Better start buying cans of refrigerant again!

[370 HEMI]

Well their at it again I see. The global sedition is after our refrigerants.

They want to ban HFC-134A now in Europe and then the US. HFC-134a was supposed to be the "globally friendly alternative", and now they are after it and wanting Carbon Dioxide-R 744. or HFO-1234yf.

The new refrigerants....funny thing... will not be compatible with our systems or may work with our systems but who knows If they decide CO2 R744 our systems will have to be totally changed. AGAIN.

Glad I have 50 lbs of R-12 in the basement before they got to it.

Now it looks like I will have to buy a couple 50 lb cylinders of HFC-134A before they ban that too.

Give me a break!!:rolleyes2:

Brian

http://www.mxcom.net/hearst/motor/air/004/CutWard2009_05AC.pdf

[NightMare R/T]

im stupid and dont know what any of that ment???

[mnunes]

Next they're going to force everyone to hold their breath to prevent any more CO2 from getting into the atmosphere. :rolleyes:

[FinallyCharged]

ugh ive had enough of this...lol..i had to take the EPA test to be able to handle freeones so im done with HFCs and HCFCs lol

[Part Deux]

When does the patent expire on 134a? Funny thing, the patent expired on R11, at the same time the patent owner (Dow) discovered it was destroying the ozone. It's never been explained to me how a heavier then air substance, magically floats above the stratosphere and then chemically alters the ozone layer.

[hskr]

I'm just wondering why they'd even consider switching to CO2 when it's one of the worst green house gases.

[hemiitis]

Not again in one lifetime...

[370 HEMI]

When does the patent expire on 134a? Funny thing, the patent expired on R11, at the same time the patent owner (Dow) discovered it was destroying the ozone. It's never been explained to me how a heavier then air substance, magically floats above the stratosphere and then chemically alters the ozone layer.

The belief was that the R-12 Dichloro difluoro Methane converted to Chlorine Monoxide. One Chlorine Monoxide molecule would eat hundreds of thousands of ozone atoms in a fish tank and that was supposed to demonstrate how the ozone layer was being thinned and destroyed by our Chloro Fluoro Carbons.

Complete BS. Over 99% of the Chlorine Monoxide that is in the atmosphere comes from active volcanos. So we need to legislate them out of existance......all 565 that spew hundreds of thousands of metric tonnes of the stuff.

However, the Sun produces UVA and UVB. UVA is trapped in the ozone layer and combines to produce oxygen and falls into our atmosphere. UVB passes through the ozone layer and combines with oxygen to produce ozone. So it is ozone to oxygen...oxygen to ozone and back and forth over and over and over every day.

This is just another way for extreme environmentalism to control our lives. I have had many discussions with these types and when I can prove that what they are saying logically is BS, they get very angry that I am disagreeing with them and they always say....."well, this is the way we are going, the regulations are coming regardless of the public dialogue, so you better get with the program!!" Utopian Socialists and Marxists the bunch.:slap:

Brian

[mojo]

The belief was that the R-12 Dichloro difluoro Methane converted to Chlorine Monoxide. One Chlorine Monoxide molecule would eat hundreds of thousands of ozone atoms in a fish tank and that was supposed to demonstrate how the ozone layer was being thinned and destroyed by our Chloro Fluoro Carbons.

Complete BS. Over 99% of the Chlorine Monoxide that is in the atmosphere comes from active volcanos. So we need to legislate them out of existance......all 565 that spew hundreds of thousands of metric tonnes of the stuff.

However, the Sun produces UVA and UVB. UVA is trapped in the ozone layer and combines to produce oxygen and falls into our atmosphere. UVB passes through the ozone layer and combines with oxygen to produce ozone. So it is ozone to oxygen...oxygen to ozone and back and forth over and over and over every day.

This is just another way for extreme environmentalism to control our lives. I have had many discussions with these types and when I can prove that what they are saying logically is BS, they get very angry that I am disagreeing with them and they always say....."well, this is the way we are going, the regulations are coming regardless of the public dialogue, so you better get with the program!!" Utopian Socialists and Marxists the bunch.:slap:

Brian

But aren't you in the business of selling oils and stuff? You're obviously the evil one.:D

[370 HEMI]

But aren't you in the business of selling oils and stuff? You're obviously the evil one.:D

Rule 1 - I am in business...businesses are bad examples of capitalism which we need to regulate out of existance and kill the little guy with the great ideas.

