often than not its the 110 pound woman who is going to make you fight. So yeah those "princesses" are not always so sweet and nice. If this was a 6'01", 210 lbs man would it be excessive? Hell no, so why is it just because she's a smaller woman?. He didn't pound on her, and how do we know she's not a 5th degree blackbelt that could kick his @$$ if he doesn't react quickly and forcefully? False assumptions about people by the way they look will get you killed in this line of work. EVERYONE is a substantial threat until secured.

Long story short. It looks bad, and he did some things wrong but as a whole, it's not excessive IMO.

Shots
07-06-2011, 09:12 AM
PS. I forgot to note. No I don't think all that was necessary for kicking a shoe at the deputy, but their may have been more prior to that, which we didn't see.

MySRT8U
07-06-2011, 09:14 AM
Refusing to any of the tests even after submitting to some is a refusal. The reason being that a person may be more than happy to submit to a breath test knowing that they only had one beer (or maybe even none), but they're high as a kite. It would a free pass if they weren't able to be tested for controlled substances. It's not really so much that we're trying to find a better result, because if the person submits to a breath test we're not going to test for alcohol with the next test (it's a waste of money, and a different result would be thrown out of court anyway because clearly one test would be erroneous). What we're looking for is the reason we detected impairment at the scene if they're not drunk. Yes I've had low tests that I've given warnings to. However, I've never had someone test so low, that I felt the need for additional test, who haven't come back hopped up on drugs.


I agree with Gunder Armour, in that it looks way worse than it is. Is it a little overzealous? Yeah, probably. Is it excessive, and abusive? Probably not. For starters she's in jail so you can't classify her as a teenage "princess" like the video is titled. Clearly she did something to end up in jail that is a fourth degree misdemeanor or higher (we don't, or more importantly CAN'T, take a minor misdemeanor to jail).
Now watching the video. Notice there are two officers escorting her to a cell. This is normally done by one officer, so having two leads me to believe she was probably combative prior to appearing in this video. Then they get her to the cell she turns with arms folded (as discussed before in this thread a sign of aggression), then kicks her shoe at the deputy. His approach is actually textbook at the onset. A short kick to the hip socket to collapse her stance and take her balance. He immediately closes the gap landing ONE punch (not a barrage of them), to take her off the offensive. Here's where I disagree with his tactics in that he throws her to the ground by her hair. Sure it works, but with the size difference he probably could have used her shoulders, or a simple arm bar. Regardless it's not excessive. Once on the ground she did a maneuver that we call "turtling up". What that means is the she curls her arms under her body like a turtle into its shell. One deputy frees one hand and brings it behind her back, but the other is still tucked. The primary deputy strikes twice (you can't see for sure in the video but most likely target is the deltoid or lats) which will numb the muscle and hurt causing her to release the arm. And then the worst part is he picks her up by the hair. Yes, that's carried away. She is secured, you can stand her up properly at that point. All things up to that look bad, but when you break it down really isn't as bad as it looks.

The problem is that it's a girl, and it's easy for us (the public) to not view her as a threat. The media says she's "a princess" or "defenseless little girl" or all these things they like to use so the public doesn't look at her like a criminal, and associate her with our daughter. It's a mind game they play to make the mean ol' cops look bad and bring up ratings. In realty, the majority of resistings are from women. Not some big burly guy (although they fight too), but more often than not its the 110 pound woman who is going to make you fight. So yeah those "princesses" are not always so sweet and nice. If this was a 6'01", 210 lbs man would it be excessive? Hell no, so why is it just because she's a smaller woman?. He didn't pound on her, and how do we know she's not a 5th degree blackbelt that could kick his @$$ if he doesn't react quickly and forcefully? False assumptions about people by the way they look will get you killed in this line of work. EVERYONE is a substantial threat until secured.

Long story short. It looks bad, and he did some things wrong but as a whole, it's not excessive IMO.


I understand that she is a criminal and I know that she may have been combative, but a punch to the face, throwing her into a concrete wall (I assumed jail cell walls are concrete) then throwing her down by her hair is a little excessive and if you guys are trained to do that in every situation, then I feel like that is a lapse in the training process. I do appreciate everything most cops do, and I know that it is the minority of you guys that are **** heads, but I definitely think this guy was in that minority

Shots
07-06-2011, 09:16 AM
Yes this is an emotional thing. And we see things like "slammed" into a concrete wall, but I don't ever see him actually "slam" her into the wall. She fell into it after being struck, sure. He didn't grab her and start bashing her into it though.

And no I wouldn't want to see my daughter treated like that, however she better not end up in a jail cell to begin with. If she does she dang sure better show more respect to the officers than that if she does.

Shots
07-06-2011, 09:20 AM
.....then throwing her down by her hair is a little excessive.......I agree with that, and I also agree that she shouldn't be picked up by her hair either. It certainly wasn't a textbook incident, but not the "abusive" treatment made out by the press. As for the title of the caption. The only thing I disagree with is the "princess", because yeah she got rocked.

Gunder Armour
07-06-2011, 09:23 AM
I don't really care how you look at it. A grown ass man throws THREE punches to the face of a TEENAGE girl, kicks her, throws her head first into a (I'm sure concrete) wall, then proceeds to throw her to the ground by her hair, and after all is said and done and she is restrained and in handcuffs, he begins pulling her up to her feet by her arms, but changes his mind and decides to yank her up by her hair. This is WRONG. and a lot of the time they use that power in a wrong way.

See, you DON'T care, so why try to convince you otherwise of what really went on?

NO, a lot of the time they use their power PROPERLY within policy and procedures, or you wouldn't see any cops with a job!! Use common sense!

Regardless, this is done hundreds of times a day or more in the US. She just happened to want to press charges. And guess what, the cop was never found guilty for assault. The jury sided with him, twice.



I would have to say that is pretty ridiculous. I have a feeling that if that was your daughter, no matter what she did, you wouldn't be happy with how she was treated and you would say it was a bit more than excessive.

If it was my daughter, I would first be pissed she was in jail, and if she attacked an officer, I'd be twice as pissed. The fact that she assaulted the officer makes it justifiable. Would I be upset that she had to go through all that? Yes. Would I be upset if she broke a limb or cracked her head open? Hell yes. But if you read the case, she was not injured at all and recovered.

You can't assume the little princess is not a cold hard killer. As Shots said, it gets you killed to assume someone's abilities just on their looks.

MySRT8U
07-06-2011, 09:47 AM
Yes this is an emotional thing. And we see things like "slammed" into a concrete wall, but I don't ever see him actually "slam" her into the wall. She fell into it after being struck, sure. He didn't grab her and start bashing her into it though.

And no I wouldn't want to see my daughter treated like that, however she better not end up in a jail cell to begin with. If she does she dang sure better show more respect to the officers than that if she does.

See, you DON'T care, so why try to convince you otherwise of what really went on?

