Getting my R/T to 400-425 Horses

[DutchMaster]

I've got the R/T with the 5.7 liter Hemi (350 horses). Im interested in trying to boost it up to about 400-425. I know I could have just got the bigger engine, but now Im wondering two things:

1- What the CHEAPEST way to increase the perfomance (to 400-425)?

2- What the BEST way to increase the perfomance (to 400-425)?

[Inferno Charger]

Cheapest and Best.......not usually found in the same sentence.

Supercharger would be the fastest way to get you to your goal but with that you will need better internals if you want to boost the car reliably.

Later

[DutchMaster]

Thats why I asked them as seperate questions.. Im looking for two answers here..

[GLHS837]

Cheapest = Nitrous oxide, and lots of it.

NOw, if you ever want to use the car again, that's NOT a good idea.

Best= Replace with SRT-8. Nothing else you can buy has the testing and engineering behind it that the 6.1 does.

[GoDaddy]

www.gsmotorsports.com look them up....and i agree cheap and more hp - don't match up. as far as internals, guys are cooking some hp up with their chargers and magnums and having no internal problems yet...maybe down the road...but i was once told that on this forum that the only way you will find out what the internals can do is by tapping them as hard as possible....of course this comes with a lot of money questions down the road

but the 6psi s/c kit is something like 5500....good luck and keep me posted....i am going s/c route b/c i just couldn't sit around and wait for the srt8 to come out....way too impatient!!! i will be very jealous of the srt guys, but i will try and catch up in about 8 months.

[Tricster]

Just read not too long ago, from an pretty reliable source, that the 5.7 Hemi doesn't get into internal wear problems, until you get to 500 RWHP. That is a whole lot of HP.

I believe that this is so. I know for a fact, that the 5.0 225 HP mustang engines were built to withstand upto 600 HP without doing anything to the bottom end.

Again I'm not an engineer, but am good at research, and if the Mustang can withstand upto 600 HP, I'd sure hope that my 5.7 could get to 500 without too much worry.


Tricster

[HEMIRT]

600 hp in a 5.0 engine will result in a 2 piece block...

[GoDaddy]

man 500hp would be more than enough....on second thought...mmmmm always a need for more power...seriously man at 500hp i would wreck everytime it rained!! but i still want it...hehe

[DAYTONA_R/T]

being the first car I will have owned for years.... (pickup man) 350 in my daytona is plenty for me... if I need more down the road... I will do the dynatech headers and some other simple mods....(Type R decals add 10HP each right? :wink: )

[GoDaddy]

type r decals add 10 hp...damn i wonder what the daytona decal adds...(grinning from ear to ear)

i am on my way to cai, headers....s/c is down the road but man i thought 350 would be enough also....i just keep wanting more....secretly i long to be peter pan and fly everywhere...ok sorry getting tired. i won't post anymore tonight.

[hodgeee]

Ok, first off, I have owned two mustangs with over 400hp, and both had to have to be built, anything much over 350hp on a stock 5.0 will crack the block in half, unless you have forged internals, and you put a main bolt girdle, and pushrod valley girdle in the 5.0 block. First hand experience and from all the mustang experts I have dealt with.

The new 4.6 is actually a stouter block for the ford, due to stronger block with reinforced main bolts , but is still limited.

GM 5.7 and 6.0 LS1 and LS6 motors are rigid, 4 bolt mains with 2 cross bolts on the caps, for a total of 6 bolt mains. They have a factory forged steel crank that is safe up to about 500whp, but will diminish the life of the motor. Not the best stuff inside but pretty damn good for factory, still pushing it!

Now our motors, have a cast steel crank, powder cast rods, and hyper pistons. The rods and pistons are good to maybe 400whp, but the stock crank is only assumably safe up to 400 to 425 crank hp! Common basics from most of the cars that I have owned and modded. Now the SRT8 comes with forged internals and a stronger reinforced block, and would probably be good to maybe 500whp, but is still questionable!?!?!?