Selling must mean that I am lying if my mouth is open..selling goes back to capitalism. see rule 1

Oils and fuel products.....bad for environment promoting car use and damaging the planet. I even make products for old cars of the 1960s doubly bad!

Actually, if everyone in this country used our oils and our fuel products for both gasoline and Diesel, and just changed their oils at the 10k mileage on gasoline engines and 15k for diesels, we could cut 65 days of imported oil in this country.

Doing nothing else would create that. BUT I would be rich beyond avarice.

Rich is another problem.....see rule 1

I guess I am doomed. :rolleyes2:

Brian

[hemiitis]

This is just another way for extreme environmentalism to control our lives. I have had many discussions with these types and when I can prove that what they are saying logically is BS, they get very angry that I am disagreeing with them and they always say....."well, this is the way we are going, the regulations are coming regardless of the public dialogue, so you better get with the program!!" Utopian Socialists and Marxists the bunch.:slap:

Brian
My experience, too! Brian, they only become hostile in the light of the truth. :lol30:

[Gladiator]

Brian are you planning global domination again? :ninja:

[zoomzoom1]

Brian are you planning global domination again? :ninja:

bwahahahahahah..Only if he can upgrade his car!!!!:biggrinjester:

[370 HEMI]

My experience, too! Brian, they only become hostile in the light of the truth. :lol30:

Hemiitis,

Well said!! They are all for brotherhood and tolerance........of their viewpoints ONLY! If we disagree we are belligerant!:confused:

Brian.

[370 HEMI]

Brian are you planning global domination again? :ninja:

Yea, when the price of fuel goes up again.

When it was 4.79 a gallon for Diesel, I was living large!! People were tripping over themselves to have us help them.

Now it is a slower more orderly discussion before they purchase from us.

This is ok too.

Brian
440-821-9040

[Part Deux]

Rule 1 - I am in business...businesses are bad

I guess I am doomed. :rolleyes2:

Brian

Bad Bad Business owner :)

I'm watching an implosion in our local politics, with an elected official that is hell bent on forcing his way on three communities. Hundreds and hundreds of people have spoken, but he's going to screw things up to get his way. We get to suffer from yet another recall, because this mouth breathing knuckle dragging uneducated yahoo won't listen to advice. And have to put up with the consequences of his actions for what is likely to be years.
[/rant off]

[wickedchargerrt]

Well their at it again I see. The global sedition is after our refrigerants.

They want to ban HFC-134A now in Europe and then the US. HFC-134a was supposed to be the "globally friendly alternative", and now they are after it and wanting Carbon Dioxide-R 744. or HFO-1234yf.

The new refrigerants....funny thing... will not be compatible with our systems or may work with our systems but who knows If they decide CO2 R744 our systems will have to be totally changed. AGAIN.

Glad I have 50 lbs of R-12 in the basement before they got to it.

Now it looks like I will have to buy a couple 50 lb cylinders of HFC-134A before they ban that too.

Give me a break!!:rolleyes2:

Brian

http://www.mxcom.net/hearst/motor/air/004/CutWard2009_05AC.pdf

I pissed a customer off big time today. They came in for a a/c performance problem. I found obvious dye leaks around the back of the compressor pulley (shaft seal leak) and around the inner seal area. Well, with ford, and most manufactures, if you replace the compressor the reciever dryer/accumulator needs to be replaced too. So after a 700 dollar bill the customer refused the services and wanted his car back. We said ok, but as soon as nick pulls the remaining refrigerant out of the system. (he had about 3 oz out of 2lb 2 oz system and was cooling only 3 degrees cooler than vent temp)
The customer flipped the OWIEWE out. Told me it was his freon and i didnt have a right to it. I told him, its a legal obligation that i have to pull every bit of the freon out of the car if its leaking prior to release to the customer. Federal law. Giggled to myself and walked off. He was a bit mad. Heard him flipping out to the manager for about an hour :grin: Nothing makes me happier then spreading a bad mood :grin:
Anyway, the customer decided with 104 degree temps, to go ahead and let me fix it :bigthumb:
That really doesn t have anything to do with your thread but i thought i'd share :grin:

im stupid and dont know what any of that ment???
c is for cookie and thats good enough for you? :biggrin:

Next they're going to force everyone to hold their breath to prevent any more CO2 from getting into the atmosphere. :rolleyes:

You know about the industry changing the emissions standards here in the next few years dont ya?
For those of you that dont a brief:
We all know co2 has some harmful effects to the enviroment, however in the 70's (the years cats came out on cars) the epa wanted co2 to be the primary pollutant out of the car. Our cars make noX, co, co2, o2, and one other i forgot.
noX is controlled by egr
CO is controlled by the cats and the cats basically throw oxygen at CO and make it co2.

Well just recently co2 got labeled by the epa as a "green house contributing gas" which means they are gonna crack down on it huge even though they wanted it to be a cars byproduct 30 years ago. So now cats are gonna be worthless because they store o2 and make co into co2. Now if cars cant produce co or co2, whats next?


When will the r134 retrofits gonna hit the market? :mad:

[370 HEMI]

I pissed a customer off big time today. They came in for a a/c performance problem. I found obvious dye leaks around the back of the compressor pulley (shaft seal leak) and around the inner seal area. Well, with ford, and most manufactures, if you replace the compressor the reciever dryer/accumulator needs to be replaced too. So after a 700 dollar bill the customer refused the services and wanted his car back. We said ok, but as soon as nick pulls the remaining refrigerant out of the system. (he had about 3 oz out of 2lb 2 oz system and was cooling only 3 degrees cooler than vent temp)
The customer flipped the OWIEWE out. Told me it was his freon and i didnt have a right to it. I told him, its a legal obligation that i have to pull every bit of the freon out of the car if its leaking prior to release to the customer. Federal law. Giggled to myself and walked off. He was a bit mad. Heard him flipping out to the manager for about an hour :grin: Nothing makes me happier then spreading a bad mood :grin:
Anyway, the customer decided with 104 degree temps, to go ahead and let me fix it :bigthumb:
That really doesn t have anything to do with your thread but i thought i'd share :grin:


c is for cookie and thats good enough for you? :biggrin:



You know about the industry changing the emissions standards here in the next few years dont ya?
For those of you that dont a brief:
We all know co2 has some harmful effects to the enviroment, however in the 70's (the years cats came out on cars) the epa wanted co2 to be the primary pollutant out of the car. Our cars make noX, co, co2, o2, and one other i forgot.
noX is controlled by egr
CO is controlled by the cats and the cats basically throw oxygen at CO and make it co2.

Well just recently co2 got labeled by the epa as a "green house contributing gas" which means they are gonna crack down on it huge even though they wanted it to be a cars byproduct 30 years ago. So now cats are gonna be worthless because they store o2 and make co into co2. Now if cars cant produce co or co2, whats next?


When will the r134 retrofits gonna hit the market? :mad:

Nothing like spreading a bad mood around... Funny!!

To answer your question of what's next.

From the no more hemi thread:

Same reason that I got my 06 SRT8. I watched the last muscle car era die....1966 to 1971 and within 7 years we were driving Omnis and Horizons with 1.6 liter engines. Within 9 years, everything was Kcars with 2.2L 4 cylinders.

I forsee it the same now....2006 to 2011 and done maybe 2010. I don't know.

However, a big piece of legislation that we all need to be aware of is the April 9th ruling that gives the EPA CO2 as a harmful emittant that poses a "threat" to public health and safety. Since that time, there was comment on the ruling until June 9th.

Every CO2 emitting source will be evaluated and categorized for impact and then a second ruling on cap and trade will be established.

All this may sound like gobilty gook but this is what it ultimately means:

Every gallon of gasoline emits 19.4 lbs of CO2 into the atmosphere. There is no way to get around this (ACES IV for gasoline can adjust a little bit maybe 8% off this but not significantly different)

Unlike Hydrocarbons (HC) or Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) or Carbon Monoxide (CO) which can be tuned out and filtered/chemically changed (catalytic converters which change CO into CO2) The CO2 that is emitted is pretty static.