NO, a lot of the time they use their power PROPERLY within policy and procedures, or you wouldn't see any cops with a job!! Use common sense!

Regardless, this is done hundreds of times a day or more in the US. She just happened to want to press charges. And guess what, the cop was never found guilty for assault. The jury sided with him, twice.




If it was my daughter, I would first be pissed she was in jail, and if she attacked an officer, I'd be twice as pissed. The fact that she assaulted the officer makes it justifiable. Would I be upset that she had to go through all that? Yes. Would I be upset if she broke a limb or cracked her head open? Hell yes. But if you read the case, she was not injured at all and recovered.

You can't assume the little princess is not a cold hard killer. As Shots said, it gets you killed to assume someone's abilities just on their looks.


she already IN JAIL at this point. It is obvious the REAL threat is over. If you are a cop and are that scared of a damn shoe you need a new profession. This guy was wrong, bottom line, and you are right, you won't convince me otherwise. I never said that I wouldn't be pissed at my daughter is she ended up in jail like that bc I would. I still don't think his response was warranted.

Shots
07-06-2011, 09:54 AM
she already IN JAIL at this point. It is obvious the REAL threat is over. If you are a cop and are that scared of a damn shoe you need a new profession. This guy was wrong, bottom line, and you are right, you won't convince me otherwise. I never said that I wouldn't be pissed at my daughter is she ended up in jail like that bc I would. I still don't think his response was warranted.

Ok folks let's keep it civil, we've been good so far. Now to reply. Yes the biggest threat is over with her in jail, but you still can't assume she's harmless. Also if you refer back to post #425, I noted that it wasn't necessary for kicking a shoe. You need to keep in mind though that this whole incident may go way beyond a simple kicked shoe. That's what makes videos like that, and topics like this so hard to discuss. We don't know all the facts (and probably never will).

Someone just asked me today what I thought about the verdict on that lady accused of killing her kid. I told them I choose to side with the jury. They were presented all the fact and made a decision based on those facts, and all we got was partial information and the media spin. I did the same thing with O.J.

Paladin
07-06-2011, 10:24 AM
Where's a good telepath when you need one, eh?

Shots
07-06-2011, 10:25 AM
Ha ha. It's like they know you're looking for them and hide... oh wait....

:D

Paladin
07-06-2011, 11:01 AM
Right? So let me ask you...in your avatar, are your rear brake lights PD'd? I was looking at mine over the weekend...but wasn't sure if it could be pulled off w/out a hitch. Looks like you did just fine.

Shots
07-06-2011, 01:53 PM
Nope, mine are VHT Nite Shade, with areas left uncovered to keep them legal.

Gunder Armour
07-06-2011, 03:17 PM
she already IN JAIL at this point. It is obvious the REAL threat is over.

Have you been to a jail? Have you been in a prison? Are you kidding? The "real threat is over"??? WTFRAK?! Do you know how often correctional officers get assaulted and killed??

MySRT8U
07-06-2011, 04:23 PM
Have you been to a jail? Have you been in a prison? Are you kidding? The "real threat is over"??? WTFRAK?! Do you know how often correctional officers get assaulted and killed??

and how many of those are from a 15 year old, unarmed girl? give me a break dude :rolleyes2:

Gladiator
07-06-2011, 05:06 PM
Procedures are procedures. I know from fighting competitively on an amateur level that if you underestimate someone and don't go all out all of the time to protect yourself you will get hurt. That girl could easily injure a grown man if he treated her as a joke. Having said that I agree with shots on all of the things done wrong. This guy was by no means 100% right.

Gunder Armour
07-07-2011, 08:05 AM
and how many of those are from a 15 year old, unarmed girl? give me a break dude :rolleyes2:

Alright. I suggest you do a "ride along" in your local large jail. Come back and tell me your "pleasant" experiences with the "unarmed" girls and teenagers.

You do realize they make up a large chunk of gangs on the streets, right?

RAWphenom
07-07-2011, 10:19 AM
The jury sided with him, twice.

Technically, the only sided with him once and that was during the second trial. The jury vote the first was 11-1 to convict. I call that lucky :D haha

Gunder Armour
07-07-2011, 11:12 AM
Technically, the only sided with him once and that was during the second trial. The jury vote the first was 11-1 to convict. I call that lucky :D haha

Semantics. :D :beerchug:

daytona torRed
07-07-2011, 11:23 AM
I wonder how many that thinks he was in the complete right,hides behind the couch when a girl scout knocks on the door(in a big city).
No need to reply to my post this was a little venting,reading some of these post that suggest two cops out of arms reach and with the benifit of a steel door to close if they were attacked,cant seem to use better judgement than that.Remember these guy had training to protect themselves and to acess a situation.
The first guy failed and shouldn't be a cop it's obviouse he can't acess a situation properly and the second guy was just backing up the first.
My thearory is they told her to take her shoes off and she thought they wanted them so she mouthed off and kicked her shoe to them and the first cop wasn't going to be mouthed by a kid in front of the other.I paticularly like how he came back in to clean up any blood and I dont think that is proper protocal to prepare the cell for another inmate.This is my opinion
This reminds me of the coverage of the Irag war.Fox News was the only one that would report the good the troops was doing and how all the kids would swarm them and how the people liked them.
These reports on cops is always the bad ones and never show the good ones just doing thier job so the general public tends to have a biased opinion.
B ut to me no matter what happened before that incident it shouldn't bleed over thats the differnce btween a person that should be a cop and ones that shouldn't,acessing that situation at every moment is the key.

Shots
07-07-2011, 03:02 PM
I wonder how many that thinks he was in the complete right,hides behind the couch when a girl scout knocks on the door(in a big city)........
I don't think anyone thinks he was completely right. Those who have stated comments in favor of the C.O. are simply saying it's not as cut and dry as her being a 15 year old girl with nothing else being taken into consideration.

Shots
07-07-2011, 03:15 PM
Just for gins (and since it's the ask a cop thread), let's break it down into a matter of law instead of opinions and feelings. Obviously this is Ohio law, but most states will be similar.

She committed assault on an officer. When the person being assaulted is a C.O. and is assaulted by a prisoner the violation is a fifth degree felony. This is NOT an innocent little girl, she is a 15 year old felon. No I don't think she should be charged with the felony, but by law she could be. I have put dots in the long unrelated sections so you don't get bored. I also bold faced the important sections.

ORC 2903.13 Assault:
(A) No person shall knowingly cause or attempt to cause physical harm to another or to another’s unborn.
(B) No person shall recklessly cause serious physical harm to another or to another’s unborn.
(1)..........
(2) If the offense is committed in any of the following circumstances, assault is a felony of the fifth degree:
(a)..........
(b) The offense occurs in or on the grounds of a local correctional facility, the victim of the offense is an employee of the local correctional facility or a probation department or is on the premises of the facility for business purposes or as a visitor, and the offense is committed by a person who is under custody in the facility subsequent to the person’s arrest for any crime or delinquent act, subsequent to the person’s being charged with or convicted of any crime, or subsequent to the person’s being alleged to be or adjudicated a delinquent child.