400hp at the crank, Full exhaust, catback, and intake, and the right computer tune, might get it, but still probably not likely. Throw a cam and new stronger valve springs in there and that number should be pretty easy to make with the right computer tunning, that was what I was running in my 03 vette, and it made 340hp at the tires, with full exhaust intake, larger throttle body, and custom dyno tune.

[GoDaddy]

i like all the technical data...very good post...what i have seen magnum guys getting is around 310-320 with headers, cai and freeflow exhaust at the wheel. not bad at all so base hp is around 380-390 which sounds alot better...but with s/c add (they say 123 to the wheel) that puts the charger over the 400hp you are talking about so that brings alot of concern to my face....basically if i get the s/c i will need money in bank just in case?????

there is still the elusive programmer that could open up alot if we could tune the car also....maybe just wait and see if a programmer comes out and sqeek maybe close to 350-360 at the wheel???

[DAYTONA_R/T]

i like all the technical data...very good post...what i have seen magnum guys getting is around 310-320 with headers, cai and freeflow exhaust at the wheel. not bad at all so base hp is around 380-390 which sounds alot better...but with s/c add (they say 123 to the wheel) that puts the charger over the 400hp you are talking about so that brings alot of concern to my face....basically if i get the s/c i will need money in bank just in case?????

there is still the elusive programmer that could open up alot if we could tune the car also....maybe just wait and see if a programmer comes out and sqeek maybe close to 350-360 at the wheel???

ummmm

i won't post anymore tonight.
http://avowners.com/forum/smileys/smiley56.gif http://avowners.com/forum/smileys/smiley41.gif :cool:

[GoDaddy]

aahhhh i posted that before i had made the other post...and this post was made before that one b/c i have esp and knew i would have to post these prior to that last post..... :whistle:

[DAYTONA_R/T]

aahhhh i posted that before i had made the other post...and this post was made before that one b/c i have esp and knew i would have to post these prior to that last post..... :whistle:

http://avowners.com/forum/smileys/smiley53.gif




(can you tell I am bored and just having fun with smilies? :whistle: )

[GoDaddy]

yup very funny :confused: i keep searching around this damn forum like some secret will magically pop up and my car has 500hp instant...is this a common problem amongst us chagerforum guys or i am a loner on this one?

[Thunderkiss]

yup very funny :confused: i keep searching around this damn forum like some secret will magically pop up and my car has 500hp instant...is this a common problem amongst us chagerforum guys or i am a loner on this one?

I email Hypertech, Diablo, Superchips once a week and it is like it isn't even a thought to them.

With all the Mags, 300C's and Chargers on the road you would think someone would have cracked the code in January of this year the latest :angry:

[hodgeee]

Yes, GSmotorsports is running 6lbs of intercooled boost and making about 450 on the stock block, but then again they are running a centrifugal charger, which adds boost and power as the rpms climb. Much less strain on the motor, but still in the questionable levels. I had called them and asked about how the durability is going, with no problems so far, but then again, I ran about 11000 miles on my supercharged mustang, making about 400hp when finally one day getting on it the block cracked right down the middle. Cost me about $3500 to get a new block and forged internals and block girdles, for a short block build. Then I ran another 60,000 miles with that setup and more boost, making about 450hp, with no problems at all, until the car got totalled by a red light runner.

Even though the crank is cast, it maybe stronger than expected due to being a 5.7 crank, compared to a 5.0 crank. But on my second mustang I put a 347 stroker kit in that block, and when I compared the cranks, it didn't look any beefier than the stock crank. The new crank I used was a Eagle forged 5.7 crank cut down to a 5.4 throw crank, and larger pistons to get my 347cubes. So I don't know if this will be a problem, but when asking most engine builders, they say, "cast is cast" as if they are pretty much the same as strength goes. Now the argument is generally then how does a 460 or 400 crank put out 400plus hp without breaking. Well I say much larger cranks when looking at them. I have seen 600hp applications on 450cube and larger cranks that were cast, but they are like twice as thick!

Again when asking GS about the strength, they kind of give you that silent answer on the phone like they don't know themselfs for sure! Just like when I asked if the trannies could handle this power, they gave me the "Well, none have blown out so far!" answer.