So all the government has to do is look at our cars and do this calculation:

19.4 lbs of CO2 with a 20 mpg car going 15,000 miles WILL emit...6.6 metric tons of CO2.

(15,000 miles divided by 20 mpg = 750 gallons of fuel x 19.4 = 14,550 lbs of CO2 yearly. 14,550 divided by 2204 (metric ton) = 6.6 tons of CO2 per year.)

What they would do is make a ruling that would say maximum emissions of passenger vehicles will not exceed 3.5 metric tons per year and thats the end plain and simple.

3.5 metric tons would equate to a little over 37 miles per gallon per passenger car.

Basically we need to be happy we got what we got when we got it because there really are black clouds on the horizon for our Hemi engines.

Grandfathered is a great thing!!!

Not political, just part of what I do for a living and know what is coming.:rolleyes2:

Thanks
Brian
440-821-9040

[Steelborn1]

You know we, as citizens, could always supplant our federal government like we are supposed to do when they stop serving us! Kind of like erasing the board and starting over. I mean, according to the Constitution, that is actually our responsibility as citizens of the United States. Just thought I would throw that out there.

[wickedchargerrt]

Thats why ford is gonna saab everything up with turbos. Taurus, fusion and focus with turbos. Less emissions, better mileage when you dont use them. V6's with v8 power when needed. I'm glad someone is still playing to both performance and mpg crowds. I dont think chrysler had any say in crap lately as they've switched ownership so many times they cant spend 2 years with one idea without someone else coming in and changing everything

[BrianG]

Oh Nick quit trying to act like u know what your talking about..hahhahaha :beerchug:

[a14umbra]

Okay, I'm really trying hard to figure something out. In the 70's (yes, I'm that old) there was this big scare by "Leading Scientists" that we were entering a new ice age. They said we need to cover the polar ice caps to partly melt them. Jump ahead a couple of decades or so and "Leading Scientists" are saying that we have global warming and man is causing it. I don't know who these scientists are, but all meteorologists I've heard disagree.
Next thing you know, temperatures are going back down, and the "scientists" declare it's not global warming, it's global climate change. "Did I say my dog ate my homework? I meant I left it at home."

When you point out that global climate change is a natural known phenomenon that's been going on forever, they throw up some scary charts.
Problem is, these charts are not made up from real data. These charts are using data made up by the same scientists formulas seeded by what little real data we currently have. I remember learning this technique in High School. It was called "draw the curve, then plot the points".
Plus, when you look at there charts, it's relatively easy to legitimately interpret the same data a totally different way.
If I were shopping for a car and the salesman used tactics like this, I'd be moving on to the next dealer. Yet millions buy into it.

Is it just the power of the internet and media? I just don't get it.

I'm all for treating the environment better. That's one of the reasons that I carpool. But I'm not going to be led around by these scare tactics that are making a lot of people a lot of money.

[Part Deux]

Mike, have you ever seen the temperature sensors that are leading the charge for the global warming. A huge percentage do not meet minor control standards. The worst offender I saw was a thermometer on a roof, right above an HVAC unit. Yep, that's going to show an accurate temperature.

I know we seem to stay cooler a lot longer then I remember growing up with the winters being colder. But, that also does not explain the impact the Polar regions are dealing with.

[wickedchargerrt]

Not trying to get into a global warming debate but seeing the glaciers melt up on the poles without rebuilding in the winter is a huge sign to me. Now i'm not a scientist nor did i stay at a holiday inn express but i know the damage that heat (especially that radiating off the ocean) does to create storms and terrible natural disasters. A example of this for those that dont know is the gulf of mexico. How often do people see hurricanes blow up in severity on the gulf after going through the cuba area? thats cause the gulf is hotter than the atlantic and hot air rising into the storms accelerates them.
I know i'm talking to people that , on this thread, are all super intelligent and know all about this basic stuff but i'm assuming others out there are reading it too.
Whether or not there is global warming and what co2 does to it , i dunno, but i do know our effect on weather and what humans do to change and alter weather patterns.