Why kick a shoe at someone unless you intent to hit them with it? Why try to hit them with it unless you intent for it to hurt (even if only a little bit)? So did she attempt to cause physical harm? Well I guess that depends on what physical harm is, so here it is per the ORC

ORC 2901.01 Definitions:
(A) As used in the Revised Code:
(1).....
(2).....
(3) “Physical harm to persons” means any injury, illness, or other physiological impairment, regardless of its gravity or duration.
(4).....



So physical harm does not have to be long or substantial. To have a shoe simply bounce off your face, and stinging for a second is physical harm. So yes she attempted physical harm and she meets all the requirements of assault. No other cause before that is necessary although prior cause adds to the justification of the end result of being taken down and cuffed.

Ok that's the legal view of the event. No opinion added (except saying I don't think she should be charged with a felony), take it for what you will.

daytona torRed
07-07-2011, 05:37 PM
I don't think anyone thinks he was completely right. Those who have stated comments in favor of the C.O. are simply saying it's not as cut and dry as her being a 15 year old girl with nothing else being taken into consideration.

My post wasn't directed at you.I understand you are in a "tight" spot as they say.You see this stuff and are trained as the others but also you understand how regular ppl think.I sence from your other posts your level headed.And I appreciate the fact that you started this thread and have maintained it and seem to enjoy answering everyones questions.

daytona torRed
07-07-2011, 05:42 PM
the thing that gets me about this is the cop that the shoe went towards wasn't the one going all rambo on the kid.And after the straps were on he then couldn't pick her put by her arms with one hand so he grapped her by the hair with both hands,way overboard as she was restrained and didnt resist not once in the video.
I just can't find any reason to think this is a good cop from this video.

daytona torRed
07-07-2011, 06:37 PM
To get back on topic:I know a guy that works at a prison and he was beat up by a prisoner,I dont know how many was involved.Ok the question is what charges would the prisoner be looking at ie:longer sentence,fines,status upgrade to a more dangerous prisoner?

Rommey
07-07-2011, 07:18 PM
Not really a "legal" question, but I saw a situation the other day in DC. We were waiting for the Archives to open and while we were waiting, a police officer made a traffic stop right in front where we were waiting. No real issue with the driver, but this being DC and having a lot of tourists, it struck me as odd that while in the middle of issuing the driver a citation (or warning) people came up to the cop (two separate times) and started asking directions (or information). The cop answered their questions and proceeded to finish the citation.

Obviously nothing happened, but how could anyone know? Especially seeing all the TV shows that show high speed chases for nothing more than a minor traffic violation. You never know how people are going to react and it seemed that during a traffic stop is not really the best time to stop and ask directions.

jdrew
07-07-2011, 07:32 PM
Sorry to bring this dead horse to life again, but I couldn't stop myself.

and how many of those are from a 15 year old, unarmed girl? give me a break dude :rolleyes2:

Believe it or not, 15yr old females kill people daily.. Guns, knives, ball bats and yes, with feet and fists and a solid wall/floor... You are sheltered and blind if you believe otherwise.

http://crime.about.com/b/2009/10/28/15-year-old-female-arrested-in-girls-murder.htm
http://www.bloggernews.net/123051 "Alyssa Bustamante is only 15 years old. Still a child yet she committed a horrendous crime with reports claiming it was just so she could know what it feels like to kill someone."


Alright. I suggest you do a "ride along" in your local large jail. Come back and tell me your "pleasant" experiences with the "unarmed" girls and teenagers.

You do realize they make up a large chunk of gangs on the streets, right?

I've worked in a larger jail (700+ inmates) and on the street... Age, size, color, sex, wealth... NONE of that makes a damn difference.. Anyone at anytime is capable of being a threat and even a deadly one...

MySRT8U
07-07-2011, 09:02 PM
Believe it or not, 15yr old females kill people daily.. Guns, knives, ball bats and yes, with feet and fists and a solid wall/floor... You are sheltered and blind if you believe otherwise.

http://crime.about.com/b/2009/10/28/15-year-old-female-arrested-in-girls-murder.htm
http://www.bloggernews.net/123051

you show me ONE case of a 15 year old female killing a little girl and you feel you can claim that 15 year old girls kill DAILY??! Right :rolleyes2: and I am in no way sheltered or blind, but I guaranty you are flat wrong.

hskr
07-07-2011, 09:23 PM
Okay, I think we should move on from the subject of the video in order to keep this thread civil. Several people are starting to take it personally and it's getting a little heated in here. let's not get this thread shut down.

Gladiator
07-07-2011, 10:01 PM
Agreed. Everyone has stated their opinions. Time to move on. I won't close this thread but I will take a Men in Black memory eraser to several pages of it if necessary.


http://betacache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2011/03/small_meninblackmemoryerase.jpg

Dreadnought
07-08-2011, 06:53 AM
Seattle's Best coffee blow, Krispy Kremes are pwn'd by Dunkin Donuts, and it p*sses me off that the only place opened to get food within my jurisdiction is the Golden Arches. :cowsmile:

Shots
07-08-2011, 01:12 PM
To get back on topic:I know a guy that works at a prison and he was beat up by a prisoner,I dont know how many was involved.Ok the question is what charges would the prisoner be looking at ie:longer sentence,fines,status upgrade to a more dangerous prisoner?As noted when I posted the actual law portion about the video, it's a felony to assault an officer. Depending on the severity of the assault (did they cause physical harm, serious physical harm, or death) will determine the level of offense. At the lowest level it's a fifth degree felony which is good for a substantial amount of time added to their sentence. If the assault results in the death of the C.O., they'll likely be executed.

...... it struck me as odd that while in the middle of issuing the driver a citation (or warning) people came up to the cop (two separate times) and started asking directions (or information)..... .....it seemed that during a traffic stop is not really the best time to stop and ask directions.Yeah people don't understand the threat that is ever present. There is no such thing as a "routine traffic stop". The only thing that is routine is that we activate our emergency lights and the car pulls over. Heck sometimes even that routine doesn't happen. It is a very bad idea to interrupt a traffic stop. You never know the car may be stolen, the driver may have 5 pounds of coke in the trunk, or a laundry list of warrants and the cop is just playing it cool till backup arrives. Wait till they finish the contact then flag them down/approach them. Every time I've had a person stop while I'm in the middle of a traffic stop, I've had them relocate somewhere safer, and tell them to standby till I'm done. It's just safer for all involved.