Personally I am leaving it at Intake, Exhaust, and Headers, leaving the rest alone, if I could have afforded the SRT, I would have gotten that for sure. I haven't the headers yet, but the K&N intake, and Flowmaster exhaust gave a nice jump off the line, and it feels like it pulls MUCH stronger from mine and my friends seat of the pants dyno's! When at 4000miles and stock I could barely peel out in 80degree weather, maybe a foot of rubber when stomping on it. Now it is average 103 degrees here in Vegas, and it leaves a nice set of 10' strips on the ground now. When I can afford it I am getting the Dynamax headers, same as I had on my vette, and what I difference they made on the vette, and that had a pretty freeflowing stock exhaust, and I have heard people stating getting almost 40hp from them on the dodge. I had 299whp on my vette when stock, and after intake, exhaust and header, and computer tune, I was putting down 341whp. that was about a 50hp gain overall, so I believe that the same setup on the Dodge will get it to 390 to 400 crank hp, normally aspirated, which is less strainfull on the engine internals and drivetrain. I believe that this should hold up to the long run also, and for most people that would definately be enough!

[Inferno Charger]

You can never make too much power.......or at least that is what I have heard anyway. Honestly I have a limit to as far as I will go now that I have one modified car and one mild bolt on car under my belt. I seriously want a Supercharger for my future R/T but when it comes down to it I am getting agitated with the junk currently happening with my modified car so I know that the next big project car will not be that over the top for sure. I really think I could live with a 300+ rwhp daily driver as opposed to a 240+ fwhp heavily modified non-daily driver that makes you question weather or not today is gonna be the day it decides it will leave your happy ass on the side of the road........so I am gonna go all motor up to a point where I have to start jacking with the internals and heads. Intake, Exhaust, Headers, Cam, and Computer Programmer are probably gonna be the limit as far as bolt-ons go.

Later

[hodgeee]

I hear you brother, I have blown too many rear diffs, transmissions, driveshafts, axle shafts, clutches, and engines, and spent countless amounts of money fixing things, that should have, would have, been garunteed to have been strong enought to handle the power.

I have probably wasted over $50,000 in the last 10 years on fixing things that modifications have blown, that I was told would handle things no problem. I just blew a tranny in a STI, that cost $5000 to fix cause it was japanees made. The tranny I blew in the Vette, with a custom rebuild to handle 600hp only cost $1700, and $700 of that was cause the labor on removing the rear suspension and torque tube just to get the tranmission off of the car to work on. Then I cracked the rear diff housing by eliminating the torque management, that was there to protect the diff from craking by reducing power off the line, then I replaced the torque converter cause the stock unit could not handle 400hp, bending the vanes in the converter. I was told that 450hp was safe on that.

Blew rear end on Supercharged tundra, blew transmission on my Maxima SE, and the lists just keep going on. It took $10,000 in mods to my 88Mustang to actually handle the 450hp in the car. Custom built engine, tranny swap, heavy drive shaft, built rear diff, body reinforcements, suspension mods to handle the power, plus clutch, rims and tires to get the power to the ground. I tell you, for now on, when I want a 450hp car, I will buy one that already has it, like the SRT8, or the new cobra coming out!

Bolt on basic mods is my limit now a days!

[DashingMax]

WOW!! You've been through a lot and owned some really fast cars!!

I used to own a Stillen supercharged Maxima. Didn't blow anything but played it safe with stock boost & beefier ACT clutch.

Cheers!

[Inferno Charger]

I hear you brother, I have blown too many rear diffs, transmissions, driveshafts, axle shafts, clutches, and engines, and spent countless amounts of money fixing things, that should have, would have, been garunteed to have been strong enought to handle the power.