Now also mike, it depends on what year your talking about on some weather events. The el nino/la nina trade winds play a major part in climate around our area and every three years we get more damaging storms because of them. 2000, 03, 97, 06, and this is gonna be another year but i havent seen/heard of much yet.
http://www.elnino.noaa.gov/lanina_new_faq.html

The basic point is, the epa is gonna start crashing on co2 which means another revamp for the auto industry and this may even hurt plug in hybrids which as we know use co2 for production and recharging.
Biofuels where are you?
I actually had high hopes for hydrogen back in the day, but not anymore.


anyone remember the ev1? :grin:
check this site for good pros and cons of all fuel alternatives
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/electric.html?detectflash=false&

[370 HEMI]

You want to see what is really going on?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMA6sszChwQ

The great global warming swindle. This explains everything!!:clap:

Brian

[hskr]

I'm not saying that humans don't contribute to some of the changes that are happening in the environment, but I don't think it's as much of a factor as it's being made out to be. ****, glaciers have been melting since the last ice age.

[Part Deux]

forget about the piddly amount of stuff our cars spew out, space shuttle and all the other rockets are far far more dangerous.

When 911 grounded all commercial flights, it gave weather researchers a fantastic opportunity to study the weather. Jets have a much bigger impact then was theorized.

[370 HEMI]

forget about the piddly amount of stuff our cars spew out, space shuttle and all the other rockets are far far more dangerous.

When 911 grounded all commercial flights, it gave weather researchers a fantastic opportunity to study the weather. Jets have a much bigger impact then was theorized.

Like the Great Global Warming Swindle has to say, 6.6 gigatonnes of CO2 from human activity, plants, animals and land mass processes 150 gigatonnes, and the oceans 300 gigatonnes. And we have to attack what our little 6.6 gigatonnes is doing and curtail our freedoms. Yea right!:rolleyes2:

Brian

[a14umbra]

The basic premise that CO2 is causing global warming is flawed. If you look closely at the CO2/global temp graph, you'll see that the CO2 consistently rose AFTER the temp went up. Why? Because as temperatures rise, the oceans release CO2 into the atmosphere.
But people like Al Gore like to show the graphs at a high enough level to keep you from seeing that.

People need to think for themselves.

[Part Deux]

People need to think for themselves.

Please put down the crack pipe, seriously, it's causing global warming.

[Here'sJohnny]

fart tax.....

[mnunes]

Don't get me started on methane!

[370 HEMI]

Get ready for VMTs!!

Brian

[wickedchargerrt]

Don't get me started on methane!

taco bell causes methane

forget about the piddly amount of stuff our cars spew out, space shuttle and all the other rockets are far far more dangerous.

When 911 grounded all commercial flights, it gave weather researchers a fantastic opportunity to study the weather. Jets have a much bigger impact then was theorized.

amen to that brother.
Cant remember where i heard this statistic but normal cars contribute to like 9% of the overall co2 output per day, overall transportation (planes, rail, boat, cars, 18 wheelers) contribute 32%.
Now with that and how strict they've been on the auto manufactures (enough to put some of them out of business) why the hell arent they going after the higher polluntant contributors?
Maybe cause they contribute more finances to election contributions? maybe? :mad:

[hemiitis]

Please put down the crack pipe, seriously, it's causing global warming.
Seriously, it's not... :driving:

[370 HEMI]

I forgot, some may not know VMTs.

Vehicle Miles Traveled. THEY give us the freedom to drive 12,000 miles per year and then every mile over that they charge us 1.00 as a carbon tax for emissions etc.

Bunch of crap!

Brian

[Steelborn1]

There is hope! Arizona State Congress just voted to overrule the Cap and Trade bill if it passes! Under the 10th Amendment they have that right. I just hope more states do the same.

[370 HEMI]

There is hope! Arizona State Congress just voted to overrule the Cap and Trade bill if it passes! Under the 10th Amendment they have that right. I just hope more states do the same.

Steelborn,

I sure hope that the other states enact similar legislation because...although it would help me in my business, it would be devastate the nations economy.

We don't need this and it isn't wanted either.:rolleyes2:

Brian