Okay, I think we should move on from the subject of the video in order to keep this thread civil. Several people are starting to take it personally and it's getting a little heated in here. let's not get this thread shut down.
Agreed. Everyone has stated their opinions. Time to move on. I won't close this thread but I will take a Men in Black memory eraser to several pages of it if necessary.


http://betacache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2011/03/small_meninblackmemoryerase.jpg:D Ha ha, thanks Gladiator. Funny you should mention the memory eraser, because yesterday I was thinking "if this gets out of control I'll have to ask a mod to make a few posts disappear". Good looking out brother. :beerchug:

PS. X3 on what hskr said.

Seattle's Best coffee blow, Krispy Kremes are pwn'd by Dunkin Donuts, and it p*sses me off that the only place opened to get food within my jurisdiction is the Golden Arches. :cowsmile:Hey at least the Golden Arches have good coffee. The food not so much, but I guess you can't have it all. You got a Tim Hortons out your way? They have good coffee and good food and they're open all night.

Dreadnought
07-08-2011, 07:12 PM
Hey at least the Golden Arches have good coffee. The food not so much, but I guess you can't have it all. You got a Tim Hortons out your way? They have good coffee and good food and they're open all night.

No Tim Hortons out here. You're right about McDonald's coffee though. Its good without being great and I just can't stop drinking it. I swear they sprinkle crack in it lol. As a matter of fact, they know me so well that when I pull up they ask me if I want extra crack in my coffee (which translates into a free shot of espresso :alfdance:).

Shots
07-09-2011, 05:06 AM
:lol3005: ha ha. How very nice of them to keep you hooked.

sharp charge
07-11-2011, 10:50 PM
LOL, a Starbucks in NE Ohio had my dad's pic up on their wall, he was there so much. Not sure if it was in uniform or civies, I can't remember. He didn't even have to order, just pulled up and out it came.

Shots
07-12-2011, 05:54 AM
LOL. Now that's a serious coffee addiction.

FinGot1
07-12-2011, 03:27 PM
When a no turn on red sign says on school days , can I legally turn on red during summer vacation, spring break, a snow day?

Do motorcycle cops have a certain time to ride like 6am-dark? How about weather do they not ride in the rain?

Shots
07-12-2011, 06:24 PM
Yes you can turn on government holidays, summer break, snow days, etc.

Our motorcycle units ride in weather. Obviously during the nasty winter months they drive a car, but the patrol actually started as motorcycles only. We adapted to cars from bikes. And for the most part they're day units. More so for seniority reasons then anything else. The guys who are able to bid on the MC position (assuming they meet all the requirements) are likely to be senior enough to also bid on a day shift.

REDxEYES
07-22-2011, 07:10 PM
Wow! It took two nights to read all the posts, but it was well worth it. Thanks Shots for making this thread.

It is illegal to pass on the right, right? I had a discussion with someone about this the other day. But, if there is a DA impeding traffic flow in the fast lane driving the same speed as the car in the next lane, can I move over two lanes to pass them both?

Also, is it true that no matter the speed limit, keep up with traffic? Even if traffic is say 20 miles over?

hskr
07-22-2011, 07:28 PM
Wow! It took two nights to read all the posts, but it was well worth it. Thanks Shots for making this thread.

It is illegal to pass on the right, right? I had a discussion with someone about this the other day. But, if there is a DA impeding traffic flow in the fast lane driving the same speed as the car in the next lane, can I move over two lanes to pass them both?

Also, is it true that no matter the speed limit, keep up with traffic? Even if traffic is say 20 miles over?
On multiple lane roads, I pass people on the right all the time. I've even done it to get around retards who are too afraid to go around a cop and never had a problem. I think the passing on the right thing is meant more for two lane roads that would require you to go onto the shoulder to pass. But i could be wrong.

Shots
07-22-2011, 07:39 PM
Wow! It took two nights to read all the posts, but it was well worth it. Thanks Shots for making this thread. .......Glad to help. I would like to thank everyone for participating, and for keeping things civil.

....... It is illegal to pass on the right, right? I had a discussion with someone about this the other day. But, if there is a DA impeding traffic flow in the fast lane driving the same speed as the car in the next lane, can I move over two lanes to pass them both?......NC may be different, but I'll try to find a definite answer for you (I've got links to all the state codes). I'm short on time at the moment, so I will say that as far as Ohio is concerned, hskr is correct. You can pass on the right provided there is a lane for you to do so.

..... Also, is it true that no matter the speed limit, keep up with traffic? Even if traffic is say 20 miles over?Complete myth. If a pack of cars are all driving 20+ I'll try to stop as many of them as I can, but I'll be sure to stop at least one of them (stopping multiple cars at once is a bit challenging).

Ron380
07-22-2011, 07:47 PM
Complete myth. If a pack of cars are all driving 20+ I'll try to stop as many of them as I can, but I'll be sure to stop at least one of them (stopping multiple cars at once is a bit challenging).

Isn't that what "stop sticks" are for? :knockout:


:cowsmile:

REDxEYES
07-22-2011, 08:47 PM
Thanks Shots, you are the man! ... literally. :)

AFPVet
07-22-2011, 10:24 PM
What you do in this context is pull by one car, signal for them to pull over or use your PA, then accelerate to another vehicle and do as many as you want to deal with LOL. FYI, if you are cruising in a speed pack like that, make sure that you are far enough up in the pack ;)

RAWphenom
07-22-2011, 10:47 PM
NC may be different, but I'll try to find a definite answer for you (I've got links to all the state codes). I'm short on time at the moment, so I will say that as far as Ohio is concerned, hskr is correct. You can pass on the right provided there is a lane for you to do so.

Complete myth. If a pack of cars are all driving 20+ I'll try to stop as many of them as I can, but I'll be sure to stop at least one of them (stopping multiple cars at once is a bit challenging).

I always thought it was illegal to pass on the right if you were just dipping down there to pass and then popping right back up in another lane. It's called the slow lane for slow drivers, not passers :biggrinjester: At least that was my train of thought.
And I was on the way to the beach one year and we were making a three car train and the two in the back got pulled over. It was the first and only time I've ever seen one cop pull over multiple cars. I was impressed. A couple weeks ago I saw five cops have five cars pulled over all in about the course of half a mile.

I keep having questions, but I always forget them before I can get back to the computer hahaha.

hskr
07-22-2011, 11:04 PM
I always thought it was illegal to pass on the right if you were just dipping down there to pass and then popping right back up in another lane. It's called the slow lane for slow drivers, not passers :biggrinjester: At least that was my train of thought.

Well, then they would be just as much at fault for impeding traffic. In California, it's actually law for slow drivers to move over and you can get ticketed for it. Of course we are talking not breaking the speed limit while doing this passing.

And I was on the way to the beach one year and we were making a three car train and the two in the back got pulled over. It was the first and only time I've ever seen one cop pull over multiple cars. I was impressed. A couple weeks ago I saw five cops have five cars pulled over all in about the course of half a mile.