I have probably wasted over $50,000 in the last 10 years on fixing things that modifications have blown, that I was told would handle things no problem. I just blew a tranny in a STI, that cost $5000 to fix cause it was japanees made. The tranny I blew in the Vette, with a custom rebuild to handle 600hp only cost $1700, and $700 of that was cause the labor on removing the rear suspension and torque tube just to get the tranmission off of the car to work on. Then I cracked the rear diff housing by eliminating the torque management, that was there to protect the diff from craking by reducing power off the line, then I replaced the torque converter cause the stock unit could not handle 400hp, bending the vanes in the converter. I was told that 450hp was safe on that.

Blew rear end on Supercharged tundra, blew transmission on my Maxima SE, and the lists just keep going on. It took $10,000 in mods to my 88Mustang to actually handle the 450hp in the car. Custom built engine, tranny swap, heavy drive shaft, built rear diff, body reinforcements, suspension mods to handle the power, plus clutch, rims and tires to get the power to the ground. I tell you, for now on, when I want a 450hp car, I will buy one that already has it, like the SRT8, or the new cobra coming out!

Bolt on basic mods is my limit now a days!

Obviously you have learned from the school of hard knocks. The scary thing is my modified car has about $30K sunk into it and hasn't blown anything up but it is not running right and actually hasn't been for the past 4 years. So I am hanging it up so I can get the Charger, enjoy the Charger, and just mildly modify the Charger within reason.

Later

[radguy]

I hear you brother, I have blown too many rear diffs, transmissions, driveshafts, axle shafts, clutches, and engines, and spent countless amounts of money fixing things, that should have, would have, been garunteed to have been strong enought to handle the power.

I have probably wasted over $50,000 in the last 10 years on fixing things that modifications have blown, that I was told would handle things no problem. I just blew a tranny in a STI, that cost $5000 to fix cause it was japanees made. The tranny I blew in the Vette, with a custom rebuild to handle 600hp only cost $1700, and $700 of that was cause the labor on removing the rear suspension and torque tube just to get the tranmission off of the car to work on. Then I cracked the rear diff housing by eliminating the torque management, that was there to protect the diff from craking by reducing power off the line, then I replaced the torque converter cause the stock unit could not handle 400hp, bending the vanes in the converter. I was told that 450hp was safe on that.

Blew rear end on Supercharged tundra, blew transmission on my Maxima SE, and the lists just keep going on. It took $10,000 in mods to my 88Mustang to actually handle the 450hp in the car. Custom built engine, tranny swap, heavy drive shaft, built rear diff, body reinforcements, suspension mods to handle the power, plus clutch, rims and tires to get the power to the ground. I tell you, for now on, when I want a 450hp car, I will buy one that already has it, like the SRT8, or the new cobra coming out!

Bolt on basic mods is my limit now a days!
You need a better tuner. I have had nine late model mustangs with two making over 500 hp on the stock bottom end. The last one I tuned was a 93 lx notch with a 331ci and a novi 2000. The only motors that I have ever damaged where do to a poor tune. With a propper tune the hemi should have no problem handling 500 hp.
There is only one thing to remember when modding, any powertrain mod will diminish long term durability. I you want to play you have to be willing to pay.

[Ron Mexico]

Obviously you have learned from the school of hard knocks. The scary thing is my modified car has about $30K sunk into it and hasn't blown anything up but it is not running right and actually hasn't been for the past 4 years. So I am hanging it up so I can get the Charger, enjoy the Charger, and just mildly modify the Charger within reason.

Later

I too am selling my Jeep that doesn't run the way I want it anymore. It will lift the "35 front tires right off the ground but with a 50/50 risk of twisting the rear axle right off. It has happened 3 times. Everyone told me to get a new axle (which is impossible to find). So after sinking in for headers, supercharger, ignitions, exhaust, etc... I just don't like it anymore and it has become a pain. I have stories about the supercharger. So I will just slightly mod this Charger and sit back and cruise. With a little fun ofcourse.

[Inferno Charger]

So I will just slightly mod this Charger and sit back and cruise. With a little fun ofcourse.

Same here.....modify with-in reason ofcourse and still have fun playing with cars :) The days of me going completely nuts and modifying to the point of not being able to drive the car and enjoy it is essentially over.