I keep having questions, but I always forget them before I can get back to the computer hahaha.
I have some friends that were pulled over as a group of three by the same officer. he used the tactic listed above of driving up to the rear vehicle, signalling for them to pull over, then moving on to the next. All four of them got tickets.

AFPVet
07-22-2011, 11:11 PM
I honestly think that the current speed limits need revision. The nationwide 55 never worked. In fact, statistics show that there are fewer crashes with 65 mph limits as opposed to 55. I believe that we should actually raise the limit to a point where people will be less likely to break it. Texas—for instance—raised their speed limits to 85 on the interstates. If the speed limit is 65 or 70 for highway and 85 for interstate, there would be very few civil infractions for speed. Hell... even on the interstate I wouldn't think that I would need to go over 80 even if the limit was 85. So long as people knew that they wouldn't be able to get away with exceeding the limit over 1 mph (radar accuracy +/- 1 mph using corrected tuning forks).

hskr
07-22-2011, 11:18 PM
I honestly think that the current speed limits need revision. The nationwide 55 never worked. In fact, statistics show that there are fewer crashes with 65 mph limits as opposed to 55. I believe that we should actually raise the limit to a point where people will be less likely to break it. Texas—for instance—raised their speed limits to 85 on the interstates. If the speed limit is 65 or 70 for highway and 85 for interstate, there would be very few civil infractions for speed. Hell... even on the interstate I wouldn't think that I would need to go over 80 even if the limit was 85. So long as people knew that they wouldn't be able to get away with exceeding the limit over 1 mph (radar accuracy +/- 1 mph using corrected tuning forks).
That will never work because if there is a "limit" set, people will push it as far as they can. So if the speed limit is raised from 75 to 85, then people will just start driving 90-95 instead of 80-85 trying to push the limit.

sharp charge
07-22-2011, 11:24 PM
No one take this one too far, it's a hot topic I know...

What did ya think of that Canton CCW arrest dash-cam video? In your opinion, did the driver attempt to convey he had a permit in a timely manner? What about officer #2 conducting a search with the driver in the car still?

AFPVet
07-22-2011, 11:32 PM
That will never work because if there is a "limit" set, people will push it as far as they can. So if the speed limit is raised from 75 to 85, then people will just start driving 90-95 instead of 80-85 trying to push the limit.

Well, then they will learn lol. That is exactly the problem! People think that they can push the limit or go 5 or 10 over; however, that's not the point of the speed limit. By raising it, we eliminate the need to go over by putting up signs saying 70 or 85 maximum mph respectively.

hskr
07-23-2011, 12:26 AM
Well, then they will learn lol. That is exactly the problem! People think that they can push the limit or go 5 or 10 over; however, that's not the point of the speed limit. By raising it, we eliminate the need to go over by putting up signs saying 70 or 85 maximum mph respectively.
Doesn't matter what the sign says, people will still go faster. So we raise the speed limit 10mph because everybody goes that much faster anyways. Then people start going 10mph faster than the new speed limit. Does that mean we need to change it again? Where do you draw the line? Make every road like part of the autobahn in germany where there is no limit other than the vehicle you are driving?

AFPVet
07-23-2011, 01:01 AM
Doesn't matter what the sign says, people will still go faster. So we raise the speed limit 10mph because everybody goes that much faster anyways. Then people start going 10mph faster than the new speed limit. Does that mean we need to change it again? Where do you draw the line? Make every road like part of the autobahn in Germany where there is no limit other than the vehicle you are driving?

That could be an idea if if comes to that. Hmm... citizens actually being responsible for potential hazards... what a thought—in lieu of speed enforcement money making. Very interesting indeed :beerchug:

RAWphenom
07-23-2011, 11:09 AM
That will never work because if there is a "limit" set, people will push it as far as they can. So if the speed limit is raised from 75 to 85, then people will just start driving 90-95 instead of 80-85 trying to push the limit.

Personally, I wouldn't. I don't like driving that fast in my vehicle all the time. I'll do it for quick spurts to pass somebody or if I'm a little aggravated, but very rarely.

Binns
07-23-2011, 01:03 PM
I honestly think that the current speed limits need revision. The nationwide 55 never worked. In fact, statistics show that there are fewer crashes with 65 mph limits as opposed to 55. I believe that we should actually raise the limit to a point where people will be less likely to break it. Texas—for instance—raised their speed limits to 85 on the interstates. If the speed limit is 65 or 70 for highway and 85 for interstate, there would be very few civil infractions for speed. Hell... even on the interstate I wouldn't think that I would need to go over 80 even if the limit was 85. So long as people knew that they wouldn't be able to get away with exceeding the limit over 1 mph (radar accuracy +/- 1 mph using corrected tuning forks).

actually its 80 not 85
and most people don't drive 80

Shots
07-23-2011, 01:12 PM
.........It is illegal to pass on the right, right? I had a discussion with someone about this the other day.....Ok I have more time today, so I looked up NC code on it. You ARE permitted to pass on the right per NC Code 20-150.1. Here you go:
§ 20‑150.1. When passing on the right is permitted.
The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass upon the right of another vehicle only under the following conditions:
(1) When the vehicle overtaken is in a lane designated for left turns;
(2) Upon a street or highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width which have been marked for two or more lanes of moving vehicles in each direction and are not occupied by parked vehicles;
(3) Upon a one‑way street, or upon a highway on which traffic is restricted to one direction of movement when such street or highway is free from obstructions and is of sufficient width and is marked for two or more lanes of moving vehicles which are not occupied by parked vehicles;
(4) When driving in a lane designating a right turn on a red traffic signal light. (1953, c. 679.)

What you do in this context is pull by one car, signal for them to pull over or use your PA, then accelerate to another vehicle and do as many as you want to deal with LOL......You're actually pretty close to how I do it, but I start at the front of the pack and work back. That way the front runner doesn't keep going while I'm trying to stop the back car. Move to the front first and they all slow down behind them. Then you signal them over, and slow to the rear signaling each over on the way by. An even easier method (my preferred method) is to take the pack while stationary and out of the vehicle. Simply point to each car you want to stop and signal them over as they approach.
The problem with stopping multiple cars is that some of the drivers "don't see" you, or "don't understand" what you wanted them to do, and keep going. Usually they just saved the pack as that's likely to be the car you really want to stop anyway (I'm always looking for something more than a speed ticket), so you leave the ones who complied to run that one down. The trick to that is to be able to recognize a decoy who is intentionally trying to save the pack.

......I keep having questions, but I always forget them before I can get back to the computer hahaha.Ha ha. When they pop back in mind I'll be happy to answer them.

.....I believe that we should actually raise the limit to a point where people will be less likely to break it.
That will never work because if there is a "limit" set, people will push it as far as they can. So if the speed limit is raised from 75 to 85, then people will just start driving 90-95 instead of 80-85 trying to push the limit.Unfortunately I think hskr is probably right. Here's an example. I'll stop a car/truck for 9 over. I contact the driver and say something like blah blah blah, ".... I stopped you for you speed". I've had a ton of drivers reply "really, I wasn't even 10 over". They are completely serious, and almost sound amazed that they were stopped. It happens all the time. People have somehow gotten into their head that they automatically get AT LEAST 5 mph over the limit, and most for some reason think 10 is acceptable. The limit is what the sign says, not 5-10 over what the sign says. No this is not just on the interstate. I've gotten this response on rural roads, on the interstate, and even in a 25 MPH business zone right through the middle of town. That's 40 MPH past a bunch of open businesses on a 2 lane road with heavy traffic.
I was writing a guy a ticket for 15 over once and the guy got pissed and asked why we stop for trivial stuff. He continued his rant to say "every other state in the union give you at least 10-15 over". Seriously!?!?! This guy want a warning for 15 over the limit? Come on that's not a lapse attention to the speed where you vary a few MPH, that is just driving too fast.
People don't get that there is no one set "cushion" for a warning. Each situation is different and where one car may get a warning for 10 over a different one at a different time may get a ticket at 8 over.

No one take this one too far, it's a hot topic I know...

What did ya think of that Canton CCW arrest dash-cam video? In your opinion, did the driver attempt to convey he had a permit in a timely manner? What about officer #2 conducting a search with the driver in the car still?What's the hot topic, the officer was an @$$. I didn't watch the whole video because it was clear that he was wrong. I can't imagine anyone making an argument for his actions. Its just a shame that videos like this get aired and give all LEO's a bad name.
As for the driver conveying he had a permit in timely manner. I would say no although that's no excuse for that tirade. He did seem to attempt it a time or two if you're reading the captions opinion (which BTW are pro CCW (as am I)). Saying "I've never done this before" seeming like he's giving a disclaimer and about to tell the officer, but it could also be that he is saying "I've never done this before" as in he never picked up a hooker/drugs before. The officer stated prior to talking to the driver that the other person had been picked up for soliciting before which would imply that the driver was a John or buying drugs. Based on the area I would guess it was a drug buy and he's saying he had never done that before.
Another thing to note is that in the time it took to say "I've never done this before" he could easily have said "I'm armed, and have a CCW". That way even if the officer cut him off, he still would have got out the first two words out, which are the most important "I'm armed". So in all. Yes the guy could have notified the officer faster, but that in no way justifies the officer's melt down.

..... citizens actually being responsible for potential hazards... what a thought—in lieu of speed enforcement money making.....Ha! People being responsible for potential hazards, now that's funny. Sure some people would be responsible. Of course [I]some people[/] don't drink and drive. I like the idea of it, and I really like the faith you put in your fellow citizens. Unfortunately even if the majority of drivers were responsible (which I think they probably would be), the careless ones would put them all at risk, by driving like idiots and pushing way to hard.

GLHS837
07-23-2011, 01:17 PM
From my research, folks dont automatically just do 10 over. Folks, not given a limit, will end going what they feel safe doing. Barring outside conditions like multiple entrances, schools, etc, that's how speed limits are supposed to be set. Do a survey, and the limit is set to where the 85th percentile drives.

The Manual on Uniform
Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD Section 2B.13). The establishment of a speed
limit is required to be based upon engineering study, and any resulting posting
must be in increments of 5 mph. One major basis for the setting of speed limits
is that most motorists are able to select a reasonable and safe speed. Using the
85th%ile speed as a baseline, the proposed speed limit may be adjusted based
upon additional factors, including, road characteristics (e.g., shoulder condition,
grade, alignment, and sight distance), the pace speed, roadside development
and environment, parking practices and pedestrian activity, and reported crash
experience.


What is the 85
th
%ile Speed?
This is the speed at which or below 85%
of the vehicles are travelling .**Speeds are
typically assumed to be normally
distributed which results in a probability
distribution as shown below. Knowing**
this**distribution allows for the targeting
of egregious violators.**Additionally,
studies have shown that as vehicle
speeds deviate from the mean the risk of
a crash increases; using the 85
th%ile method lessens variation of speeds
within a traffic stream

RAWphenom
07-23-2011, 01:57 PM
actually its 80 not 85
and most people don't drive 80

They're talking about raising it to 85, or already have. Here (http://www.autoevolution.com/news/85-mph-new-speed-limit-for-texas-33928.html)'s an article.

Ok, here's a question (not either of the ones I had previously forgotten, though haha): What if you saw somebody speeding and went to pull them over, but they wouldn't pull over. Or they did pull over, but after you being behind them for a while and/or they were quite a bit over the speed limit. A big reason for this could be something like wife/gf in labor, somebody about to pass away and you'll only get to see them this last time, something like that.
I think I got out what I was trying to say, but I'm not sure. Lemme know if I need to clarify anything.

Thanks again for this thread!

Ron380
07-23-2011, 03:18 PM
Ok I have more time today, so I looked up NC code on it. You ARE permitted to pass on the right per NC Code 20-150.1. Here you go:
[I]§ 20‑150.1. When passing on the right is permitted.
The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass upon the right of another vehicle only under the following conditions:
(1) When the vehicle overtaken is in a lane designated for left turns;
(2) Upon a street or highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width which have been marked for two or more lanes of moving vehicles in each direction and are not occupied by parked vehicles;


Wait... is it actually LEGAL to pass on the marked berms on the highway? :knockout:

AFPVet
07-23-2011, 04:45 PM
actually its 80 not 85
and most people don't drive 80

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/texas-moves-raise-speed-limit-85-mph/story?id=13319173

In North Dakota, a majority of people were driving 80 mph on the interstate.

Shots
07-23-2011, 06:57 PM
....... What if you saw somebody speeding and went to pull them over, but they wouldn't pull over. Or they did pull over, but after you being behind them for a while and/or they were quite a bit over the speed limit. A big reason for this could be something like wife/gf in labor, somebody about to pass away and you'll only get to see them this last time, something like that.....I've actually had that happen. There is a stretch of road that is 4 lanes (2 in each direction). There are many businesses, and the speed limit is 45. As you get to the edge of the business section the right lane ends, and about 1/2 mile later the speed limit goes up to 55. There was a 19 year old driving 86 MPH in the 45 zone, in the right lane passing multiple cars. I obviously stopped the car and asked him why he was driving so fast. He told me his girlfriend was at the hospital and about to give birth. I told him that what he was doing was VERY dangerous, and reminded him that he didn't want to leave his child fatherless the day it was born. Just think if one of those cars he was passing decided to move to the right lane to enter one of the businesses, or worse if a car pulled into the lane from one of the businesses. He and the other driver would likely have been killed. He got a speeding ticket that day, but I decided to be nice and not charge him with reckless op. Maybe some of you don't see that as being nice, but when you're nearly double the speed limit in a 45 zone (especially in a business zone) you have displayed a willful and wanton disregard for public safety.
As for a medical emergency. If you need to get to a hospital that fast, call a squad.
I have also stopped cars speeding for various reasons similar to your examples. I have taken the person's license, and allowed them to continue (after warning them to drive the rest of the way at the speed limit), and then met them at their destination to return their license and serve them their ticket. Is that cold? Maybe, but all the cases involved extreme speeds and reckless behavior. I am reasonable enough to let them continue but regardless of the reason for their actions, you can't allow extremely dangerous behavior to go with a warning. Besides if we did let it go, everyone would claim to be on their way to the hospital.
And yes I have given warnings for speed based on why the person was speeding. However those cases did NOT involve extreme speed, or reckless driving.