Later

[GoDaddy]

what is slightly modified? just the cai, headers, exhaust? i am curious as to what you guys want to do.

[DAYTONA_R/T]

I have never left a vehicle alone.... hell I have done 56 mods on my Avalanche.... and everytime you do a mod.... you gotta do 2 more to make things how they should.... IE: installed body lift, had to go to e-fans to keep the engine cool with new rad/grill placement... the e-fans drew more power, which required I go to a larger alternator... and a dual battery system.... and the of course I needed new rims and tires... LOL...

My Daytona will get tint, auto headlights, and hood shocks..... possibly an MSD light....but that will be the end of it.... :)

[bstowers]

My Daytona will get tint, auto headlights, and hood shocks..... possibly an MSD light....but that will be the end of it.... :)

Should we all meet back here in this thread a year from now? :whistle:

[Inferno Charger]

Yeah but you know we say one thing and just like kiddies at the ice cream truck we have to have atleast one of everything the dude has behind the counter. Yeah I just want a plain ice cream......with a $h!t load of that other stuff piled on there since I can't even go without modifying anything including my ice cream........ :wink:

[hodgeee]

Hell, I have ruined three cars that I used to love by overdoing it, and then having problems with alignments, or the suspension bottoming out, or the ride going to crap. I mostly do performance modifications, but I have to admit, I have run into too many claims of people saying that their product will do this and that and you will not have problems. I also have had people including on this thread, talk about 500hp on stock blocks :embarrese with no problems. Trust me I have tried and failed, and have seen a hundred others fail the same way. If you are going to run a 500hp car, and drive it like a 500hp car, almost every detail needs to be fixed to appropriately handle the power, rims, tires, bearings, suspension components, shocks, springs, bushings, frame and body, engine, tranny, driveshaft, diffs, axles, mounting points, roll cages! If you baby the vehicle and barely get on it, sure it will last, but who the hell, creates a 500 hp car so that you can just get on it once or twice a week!????? Maybe that is why I have blown several engines, trannies, and suspension components!

Headers, catback, intake, swaybars, and some better tires, maybe some bilstein shocks. These for the most part are your basic mods, that can be done at home, and should not void your warrenty! Hell, with these mods and a little computer tuning I have turn 15 second 1/4mile cars into 13.8 1/4 mile cars.

I talked to two 300c owners, that have run 14.7 1/4 mile time at the LV speedway, and I had recently pulled a 14.1 second run. I am sure it is my performance mods that made the difference.

Oh and lastly, Tybrne was right, I ordered from him a Jet stage 2 chip, and man what a difference. I concluded that the chip gave me the best bang for the buck, and it only cost me $2 more to fill my tank using super. Throttle response and engine response have picked up nicely. The off idle throttle stomp gives instant tire spin now, the shift firmness is apparent and it shifts faster, and lastly it shifts at about 5800 to 6000rpms now where it used to shift at 5400 to 5600rpms. It felt like the extra rpms help a little bit when running from a standstill, especially on the 1 to 2 shift!

[Of The Moonlight]

i think with this car, it sorta isnt much of an option, but one way to "increase" power is to simply remove weight. from engine covers to splash guards to fender liners to under dash panels, hell, to SEATS! you can take it all out and really make some gains just by putting the car on a diet. there's a syclone owner out there that took something crazy like 1000+lbs off his ride just by removing unwanted components. all that weight saving can translate into serious power gains-without causing any damage to engine internals and whatnot. as i said though, this is kind of a classy car and seeing the interior stripped is kinda....yeah. but there are other areas too, such as carbon fiber body parts like hoods and even drive shafts.

should i (god willing) aquire one of these cars, i'd just stick with the basics-intake/exhaust mods and suspension mods. at 22 i already decided years ago my street racing days are over, i dont have anything to prove to anybody, i just want a car thats really fun to drive and can impress the ocasional passenger.

[Inferno Charger]

should i (god willing) aquire one of these cars, i'd just stick with the basics-intake/exhaust mods and suspension mods. at 22 i already decided years ago my street racing days are over, i dont have anything to prove to anybody, i just want a car thats really fun to drive and can impress the ocasional passenger.