Wait... is it actually LEGAL to pass on the marked berms on the highway? :knockout:That section of law is from N.C., but ours is worded similarly. Keep in mind when it says "highway" they're not talking interstate. A highway is any road open to public use. More specifically it isn't saying you can jump over to the shoulder and pass a car at highway speed. What it's saying is that you can use the right lane to pass a slower car that is in the left lane, provided the right lane is not occupied by parked cars (which often occurs in cities with storefronts).

Binns
07-23-2011, 09:44 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/texas...ry?id=13319173

In North Dakota, a majority of people were driving 80 mph on the interstate.

wow sweet!
but still not to many people drive 80
maybe there is more people driving faster near big cities
but i was passing everyone going down to san antonio

i don't think it will change anything
people will still drive 75(like my dad), 65(sister), or 80-85
can't really see to many people blowing money out their tail pipe to to drive 90+
Driving 90 would suck and even more if you're in a truck

hskr
07-24-2011, 12:33 AM
Wait... is it actually LEGAL to pass on the marked berms on the highway? :knockout:
There are streets where the lane closest to the curb also doubles as a parking area. Drive in downtown Omaha, NE and you will see what I mean.

Ron380
07-24-2011, 05:32 AM
There are streets where the lane closest to the curb also doubles as a parking area. Drive in downtown Omaha, NE and you will see what I mean.

Yeah, we have the same thing here, too. It's just that the way that section is written DOES make it sound like you could pass someone on the paved berm on the interstate. No, I've never done that, and probably never will, either. It sure has been tempting sometimes, though. :beerchug:

Thanks, Shots, for the clarification, but "interstate" is not specified in the part you quoted. Somebody should probably clarify that section, methinks. ;)

1stDodge
07-24-2011, 05:59 AM
I honestly think that the current speed limits need revision. The nationwide 55 never worked. In fact, statistics show that there are fewer crashes with 65 mph limits as opposed to 55. I believe that we should actually raise the limit to a point where people will be less likely to break it. Texas—for instance—raised their speed limits to 85 on the interstates. If the speed limit is 65 or 70 for highway and 85 for interstate, there would be very few civil infractions for speed. Hell... even on the interstate I wouldn't think that I would need to go over 80 even if the limit was 85. So long as people knew that they wouldn't be able to get away with exceeding the limit over 1 mph (radar accuracy +/- 1 mph using corrected tuning forks).

Wasn't the nationwide 55 limit set because of the famous gas shortage back in the '70's and was supposed to "save" the country from foreign oil?

GLHS837
07-24-2011, 08:38 AM
Yep, sure was. Once it didnt matter anymore for that reason, they morphed it into a big safety thing, which was even more bogus. The worst part is that the fed blackmailed the states into it using the withholding of federal highway money if they didnt.

Shots
07-24-2011, 10:28 AM
..... Thanks, Shots, for the clarification, but "interstate" is not specified in the part you quoted. Somebody should probably clarify that section, methinks. ;)The definitions are found earlier in the state code, and covers such things as what a "highway" is, and what the "roadway" is, etc etc.

AFPVet
07-24-2011, 10:49 AM
Wasn't the nationwide 55 limit set because of the famous gas shortage back in the '70's and was supposed to "save" the country from foreign oil?

I believe so haha.

Shots
07-24-2011, 11:06 AM
Wasn't the nationwide 55 limit set because of the famous gas shortage back in the '70's and was supposed to "save" the country from foreign oil?That's what I've always heard. Guess that didn't work out.

Shots
07-25-2011, 07:53 PM
OK everyone I'm off to work the state fair. I'll try to respond to questions if I can do it brief, but otherwise I'll get back to you when I get back to my computer. It'll be about 2 weeks so bare with me. Keep the questions coming and/or the conversion rolling. I'll be when I can, and answer everything early Aug.

REDxEYES
07-25-2011, 08:03 PM
"You're my sister! You're my sister!" Joe Dirt came to mind when you said fair.

Take care Shots. See ya in a few weeks.

313Matt
07-28-2011, 11:03 AM
Here's a question for you...

In MI the law states you can only have your front windows tinted on the top 4" as dark as you want. Having said that, most cops don't care as long as it's not limo front or it's a state cop. My question to you is: If I roll my fronts down to only showing the 4" or rolled down completely, can the cop legally make me roll my windows up?

Thanks in advance

Fast50
07-28-2011, 02:21 PM
Not sure about MI, but in MO, Yes I can.

7th District
07-29-2011, 02:39 PM
Here's a question for you...

In MI the law states you can only have your front windows tinted on the top 4" as dark as you want. Having said that, most cops don't care as long as it's not limo front or it's a state cop. My question to you is: If I roll my fronts down to only showing the 4" or rolled down completely, can the cop legally make me roll my windows up?

Thanks in advance

During a lawful stop, a police officer in Michigan can conduct a vehicle inspection to check for defective equipment.


LINK: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-257-683

257.683 Driving or moving vehicle in unsafe condition; condition and adjustment of parts and equipment; stopping and inspecting vehicle; citation; training requirements as motor carrier enforcement officer; additional parts and accessories; exceptions; violation as civil infraction.
Sec. 683.

(1) A person shall not drive or move or the owner shall not cause or knowingly permit to be driven or moved on a highway a vehicle or combination of vehicles that is in such an unsafe condition as to endanger a person, or that does not contain those parts or is not at all times equipped with lamps and other equipment in proper condition and adjustment as required in sections 683 to 711, or that is equipped in a manner in violation of sections 683 to 711. A person shall not do an act forbidden or fail to perform an act required under sections 683 to 711.

(2) A police officer on reasonable grounds shown may stop a motor vehicle and inspect the motor vehicle, and if a defect in equipment is found, the officer may issue the driver a citation for a violation of a provision of sections 683 to 711.

(3) In order to be classified as a motor carrier enforcement officer, a police officer must have training equal to the minimum training requirements, including any annual training updates, established by the department of state police for an officer of the motor carrier division of the department of state police. A police officer who has received training equal to these minimum training requirements before the effective date of this section is considered a motor carrier enforcement officer for purposes of this act.

(4) Sections 683 to 711 shall not prohibit the use of additional parts and accessories on a vehicle that are not inconsistent with those sections.