Well put brother......

22 and you came to that conclusion already? Damn it took me until 25 to start coming to that realization and finally at 27 my ideas on a performance car and modifications got seriously changed now that the Charger is here.

[needasrt4]

weight reduction does not in an way increase power at the motor, it just allows you to more effectively use the power you already have. And decreasing rotating mass (ie lighter wheels and tires) will only allow you to convert more crank hp to wheel hp, it does not increase HP in any way.

[GLHS837]

one way to "increase" power is to simply remove weight.

Need, moon is aware of that, hence the quotation mark arounds increase.

[RonRacer]

should i (god willing) aquire one of these cars, i'd just stick with the basics-intake/exhaust mods and suspension mods. at 22 i already decided years ago my street racing days are over, i dont have anything to prove to anybody, i just want a car thats really fun to drive and can impress the ocasional passenger.

Well put brother......

22 and you came to that conclusion already? Damn it took me until 25 to start coming to that realization and finally at 27 my ideas on a performance car and modifications got seriously changed now that the Charger is here.

24YEARS OLD...10TICKETS(OVER 7 STATES)...3TIMES IN JAIL...AND AINT REALIZED SH!T!! :monster:

[shanec]

Hawdy from the other side of the planet.

Just been a readin whats going on back home. I was back for a week in August and bought my little women a new Charger R/T for her B-day. Ran web checks on all the dealers in the state of Texas and found a one of a kind. She was sure happy. She traded her 03 Eclipse fully loaded for a dodge gem. Now it sets next to our other Intrepid R/T modified.

Sorry to ramble. Any howz, the best bang for your buck right now is a company out of Memphis ( www.compcams.com) that modified 3 different cams specifically for the 5.7L Hemi on a charger. The top of the line cam they make gives a boost of 61HP. And thats without modifing any of the factory settings. Check out the article on the in Mopar Action Mag. I'll get around to the mod sometime when I get back. Good luck!!!

[Inferno Charger]

24YEARS OLD...10TICKETS(OVER 7 STATES)...3TIMES IN JAIL...AND AINT REALIZED SH!T!! :monster:

Congratulations

[RonRacer]

Congratulations
do i detect a little sarcasms in you voice :plain:

[Inferno Charger]

do i detect a little sarcasms in you voice :plain:

Nope. No sarcasm here ;) :whistle: :whistle:

[RonRacer]

I'm just saying, whats the point in drooling over a 400hp car if you're gonna go the speed limit? :mad:

[RonRacer]

That wasn't surpose to be an angry face.?? itwas ment to be a crazy face.(ekool thats your que)

[my06chargerr/tandse]

i bought the supercharger for my r/t from gsmotorsport and its in the mail now ill keep u posted

[GoDaddy]

i bought the supercharger for my r/t from gsmotorsport and its in the mail now ill keep u posted

are you doing the dynatech headers also? keep us posted, not many have ventured into the s/c area yet....me it is all about money. when i get the money the s/c will go in. congrats on your purchase.....123rwhp isn't any thing to laugh at.....srt8...who needs a stinking srt8?! lol

[GLHS837]

Me:) I do:)

[GoDaddy]

hey if i had the extra 5000 grand and the patience to wait a few more months i would have one too, but alas i am a poor man with absolutely no patience....when i see i must have....i saw the silver steal r/t and she could have been bare bones and i would have bought it!!!!

but glhs837 when it is all said and done i will probably spend more than that 5000 on mods....mmmmm exhaust......cai......lip, spoiler, air diffuser, srt8 hood.....headers......s/c....ok maybe i should have just waited.....

[mtbatol]

123rwhp isn't any thing to laugh at.....srt8...who needs a stinking srt8?! lol

indeed, just gimmie a (black) r/t, a s/c with other few engine mods, and the SRT8 hood. that would be enough to make it the most badass of chargers in the city ^_^
The infinity & lexus drivers shall phear me!!! ^( ^o^ )^