(5) The provisions of sections 683 to 711 with respect to equipment on vehicles shall not apply to implements of husbandry, road machinery, road rollers, or farm tractors, except as specifically provided in sections 683 to 711.

(6) Except as otherwise provided in section 698 or 707d, a person who violates a provision of sections 683 to 711 with respect to equipment on vehicles is responsible for a civil infraction.

History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949 ;-- Am. 1978, Act 510, Eff. Aug. 1, 1979 ;-- Am. 1979, Act 66, Eff. Aug. 1, 1979 ;-- Am. 2000, Act 97, Imd. Eff. May 15, 2000 ;-- Am. 2005, Act 179, Imd. Eff. Oct. 20, 2005



Having said that, most cops don't care as long as it's not limo front or it's a state cop.

I have heard this many times over the years, in regards to tinted windows and state troopers. This may in part be due to MSP's policy of not allowing new troopers to be radar certified for their first year with the department. This encourages new troops to learn to enforce more parts of the motor vehicle code then just 628.


....

PlumCrazy1008
07-29-2011, 08:48 PM
Sorry I got to this thread late and after reading about 35 pages of it didn't see any of the questions I had - I apologize in advance if they were asked and I missed them:

If pursued by an unmarked vehicle (or not readily identifiable), especially at night, is it acceptable to reduce speed, turn on your 4-ways, and proceed to a well-populated, lighted area? I believe I read this once a long time ago and wanted to see if this would lead to greater issues with the officer or be acknowledged as an acceptable practice in the name of safety. There are crazies out there who like to play "cop" and in some cases I've heard have taken it to extremes (uniform, etc.).

Thanks for your willingness to protect and serve us. I've never received a moving violation despite being pulled over a couple times (once by an Ohio trooper who displayed impressive utmost professionalism and kindness while giving me a DUI "follow the pen" routine - I was stone sober, but when I saw his reflectors in the trees, I glanced at my speedo and went straight despite the road curving). I've been driving 25 years and try to always drive as if a police car is following me - this makes it easy whenever one pulls in behind me because I don't have to modify my driving. I've been bad in spurts though and my heart's gone into my throat.

I'm often asked if my car is a "cop magnet" and I've never had that impression.

Being in the local volunteer fire department (and living by the principle that if I don't get there safely, I cannot be of any assistance... in fact, I'd just become a second problem - I don't even use a "courtesy" light in my vehicles - I find it appropriate to cite someone driving wrecklessly under any circumstance - after all, what's the savings for the person getting to the hospital? A minute or two?), I know the local LEOs. One told me that he wouldn't bother chasing me in his Crown Vic, he'd just be waiting in my driveway. :) Another told me right after I got the Plum Crazy that they had a pool going to see who would "get me" first. Obviously no one won.

My impression is that the majority of LEOs on traffic patrol are most interested in everyone arriving safely at their destinations. Their role is to remove anything that might prevent that from happening. I thank you for doing that. If as many people died in plane crashes as what die on our highways every year, the public would be enraged at the airline industry, yet we all find it perfectly acceptable to violate clearly marked laws of the road.

Fascinating...

GLHS837
07-30-2011, 03:37 AM
Until Shots sees this, I'll give you what I learned on this over at officerforums. The general gist was that you are taking a chance with making the officer very irate, unless you know for sure the department in question has a hard policy on this. Some departments do, and your cool, some dont.

PlumCrazy1008
07-30-2011, 08:16 AM
Until Shots sees this, I'll give you what I learned on this over at officerforums. The general gist was that you are taking a chance with making the officer very irate, unless you know for sure the department in question has a hard policy on this. Some departments do, and your cool, some dont.

This is about the umarked cars at night? I imagine that it could happen, that the officer could become irate. I don't recall where I heard this but I remember when I was 14 or so reading an article about officers using Mustangs and Trans Ams and the concern about being pulled over at night.

We'll see what Shots has to say.

Another thought about this is that unmarked cars (at least in this area of SW PA) tend to be "LIT UP" something fierce. I'd be pretty assured that it's a real cruiser and not a crackpot. If it were a red revolving light in the windshield, I'd be suspicious. Especially because my tendency is more toward keeping it at speed and making sure my wheels stop rolling at stop signs.

I have a fire/police scanner in my pick-up and one day heard the announcement of an accident (no injuries) about a mile ahead. I saw the local cruiser approaching behind without emergency lights and pulled off into a lot along the road, knowing he was heading in that direction.

Reminds me of the day when I was on the boulevard by myself, cruise set to the speed limit, when a red Cavalier blew by me probably 10 or 15 over. About three or four seconds after that, I caught the unmarked Charger in my rearview with LEDs flashing from every concievable place. That car was absolutely wicked in the rearview (for the 2 or 3 seconds it was there). He ran down that Cavalier like it was standing still.

PlumCrazy1008
07-30-2011, 08:25 AM
Okay... came up with another question:

How much do you work with truck drivers on the highway? I know there's a perpetual cat and mouse game going on out there - there's quite an education to be had by driving across the country with the CB radio on. It can be helpful, also, knowing what lane is closed when traffic slows, etc. I guess some people actually listen to hear what mile markers the state police have been spotted at... I think it was Todd's "friend" who mentioned doing that :)

One morning, crossing Indiana, I passed a long train of semis, and just after I passed them, I heard them start talking about "Smokey" coming up alongside of them. One of the drivers said: "Good morning, Smokey Bear." and a professional voice responded: "Good morning, driver."

I imagine that despite the cat and mouse, you guys work together? Do you consider truck drivers to be "extra eyes" on the highway? My impression is that it's a mutual respect kind of deal going on with a few exceptions.

Another question: why in Ohio is the speed limit 55 for (I think it's combinations/vehicles over a certain GVW) and 65 for everyone else? I ask this because I've noticed that its seemed to create a habit for cars with Ohio plates to cruise the center lane.

Thanks again for your willingness to protect and serve, and for taking the time to address all the questions of us non-LEOs.

Ron380
07-30-2011, 03:52 PM
Another question: why in Ohio is the speed limit 55 for (I think it's combinations/vehicles over a certain GVW) and 65 for everyone else? I ask this because I've noticed that its seemed to create a habit for cars with Ohio plates to cruise the center lane.

Thanks again for your willingness to protect and serve, and for taking the time to address all the questions of us non-LEOs.

The split speed limit was (thankfully) finally repealed last year in OH! :banana: :bigthumb:

They do still have some split limits around certain cities, but for the interstates it's now even for all. YAY! The split limits drove EVERYONE crazy for years! On Page 3 of the OH Driver's Manual (the one you use to pass the driver's test) it clearly states, "The safest speed to travel is the speed of the traffic around you." (or something close to that) Then they demand traffic move at two different speeds?! :knockout:

The traffic flow is generally much better these days. :clap: